Brick Or Block...?

[Mumbo Jumbo]

Ive been talking to several " Thai " builders about which is the best way to go in building a house, to use the standard block or to use the small Red brick's..? no one can give me an awswer which would be the best to use, I think the price is about the same, for the block and small red brick..? can any one comment which would be the best to use or comment on their experience

Thanks.......

[astral]

Not sure on the price side,

but this is hot climate and the blocks have an airspace inside

which probably provides a little heat insulation.

As a general rule follow the local style of building, it done for a reason.

[RamdomChances]

I'd go for brick, they put them in log ways so they have an air gap as well. I recon they are better for heat insalation and stronger. The do workout a fair bit more expensive though. Buying costs are more, you use more cement and it takes longer so labour costs are higher.

[lopburi3]

Red brick covered with cement is the normal home wall here in Bangkok. Cement blocks are used for outbuildings and such but not normally for finished homes (except for under traditional Thai pole homes). The brick is much stronger and easier to finnish and you can hang things on it without the wall falling down.

[RamdomChances]

(except for under traditional Thai pole homes)

I've got a "Thai Pole" house but its got brick down stairs

you can hang things on it without the wall falling down

Which is always an advantage i feel

[thai_norman]

red bricks are the way to go, breeze block is used to build shacks and outhouses.

[Crossy]

Autoclaved concrete seems to be worth a look too, check out this thread:-

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32414

I think we will be using this on the south wall of the house, bit too expensive for all walls.

DC

[Ajarn]

The main advantage to the red bricks is that they are especially designed to be mortored to provide better sealing and 'sticking'. Cement blocks, by design, are not nearly as strong in terms of load bearing, so they shouldn't be stacked very high. Okay for small outbuildings and fences, but not load-bearing walls in houses, especially over one story. It also is much more difficult to cover with cement because of the big empty spaces in them to make them lighter

As for prices, the cement blocks here (Chiang Mai) average 1.5 - 2 baht each, the red brick 65-75 satang (3/4 of a baht) each

[Beachbunny]

Ive been talking to several " Thai " builders about which is the best way to go in building a house,  to use the standard block or to use the small Red brick's..? no one can give me an awswer which would be the best to use, I think the price is about the same, for the block and small red brick..? can any one comment which would be the best to use or comment on their experience

    Thanks.......

Contrary to someone wrote"the way they build here is done for a reason" the reason is Cheap! Check out the website www.coolthaihouse.com

The houses built the way they build here are always hot and not energy efficient. I live in one right now, it's miserable.

Six inch block walls are the miniumum I'd say with insulation in the cavities. double wall construction better. Six inch blocks are available about 100 km from Pattaya area are about 11 baht each, otherwise the only other place I know they have them is in SuraBuri, but I would imagine they do have them elsewhere. Used with a high quality 2 inch block with insulation between and your house is already cool and you save on the A/C baht. BUT, up to you if you want to stay cool and save money.

BeachBunny

[Beachbunny]

Ive been talking to several " Thai " builders about which is the best way to go in building a house,  to use the standard block or to use the small Red brick's..? no one can give me an awswer which would be the best to use, I think the price is about the same, for the block and small red brick..? can any one comment which would be the best to use or comment on their experience

     Thanks.......

Contrary to someone wrote"the way they build here is done for a reason" the reason is Cheap! Check out the website www.coolthaihouse.com

The houses built the way they build here are always hot and not energy efficient. I live in one right now, it's miserable.

Six inch block walls are the miniumum I'd say with insulation in the cavities. double wall construction better. Six inch blocks are available about 100 km from Pattaya area are about 11 baht each, otherwise the only other place I know they have them is in SuraBuri, but I would imagine they do have them elsewhere. Used with a high quality 2 inch block with insulation between and your house is already cool and you save on the A/C baht. BUT, up to you if you want to stay cool and save money.

BeachBunny

By the way, we built this way, and we are still under our budget of 2.5 mil baht.

