More Tuk-tuk Trouble In Phuket

[ManInSurat]

CONFESSES!? Really? Silly word to put in the headline. Not like the man had much of an option from where I see it.

This is what happens when you stand up for yourself in the face of the rip-off merchants in LOS. You get fined for the trouble.

I despair sometimes, I really do.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who condoned the driver's actions are now going to be saying "well he paid his fine - that says everything". I'm just preempting this. He had a flight to catch and the fees incurred by fighting this fine and extending his trip would have been ridiculous. As much as I would have hated being in the same situation I would have to admit I would have paid it too.

An expensive and painful lesson to learn for the man all in all.

UPDATE

Canadian confesses, pays fine at Phuket Court

PHUKET: Canadian tourist Ivan Bob Anwar, who was involved in a punch-up with a Patong tuk-tuk driver earlier in the week, has been ordered to pay a 1,000 baht fine after confessing to assault charges.

Mr Anwar, 51, paid the fine at Phuket Provincial Court earlier today after pleading guilty to charges of assault against tuk-tuk driver Tassanarit Damthong, 30.

The charges against Mr Anwar followed similar charges filed by the Canadian against Mr Tassanarit on Tuesday, the day the altercation took place.

Mr Tassanarit's preliminary hearing took place yesterday at Phuket Provincial Court, where he was granted bail.

He will have to appear in court at a later date to face his assault charges.

As for Mr Anwar, he paid his fine and got his passport back from police this morning.

His case was fast-tracked through the court so he could return home and not have to extend his trip.

At the time of writing, he was expected to fly out of Phuket this evening bound for Bangkok, intending to catch his connecting flight to Tokyo.

Mr Anwar has for years worked in Japan as an English teacher.

-- Phuket Gazette 2010-01-07

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Edited January 7, 2010 by ManInSurat

[dttk0009]

@dttk0009

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings." - Helen Keller.

It's not that I'm apathetic, but if you're going to enrage yourself every time you find out this kind of thing goes on you're going to have a hel_l of a time in this country unless you turn a blind eye or decide to not let it bother you.

If these things really are to change then the respective countries need to intervene and say 'this can't go on'. As long as they don't you are game here with no repercussion and it can happen to anyone.

Regarding this case, it is so obvious that it is no longer about about actual charges, but saving face for the Thais involved. To turn it around now they're forcing him to confess to assault charges to victimize that tuk-tuk driver. This makes the Police look like heroes to the locals and the tuk-tuk driver like a brave survivor.

[Jingthing]

Anyone who knows anything about the justice system here knows he had no choice but to sign that confession. Don't think for a minute that means he was actually guilty. He sure got TAKEN for a ride in Phuket, that's for sure. A sickening display all around.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[Me&MrsJones]

People

I have been living in Thailand for around 18 months now near Nakhon Sawan and am married to a Thai lady. You will, I am sure, notice that this is my first post although I have been a member of TV for some time. I read various news clippings every day on this site and I have to say, I am constantly amazed by the attitude of the majority of posters here. When one goes to another country to live, surely one should be expected to abide by the laws and customs of that country. In Thailand, when one negotiates a price for anything, one should honour that agreement and pay up. Being ripped off is all in the eye of the beholder, no? Maybe one should ask oneself, "how much would it have cost in my own country"? Also maybe people would do well to remember why they come to Thailand in the first place.......I would expect high on the list would be that the cost of living is far less than ones country of origin. 150Bt is about 3 pounds in the UK and you can't even get 10 cigarettes for that in fact you'd be lucky to be able to buy a pint for 3 quid! Perspective.....a good word, maybe this should be cosidered before posting. In my humble opinion, if one can't take the heat one should remove oneself from the kitchen and stop running down the people who, in my limited experience, are the most friendly, helpful and genuine that I have come across. This is a predominantly poor country, people need to make a living where the opportunity arises. I work in the oil industry and as a result have travelled the world extensively and believe me, there are FAR worse places and people out there. I do not condone violence but I too have seen how abusive certain elements of the farang population can be. There's no need for it, if you treat the people with the same respect you expect them to treat you with, there is no better place in the world to visit/live. Only my opinion of course but I like to think of myself as reasonable and objective. Chill and enjoy!!!

You make a few very good points here for a relatively inexperienced expat of Thailand, but 270 people have posted on this topic already and the majority of the posts are negative for a reason - because they are correct to be negative. You do concede that you have only been here 18 months, so i guess you are yet to be fully tested in this country in terms of duration and durability, having to go through the trenches everyday and grabbing your ankles.

