How Many Scuba Shops, Boats, Dive Instructors?

[ekachat]

Just wondering after a few years, exactly how many dive shops actually exist on Phuket proper?

In fact, I am even more curious about the number of dive boats or even "dive boats".

Another question is what might be a rough estimate of dive instructors, as well as course directors?

The reason I ask is that I see mentions of "tuk-tuk" overload, and can't help thinking that there's also surely a "scuba dive shop/operation" overload, as well as a few other business types.

These all lead to exactly the kinds of politics the tuk-tuks have, but it's of the silent nature, because of the farang tension about work permits and political exposure among peers. But it's just as much low down politics as any other here.

I have to ask though, aren't there too many dive shops on Phuket? How many shops do you really need when there are only x number of boats around, and the island faces an ever diminishing tourist appeal?

And, even more to the point -how many instructors are being trained under the false belief they would actually find work here? Is it really fair to lead people on just to get them to sign up into a profession they won't really have a chance to make a real go with?

To my knowledge, you have to speak a few languages, and have an excellent approach to the trade to even stand a chance.

But perhaps this is a PADI thing, I've seen it in other regions but not nearly so much as here. Go back a few years on Thaivisa and you'll see plenty of threads with a theme of "great, all Phuket needs is another instructor, go home this is my world and my gig".

So, just how many Open Water Scuba Instructors are there anyways?

Unlike the tuk-tuk drama, there are concrete things that Phuket could do to expand it's dive industry. The governor (for a very short time) before Mr. Ngob actually mentioned this as a centerpiece of his plan for Phuket. He even showed up in a wetsuit and participated in some events (sinking the aircraft to make artificial reef, etc.)

One is to make PADI or local dive shops (and don't let racism take over when you hear this) responsible in some fashion to easing in Thai dive instructors. Why is it that the boat boys and captain and cook are Thai? Oh right, they don't speak the language or what? There are plenty that do and want to. But farang dive shop owners don't want them. Hmmmm. They know these waters better than anyone, and it's the case around the world that locals are often the dive instructors, -but here, not seeing it.

The work permit issue is what it is because somehow, the farangs seem to have a lock on it. If you are a PADI Instructor here, just how comfortable do you feel when getting an Immigration stamp?

There's an overload folks, and it's time to expand the available dive spots and opportunities, or for PADI Course Directors and Dive Shops to stop misleading OWSI candidates about the optons here on Phuket and throughout Thailand.

Bill

[LivinginKata]

Not a news item so moved from News Clippings to Phuket General.

[gvallee2]

not everyone that comes to phuket uses tuktuks. But almost everyone who isnt on a budget travel from australia will go dive at least once.

Also most shops have 10-15 other shops linked to their own.

Its like those worthless tourist agency in bangkok that send you to khao san to meet all the other guys from other agencies then they cram tyou into a crappy bus with dirty backpackers then they transfer u to some pickup truck, then a bycicle tuktuk then they make you ride a camel or something... They're all linked

Edited January 8, 2010 by gvallee2

[ScubaBuddha]

I see no one is taking a guess, so I'll give it a go. If I were to guess, I would say:

200 Dive shops, including multiple locations with same business name, the little hole in the wall booking only ones, and non PADI sanctioned internet only shops.

400-500 Instructors and Divemasters, although not all are active.

20 Course Directors, although not all active though.

25 day trip boats, 15 live-a-boards.

After my guess I looked here. I think my numbers might be fairly accurate.

http://www.sunrise-divers.com/

http://www.padi.com/scuba/locate-a-padi-di...op/default.aspx

PADI shows 66 dive shops in Phuket. Many of those have multiple locations, plus there are a number of non-PADI shops here, such as NAUI, C-MAS, B-SAC, SSI, TDI, etc.

Sometimes the dive sites do get a bit crowded, so I see your point, but I haven't seen any impact on the marine environment directly due to diving. The devastation caused by dynamite and general overfishing is apparent, however. The diving atmosphere here is generally very pro-active in terms of preserving the reefs and marine life. In my experience, instructors and divemasters that allow their students to practice poor buoyancy over the reefs, damaging them, or touches, or allows their charges to touch any marine life, are quickly chastised, even ostracized, by other instructors and divemasters. We like think that any adverse effect of diving is far outweighed by the environmental stewardship we advocate to our new divers.

I don't think there is a corollary between the tuk tuks and dive shops as you describe. Within diving their is a free market. The strong survive and the weak parish, so to speak. Look at what happened to Eden when they tried to create a monopoly here. The tuk tuks are organized criminals which operate by instilling fear, threats and committing violence against others to protect their illegal transportation monopoly. Sure there are stories of the occasional inter-shop dispute, and some mysterious late night boat sinkings. (Seems to happen in Phi Phi a lot) But the situation on Phuket is not even close to the "low down politics" you describe. And it's not like 5-10 years ago when you could get away with working regularly with no work permit. I know many farang instructors that have gotten caught over the years, and sometimes it is from a complaint by someone else. And that complaint sometimes comes from a farang and sometimes from a Thai.