[thai_norman]

beachbunny, on most houses here most of the heat is absorbed thru the roof into the house, the sun is at its hottest during the midday period, thats also when its directly overhead, also the loft areas are not big enough or vented enough to dissapate heat quickly, this is then transferred to your cieling, if you have low cielings this is then transferred to your rooms, there are many ways to insulate a house, but a lot of it comes down to how much your willing to spend, double glazing is a perfect example, a 3 bed bungalow would cost about 400,000baht to do, but if you done it in aluminum frames and single glazing it will cost about 150,000baht, whereas roof insulation is now extremely cheap..

[aletta]

Double wall with roof insulation and you're laughing.

[Beachbunny]

beachbunny, on most houses here most of the heat is absorbed thru the roof into the house, the sun is at its hottest during the midday period, thats also when its directly overhead, also the loft areas are not big enough or vented enough to dissapate heat quickly, this is then transferred to your cieling, if you have low cielings this is then transferred to your rooms, there are many ways to insulate a house, but a lot of it comes down to how much your willing to spend, double glazing is a perfect example, a 3 bed bungalow would cost about 400,000baht to do, but if you done it in aluminum frames and single glazing it will cost about 150,000baht, whereas roof insulation is now extremely cheap..

If you don't have adequate ventilation in the attic, I agree with you. However, we have high ceilings, adequate ventilation, insulated walls, & we've insulated the ceilings in part of the house, but even those that aren't are cool. Also, we brought our windows from the states, so that was an advantage too, but I'd still say the walls and adequate ventilation are major aspects.

BeachBunny

[Mumbo Jumbo]

Thanks to every one for the infomation, lot's to think about...

Mumbo....

[jayenram]

If you are building the standard Thai concrete framed house (columns and beams) the material used for the infill does not need to be loadbearing. Personally, I'd still go for double skin (50 mm gap) brick but not the smaller variety. The larger bricks may be double the price but they are more than twice the volume (about 1.2 times if my memory serves me correctly) and the labour laying costs will be much less.

[nev]

here in australia i am a bricklayer and would say the double brick with 50mm in the larger brick would be the best option as jayenram stated.

also a well insulated roof,also consider the aspect and design of the house.

when i move to thailand full time i want to build my own house i no i will have to contract thai labour,but does anyone no if i can do my own bricklaying would like to build the outside of the house in face brickwork rather than a rendered look,but have seen the thai bricklaying.lol.

as falang cannt work in thailand would building your own home be considered workin? cheers for any advice.

[Khutan]

Thats the main thing fo cost is how many Baht per square metre.

Jayenram, totally correct, the Columns every 3m take all the load, you shouldn't get walls that are load bearing.

[cdnvic]

Thats the main thing fo cost is how many Baht per square metre.

Jayenram, totally correct, the Columns every 3m take all the load, you shouldn't get walls that are load bearing.

And never depend on bricks if you take the possibility of a quake the least bit seriously. Bricks are absolutely useless under a lateral load. Even if they aren't structural, you have to think about where they will fall.

I've done seismic upgrades and I Live on a faultline so I'm paranoid, but the quakes in the region make me pause and think a bit. I'd go for all concrete.

As for doing things the local way, thats all well and good but remember Iran when nearly all the local structures failed in one city in the last big one.

Block is easiest to reinforce, and a breeze to level. Brick is hear impossible to reinforce. If you want the look, build a brick facade.

cv

[thai_norman]

I think you will find 99 percent of buildings in Thailand are done using concrete beam work with the bricks purely as infill, although they now make super blocks which are load bearing.

building here

super block

[chownah]

I think you will find 99 percent of buildings in Thailand are done using concrete beam work with the bricks purely as infill, although they now make super blocks which are load bearing.

building here

super block

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a quick look at the thaibuilding.blogspot site and think its pretty good but there is one piece of misinformation I noticed. The site states that Thai bricks are sunbaked...which is not correct. Sunbaked bricks will dissolve when they get wet and Thai bricks don't do this. Also I've seen them make bricks here and they fired them using rice hulls as the primary fuel. Admittedly this creates a very weak brick and even in Thailand this type of brick is considered of low quality.....but it is much better than sunbaked bricks like adobe. I do agree with the site in that Thai bricks are very soft compared to a good quality western product. The main thing to remember is that these bricks are never (as far as I can tell) used in load bearing walls. For those who might not know....'load bearing walls' must carry some of the weight of what is above them like the second floor or the roof. In the usual Thai building style concrete posts and beams are built to carry all of that weight and the actual walls are just like partitions....they keep the wind and dogs out. If you build a wall in a Thai type house all it has to do is not crack or fall down....of course if it also provides insulation then hooray!

