Pattaya Takeover By Russians

[andrewchevin]

Except of course if you decide to have a drink in a Russian ago go bar...that one one the beach road...then they turn into white Thais...I once had some white Russian dancer ask me to buy her a drink I said no then this big Russian bouncer came up and asked us to leave...I said when i finish my drink and truly it was a horrific 20 minutes whilst we finished our drinks...big Russian bouncers came out of everywhere all because i didn't want to buy some Russian whore a drink...they made me feel very uncomfortable...i didnt know what i was doing looking at fat white girls dancing in a bar in Thailand in the first place....welcome to Pattaya

[sojourner007]

I'm originally from Russia but migrated to a Western country more than 20 years ago just before the collapse of the USSR. I've travelled to Russia many times since then and still have a property there. At the same time I've been coming to Pattaya since 1991 and almost call it home now. I thought my take on the topic of this forum may be of value to others.

The first groups of Russian tourists appeared in Pattaya in the earlier 90s. They were mainly small traders who came to Thailand to buy cheap textiles to be sold back in Russia in public markets. Soon young single Russian women also started arriving here on a lookout for rich Western customers and long-term partners. With time Russians were getting wealthier, some by grabbing state assets in the privatization drive, others through criminal enterprise or by working abroad. The type of Russians holidaying here was changing too.Traders and poor ambitions young wenches were replaced by couples and families. As late as 2001-2002 I was still meeting many Russian chicks here who either came for short holidays taking a break from work at nightclubs in Korea and Japan, or directly from Russia in search of foreign husbands who would save them economic misery back at home. They were very much interested in Western guys even of mature age. But as the Western capital poured into Russia rising asset prices and salaries there the girls no longer needed to travel outside their homeland, to speak foreign languages, and to adapt to foreign culture, in order to find a financially secure partner. Consequently in Pattaya numerous girls from Russia available short time and long time were replaced by girls from less fortunate parts of the former USSR, such as Uzbekistan. Real Russian girls have quickly put their 'sinful' past behind them and started looking at aging Western men in Pattaya with righteous contempt.

As oil prices were shot up during 2004-2008 so were the fortunes of Russian populace who started flooding Pattaya during high seasons. I do not think that the tourism statistics from TOT quoted by other members of this forum is not to be trusted. Nowdays the Thailand immigration control is computerized and efficient and the statistics by nationality is easy to compile. The most specific set of numbers from TOT titled "Guest Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments" (http://www.tourism.go.th/2009/en/statistic/tourism.php?cid=26) provides a number of tourists of every nationality in Pattaya. Last time I checked them Russians represented about a third of all tourists in Pattaya during 2008 high season. This high season the share of Russians looks more like 40-50% thanks to fewer Western tourists. The Russian economy is still very much cash based and the stock market investments are not common so most ordinary Russians were not affected by the recent financial crisis. Their tourist numbers dropped last year mainly due to the fear that the world economy was about to collapse and the Thai airport troubles. I think that the Russian standards of living are higher than what the official GDP stat indicates. The share of Russian grey economy could be as high as 50-70% of the official one and if you adjust for that the Russia's GDP per capita will not be that much below the EU figure. In addition Russians are asset-rich thanks to the success of the past socialist policy that provided every family with housing and to the recent real estate boom there. I've read recently that about 5000 Russians live permanently in Pattaya and about 15000 own or rent a property here and now they are even building a Russian church in the town. Most Russian tourists nowadays are indeed well off. A good friend of mine works at the Sheraton Resort on Pratumnak Hill and he told me that from Christmas to the end of January when room prices are at the highest most of the hotel guests are Russians. They also tend to stay at the hotel longer than other nationalities: for a month on average. The hotel even employs a Russian receptionist to cater for them. The Royal Cliff Resort is packed with Russians in high season and provides them with Orthodox church service.

Among educated city-dwelling Russians Pattaya has always had a reputation as a resort for 'racketeers'. Since late nineties my Russian friends in Moscow, who all are university graduates, preferred to stay in Phuket or Samui when holidaying in Thailand. The Russian tourists here today are still the same kind as 10 years ago: either 'proletariat' or mafia type. Most of them come from provincial areas of Ural, Siberia, and the Far East, and not from the European part of Russia. This is reflected in their appearance and manners.

