Idea For Tuk-tuks In Patong.

[NamKangMan]

Hi all,

yes, I'm a newbie, but, I have been coming and going to Patong for 7 years at, usually, twice a year, and sometimes three times a year, staying about three weeks at a time but have also traveled extensively all over Thailand. I'm well traveled and it is the same everywhere, taxi drivers are the scurge of the tourism industry in every country, including my own. Having said that, yesterday, an American taxi driver returned $23,000US to an elderly women who left her purse in his taxi, so, there are honest people out there. Ok, so, why do I happily get on the baht bus in Pattaya, but willing pay a lot extra for a hotel in Patong that is walking distance to everything because I refuse to deal with, and create business for, the tuk-tuks in Patong? A return trip in a tuk-tuk in Patong is 400 baht, 200 baht each way. I spend the extra 400 baht a night to get a hotel within walking distance to the action just to escape the tuk-tuk extortion. So, are the hotel/guesthouse/bar owners who are slightly away from the action aware that many return tourist to Patong are also doing the same? These tuk-tuk drivers, and their collusion in setting the minimum set rate of a 200 baht fare, are hurting the businesses that are a little further afield from Beach Rd, Bangla Rd,

Rat-u-Thip Rd and Soi Sansabai. They should be passively applying pressure to the industry by having a courtesy car or minibus that is available 24/7 to shield their patrons from the industry, thus ensuring repeat customers instead of them looking to stay within walking distance on their next visit. Recent news is the parking and traffic problems on these roads, especially Beach Rd is terrible. This is mainly due to "sanctioned" illegal parking by tuk-tuks. The tuk-tuks in Patong are not your traditional tuk-tuk

(motorbike at front - 2 seats in rear). They are small trucks with bench seats. So, my idea is why not turn them into baht buses. They will be used more, they will not be parked illegally because they will always be on the move, in general - tourist will be safer - especially getting home at night and there would be affordable and readily available transport extending the full length of the city. Surely their profits would be up as they now have the "cheaper price - higher turnover" business scenario. To be honest, I would pay 20 baht a journey in order to open up the selection of hotels I can stay at and bars I can drink at because, currently, I refuse to give them a cent. Anyway, if someone "connected" ever started a baht bus in Patong, I'm sure it would be an overnight success. I've rambled on long enough. I look forward to your thoughts on the matter. All abuse will gladly be accepted.

[fiddlehead]

Your idea is a lovely one.

No abuse here except it can't work as long as the tuk tuk mafia has the power.

They will flip over, burn, and last resort shoot (to kill) the operators in order to keep their monopoly.

Only the army can make this happen and I would like to see it happen also.

But have my doubts.

8 years living here, i've used tuk tuks on Phuket twice (heavy rain or had too much to carry)

Both times i regretted it.

Edited January 14, 2010 by fiddlehead

[NamKangMan]

I'm not talking about putting operators and drivers out of business, whether they be involved in a criminal enterprise or not. My idea is to get the drivers, driving. Their bosses give them the order to drive the tuk-tuk as a baht bus. So, instead of standing around all day harrassing first time to thailand tourists, they have to actually do some work and drive around at 20 kph for 8 or so hours. The tuk-tuks will then be used, which results in more money for the tuk-tuk bosses, the parking problem is solved, the tourist get their affordable and available transport, the businesses outside of the centre now have more customers, everyone is happy. I believe the tuk-tuk bosses will listen to anything that will make them more money. No need for the army or an underworld war. The drivers are just foot soliders who will follow their orders or be either out of a job, or punished for their disobedience. This idea would also take control away from the drivers. You hand your 10 or 20 baht through the window and walk off. No haggling, confrontation, scamming etc. How good would Patong be with this transport system? The bosses can sort out who gets the more lucrative routes etc or rotate their drivers to spread the wealth, but what do the customers care? It's 10 or 20 baht in any, and all tuk-tuks, for any length of journey. In Pattaya, many baht buses pass you by on Beach Road because they are full. It doesn't matter because there is another one 30 seconds behind. These Patong tuk-tuks would be the same, full, and turning a nice baht profit, some of which, could flow down to the driver himself . All the vehicles are in place and no need tohave meters, the road are now mostly one way, there is currently no parking for all these tuk-tuks, there is certainly a demand, so it would cost the operators nothing to implement it overnight.