[thai_norman]

most hot countries sun bake the bricks, from saudi to thailand, they aint fire baked or anything else, how much do you think they will spend on a 65 satang item? we are talking of the normal red bricks, not the baked bricks that are a little bit bigger cos these are hardly used..

[Tornado]

I build in block myself as do many builders here in Phuket (even some of the 5 star hotels are made out of block). Block isnt half the price, but is considerably lower and I usually build double block, which gives great width to your window sills and looks great.

You can also use "a rubber mat type sheet" that sits between the double block - it makes the house nearly sound proof.

not for everyone, but after its rendered, it looks magic.

Edited May 7, 2005 by Tornado

[chownah]

most hot countries sun bake the bricks, from saudi to thailand, they aint fire baked or anything else, how much do you think they will spend on a 65 satang item? we are talking of the normal red bricks, not the baked bricks that are a little bit bigger cos these are hardly used..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are saying that normal red bricks made in Thailand are not baked or fired then I disagree. Red bricks are made from mud which is sun dried and then "cooked" by heating it. If they are not dried first then the water in them will turn to steam and break them when it escapes...that's why they are sun dried first. If you take a block of mud and sun bake it...meaning just put it in the sun until its as hard as a rock....then the next time it gets wet it will turn back into mud...this is what happens in the rice fields every year. The ground gets sun baked until hard as a rock and then when the rains come it turns back into mud and is cultivated. Also...the mud I saw them using to make red bricks was not red, it was grey. When they sun dry the bricks they are still grey, not red. After the bricks are fired they turn red. That is one way to know that they are fired. Unfired clay bricks are called adobe and it is commonly used in very dry climates (Mexico comes to mind). Typically adobe buildings have large eaves to keep what little rain there is off of the walls....if rain gets on the walls it softens them and they erode away or sag...because its just hard mud. Actually they put some straw into it too which helps strengthen it.

Chownah

[Tornado]

here in australia i am a bricklayer and would say the double brick with 50mm in the larger brick would be the best option as jayenram stated.

also a well insulated roof,also consider the aspect and design of the house.

when i move to thailand full time i want to build my own house i no i will have to contract thai labour,but does anyone no if i can do my own bricklaying would like to build the outside of the house in face brickwork rather than a rendered look,but have seen the thai bricklaying.lol.

as falang cannt work in thailand would building your own home be considered workin? cheers for any advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You cannot do any work on your houses here unfortunately

I was once dobbed in by a neighbour for painting the downstairs to my house. Luckily no deportation

[thai_norman]

red bricks are made from clay not mud, then they are sun baked, if you bake a brick it then becomes strong, they do not bake the small bricks here, these are sun baked and therefore have no strength for load bearing, thai bricks are not load bearing end of story, we are talking thailand not iraq chownah....

[chownah]

red bricks are made from clay not mud, then they are sun baked, if you bake a brick it then becomes strong, they do not bake the small bricks here, these are sun baked and therefore have no strength for load bearing, thai bricks are not load bearing end of story, we are talking thailand not iraq chownah....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wet clay is mud. If you can tell me of a place where they make red bricks in Thailand by just sun drying clay blocks then I will gladly go and check it out and learn something new. I have actually seen cheap grade Thai red bricks made about 15 km from where I live. I actually bought some of them. They make straight ones and curved ones for lining hand dug wells....this is the old way. There aren't many places you can get these curved bricks anymore. I actually watched while a worker took grey mud and made a block in a mold. I actually saw the grey blocks drying in the sun. I actually saw them stacking these grey blocks in a structure and cover them with rice hulls. I've actually smelled the stink of the burning rice hulls as they baked the bricks and I've actually seen the red bricks being unloaded from the kiln structure. Now maybe there are places in Thailand where they can make red bricks without firing them but I've never seen or heard of it. I've made pottery and had aspirations of being professional at this but its too much work. In this endeavor I studied about clay and clay products and everything I learned indicated that if you don't fire clay it will just be clay and will get soft again when wetted. If you want to make a clay brick that wont soften you need to fire it. Low firing makes a soft brick. Higher grades must be fired at higher temperatures and you end up with a harder, stronger product.

