Racism In Thailand

[SeanMoran]

That blackboard thing sounds completely idiotic to me.

I wonder what PC name we must use for whiteboards now? We can't exactly call them 'whiteboard-marking-pen boards' without being just as racist as if we did say 'whiteboard' so what adjective is allowable? Texta-boards?

---o0o---

PS: To get back ontopic re: racism in Thailand, these examples of ridiculous extremes of political correctness in some other nations indicate to me that Thailand's approach isn't such a bad thing.

Edited January 19, 2010 by SeanMoran

[bonobo]

If there is racism in Thailand , it can not compare to racism in the U.S.!

Ist the subduing of 20 million Native American, The reduction by death from 20 million when the Europeans landed, to the 2.5 million descendants the total population, that survives today, 120 years after the "Red Skins" wars.

The enslaving of the blacks in the US, and denying Civil Rights to most of the non white population. Then came the Civil Rights Act of 1964 giving Civil and Equal Right ,to all in the U.S., The right to vote,

The Southern US states begin reinforcing the "Felony Desenfranchisement laws (a convict loses his civil rights) in the US ,soon that practise was followed by 46 other states ,Following passage of the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s:

Source

Losing the Vote:The impact of Felony Disenfrachisement Law in...

www.law.harvard.edu/students/.../booknotes-Losing.shtml

The US has the largest Prison population than ,any other country,in the world, 2.4 million prisoners.

Source:

The US Gulag Prison System http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=2113

Incarcerated America, http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

Or just type the titles into google search.

As of today 4 million US convicts have lost the right to vote, ever over minor crimes, The Violent crime rate has fallen since the 1980s Yet more people at being sentence to prison terms for minor infractions of the law. I.4 million black males have lost their right to vote in the U.S.!

The US has hired Corporation to run "For Profit Prisons" in the U.S.!

Source:

Corpwatch:US: America's Private Gulag- www.corpwatch.org>issues>privatization-

If the source will not show, just type the title into Google Search.

Racism in Thailand ,I think not, you only perceive that because of the treatment you feel Thais are doing to you. It is not fun when you are the target (Real or Perceived) of the Discriminatory practices.

Welcome to the Real World!

Cheers:

The topic here is whether there is racism in Thailand.  It is not a platform for starting a US-bashing thread.  you can make your point that racism is not as prevalent, in your opinion, as in other countries, to include the USA, without going into a history lesson which moves the focus from Thailand to the US.

[Eazy-Going]

That blackboard thing sounds completely idiotic to me.

But totally true!!!

[JusMe]

Racism in Thailand ,I think not, you only perceive that because of the treatment you feel Thais are doing to you. It is not fun when you are the target (Real or Perceived) of the Discriminatory practices.

Welcome to the Real World!

Cheers:

Try catching the train between Bangkok and Nam Tok (or stop at Kanchanaburi). Thais pay fares based on distance; falang pay based on their passports! It's a standard one price for any distance on that train, and only because of the official racist policy of the SRT.

Go into some dental clinics and see the separate price lists on the wall, one for Thais and the higher prices for foreigners.

Go to the national parks, museums.

No racism in Thailand? Welcome to the Real World!

[Eazy-Going]

That blackboard thing sounds completely idiotic to me.

I wonder what PC name we must use for whiteboards now? We can't exactly call them 'whiteboard-marking-pen boards' without being just as racist as if we did say 'whiteboard' so what adjective is allowable? Texta-boards?

They must now be called wipe boards, insane but true.

[A_Traveller]

Many years ago there was a brand of toothpaste called Darkie. The logo on the box was a black man with white teeth. The toothpaste is still for sale in Thailand but it is no longer called "Darkie". Same box and logo, different name.

It's now called "Darlie"

On a similar note in the UK we used to have "The Black & White Minstrel Show" and "Robinson Jam Golliwog badges" and both are now gone. So the Thais can be as sensitive to political correctness (racism) as anybody else.

On the last point, not so. The name change was made across Asia after the Taiwanese company was taken over by an American one.

Regards

[jdinasia]

Racism in Thailand ,I think not, you only perceive that because of the treatment you feel Thais are doing to you. It is not fun when you are the target (Real or Perceived) of the Discriminatory practices.

Welcome to the Real World!

Cheers:

Try catching the train between Bangkok and Nam Tok (or stop at Kanchanaburi). Thais pay fares based on distance; falang pay based on their passports! It's a standard one price for any distance on that train, and only because of the official racist policy of the SRT.