[LivinginKata]

Be a hard sell to get the drivers to start working all day, burning more fuel, and collecting 20 baht per passenger. Right now they laze about most of the day, burning no fuel, and most likely would earn the same money = more profit as they presently use little fuel.

I'm sure that if a baht bus service was available in the beach areas then far more people would use the service and the drivers would earn more money, but for a far longer 'working' day, and costing them more in fuel. Not an attractive proposition to the drivers.

[NamKangMan]

I agree, LivingInKata, the drivers are the weakest link in this chain and I did think about the issues you mentioned. However, if the mafia bosses are as strong as we think they are, the drivers will do what they are told. They could make driving the Patong

tuk-tuk/baht bus an apprenticeship of joining the mafia. Heaven forbid, a "tuk-tuk drivers union" in Thailand. Whilst not good for the environment, the burning of fuel would be far out weighed by the large profits involved. In Pattaya, even the bar girls catch the baht buses to work. Everyone from locals, expats, tourists and bar girls would jump on board. That's a lot of turn over, everynight, not to mention the shoppers during the day. Once again, I would be happy to pay 20 baht instead of 10 baht a journey if this was implemented. I think most would support it with 20 baht, rather than what we have there now, which is nothing. At 20 baht a journey, surely there would be good enough money as an incentive to the drivers to go out and work. Currently, the bar girls get motor taxis at 20 baht (more for farang - of course). They would rather ride in a vehicle than on a bike. For the bar girls that do ride, there is the 20 baht they give to the guy who parks their bike and keeps an eye on it for them. This would just go to the tuk-tuk and they save on fuel. The whole of the tourism industry would use the service. It would probably stop all those gorgeous bar girls getting those ugly scars when they fall off their bikes drunk on their way home as well. Not to mention cutting back on all the drunk farang riding home, some of whom, never made it home. I just see soooo many positives and very few negative to implementing it.

[alfbondi]

Mate you might of been coming to phuket for seven years, however you havent learnt much .

[LivinginKata]

Mate you might of been coming to phuket for seven years, however you havent learnt much .

Mmmm .... that's what I was thinking.

[LivinLOS]

The OPs logic is that is it somehow better for the mafia bosses to get lots of 20 baht than lots of 500 bahts..

Forgive me while I doubt the numbers stack up.

The fact remains..Theres WAY to many of them, because they use violence and intimidation to stop free market competition.. If the illegal violence was to be controlled, the police do their job and perps be harshly punished.. Then competing services could start. If competing services are an option the system crumbles.. It all falls back on the complicit and corrupt police, and in fact most asian social services.. Hence this is why the problem is so hard to change.

[neverdie]

Mate you might of been coming to phuket for seven years, however you havent learnt much .

Bit harsh, give the guy a break, as someone else said at least hes coming up with ideas not just having a winge about whats going on.

The OP probably has the right idea but the fare would need to be higher, up around the 50 baht per trip to get these guys moving & also these types of fares are only going to work on some of the loops, larger loops would need to be slightly more expensive based on the distance travelled & the lighter loads.

Having said all of that, if the ATTITUDE of these PUNKS cant be changed then I doubt will EVER HAPPEN.

Also, in my experience, applying common sense to some of these types of problems isnt going to work because theres always an offbeat reason for things occurring the way they do.

[NamKangMan]

Yeh, I know TIT (This Is Thailand) and, yes, some things defy logic in Thailand, but, I was last there late November 09 and sat on Beach Road for a while watching the passing pedestrian traffic whilst having lunch. Only a few, of the many, tuk-tuks picked up a fare in the 1 hour I was observing. At that rate, can't see how it is profitable now and with the word continually speading not to use them, global economic downturn, Phuket outpricing itself etc etc I can only see them falling on their own sword in the near future. When that day comes, I will not shed a tear. By the way, I have never sent money for sick buffalo, mama fall off motor bike, baby brother need money for go to school, papa need operation etc etc - so, I have learnt something in 7 years.