A question of how most Russian tourists come to Pattaya was raised in this forum. I believe that most of them now arrive in Thailand through the Suvanabhumi airport.During high season however many do fly directly to Utapao. The airport's website lists weekly all arriving flights and one can see that most of them are from places like Almaty, Kazakhstan (another fortunate part of the former USSR) or Ekaterinaburg in the Urals.

Another aspect of this forum was about how Russians behave in Pattaya. Bullying is very much a part of the Russian social culture. It is also still very much a macho culture especially in the culturally backward Eastern and Asian parts of the country. Russians see only two categories of men, strong ones and weak ones. 'Strong' means physically and psychologically domineering. Naturally they all try to be in the first category. Being polite and sensitive to needs of others is considered a weakness. That is why you will rarely see a Russian giving way on a narrow path to a pedestrian walking in the opposite direction, or holding a door for someone behind. To some extent Russian women share the same philosophy. You will rarely see Russians thanking staff in restaurants or hotels. A lot of this also comes from the fact Russians in Pattaya made they money quickly through various opportunistic semi-legal business schemes and not by saving from wages for years in employment. They feel superior to all those who are employed in common jobs. There a lot of racism in the insular Russian culture. Ordinary folks consider non-Caucasian races, especially those with colored skin, as inferior. This is one of the reasons why many Russians look at Western males in Pattaya walking with their Thai girlfriends with contempt as at losers who failed to qualify for a Caucasian female.

Russians also tend to reject the idea of paying for sex and there is a well known Russian joke that it was Russians who invented love in order to avoid paying money for sex. I might add to this a popular belief among Russians that their females are the most beautiful in the world. I suspect Western males' infatuation with Russian 'brides' (who indeed became widely available to foreigners during the first decade of hardships after disintegration of the Soviet Union) and a love affair of the international fashion industry with Russian models (who were much cheaper to hire than Western ones) have a lot to do with this. This fed the Russian superiority complex further. The current Russian government actively encourages this attitude through public media and most Russians nowadays are rather more chauvinistic than 10-20 years ago. The cold war attitude is still deeply ingrained in the Russian psychic and most Russians look at the West as a competitor, or even an enemy, in military, economic and cultural global arenas. So if a Western tourist may not think much about the Russian restaurant 'Our Russia' on the top floor of the new Central Pattaya beach shopping centre, to Russians in symbolizes another small victory in Russian expansion in the world. I'm amazed how Russians have changed since 20 years ago. Then most of us in the USSR looked at Westerners and Western culture as superior in every respect. Most Russians are cynical characters and all the Western calls for international co-operation and partnership does not cut much ice with them.

Unfortunately Russians do not hold much respect for old age in their country and as most of the Russians here are younger than the average Pattaya Western tourist or resident they feel again winners. This is because they think they have achieved the same level of living standards as the old Westerners around them but much earlier in life.

Decades of communism and consumer goods shortage have largely rooted ideas of a dress style in Russian population as everyone wore mostly the same drab style of clothes. So even if Russians got money now their fashion sense and taste for outfits stuck somewhere back in the 70s. Ridiculous hats and caps and clashing colours that Russian tourists wear here never stop amusing my Thai girlfriend. She can't help smiling whenever she sees those ladies wearing high heels and extravagant floating dresses and walking along the beach in Pattaya in the middle of a hot day. Russian guys wearing beach shorts together with socks and pointed office shoes cause the same reaction. Despite the funny dress styles, rude behaviour, and arrogance of Russian tourists my experience indicates that Thais actually like them just as much as other farang nationalities. Perhaps it is that to Thais Russians are simply another type of eccentric farang. In my experience Thais are much more annoyed by Indian tourists than Russian ones.