Everyone who moved to Thailand loved it when they first arrived, just like you, and they had only a few murmurs of discontent after a year or 2 (at best). After you've been here nearly a decade you become tired of the negativity - not from Thai Visa members' posts - from many angles of life here. Why? Because there are many negative thing here (there are postive things too) and the longer you live here the more you lift the "veil of novelty" from your eyes and get to look beneath the veneer. Learning the language properly will assist with this, but even if you don't learn it you will get a flavour of the real way of life here - including all the ups and downs. When you live a country you get into it, lock, stock and barrel, right? Some members on here have 10s of thousands of posts to their name and have a right to comment and be negative if they so choose. It's called experience. I've been here 8 years. Some of the poster here have been here 2 or 3 times longer than me, which means 10 or wenty times longer than you. The negative comments are justified and something you should be latching on to, because if you do, you'll see the pitfalls when they come your way - and you'll be able to aviod them.

Anyway, you tell me what's so positive about the ever increasing number of attacks on foreigners perpetrated by tuk-tuk drivers. Violence is not the solution, regardless of who was trying to cheat who. You know, some of these victims are or freinds. Victims may one day be your friends in the future.

You quite naively say "how much would it have cost in my own country"? Sorry to tell you, but even if it cost me 1000 baht in my country it does not mean that i should allow myself to be cheated in any other country. What you are effectively saying is that we should all decide to just consider ourselves lucky that we are not paying Western prices here in Thailand? I bet you a penny-to-a-pound that many expats here are not happy about having to pay inflated prices every time they put their hand in their pocket wherever they go...because they are foreign. And you think we should be considering ourselves fortunate and just pay up? Am i reading that correctly?

Many expats here are not earning Western level incomes, they are not here on holiday to splash the cash - the majority are working as teachers. Some teachers earn just enough to get by, so why should they think about "how much would it cost in my own country"? We don't live in "my own country". By your logic ,Thai's in UK should barter and haggle for the love of Buddha to get the price of a taxi ride knocked down - because they would be thinking about "how much would it have cost in my own country". What nonsense!

Finally, you advice certain posters to use "Perspective.....a good word, maybe this should be cosidered before posting", you say. Pot-Kettle-Black! You need to start taking your own advice.

I know it's your first post and you are very well entitled to your opinion, but what a stinker! Best of luck with your next post!

Oh and best of luck hanging on to your money mate, coz to me it sounds like you are going to need the luck of the Irish.

Points noted but if it's so bad <deleted> do you want to live here for? If you don't like it, GO HOME, does that not make sense? Again......not rocket science.

Dear chap, no it's not "Rocket Science". It's "choice". It's "opinion"!

There is good and bad about living here. There are things i like and things i don’t like about Thailand. I'm not trying to solve the ills of Thailand. Who would? You can't change 1000s of years of attitude of a nation. But "Going home" just because problems don't sit well with oneself is not the way forward in life, my sage! Problems exist in every walk of life (that includes Nakon Sawan where you live. I know the place pretty well) no matter where you are located. If you "go home" every time the chips are down you'll only end up walking the earth forever. The reason we vent our opinions about the good and bad of living Thailand is because these problems need to be shared and one needs to seek opinions of others in order to get a clearer and unbiased opinion of the matter at hand.

Not that you should have known, i AM "going home" for a number of reasons. Reasons which do not belong in this thread - but PARTLY because of the locals' deteriorating attitudes towards foreigners here. That’s something you cannot comment on, so don't even try, you have only been here 18 months.

Some people who live and work here don't care about the state of this country and the way foreigners are being poorly treated in an ever increasing way. They don't care about law, society, politics, economics, language or culture. They also don't care about themselves and their reputation as foreigners; they don't stand up for themselves (and by default - other foreigners).

Those are the people who should go home. Why? Because they simply won't stand up for themselves, their own opinions and beliefs. They get walked over in the workplace, in the street, in the taxi, in the bar......and this propagates, permeates and manifests itself when the next foreigner comes along and gets taken for a prick.