[LivinLOS]

The OP probably has the right idea but the fare would need to be higher, up around the 50 baht per trip to get these guys moving & also these types of fares are only going to work on some of the loops, larger loops would need to be slightly more expensive based on the distance travelled & the lighter loads.

But could it support the current numbers of tuktuks ?? If they were all moving all the time it would be like a train..

On the way to my place is some low rent thai housing, outside it in the morning theres 20+ tuktuks.. When every other person tries to do the same job it gets a little silly. .

Having said all of that, if the ATTITUDE of these PUNKS cant be changed then I doubt will EVER HAPPEN.

Also, in my experience, applying common sense to some of these types of problems isnt going to work because theres always an offbeat reason for things occurring the way they do.

Senior (ex) police being involved in the tuk tuk leasing biz

[NamKangMan]

I don't think we need competition in the industry, just a high level meeting of the local polititions, police and mafia bosses. They all agree to give it a go and see what happens. They can always go back. Provided they don't set ridiculous prices per journey like 100 baht, it should/will work. These tuk-tuks run on the smell of an oily rag, so, fuel is not the issue. If it can't work in Patong, why does it work so well in Pattaya, or are there no mafia in Pattaya????

[NamKangMan]

As metioned in a previous post, currently, they are not getting any fares, so, to cruise around all day, and pick up and drop off like a baht bus, has to make more money than maybe getting one naive new tourist for 200 baht and then getting to the back of the que.

[stevenl]

I am convinced this would financially be better for the drivers, but still it won't happen.

A pity because it is a simple but good idea IMO.

[logbags]

As metioned in a previous post, currently, they are not getting any fares, so, to cruise around all day, and pick up and drop off like a baht bus, has to make more money than maybe getting one naive new tourist for 200 baht and then getting to the back of the que.

Oh I just love Thai-axegrinder.com. You always get so many balanced and informed opinions. I've never seen so many allround infrastructure, transportation, tourist industry and real estate experts located in one forum in my life.

Let's see, you are probably happy to go to bars and pay rip off prices for drinks, you then pay up to 500 baht if you want to take a girl out of the bar, the girl may want anything from 1000 upwards for her company. However you then want to be driven home for 20 baht. 200 baht is very outrageous for a ride home is it. I don't hear you complaining about the Rock City bar charging 200 baht for a small beer

I'll tell you a bit of history. Who did away with full bottle and half bottle mekong being sold in bars and only sold it only in glasses? - farang.

Who introduced bar fines when there never were any? -farang

Who opened Patong's first go go bar with bar fines? -farang

Yes, certain farangs taught many Thai's these gouging methods after bringing them down from Pattaya in the 80's.

Who taught the Thais how to lease and then sub-lease land plots and beer bar sois ? - farang

I can tell you about an American who worked at a law firm in Phuket. He set up just about every lease in Patong. He didn't give a shit as he never lived there.

I had a tuk-tuk driver at my place for cards recently. He said certain farangs complain bitterly about every peceived wrong in Phuket. Yet, never ever hold back on spending thousands on some bar girl from Udon or wherever. They hear the girls and what they really say about their love struck romeo.

The price of 200 baht for anywhere in Patong is a gouge, they admit it. They say "why should all these bar girls make a fortune while we sit around like muppets waiting for a fare then have to fight someone over 50 baht. They see guys happily handing over 2000 baht to some northern farm girl then have the same guy get pissed over his fare.

I know a number of drivers who have wives who work all day as maids in bungalows and then sit by their husband all night while he drives. They see the girls every morning leaving all cashed up yet rarely see a tip or gift from a guest like that. Then you wonder why they get pissed?

Thais are perhaps the most maleable and easy going people around, they are easy to win over and be friends with. They see bar crawlers as hypocrites willing to shell out a fortune on their own selfish gratifications then act like the original cheap charlie when dealing with them.

In 1985 a taxi to the airport from Patong was 500 baht, it still is. Back then 1 Aussie dollar 17-18 baht. U.S dollar was 24 or 25 baht. Now 1 Aussie is 30 baht and U.S 34 baht. A knock off water proof rolex was 500-800 baht. Things are actually much cheaper except farang owned bars like Rock City etc. Man, DVD's are 50 baht now, they used to be at least 100 or more.