When you used the phrase "end of story". To me this means you are telling me to shut up. Is this the message you wished to convey with this phrase?

Chownah

[chownah]

here in australia i am a bricklayer and would say the double brick with 50mm in the larger brick would be the best option as jayenram stated.

also a well insulated roof,also consider the aspect and design of the house.

when i move to thailand full time i want to build my own house i no i will have to contract thai labour,but does anyone no if i can do my own bricklaying would like to build the outside of the house in face brickwork rather than a rendered look,but have seen the thai bricklaying.lol.

as falang cannt work in thailand would building your own home be considered workin? cheers for any advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can work on your own house all you want in Thailand. The laws are concerned with being employed. As long as you don't accept money for your work you are free to do whatever. You can even work on you neighbor's house as long as you don't accept money.

[thai_norman]

here in australia i am a bricklayer and would say the double brick with 50mm in the larger brick would be the best option as jayenram stated.

also a well insulated roof,also consider the aspect and design of the house.

when i move to thailand full time i want to build my own house i no i will have to contract thai labour,but does anyone no if i can do my own bricklaying would like to build the outside of the house in face brickwork rather than a rendered look,but have seen the thai bricklaying.lol.

as falang cannt work in thailand would building your own home be considered workin? cheers for any advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can work on your own house all you want in Thailand. The laws are concerned with being employed. As long as you don't accept money for your work you are free to do whatever. You can even work on you neighbor's house as long as you don't accept money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i caN SEE YOU GETTING PPL ARRESTED WITH YOUR IDIOTOC POSTS, no you cannot work on your own house, also bricks are not baked. if they were they would be suitable for load bearing walls, and they aint, they are sun baked, thats it, end of story, in thai law you cant even water your own garden, becos if your a farang you can aford to pay a thai to water your garden, stoopid fok...

[chownah]

here in australia i am a bricklayer and would say the double brick with 50mm in the larger brick would be the best option as jayenram stated.

also a well insulated roof,also consider the aspect and design of the house.

when i move to thailand full time i want to build my own house i no i will have to contract thai labour,but does anyone no if i can do my own bricklaying would like to build the outside of the house in face brickwork rather than a rendered look,but have seen the thai bricklaying.lol.

as falang cannt work in thailand would building your own home be considered workin? cheers for any advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can work on your own house all you want in Thailand. The laws are concerned with being employed. As long as you don't accept money for your work you are free to do whatever. You can even work on you neighbor's house as long as you don't accept money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i caN SEE YOU GETTING PPL ARRESTED WITH YOUR IDIOTOC POSTS, no you cannot work on your own house, also bricks are not baked. if they were they would be suitable for load bearing walls, and they aint, they are sun baked, thats it, end of story, in thai law you cant even water your own garden, becos if your a farang you can aford to pay a thai to water your garden, stoopid fok...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha Ha Ha, I get it! You're joking!!! Thai bricks are only half baked!!!! I could get arrested for watering my garden!!! But I still want to know when you used the phrase "end of story", if you were telling me to shut up. Is this the message you wished to convey with this phrase? Also are you calling me a "stoopid fok..."?

Chownah

[thai_norman]

farangs can only do jobs that thais cant, for this they need a work permit, do u really think you can get a work permit to do the brick work on ur house? or even to water your garden??? im pretty sure you cant, 3 months ago i know of an american who was arrested for mowing his lawn, yep, thats a hard one to get a work permit for....