Should An Ex-bar Girl Hide Her Past...

[schmutzie]

My girlfriend is an ex-bar girl. Of course she's a lot of other things too. Pretty, stylish, witty, smart and wanting to make something for herself in life...

But she suffers from the same fate as a lot of girls that have dropped out of high school(s) and gone "bad girl" for a time. Even the single tattoo she has recently put her out of contention for a job in a Thai business (admittedly after scoring poorly on a test they ran). Academically she has nothing really. So you're really at the bottom of the food chain.

I recently saw an ad for a ex-pat run restaurant and was wondering whether that would be something for her. And was wondering at the same time if it would be inadvisable for her to come clean about her past as a bar girl? Or just leave a gap in her CV or fill in with "helping out family"?

Personally I would just encourage honesty and would, perhaps rather naively, expect a foreign business owner to be more understanding and not exclude her/label her because of it. But at the same time I suspect she'll get dropped from the pile pretty quick. Especially if a thai member of staff is doing the vetting.

Keen to hear how expats with a business here view this.

[Moonrakers]

Not sure.

A restaurant owner might be concerned that she will 'go with' customers but I s'pose that is down to the individual and possibly how your GF comes across.

One thing I am sure of though is that you are going to get a lot of stupid responses from the self righteous brigade, ignore them.

[cdnmatt]

Don't own a business in Thailand, but if I was in her position, I would definitely be honest about everything. That's one attribute every employer wants, and even though her past might not be the greatest, I'm sure there's quite a few employers out there who will disregard the past, and look favorably towards her because she was so straight forward and honest.

That, and tell her to write a cover letter with the intention of provoking empathy. Be honest about her past, and explain the reasoning behind it (needed to help support family, etc.). Use the cover letter so the potential employer sees her as a human with good intentions and morals, and not just a bar girl.

[way2muchcoffee]

The most convincing lies contain elements of truth. I would suggest she say that she worked as bartender or service staff. This will show that she does have experience in the service industry without her being immediately labeled as a bar girl. They will suspect but probably won't ask for more details in order to avoid any awkwardness.

Edited January 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[473geo]

The most convincing lies contain elements of truth. I would suggest she say that she worked as bartender or service staff. This will show that she does have experience in the service industry, without her being immediately labeled as a bar girl. They will suspect but probably won't ask for more details in order to avoid any awkwardness.

I agree very subtle honesty is required......but not to highlight or make a big thing about it......are there other experiences that she can pad the CV out with.....and as you say be bright and bubbly about her expectations, and her wish to get on in life.....

[mca]

Succinctly put way2muchcoffee.

[up-country_sinclair]

I don't own a bar/restaurant, but if I did I don't think I'd hire an ex 'bar girl'.

There aren't a lot of situations in which I would say that lying is the best policy, but I think this is one of them.

[Gippy]

Most of my customers are middle age, wealthy, wanna be hi-so Thai ladies. They can smell a bar girl a mile off and I couldn't take the risk of losing their custom so would have to pass.

If I had a bar or a restaurant catering for tourists it probably wouldn't bother me but it would be hard to get past the wife.

[Davidusaf99]

Thais will not want to know about it, and if they did, would treat her much differently. I would say - leave the past in the past, and move on, sans that little historical tidbit.

[villagefarang]

Prostitution is not considered legal by most. Whether applying for a job or a visa one should never openly admit to breaking the law. That is completely separate from the whole moral issue that surrounds this profession.

Thais are very class structured and ask very personal questions in a effort to figure out where others stand in relation to them. It is integral to how one addresses and relates to others. If you admit to being at the bottom of the social ladder then you will be treated accordingly. Not fair perhaps but the way things are done.

Perhaps unfortunately Thais are very good at reading each other and even good lies may not help. Support your girlfriend in any way you can and don't push her too hard. It may be very difficult for her.

Edited January 10, 2010 by villagefarang

[MrHammer]

yeah, telling your prospective employer that you have worked as a whore is sure to go over well.