Now about the mismatch of beautiful Russian girls and their burly, poorly dressed boyfriends. My mother used to say that women should be beautiful and men ugly. This is a typical belief among Russians that it is women who must look fashionable, dress well, and look after themselves. Men are not supposed to worry about style of their clothes or haircut. The ideal man in Russian woman's eyes is heavy built, wide-shouldered, with a big head and a booming voice. His hygiene is not that important and heavy body odours are not frowned upon.

In relation to the chances of the average Western mature age guy in Pattaya bedding a beautiful and young Russian female tourist I think that you have to have a fortune of millions and generosity to spend a lot of it to compete with Russian guys. My Sheraton friend told me of a typical Russian unequal age couple staying at the hotel for some time last year. He was around 60 and ordinary in look. She was a beautiful teenage model. They stayed at the most expensive villa at the resort priced at 40,000 baht per night. If you can afford this then you may have a chance. And of course if you don't speak Russian there would be an extra price to pay for the girl's inconvenience. One more thing. Russians generally are not known for their smiles. So if even if you do have what it takes to get a Russian girl who is much younger than you don't expect the same friendliness or warmth as you get from a Thai girl in a similar situation. Russian females are not used to servitude and are not used to hiding their emotions. That is why Uzbek girls of Russian background working in Pattaya mainly go with Indian and Middle Eastern customers as those do not expect their companion for the night to smile to them or show any affection.

And finally on the subject of the overall effect of the Russian tide on Pattaya. I think the view that this benefits Pattaya is short-sighted. Higher number of tourists and expats of any nationality here leads to increased competition for services, meaning less available attractive girls in bars, overloaded mini buses, more traffic jams, longer supermarket checkout queues, less rental property availability, etc. It also means higher prices on all these services. The only 'benefit' I see is that property prices go up faster. But why would you want Pattaya to turn into London in terms of prices? Your house may be worth much more thanks to Russians but you are no longer living in a paradise small resort with fresh air, easy traffic, and plenty of inexpensive young attractive friendly girls around. And I don't think that we feel any better when we are out with our Thai girlfriends and we see loads of more beautiful young Russian females looking down at us from passing TEZ (popular Russian tour operator here) tour buses and thinking 'miserable old farts'.

[Jimmyd]

That's the most well thought out and informative post I've seen on Thai Visa in a long time. Thanks for the insight.

[Jingthing]

That's the most well thought out and informative post I've seen on Thai Visa in a long time. Thanks for the insight.

Yeah, that was a fantastic post and has the ring of truth to it. We are very lucky to get that informed perspective here. I welcome everyone to join me in giving sojourner007 FIVE STARS.

BTW, is "Our Russia" restaurant any good?

I want to bring up another aspect of this that sojourner007 didn't address. It is my strong feeling that these provincial Russians sojourner007 speaks of are for the most part virulently homophobic. If you think they give the evil eye to an old white fart with Thai girl in tow (and they do), consider their reaction to an old white fart with Thai boy in tow. Not to mention the way they mock kathoeys. I have seen pointing, whistling, laughing, derision OPENLY like from no other nationality. Even from those from the Middle East who may be from countries where the death penalty is in effect for such acts. I am afraid this kind of social difference between tourist groups is going to be the seed of some unpleasant future events.

A while back I saw a good film about Russian prison culture (and tattoos). In Russian prison, gay men are subject to being treated as dogs and offensive marking tattoos are put on their FACE. That means they can never have a normal life even if they get out of prison. (Yes I know gays have it rough in prisons everywhere, but tattoos on the FACE is another level.) I don't know how much that prison film reflects on the wider culture, and I know Moscow etc. are swinging, but I do know about some of the loutish behavior I have seen by some Russians here in Pattaya.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[sharecropper]

Agreed. A superb post. Thanks.

[craigt3365]

Excellent post! Thanks for taking the time. Having been in many of the countries you mentioned, including Moscow and St. Petersburg, I can see where you are coming from. In Moscow, you can forget finding a young, attractive girl unless you have BIG bucks. Heck, I couldn't even get into the bars they were at as I wasn't willing to spend over $500 in one night, just for drinks...and just for me!! But then again, not much different than NYC, Miami, etc.

Again, excellent info.