In 1985 a tuk tuk to Kata was 700 baht at night after bar time and Surin was 700 and that was <deleted> miles away in those days as there was no ring road by the beach. The price of petrol is five times more expensive now as well.

Patong hasn't changed much at all in 25 years price wise per dollar rate. I have a picture of myself standing outside the Kangaroo bar New Years eve 1985. Apart from the flat screen T.V nothing has changed.

If you got rid of the Burmese, Bangladeshi and Indian suit sellers etc, Patong would still be ok. That to me is the main difference between now and the old days. That and the bar fines. This constant talk of a taxi "mafia" is ill-informed and tedious. These guys just want to protect their living, would you prefer they stopped driving farangs and started robbing them instead? They just want their slice of the tourist pie.

I ran businesses back then. I saw companies like budget and Avis move in, undercut everyone and put a lot of people out of a living. The smart Thais remember these things.

[fiddlehead]

Trying to convince me that the tuk tuk drivers are friendly, courteous, honest, sincere is just not going to change my experience (which was quite the opposite)

Sorry

I wish i could believe this.

Many Thai people do fit the bill (above). Just not any tuk tuk drivers that I have met. (admitting not many except in traffic)

[JiveTalker]

If you got rid of the Burmese, Bangladeshi and Indian suit sellers etc, Patong would still be ok. That to me is the main difference between now and the old days. That and the bar fines. This constant talk of a taxi "mafia" is ill-informed and tedious. These guys just want to protect their living, would you prefer they stopped driving farangs and started robbing them instead? They just want their slice of the tourist pie.

Yes, the Burmese are the reason Patong is not the same as it used to be.

Bloody hel_l.

[logbags]

As metioned in a previous post, currently, they are not getting any fares, so, to cruise around all day, and pick up and drop off like a baht bus, has to make more money than maybe getting one naive new tourist for 200 baht and then getting to the back of the que.

Drive around allday ay? Then all night till 2am to pick up the bar crawlers etc. When would he sleep, play with his kids, eat, have a life etc? Would you do it?

You want him to do 10 trips for 200 baht so to make 2000 baht he would need to make 100 trips

A Songthaew in the provinces may charge 10 - 15 baht but they hold 10- 15 people and when school gets out up to 20 or more. That works out at 200 baht a run so 10 runs may make them 2000 baht in just a few hours.

A tuk tuk holds far less and think of the wear and tear with five fat Germans in the back on a long haul New shockers every few months etc...........

[logbags]

Trying to convince me that the tuk tuk drivers are friendly, courteous, honest, sincere is just not going to change my experience (which was quite the opposite)

Sorry

I wish i could believe this.

Many Thai people do fit the bill (above). Just not any tuk tuk drivers that I have met. (admitting not many except in traffic)

Look I am no fan of some of the attitudes you see either. "Dtang Rang" as they say in the south language. As I said they see farangs spending huge sums on grog and women then the same dude gets all moral and righteous about being clipped a few bucks extra on his tuk tuk ride.

Most of the belly-aching you see on this forum only reveals that persons inability to deal with Thais in an appropriate way. Instead of staying cool and negotiating, too many farangs I see just fly off the handle swearing and cursing over perhaps $5 US. Recently I read about that guy who was scared of a Tuk tuk driver who followed him home. Yet, he gave the guy the middle finger!!!

Man, that is like challenging a Thai guy to a fight til the death. It is considered a very serious insult and I have never ever seen a Thai do that in any traffic situation no matter how bad it got. That is a gesture simply not used in normal Thai culture. See most tourists to Patong see loud and obnoxious bar girls copying everything they see on farang movies and think it normal in the rest of Thailand. It aint and could get you killed.

Tuk tuk drivers work long hours in hot conditions and often drive too fast trying to get back to their queue. I just don't use them. I have a number of taxi driver friends who I just phone when needed. Air-con, reasonnable prices and friendly reliable service. They are around if you look for them.

[CaptainZero]

logbags, some of your "history" is plain wrong.

Who taught Thais to sub-divide land and make bars? Barfines?

The first Soi of bars built in Phuket was Soi Crocodile which was originally called Soi Ko Yoi, after the Thai man that owned it. He subdivided it into the bars you see today.