[tb86]

I would advise against it, whilst its not a good idea to lie on a cv, honesty that is sure to continue to cause her harm is pointless. There is a good chance the thais she works with / for will figure it out on there own, especially in the restaurant buisness. Its almost unavoidable for her, but you need to realize that she may have trouble in a buisness that will pay her a lower salary than what shes used to earning for more work, just some food for thought....

[IanForbes]

The most convincing lies contain elements of truth. I would suggest she say that she worked as bartender or service staff. This will show that she does have experience in the service industry without her being immediately labeled as a bar girl. They will suspect but probably won't ask for more details in order to avoid any awkwardness.

I agree. I wouldn't go into detail, but it doesn't hurt if you use a little honesty. And, not ALL women who work in Thailand bars are for rent. Many already have steady boyfriends and husbands. Unfortunately, many tourists don't know this and assume everyone working in a bar is for hire. I wouldn't expect a woman who worked in a North American bar to tell how many men she slept with, so why should a woman who works in a Thai bar? A woman is either qualified or she isn't. If she's attractive, personable and willing to work then that should be all that matters. It's not like somebody who has spent time for committing crimes having to explain to potential employer that they were a former crook.

[DP25]

would, perhaps rather naively, expect a foreign business owner to be more understanding and not exclude her/label her because of it.

I wouldn't assume that at all if I were you. I would not have her put down bar girl on her resume, put down anything else. Even prison might be preferable

[Heng]

They can smell a bar girl a mile off.

It seems the only folks that cannot tend to arrive here by plane.

[t.s]

No matter how many ways you look at it, the position "whore" doesn't look good on a resume.

[thaiozy]

I`m not going to say your looking in the wrong places BUT don`t say the girls are working as bad girls because of their lack of education it`s because the family could not afford to send them to school.

My wife worked in a factory for many many years looking after mother & trying to build house for herself with other friends od the area

so open your eyes

[GucciLittlePiggy]

They can smell a bar girl a mile off.

It seems the only folks that cannot tend to arrive here by plane.

How do 'they' know? Tattoos are a give away but what are the other tells?

[berniefromny]

Not sure.

A restaurant owner might be concerned that she will 'go with' customers but I s'pose that is down to the individual and possibly how your GF comes across.

One thing I am sure of though is that you are going to get a lot of stupid responses from the self righteous brigade, ignore them.

blaming a tattoo for her lack of hirability while dismissing her lack of intellectual power .

thailand is one big parrrrrrrtttttttttyyyyyyyyyy!

IF YOU WANT TO HELP HER SEND HER TO SCHOOL! ALTHOUGH WEARING THOSE UNIS MIGHT bring back fond memories

bargirls are not bad people per se, they just see things different than non bargirls. like working 12 hours a day for 8$ is for the birds.

Edited January 10, 2010 by berniefromny

[MiG16]

let me remind everyone to NOT turn this into the morality question of the profession, the logic, reasoning etc

the OP has asked for opinion about whether or not to be forthcoming to potential employers. lets keep suggestions on that and not debate the why of the profession.

cheers

PS> to the OP - I know that usually honesty is the best thing, but this is not one of those situations. way2muchcoffee may have offered a good compromise. some may ask her what kind of bar the place is, and make their own conclusion from that, some may not probe further, depending whats put in the resume and what is said at the interview.

good luck

[eek]

Thais will not want to know about it, and if they did, would treat her much differently. I would say - leave the past in the past, and move on, sans that little historical tidbit.

I agree.

A CV is to advertise your positive attributes and skills, etc. Basically a way to sell yourself. (Sorry for the poor phrasing.)

I had a ton of different part-time and casual jobs during my degree. I dont put down the details, just something along the lines of various casual part-time jobs during my degree inc: xyz. One person I did some work for turned out to be a complete bitch, didnt like that i left, and said that she wouldnt give me a reference etc. I leave her out completely, because i dont want to have to justify myself (which instantly looks bad, even though not in the wrong), and thankfully i dont need her reference.