[beginner]

Thank you SOUJOURNER007 for taking the time to write such an interesting and informative post.

I learned a lot about our new Russian tourist friends.

A couple of comments.

You say "Uzbek girls of Russian background working in Pattaya mainly go with Indian and Middle Eastern customers as those do not expect their companion for the night to smile to them or show any affection."

I was told that part of the attraction of Uzbek girls is that they are mainly Moslem and therefore appeal to fellow Moslems.

The Russian operated Bars on Walking Street have a reputation of operating as 'clip joints' and fleecing their customers at every opportunity. The expansion of their bars seems to suggest that the technique is successful and profitable. The Good Old Days of a fair reward for a fair service and a little fake Girlfriend Experience seem to be coming to an end.

Enjoy it whilst we can.

[raro]

an excellent post indeed! Hope we will hear more from you and welcome on board!

[Phatcharanan]

Good post indeed. But only one persons perspective.

Russian nationals who live in different parts of the worlds largest country may well have other views.

I think its a 'given' that as the world becomes smaller, in terms of instant communication, greater knowledge of the world in general, cheaper travel...............there will always be young, beautiful women who are available to the younger, better informed, wealthier tourists........regardless of nationality.

The days of Pattaya being the sole playground of the increasingley bemused and desperate 'old' ex-pats is truly over.

Lets face it, it is getting increasingley ridiculous to see 60 something guys with the 'young' ladies. It goes against all natural laws.

[Jingthing]

Lets face it, it is getting increasingley ridiculous to see 60 something guys with the 'young' ladies. It goes against all natural laws.

Very funny. It's always been ridiculous and it will always be with us. It will stay with Pattaya as well, as a part of the total picture.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[NanLaew]

Lets face it, it is getting increasingley ridiculous to see 60 something guys with the 'young' ladies. It goes against all natural laws.

I reckon a citation is needed to justify this claim about law-breaking.

[Jingthing]

Lets face it, it is getting increasingley ridiculous to see 60 something guys with the 'young' ladies. It goes against all natural laws.

I reckon a citation is needed to justify this claim about law-breaking.

If it makes your eyes hurt, you can look away or wear really dark sunnies.

[Tolley]

Good post from Soujourner but at the end of the day it just confirms that Pattaya attracts the bottom feeders from every country.

No real revelation there.

Personally I don't really care one way or the other how many Russians are in Pattaya or any other nationality for that matter as long as i enjoy myself.

[raro]

Good post from Soujourner but at the end of the day it just confirms that Pattaya attracts the bottom feeders from every country.

read it again...someone who can cough up 40,000 a day for the hotel room is not a bottom feeder in my books...

I think the overall perception of Pattaya is wrong. Indeed, you have a lot of "proletariat" coming here - and this applies to any nationality I could think of at the moment. But you have also quite a posh clientele around here. There are plenty of upmarket hotels in Pattaya and the number is permanently increasing. Same applies to High-end condos and properties on the dark side. Someone must have the dosh to pay for all this.

The problem is rather the visibility. You see the "proletariat" hanging out in the beer bars, on Walking Street, in the shopping malls. Those with money you won't see there and if you do, then they would also wear shorts and socks with sandals to blend in...

[bonobo]

Good post from Soujourner but at the end of the day it just confirms that Pattaya attracts the bottom feeders from every country.

read it again...someone who can cough up 40,000 a day for the hotel room is not a bottom feeder in my books...

I think the overall perception of Pattaya is wrong. Indeed, you have a lot of "proletariat" coming here - and this applies to any nationality I could think of at the moment. But you have also quite a posh clientele around here. There are plenty of upmarket hotels in Pattaya and the number is permanently increasing. Same applies to High-end condos and properties on the dark side. Someone must have the dosh to pay for all this.

The problem is rather the visibility. You see the "proletariat" hanging out in the beer bars, on Walking Street, in the shopping malls. Those with money you won't see there and if you do, then they would also wear shorts and socks with sandals to blend in...