It's people like us, who care and fight and discuss and voice our discontent that make people like you have an better ride in this country in the future. When we stand up and be counted, we do so for ourselves and for newbies coming in. If we just roll over, we'll be the first victim, and then you'll be the next victim because WE rolled over before you. It's about standing up for oneself and having some fight in your belly! To "go home" just like a pussy is not what real men are made of. We may eventually all "go home”, but we'll go out swinging and later in life i'll be better prepared to face similar problems.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not on a crusade. But in one sentence: - Where would we be if the troops "went home" from Normandy just because they "didn't like it"?

[Jingthing]

How about this idea? Make the tuk tuk mafia illegal. Have the province take over all the existing tuk tuks. Train and hire TOURISM AMBASSADOR DRIVERS complete with white gloves, clean fashionable uniforms, and complementary cold beverages. Make the tuk tuk service FREE. Make the drivers government workers. Pay for the service with an increased hotel tax. Ban all past Phuket drivers from eligibility for the jobs. Instead hire lovely polite young men and women, perhaps even reforming some prostitutes (who can be very polite people). Also, no more tuk tuk mafia territory turf wars. For the sake of EFFICIENCY the new tuk tuks are never restricted where they can pick up passengers. They take to Hotel A, they can pick up at Hotel A, they don't have to run back to their mafia stand for the next customer. Such a radical move would transform a huge negative into a huge positive. The tuk tuks instead of being a curse would become a tourist attraction.

Make a mafia illegal, you must forget you are in Thailand

Take my idea as a sort of utopian satire.

[ManInSurat]

@dttk0009

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings." - Helen Keller.

It's not that I'm apathetic, but if you're going to enrage yourself every time you find out this kind of thing goes on you're going to have a hel_l of a time in this country unless you turn a blind eye or decide to not let it bother you.

If these things really are to change then the respective countries need to intervene and say 'this can't go on'. As long as they don't you are game here with no repercussion and it can happen to anyone.

Regarding this case, it is so obvious that it is no longer about about actual charges, but saving face for the Thais involved. To turn it around now they're forcing him to confess to assault charges to victimize that tuk-tuk driver. This makes the Police look like heroes to the locals and the tuk-tuk driver like a brave survivor.

I'm not enraged. Just I find it hard to be apathetic in the face of things like this happening. I've been here for a while and understand the cultural need for the Thais to not lose face, but in doing so they project such a bad image of themselves and their country to the hands that feed them. This does bother me.

Yes, I know its endemic and inherent and will never change. It's just sad that this is the case.

I'm not good a turning a blind eye, but I've never been personally presented with an incident like this in 5 years or so, I guess I'm lucky.

Edited January 7, 2010 by ManInSurat

[KBAA]

"standard fee 150 baht" for a one minute ride. who set the "standard fee", tuk tuk owners, drivers or the governors office?

Why 150 Bath for 500 M ??? When metered Taxi´s in Bangkok drive 2 KM for 35 Bath and Metered Taxi´s in Phuket do it for 50 Bath !

Why do it have to be legal to cheat tourists that not know how to get around ? !

Help get the Tuk Tuk`s banned one time for all, join the Facebook group "Ban Tuk Tuk´s on Phuket" and invite all your friends !

I had been travelling around the world on business, and it is not very funny to be cheated because you are new a place etc. The Phuket so called "local" Tuk Tuk´s drivers should help them instead ! Now they scare all off !

[dttk0009]

@dttk0009

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings." - Helen Keller.

It's not that I'm apathetic, but if you're going to enrage yourself every time you find out this kind of thing goes on you're going to have a hel_l of a time in this country unless you turn a blind eye or decide to not let it bother you.

If these things really are to change then the respective countries need to intervene and say 'this can't go on'. As long as they don't you are game here with no repercussion and it can happen to anyone.

Regarding this case, it is so obvious that it is no longer about about actual charges, but saving face for the Thais involved. To turn it around now they're forcing him to confess to assault charges to victimize that tuk-tuk driver. This makes the Police look like heroes to the locals and the tuk-tuk driver like a brave survivor.

I'm not enraged. Just I find it hard to be apathetic in the face of things like this happening. I've been here for a while and understand the cultural need for the Thais to not lose face, but in doing so they project such a bad image of themselves and their country to the hands that feed them. This does bother me.

Yes, I know its endemic and inherent and will never change. It's just sad that this is the case.

I'm not good a turning a blind eye, but I've never been personally presented with an incident like this in 5 years or so, I guess I'm lucky.