As for Thai instructors, you are right, the shop owners often want to use them, but they would if they were multi-lingual and showed the kind of leadership and skills needed. I know a lot of good Thai divemasters and instructors, and I know a lot of bad farang ones, but the general consensus is Thai divemasters and instructors are simply not as good. I'm not saying that it is true, I am saying that this is the general feeling in the industry.

Here is one reason why:

In order for a farang to renew a work permit as an instructor, he or she must train a certain amount of Thai people, ideally through Divemaster, for free. This often happens legitimately, but it also can happen only on paper. The result being a whole lot of "certified" but not "qualified" Thai divemasters. Unless the shop trained them, it is unlikely they will hire them with out some major good word of mouth, unless forced to because of immigration laws due to the number of farang employed by the same company.

There is also a lack of interest in Thai's to work in the industry, even when the training is free. Thai's often don't want to become a divemaster or instructor due to issues around being able to swim, fear of water or sharks, or "it's too cold". These are all reasons I have been given by Thai's as to why they don't care to go into the profession.

Edited January 11, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[stevenl]

I know a lot of good Thai divemasters and instructors, and I know a lot of bad farang ones, but the general consensus is Thai divemasters and instructors are simply not as good. I'm not saying that it is true, I am saying that this is the general feeling in the industry.

I don't think that is the general feeling.

For the rest: it sounds to me like the op had a bad experience with an IDC where he was promised gold mountains. Take it up with that CD.

[ScubaBuddha]

I know a lot of good Thai divemasters and instructors, and I know a lot of bad farang ones, but the general consensus is Thai divemasters and instructors are simply not as good. I'm not saying that it is true, I am saying that this is the general feeling in the industry.

I don't think that is the general feeling.

For the rest: it sounds to me like the op had a bad experience with an IDC where he was promised gold mountains. Take it up with that CD.

I've been waiting for you to find something to contradict in my post, steven. Whenever I write about diving I have you in mind as it happens so often. That's OK. Keeps me honest.

If you were to ask around farang managers and owners about Thai DM's and instructors and get honest answers, this is what you would hear. They aren't very sought after, and their aren't many of them for the reasons I stated. Simple fact.

Edited January 11, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[stevenl]

My opinion:

At the moment there are the following companies:

* Thai companies, more and more only employing Thai staff. In general the management is not very involved or does not care very much, low standards;

* general companies, catering to anybody. In general good, with Thai and foreign staff. Not all Thais want to work here, because e.g. standards are different (for example sometimes no photography allowed, which deprives the divestaff of a major income source);

* specific language companies. here we see a major difference: the Russians tend to be low standard, the German, Finnish and Japanese much higher. Since not many Thai speak the specific language and are diving professionals they are no in high demand here;

* the smaller dive operations, with maybe 1-2 divestaff. This means the staff has to be versatile, so Thai, only speaking 1 foreign language, are not in high demand. Neither are English speaking instructors, because they normally speak no foreign language.

I speak to other owners on a regular basis, and I don't feel myself or get the feeling that it is the quality of Thai divemasters or instructors. I often get the feeling that e.g. Thai divemasters are highly regarded because of their eagle eyes. Thai instructors, where languages are more critical, are I less in demand, plus there are far less Thai instructors. I have trained quite a few Thai DM's, one of them was as you described, did a free DOCT course and could not care less about working in the industry, the other 2 speak a bit of English, one more than the other, but not good enough to instruct in English. And that means there is really no incentive for them to become instructor.

SB, I don't want to give the wrong impression though, because in general I agree with your post, just this one part made me tick. Plus, as I said, I have the feeling the OP has a problem with an IDC, with giving false promises. And IMO he should take that op with the CD, although that won't get him very far, so consider it a life lesson. Lots of crooks in the diving industry, agree with the OP there, and mainly the foreigners.

[ScubaBuddha]

Fair enough. Good points. More detailed than I could provide. I agree the OP may have had a bad experience. I think it is far more important what kind of reputation you have as a DM or Instructor in terms of wether you will find regular work. Being mulit-lingual helps alot. T

There is a funny phrase I have heard used on customers here before. "It's better to have a good instructor that speaks English than a bad one that speaks XYZ." Being mono-lingual I like it.

[stevenl]

Yes, you're right. If we have a course in a certain language and i can't find an instructor to my liking i either do the course myself or we do it in english.

Better a good instructor in a non native but familiar language than a bad instructor in the native language.