In 1983 all of the bars in Soi Ko Yoi were Thai owned and charging bar-fines.

Your comparison between tuk-tuk drivers and bar-girls is flawed. If a bar-girl's price is too expensive, you can ask another. there is no cartel and price-fixing as there is in the tuk-tuk trade. Bar-girls charge what the market will bear.

There are other inaccuracies in your post, but, I can't be bothered to address them all.

[NamKangMan]

As metioned in a previous post, currently, they are not getting any fares, so, to cruise around all day, and pick up and drop off like a baht bus, has to make more money than maybe getting one naive new tourist for 200 baht and then getting to the back of the que.

Oh I just love Thai-axegrinder.com. You always get so many balanced and informed opinions. I've never seen so many allround infrastructure, transportation, tourist industry and real estate experts located in one forum in my life.

Let's see, you are probably happy to go to bars and pay rip off prices for drinks, you then pay up to 500 baht if you want to take a girl out of the bar, the girl may want anything from 1000 upwards for her company. However you then want to be driven home for 20 baht. 200 baht is very outrageous for a ride home is it. I don't hear you complaining about the Rock City bar charging 200 baht for a small beer

I'll tell you a bit of history. Who did away with full bottle and half bottle mekong being sold in bars and only sold it only in glasses? - farang.

Who introduced bar fines when there never were any? -farang

Who opened Patong's first go go bar with bar fines? -farang

Yes, certain farangs taught many Thai's these gouging methods after bringing them down from Pattaya in the 80's.

Who taught the Thais how to lease and then sub-lease land plots and beer bar sois ? - farang

I can tell you about an American who worked at a law firm in Phuket. He set up just about every lease in Patong. He didn't give a shit as he never lived there.

I had a tuk-tuk driver at my place for cards recently. He said certain farangs complain bitterly about every peceived wrong in Phuket. Yet, never ever hold back on spending thousands on some bar girl from Udon or wherever. They hear the girls and what they really say about their love struck romeo.

The price of 200 baht for anywhere in Patong is a gouge, they admit it. They say "why should all these bar girls make a fortune while we sit around like muppets waiting for a fare then have to fight someone over 50 baht. They see guys happily handing over 2000 baht to some northern farm girl then have the same guy get pissed over his fare.

I know a number of drivers who have wives who work all day as maids in bungalows and then sit by their husband all night while he drives. They see the girls every morning leaving all cashed up yet rarely see a tip or gift from a guest like that. Then you wonder why they get pissed?

Thais are perhaps the most maleable and easy going people around, they are easy to win over and be friends with. They see bar crawlers as hypocrites willing to shell out a fortune on their own selfish gratifications then act like the original cheap charlie when dealing with them.

In 1985 a taxi to the airport from Patong was 500 baht, it still is. Back then 1 Aussie dollar 17-18 baht. U.S dollar was 24 or 25 baht. Now 1 Aussie is 30 baht and U.S 34 baht. A knock off water proof rolex was 500-800 baht. Things are actually much cheaper except farang owned bars like Rock City etc. Man, DVD's are 50 baht now, they used to be at least 100 or more.

In 1985 a tuk tuk to Kata was 700 baht at night after bar time and Surin was 700 and that was <deleted> miles away in those days as there was no ring road by the beach. The price of petrol is five times more expensive now as well.

Patong hasn't changed much at all in 25 years price wise per dollar rate. I have a picture of myself standing outside the Kangaroo bar New Years eve 1985. Apart from the flat screen T.V nothing has changed.

If you got rid of the Burmese, Bangladeshi and Indian suit sellers etc, Patong would still be ok. That to me is the main difference between now and the old days. That and the bar fines. This constant talk of a taxi "mafia" is ill-informed and tedious. These guys just want to protect their living, would you prefer they stopped driving farangs and started robbing them instead? They just want their slice of the tourist pie.

I ran businesses back then. I saw companies like budget and Avis move in, undercut everyone and put a lot of people out of a living. The smart Thais remember these things.

Shame they didn't bring the baht bus down from Pattaya in the 80's. :D Seriously, these tuk-tuk drivers should earn their money, not extort it. I'm dam_n sure all the bar girls you talk about earn every baht back in the hotel room.