Go into some dental clinics and see the separate price lists on the wall, one for Thais and the higher prices for foreigners.

Go to the national parks, museums.

No racism in Thailand? Welcome to the Real World!

:-)

OK ... let's work on this one ... does your RACE matter? or your Nationality? (or possibly your education

The train you mention is the tourist excursion train from HuaLomphong -- the regular train that runs from Bangkok Noi station to Kan is like other trains in Thailand and the price is fixed by the length of travel.

(For that matter it was mentioned about Laotians and Burmese and Khmer and Malaysians earlier in this thread and the majority of them are not only the same RACE as the majority of Thais but also the same ethnicity --- but not the same Nationality)

jd

[tigerfish]

ah! those were the days, love thy neighbour, it aint half hot mum and till death us do part.

funny though these days its o.k. for a black, asian, gay, jewish, disabled, etc... comedian to take the p..., but not a white comedian!

[carmine]

I don't think it's racism, more a case of xenophobia

[dttk0009]

That blackboard thing sounds completely idiotic to me.

I wonder what PC name we must use for whiteboards now? We can't exactly call them 'whiteboard-marking-pen boards' without being just as racist as if we did say 'whiteboard' so what adjective is allowable? Texta-boards?

They must now be called wipe boards, insane but true.

Ugh. Things like this irritate me. Who actually looks back on changes like these and thinks 'I'm really glad they did that'?

Anyway, I would say that Thailand is probably one of the more racist nations I've been to. It is very deeply ingrained in their culture and there are no government programs I know of to curb any form of discrimination, so it looks like it's here to stay. It's pretty hilarious how most tourists don't notice it, because most of the time they are treated like mini-gods upon arrival and are immediately aware that having fair skin is a positive thing here, which carries heavy social implications.

The story Bonobo told earlier was great and just goes to show that we think all is well if nothing affects us. Thailand has real problems in regards to racism.

Edited January 19, 2010 by dttk0009

[bonobo]

:-)

OK ... let's work on this one ... does your RACE matter? or your Nationality? (or possibly your education

The train you mention is the tourist excursion train from HuaLomphong -- the regular train that runs from Bangkok Noi station to Kan is like other trains in Thailand and the price is fixed by the length of travel.

(For that matter it was mentioned about Laotians and Burmese and Khmer and Malaysians earlier in this thread and the majority of them are not only the same RACE as the majority of Thais but also the same ethnicity --- but not the same Nationality)

jd

That last point is a valid one in discussing race.  Just what is "race?"  Classically speaking, at least as described by Coon, we have the five racial groups:  Caucasoid race, Congoid race, Capoid race, Mongoloid race, and the Australoid race.

However, I think the term is a moving target.   It is accepted fact that Hispanics have been subject to racism in the US, for example, and that Caribbean people have been subject to "racism" in the UK, but is that really "racism" or discrimination against a certain ethnicity? I have Hispanic friends who are fair-skinned blondes, darker-skinned whites, native American-types, and blacks.  Are they all the same race?

I think the term "race" is pretty much what you want it to be for a given context.  So while technically not that accurate from a biological taxonomy aspect, I don't have a problem with someone using "racism" to describe various forms of discrimination.

[dutchguest]

I think Thailand is still the most hospitable country in S.E.Asia for foreigners, but of course there are limits to the hospitality.

In the past the Chinese came in great numbers and practically took over the economy. The last decennia westerners come in great numbers and many are marrying a Thai lady/boy. (In the past the last thing a racist or xenophobe white American would do was marrying a black man/woman).

Because of these facts I don't understand the complaints about Thai racism an xenophobia so well. I think it is not their natural attitude, so may be the foreigners should do some introspection.

[jdinasia]

:-)

OK ... let's work on this one ... does your RACE matter? or your Nationality? (or possibly your education

The train you mention is the tourist excursion train from HuaLomphong -- the regular train that runs from Bangkok Noi station to Kan is like other trains in Thailand and the price is fixed by the length of travel.

(For that matter it was mentioned about Laotians and Burmese and Khmer and Malaysians earlier in this thread and the majority of them are not only the same RACE as the majority of Thais but also the same ethnicity --- but not the same Nationality)

jd

That last point is a valid one in discussing race. Just what is "race?" Classically speaking, at least as described by Coon, we have the five racial groups: Caucasoid race, Congoid race, Capoid race, Mongoloid race, and the Australoid race.