CV's shouldnt contain lies, but most will emphasise the good aspects and leave out the stuff they dont want in there or feel is relevant. Most employers dont want to read a rambling CV anyway. Keep it concise and relevant. There is absolutely NO need for her to put in something so personal as her past as a bg! As some have mentioned she could talk about bar trade..but wouldnt that bring up questions as to what experience etc she had. Unless she really did have some practical bar/waitressing experience, dont mention it at all. If she goes to work in the service trade they will notice any lack of experience..believe me a non experienced person working in a restaurant is VERY noticeable. Better to say "helping with family" or whatever during that period and start from scratch, with beginners training, rather than trip up over herself.

Her employer doesnt need to know this element of her past, and its not relevant. Heck, even in her private life and with friends from now on, unless she wants to, she doesnt need to tell people either. No person needs to know another persons background and details unless that person wants to tell them.

[gvallee2]

she should say it because it will be quite visible to the eye of the employer. Then she won't ever be hired for lying.

[bubblegum]

Sorry, but most people seem to mis a very important point. She dropped out of Highschool and failed a test on Thai business. So why o why would anybody want to hire her to RUN a bar/restaurant or any kind of business ??????

You do need to know some math, management,administration skills and so on and so one........

[Bakeman]

As a business owner she would be hired upon her credentials. It may be up to you to turn her past into a future. Help her get an education.

[JUDAS]

Sorry, but most people seem to mis a very important point. She dropped out of Highschool and failed a test on Thai business. So why o why would anybody want to hire her to RUN a bar/restaurant or any kind of business ??????

You do need to know some math, management,administration skills and so on and so one........

Read the OP again.

[TheJoker12]

I have, at first glance, mistaken quite a number of normal girls with farang males as being ex bar girls. It became obvious that they weren't after I spoke with them/heard them speak. This could just be in a shopping mall or an acquaintances date.

I am sure that many have mistaken my wife for an ex-bar girl too. Its the price you pay for being a farang in Thailand. You just have to get over it and realize that the farang in Thailand have made their bed and we all have to sleep in it.

Also, if your Thai wife is not an ex-bar girl, once she speaks with other Thais/expats they will know that she isn't. No worries.

Edited January 10, 2010 by TheJoker12

[IanForbes]

As others have said... help her get an education. It can come in many forms of which home study can be one. But, first the gal has to have a good idea what type of career she would like. Every career requires different knowledge and technique. Learning how to manage books and do some accounting is a simple task, and it always comes in handy in just about every job. Even I learned it.

Tatoos are not always a give away that a woman is a bar girl, but it might get someone guessing. I see them on many young women who don't work in bars. The same with belly and other body jewelry.

One thing she DOES have going for her is she is attractive and speaks some English. That is a HUGE step above many other more qualified women. Like it or not, employers DO tend to hire the better looking people. That goes for males as well as females.

[DegenFarang]

Sounds like you have good taste in women.

You should pay to get her tattoo removed and you and her should both refrain from telling anybody that she used to be a bar girl - it isn't going to do anybody any good. If she must explain that gap in her resume she can just lie and say she was a waitress or a bartender. Or say that she didn't work at all.

I think the biggest issue former BG's have in resuming a normal life, however, is not whether or not they tell people they were a BG or whether or not they have tatoo's - it is in behaving normally. Lot's of them pickup drug habbits, keep terrible hours, hang out with bad people and generally take on many personality traits not common to most working thai's - super outgoing personalities, being very loud and expecting to be paid more than 8,000 baht per month at an entry level job - to name a few.

[bankruatsteve]

Actually, this is interesting topic from a philosophical perspective: can an "ignorant bar girl" get other employment based on wit and charm otherwise?

Hmmm. I suppose it's where you are located that could make some difference. But, TIT.

So, I don't think so.

Get an education? OK. Then what? There is a class system in Thailand that will defy any serious attempt to "do better" without it and, there's lot's of competition. I've seen many "bar girls" with university degree b/c it pays better than anything else they could do.

But, I would encourage anybody to try for it. Life is all about seeing what you can do with it and being happy for achieving - or at least trying.

Cheers,

[Neeranam]

yeah, telling your prospective employer that you have worked as a whore is sure to go over well.

That's not very nice - do you think bar-girls have sex in exchange for money?

But I agree. Off course she shouldn't tell the employer.