Edited January 14, 2010 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

Trying to convince me that the tuk tuk drivers are friendly, courteous, honest, sincere is just not going to change my experience (which was quite the opposite)

Sorry

I wish i could believe this.

Many Thai people do fit the bill (above). Just not any tuk tuk drivers that I have met. (admitting not many except in traffic)

Look I am no fan of some of the attitudes you see either. "Dtang Rang" as they say in the south language. As I said they see farangs spending huge sums on grog and women then the same dude gets all moral and righteous about being clipped a few bucks extra on his tuk tuk ride.

Most of the belly-aching you see on this forum only reveals that persons inability to deal with Thais in an appropriate way. Instead of staying cool and negotiating, too many farangs I see just fly off the handle swearing and cursing over perhaps $5 US. Recently I read about that guy who was scared of a Tuk tuk driver who followed him home. Yet, he gave the guy the middle finger!!!

Man, that is like challenging a Thai guy to a fight til the death. It is considered a very serious insult and I have never ever seen a Thai do that in any traffic situation no matter how bad it got. That is a gesture simply not used in normal Thai culture. See most tourists to Patong see loud and obnoxious bar girls copying everything they see on farang movies and think it normal in the rest of Thailand. It aint and could get you killed.

Tuk tuk drivers work long hours in hot conditions and often drive too fast trying to get back to their queue. I just don't use them. I have a number of taxi driver friends who I just phone when needed. Air-con, reasonnable prices and friendly reliable service. They are around if you look for them.

Please email me the phone number of your taxi driver. You did use the word "reasonable." I'm guessing that's not 200 baht for a 1 km journey, considering it's still only 500 baht (I pay 700 baht) for a trip to the airport. If you read my first post, I pay more for a hotel that is within walking distance - YES - I am paying MORE. I am not cheap charlie. It's just 200 baht to take me to a place that is just out of comfortable walking distance is extortion. Hence, I stay central, but, aren't I now lacking the choice of where I stay, due to the high cost of tuk-tuks. Tuk-tuk to lunch, tuk-tuk to the market, tuk-tuk out to a bar, return, that's 1200 baht, more than my hotel room per night and I have only been driven approximately 8 kms. The only slice of the tourist pie they are getting are the first timers to Thailand, who, no doubt, will not be caught out again. Tell me, how much would your taxi driver charges you for a 1 to 2 km journey? I bet it's not 200 baht, and he has air conditioning.

Edited January 14, 2010 by NamKangMan

[logbags]

[The first Soi of bars built in Phuket was Soi Crocodile which was originally called Soi Ko Yoi, after the Thai man that owned it. He subdivided it into the bars you see today.

@@ Who leased and then sub leased heaps of the bars and land to the likes of the ex pat bar, hotel and co. Was it not Brian who bragged he got Patongs first 30 year lease. I dunno I uee to drink a bit too much then so my memory may be not perfect about the exact details but he single handedly started a lot of shit. I dunno the name of any street or soi except Bangla. I remember Dooleys being built or whatever and Paradise bar was a long walk in those days in the dark

@@ I also remember Lucky Star bar on the beach had a bar fine, it was run by a drunken little Dutch pimp named Wim who ripped all his girls off. Then there was two small Sois of bars of whatever name. I remember boogaloo bar or some others. I can't remember any Sois in Bangla until soi Katoey opened. Jims bars was the last bar in the street if I remember clearly. Jim and Andrew only opened the Kangaroo bar in 1983 and that was there long before soi katoey.

In 1983 all of the bars in Soi Ko Yoi were Thai owned and charging bar-fines.

@@Have no idea of that, never ever paid one ever. Dunno where you are even talking about. The Gonzo was just a big bar when I was there. No soi. There was a German who had a car which was rare, he owned a big bar opposite the kangaroo and was always rumoured to be tooled up. He probably had a bar fine but I never paid one ever anywhere.

Your comparison between tuk-tuk drivers and bar-girls is flawed. If a bar-girl's price is too expensive, you can ask another. there is no cartel and price-fixing as there is in the tuk-tuk trade.

@@So no other country has high fixed taxi rates or taxi drivers flagging a higher rate or leaving the meter off etc. You aint been to Australia then.