I dunno, it's not worth the trouble. People here snap so incredibly fast and are HUGE believers in disproportional revenge. It's just how stuff works here. The tuk-tuk driver obviously thought to himself 'ok I'm going to really teach this guy a lesson' and yeah, he did. The guy has no contacts in Thailand and was easy prey for both police and driver. Who's going to do anything, the Canadian embassy?

It's natural to be disgusted by this and that's good. It means you have a sense of morality. You see cases like this spring up all the time here on the forum. My initial reaction to the article was actually how cheap he had gotten off. 1000 is pretty dam_n lenient. Usually they try to get massive sums out of tourists before they fly back home.

[blaze]

Why would Anwar confess? What were the options presented to him?

Why, after having assaulted the tuk tuk driver, would he wait around while the driver phoned for help? Did he think the driver was phoning a professional mediator?

Or was his confession the only way out of a situation that promised to get much more unpleasant?

I suppose, once you have been charged with a criminal offense, you must surrender your passport and pay bail till court rolls around. Which could be several months. At this point the only smart thing to do would be to pay a token 1000 baht fine- get the passport back- and get out of the country. Pronto.

In this way, you escape a potential guilty verdict from a court- (with possible jail time)- and charges against the driver are dropped since the complainent has already pled guilty to initiating the violence. Win win?

Sickening.

For those that say Anwar was out of line- (or a total idiot)- so what? The issue is simply- do the tuk tuk drivers have the legal authority- under ANY condition short of self defense- to beat up people? (Even the tuk tuk driver understood that: hence his claim of being a victim- not of the Canadian's greed- but rather of assault).

Perhaps more frightening than the events in Phuket are the attitudes that some citizens of western countries- including Canada- take towards vigilantism-- as evidenced on this board. I can see it now- you show up for work at the local Tim's- somebody complains their double double is cold and refuses to pay- so you and Mable and Hilda take the caksucker outside and punch his lights out. The new normal.

God help our native land.

Edited January 7, 2010 by blaze

[ManInSurat]

@dttk0009

Yeah that is a good point about his small fine.

Such a shame another person who obviously likes the country - as he inferred he would visit Krabi next time (not sure this would be case now) - leaves with such a negative impression of what I consider a beautiful and amazing country. It's not like he isn't going to warn off all his friends, family and business acquaintances from travelling to Phuket and/or Thailand.

"Having a good customer service experience and the average customer tells 10 people. Having a BAD customer service experience and the average customer tells 100 people." - my old boss.

It really disappoints me that Thailand continually does this to itself. At a time when the revenue is much needed.

Though as you've already pointed out it's not an isolated incident and there's little we can do about it.

Sorry for calling you apathetic, I wasn't trying to be rude

Edited January 7, 2010 by ManInSurat

[dttk0009]

@dttk0009

Yeah that is a good point about his small fine.

Such a shame another person who obviously likes the country - as he inferred he would visit Krabi next time (not sure this would be case now) - leaves with such a negative impression of what I consider a beautiful and amazing country. It's not like he isn't going to warn off all his friends and business acquaintances from travelling to Phuket and/or Thailand.

It really disappoints me that Thailand continually does this to itself. At a time when the revenue is much needed.

Though as you've already pointed out it's not an isolated incident and there's little we can do about it.

Sorry for calling you apathetic, I wasn't trying to be rude

It's all gravy . I think jaded is a better word to describe how I feel about it I think. I just feel overexposed to this kind of stuff. Last new years a good friend of mine was mugged in a cab. Someone pulled him out at a red light, punched him in the face a few times and took his cell phone. After that the mugger hopped in the cab and they raced off. This didn't make news or anything. He went to the police and their reaction was basically 'we don't care'. I mean it got me thinking, for every time this kind of thing makes the newspaper, how many times does it happen without someone finding out? Scary stuff.

[churchill]

Sounds like the couple who were arrested at the Airport and locked up for a week -

screwed by the tuk tuk driver then screwed by the police -

[tropo]

Kicked in the chest. Bruised in the belly. The plot thickens ...

BTW, the driver's story is basically impossible to believe.

If this Canadian tourist ends up in Thai prison over this, oh, that makes me sick to even think about it.

It's all quite ridiculous. I couldn't imagine anyone initiating an attack by kicking (except maybe a Thai kickboxer). If he did kick it was most likely a defensive kick to ward off more punches to the head.

[ManInSurat]

I did some digging on Mr Anwar and it turns out he's a part-time Ninja and Amateur World Belly Kicking Champion!