I was in town for a jetski tournament once and stayed at the Royal Cliffs.  Half of the Russian Davis Cup team was there enjoying their recent win along with a huge entourage of New Russian wealth.  Despite the tendency for Russian men to wear track suits for most occasions, it was pretty obvious that their wealth and "star power" were more than for most of the rest of the guests there.  While I only knew the tennis players, my Thai guest was able to point out a handful of international super-models in the crowd of Russians.

[Jingthing]

If they have so much money, why do they come here? Its a dirty town with ugly beaches lined with mostly unattractive past their prime prostitutes. Why not Ibiza, etc.? Its not for the food either, I don't think, as I haven't noticed many Russians going for Thai food. If they enjoy "taking it over" why pick a place where the natural beauty is already mostly ruined?

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[Tolley]

Good post from Soujourner but at the end of the day it just confirms that Pattaya attracts the bottom feeders from every country.

read it again...someone who can cough up 40,000 a day for the hotel room is not a bottom feeder in my books...

I think the overall perception of Pattaya is wrong. Indeed, you have a lot of "proletariat" coming here - and this applies to any nationality I could think of at the moment. But you have also quite a posh clientele around here. There are plenty of upmarket hotels in Pattaya and the number is permanently increasing. Same applies to High-end condos and properties on the dark side. Someone must have the dosh to pay for all this.

The problem is rather the visibility. You see the "proletariat" hanging out in the beer bars, on Walking Street, in the shopping malls. Those with money you won't see there and if you do, then they would also wear shorts and socks with sandals to blend in...

You must have missed this part of his post

"Among educated city-dwelling Russians Pattaya has always had a reputation as a resort for 'racketeers'. Since late nineties my Russian friends in Moscow, who all are university graduates, preferred to stay in Phuket or Samui when holidaying in Thailand. The Russian tourists here today are still the same kind as 10 years ago: either 'proletariat' or mafia type. Most of them come from provincial areas of Ural, Siberia, and the Far East, and not from the European part of Russia. This is reflected in their appearance and manners"

And BTW money doesn't necesarily mean class or education bottom feeders can have plenty of money.

[maccaroni man]

Good post from Soujourner but at the end of the day it just confirms that Pattaya attracts the bottom feeders from every country.

read it again...someone who can cough up 40,000 a day for the hotel room is not a bottom feeder in my books...

I think the overall perception of Pattaya is wrong. Indeed, you have a lot of "proletariat" coming here - and this applies to any nationality I could think of at the moment. But you have also quite a posh clientele around here. There are plenty of upmarket hotels in Pattaya and the number is permanently increasing. Same applies to High-end condos and properties on the dark side. Someone must have the dosh to pay for all this.

The problem is rather the visibility. You see the "proletariat" hanging out in the beer bars, on Walking Street, in the shopping malls. Those with money you won't see there and if you do, then they would also wear shorts and socks with sandals to blend in...

You must have missed this part of his post

"Among educated city-dwelling Russians Pattaya has always had a reputation as a resort for 'racketeers'. Since late nineties my Russian friends in Moscow, who all are university graduates, preferred to stay in Phuket or Samui when holidaying in Thailand. The Russian tourists here today are still the same kind as 10 years ago: either 'proletariat' or mafia type. Most of them come from provincial areas of Ural, Siberia, and the Far East, and not from the European part of Russia. This is reflected in their appearance and manners"

And BTW money doesn't necesarily mean class or education bottom feeders can have plenty of money.

the centara has had a large number of Russians during this high season and they have been polite, pleasant and the women have been very fit less than 10% body fat and a great addition to the beach scene.

[sutyot]

I would also rather be here than in Russia.

Edited January 15, 2010 by sutyot

[bonobo]

I would also rather be here than in Russia.

You've got that right!  Spend a winter in Ekaterinburg and any place in Thailand would be heaven!  

[pgt99]

I have found them to be inpolite, rude, no manners. Should have kept the iron curtain up. But those women, ehhhhh!

[BusyBee123]

OP writes about the Russians:

"how well turned-out and polite they are in general"

you must be joking?!

They are impolite, uncouth, treating other nationalities as invisible and inferior.