Bar-girls charge what the market will bear.

@@ It is probably cheaper now than before with the exchange rate. I don't want to argue over things that are totally subjective. One mans rip off price is another mans bargain. I had a restaurant in Bangla and saw everything nightly. Not a lot has changed in terms of scams.

[LivinLOS]

These guys just want to protect their living, would you prefer they stopped driving farangs and started robbing them instead? They just want their slice of the tourist pie.

So you condone beatings, violence and law breaking to enforce this do you ??

And the fact that this enforcement makes travel incredibly lucrative (for the amount of work) means we now have oversupply that is simply rediculous.. A drive along beach Rd can see 100 plus stationary vehicles, blocking the whole area up and taking away and public spaces.

How about they get a slice of the tourist pie by finding a job and trading a fair service for a fair price ?? One that doesnt require beatings to keep out any alternatives. Thats without even asking why anyone is owed a living (a slice of the pie) for no reason.. If the girls provide a service at a price visitors pay for it, theres 2 willing people on either side of the trade (you hope) thats not how it is with an essential service which has gained a monopoly.

[LivinLOS]

Tuk tuk drivers work long hours in hot conditions and often drive too fast trying to get back to their queue. I just don't use them. I have a number of taxi driver friends who I just phone when needed. Air-con, reasonnable prices and friendly reliable service. They are around if you look for them.

We all would.. But when they are spotted they are either beaten or warned never again..

My buddy was using a service like the above, Thai guy was spotted collared, and now the option is not open to them.. THATS the issue, the use of violence and intimidation, the breaking of the law, to maintain their price structure.

Plenty of other services could operate and make a profit, if only a free market was allowed.

[BillR]

Ive used my staff driving my car several times in patong without any issue many times. The driver gets out opens all the doors etc so its obviously a hired car.

[CaptainZero]

logbags, yes, your memory is indeed fuzzy.

Brian started out leasing the front left bar on Soi Crocodile (Soi Ko Yoi). He first had one unit, then he leased the next one making a double bar. After he sold out, he then made Dooleys which incorporated The Pizza Factory which sold the first pizza in Patong.

He then leased the land at the end of Soi Sunset and built bars. The land belongs to the same owner as the Expat, but, is not the same owner as Soi Ko Yoi.

Soi Ko Yoi was built in 1982, yet you say the Kangaroo bar was opened in 1983, yet, you don't remember Soi Ko Yoi?

Yes, Wim owned the Lucky Star bar. If he was ripping off the girls, then it must run in the blood as he was the father of JJ of jet-ski fame. Wim fell off his motor bike at very low speed and cracked his head on the kerb. He eventually died of his injury.

You're not the only long term resident, but, it seems my memory is better than yours.

Edited January 14, 2010 by CaptainZero

[NamKangMan]

These guys just want to protect their living, would you prefer they stopped driving farangs and started robbing them instead? They just want their slice of the tourist pie.

So you condone beatings, violence and law breaking to enforce this do you ??

And the fact that this enforcement makes travel incredibly lucrative (for the amount of work) means we now have oversupply that is simply rediculous.. A drive along beach Rd can see 100 plus stationary vehicles, blocking the whole area up and taking away and public spaces.

How about they get a slice of the tourist pie by finding a job and trading a fair service for a fair price ?? One that doesnt require beatings to keep out any alternatives. Thats without even asking why anyone is owed a living (a slice of the pie) for no reason.. If the girls provide a service at a price visitors pay for it, theres 2 willing people on either side of the trade (you hope) thats not how it is with an essential service which has gained a monopoly.

Totally agree. This monopoly of the essential service, transport, is hurting all forms of business in the greater Patong area and certainly effecting people's freedom of movement amongst these businesses. Your favourite little cafe that has the best

Pad Thai for lunch at only 80 baht and is 2 kms away is now a 480 baht Pad Thai because you have to get a tuk-tuk there and back, so, you don't go. This tuk-tuk problem is a lot more than just about getting from A to B - it's about delivering the customers to the businesses who are out of walking distance because, once they collapse, and everybody stays within walking distance to the centre, no one will need a tuk-tuk anyway. I think we are starting to see this now.