Those Canucks really surprise me sometimes.

Kicked in the chest. Bruised in the belly. The plot thickens ...

BTW, the driver's story is basically impossible to believe.

If this Canadian tourist ends up in Thai prison over this, oh, that makes me sick to even think about it.

It's all quite ridiculous. I couldn't imagine anyone initiating an attack by kicking (except maybe a Thai kickboxer). If he did kick it was most likely a defensive kick to ward off more punches to the head.

[Old Croc]

The Australian woman bar towel thief has subsequently been refused a visa to enter the USA because of her "criminal conviction" in Thailand.

I wonder if this fellow will find himself in the same situation because of his conviction and 1000 bht fine?

[bushwacker]

Hmmm .... this guy is not a Canadian! He does not look like a canadian, he does not act like a canadian, he does not live or work in canada. At best he is an example of what is wrong with the canadian immigration system and probably what is wrong with many other countries immigration systems.

My guess is that he might have gotten a canadian passport because he had family immigrate to canada and he told the government that he wanted to stay in canada and wanted to make it his home. Then when the government was not looking he jumps to some cheap country to work and live but keeping his healthcare options open for when he is older and needs cheap and good health care. If the government phones him in Canada then some relative or friend will pretent to be him. It would not surprise me if he were collecting unemployment insurance and welfare payments while teaching abroad.

The same situation happened to me but from the bus station to the hotel for 100b .... and the hotel was almost directly across the street. So literally the tuk-tuk crossed a small street. I looked at him ... and laughed. I had talked him down from 150b to 100b .... so funny. That is how canadians react. The way the story reads these actions were not canadian.

And the story has a huge gap in it between the 100b offer and the beating. Although i do not support violence, i must agree with the ideas expressed .... he made a deal and he should have been aware of the distance, and live up to his agreement. Hmmm ... i would have looked at a map or asked at the hotel that i was leaving from ... or asked the hotel that i was going to. If he had a bad back and luggage then 150b ($4.50) is acceptable. There seems to be a lot missing in this story. But a canadian would have tried to get the driver to agree that the amount was too much and finish the transaction with a friendly smile. I get the impression that the customer jumped out of the tuktuk, probably speaking in a raised voice, tossed some money at the driver and started to move away.

We after all are guests in thailand. Advantage driver!

[paterdemon]

if you agree for a price then you cant go back and start again negotiations.

[ManInSurat]

Hmmm .... this guy is not a Canadian! He does not look like a canadian, he does not act like a canadian, he does not live or work in canada. At best he is an example of what is wrong with the canadian immigration system and probably what is wrong with many other countries immigration systems.

My guess is that he might have gotten a canadian passport because he had family immigrate to canada and he told the government that he wanted to stay in canada and wanted to make it his home. Then when the government was not looking he jumps to some cheap country to work and live but keeping his healthcare options open for when he is older and needs cheap and good health care. If the government phones him in Canada then some relative or friend will pretent to be him. It would not surprise me if he were collecting unemployment insurance and welfare payments while teaching abroad.

The same situation happened to me but from the bus station to the hotel for 100b .... and the hotel was almost directly across the street. So literally the tuk-tuk crossed a small street. I looked at him ... and laughed. I had talked him down from 150b to 100b .... so funny. That is how canadians react. The way the story reads these actions were not canadian.

And the story has a huge gap in it between the 100b offer and the beating. Although i do not support violence, i must agree with the ideas expressed .... he made a deal and he should have been aware of the distance, and live up to his agreement. Hmmm ... i would have looked at a map or asked at the hotel that i was leaving from ... or asked the hotel that i was going to. If he had a bad back and luggage then 150b ($4.50) is acceptable. There seems to be a lot missing in this story. But a canadian would have tried to get the driver to agree that the amount was too much and finish the transaction with a friendly smile. I get the impression that the customer jumped out of the tuktuk, probably speaking in a raised voice, tossed some money at the driver and started to move away.

We after all are guests in thailand. Advantage driver!

He teaches English in Japan. You reckon Japan is a cheap country... how ever I smell something here.....

Has no one fed you yet or is getting lonely under the bridge?

Try and

Really think before you

Offend someone with this

Libelous and

Lacking-in-common sense rubbish!

[george]

This story continues here:

Canadian confesses Phuket tuk-tuk driver assault, pays fine at Phuket Court

Story update:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Canadian-Con...uk-t327771.html