Most of the russians are cheaply attired and ask the Thai's what they think about them and most will say they dislike them for their unpleasant manners, impoliteness and meanness.

Sounds just like us Brits then, minus the naked torsos and stupid propensity for fighting when drunk.

yep just like you not brits in general dont tar me with your filthy scum brush

[NanLaew]

If they have so much money, why do they come here? Its a dirty town with ugly beaches lined with mostly unattractive past their prime prostitutes. Why not Ibiza, etc.? Its not for the food either, I don't think, as I haven't noticed many Russians going for Thai food. If they enjoy "taking it over" why pick a place where the natural beauty is already mostly ruined?

You are looking at Pattaya through your eyes, not theirs.

Maybe it's economics, ie. nearest 'beach resort' that has an established Russian presence? As you point out, they stick to their own cuisine mostly so more exotic and 'natural' destinations don't appeal to the average Russian holidaymaker. I think eco-tourism is lost on the majority of them and adventure tourism is a relatively new, western affectation. They like to be around fellow countrymen and I don't think that there's many other international destinations that can boast a 'resident' Russian community like Pattaya.

Your comment on "beaches lined with unattractive past their prime prostitutes" is neither nice, factual nor relevant. The Sojourner has already explained why the Russians aren't interested in p4p. "This is one of the reasons why many Russians look at Western males in Pattaya walking with their Thai girlfriends with contempt as at losers who failed to qualify for a Caucasian female."

[Doc50]

I find the Russians loud, overbearing, impolite and boorish.

It is all new money, manners will come much later in their developement.

Some of the women are hot, best I can say for them.

Doc

[Heng]

Mixed bag, but the families I've gotten to know seem like decent folks. At the very least the fact that so many come as families likely means less whinging down the road after getting shafted for land/house/car/etc. by a local "cashier in a restaurant."

[russianrobert]

OP writes about the Russians:

"how well turned-out and polite they are in general"

you must be joking?!

They are impolite, uncouth, treating other nationalities as invisible and inferior.

Most of the russians are cheaply attired and ask the Thai's what they think about them and most will say they dislike them for their unpleasant manners, impoliteness and meanness.

I've been brushing with Russians over the past several years in Pattaya and I'll have to agree with what you've said here. I've never seen an ounce of common courtesy from any of them and if you don't stand your ground they'll literally shove you out of the way. In the markets they push past my short gf like she's invisible.

I lived and worked in Russia for 7 years. Even speak the language. You are not far wrong with that assesment.

However, when you get to know them they are friendly and fun loving.

At first they seem cold and rude, It's just a cultural thing.

[russianrobert]

If they have so much money, why do they come here? Its a dirty town with ugly beaches lined with mostly unattractive past their prime prostitutes. Why not Ibiza, etc.? Its not for the food either, I don't think, as I haven't noticed many Russians going for Thai food. If they enjoy "taking it over" why pick a place where the natural beauty is already mostly ruined?

Rich Russians don't generally visit Pattaya. There are cheap package tours organised from cities all over Russia. By western standards these are very cheap. Also, Pattaya is advertised and perceived in Russia as a family destination.

Pattaya is cheap compared to Ibiza these days and the weather is better, especialy in the winter.

Another issue for Russians is visas. Most countries wont issue to them without at best a lengthy process. Thailand, Egypt and Turkey are notable exceptions. All have huge tourism business with Russia.

[TheJoker12]

Funny thread considering what the English in Pattaya are like.

[NanLaew]

Another issue for Russians is visas. Most countries wont issue to them without at best a lengthy process. Thailand, Egypt and Turkey are notable exceptions. All have huge tourism business with Russia.

A very good point! I had a Russian vessel on contract in the Gulf of Thailand a few years back and they made their crew changes and supply runs through Vung Tau in Vietnam because the visa situation was 'easier' there.

[NanLaew]

Funny thread considering what the English in Pattaya are like.

My goodness! With some people asserting here that all the local women are all over-the-hill hookers and your inference that the punters are all drunken Brits, maybe people will get completely the wrong impression about Pattaya!!!