Edited January 14, 2010 by NamKangMan

[logbags]

Trying to convince me that the tuk tuk drivers are friendly, courteous, honest, sincere is just not going to change my experience (which was quite the opposite)

Sorry

I wish i could believe this.

Many Thai people do fit the bill (above). Just not any tuk tuk drivers that I have met. (admitting not many except in traffic)

Look I am no fan of some of the attitudes you see either. "Dtang Rang" as they say in the south language. As I said they see farangs spending huge sums on grog and women then the same dude gets all moral and righteous about being clipped a few bucks extra on his tuk tuk ride.

Most of the belly-aching you see on this forum only reveals that persons inability to deal with Thais in an appropriate way. Instead of staying cool and negotiating, too many farangs I see just fly off the handle swearing and cursing over perhaps $5 US. Recently I read about that guy who was scared of a Tuk tuk driver who followed him home. Yet, he gave the guy the middle finger!!!

Man, that is like challenging a Thai guy to a fight til the death. It is considered a very serious insult and I have never ever seen a Thai do that in any traffic situation no matter how bad it got. That is a gesture simply not used in normal Thai culture. See most tourists to Patong see loud and obnoxious bar girls copying everything they see on farang movies and think it normal in the rest of Thailand. It aint and could get you killed.

Tuk tuk drivers work long hours in hot conditions and often drive too fast trying to get back to their queue. I just don't use them. I have a number of taxi driver friends who I just phone when needed. Air-con, reasonnable prices and friendly reliable service. They are around if you look for them.

Please email me the phone number of your taxi driver. You did use the word "reasonable." I'm guessing that's not 200 baht for a 1 km journey, considering it's still only 500 baht (I pay 700 baht) for a trip to the airport. If you read my first post, I pay more for a hotel that is within walking distance - YES - I am paying MORE. I am not cheap charlie. It's just 200 baht to take me to a place that is just out of comfortable walking distance is extortion. Hence, I stay central, but, aren't I now lacking the choice of where I stay, due to the high cost of tuk-tuks. Tuk-tuk to lunch, tuk-tuk to the market, tuk-tuk out to a bar, return, that's 1200 baht, more than my hotel room per night and I have only been driven approximately 8 kms. The only slice of the tourist pie they are getting are the first timers to Thailand, who, no doubt, will not be caught out again. Tell me, how much would your taxi driver charges you for a 1 to 2 km journey? I bet it's not 200 baht, and he has air conditioning.

Have you not heard of "shanks pony" -why not just walk. I thought I was Patongs laziest bastard but even I can do a couple of km's nightly. You are playing 'victim' when you have choices. Rent a motorbike, buy a bike at Tesco for 1200 baht and dink your babe home. The greatest pleasure I get is riding the road from Patong to Bang Tao on my bike. I know every crack, bump and pot hole. I nearly crashed last week in Patong on that road behind Carrefour. They aren't pot holes there, they are mine shafts. My number plate fell off and I thought my back was broken.

Seriously just walk, you'll be fitter, trimmer and won't have to put up with the tuk tuks. Put on the Ipod and just smile at the Indians like I do. I just say "yes yes wonderful day" or something silly as I pass. I am only half serious when posting here. This forum is considered a bit of a joke by most people I know who live in Phuket. Only ever bad news and evil Thais ripping off poor old farang etc. Never see a story about all the happy tourists who come year after year having a great time.

I met an american last week and he said to me. You know what I like about Thai Visa.com. I said no, what? He said I just love how you get so many rational, logical, unemotive and balanced people posting on there. You can only laugh....................

[LuckyLew]

Why are you all whining about a 200 baht taxi ride?

You know the price before you get in

So what ......... pay it or walk!!!

200 baht = 6 USD = 4.20 Euros = 3.73 GBP

How much do taxi cost back home?

Cost 3.25 to get in a taxi back in Canada

How the heck can so many people complain about such a little amount

I find it baffling

The taxi meters are no better than the wanke_rs

who charge sevice charges on the bill.

Who they hel_l are they to tell me how much I have

to tip? oh...... so I dont like this .... so I don't go back

to those restaurants

You don't like the fares .... walk but stop complaining about

what is, especially when it is only a couple dollars/euros or quid