However, I think the term is a moving target. It is accepted fact that Hispanics have been subject to racism in the US, for example, and that Caribbean people have been subject to "racism" in the UK, but is that really "racism" or discrimination against a certain ethnicity? I have Hispanic friends who are fair-skinned blondes, darker-skinned whites, native American-types, and blacks. Are they all the same race?

I think the term "race" is pretty much what you want it to be for a given context. So while technically not that accurate from a biological taxonomy aspect, I don't have a problem with someone using "racism" to describe various forms of discrimination.

Sorry, but I don't see how that works in terms of dealing with the xenophobia exhibited in Thailand towards their neighbors that often come not only from the same 'race' but also the same language groupings.

It is a matter of Xenophobia/ingrained ultra-nationalism far more so than a racial issue. One poster mentions national parks and many many of us can tell you that with a Thai DL you almost never pay more than a Thai (and with a Thai ID card denoting Thai citizenship that would drop to NEVER pay more).

Bigotry, xenophobia, decrimination and racism may in fact be related but they are not the same at all.

[thequaife]

it's all depend on how and when to use the word.

please do not get too sensitive. look around and learn the situation before judging into racism

[bonobo]

 

That last point is a valid one in discussing race. Just what is "race?" Classically speaking, at least as described by Coon, we have the five racial groups: Caucasoid race, Congoid race, Capoid race, Mongoloid race, and the Australoid race.

However, I think the term is a moving target. It is accepted fact that Hispanics have been subject to racism in the US, for example, and that Caribbean people have been subject to "racism" in the UK, but is that really "racism" or discrimination against a certain ethnicity? I have Hispanic friends who are fair-skinned blondes, darker-skinned whites, native American-types, and blacks. Are they all the same race?

I think the term "race" is pretty much what you want it to be for a given context. So while technically not that accurate from a biological taxonomy aspect, I don't have a problem with someone using "racism" to describe various forms of discrimination.

Sorry, but I don't see how that works in terms of dealing with the xenophobia exhibited in Thailand towards their neighbors that often come not only from the same 'race' but also the same language groupings.

It is a matter of Xenophobia/ingrained ultra-nationalism far more so than a racial issue. One poster mentions national parks and many many of us can tell you that with a Thai DL you almost never pay more than a Thai (and with a Thai ID card denoting Thai citizenship that would drop to NEVER pay more).

Bigotry, xenophobia, decrimination and racism may in fact be related but they are not the same at all.

No, they are not the same.  Discrimination is not even in the same ballpark--discrimination is what someone might do because of racism, but discrimination is not racism.

Xenophobia is closer to racism, but yes, there are differences.  Ethnocentricity can be closely aligned with racism as well. My point is that I don't get bent out of shape when I hear about "racism" in Germany against the Jews during the war, about "racism" against Hispanics in the US, about "racism" by Hutus against Tutsis in Rwanda even though none of the three examples I just gave are really racism.

[ballpoint]

Anyway, I would say that Thailand is probably one of the more racist nations I've been to...

There are far more racist countries around here, including Malaysia - which goes a step further by practicing religious discrimination along with racism, and also discriminates between the races of its natural born citizens in such matters as business ownership, voting rights and education; Japan - which truely is one of the most racist countries in the world, and even exports its racism to Thailand in the form of Japanese only bars and restaurants; and China - which seems to really believe in its superiority and central position in the world. Further afield you have the Arabic countries - much of their racism is directed at Indians and Pakistanis, but other races are also openly looked down on, and they too practice religious intolerance, particularly Saudi Arabia; and much of Africa, which has swung from white against black racism, full circle to black racism against white, and black against black "tribalism". Thailand is on the whole pretty average. It does win points on the lack of religious discrimination, and loses them on foreign land ownership, visa restrictions on foreigners married to Thais, and double pricing. Although these are more nationalist, as they distinguish between Thais and non Thais, rather than race against race, and the double pricing example could be thought similar to me, as a non UK citizen, being charged for a visit to an NHS hospital in the UK that would be free to a UK citizen.

Edited January 19, 2010 by ballpoint

[tigerfish]

Anyway, I would say that Thailand is probably one of the more racist nations I've been to...

There are far more racist countries around here, including Malaysia - which goes a step further by practicing religious discrimination along with racism, and also discriminates between the races of its natural born citizens in such matters as business ownership, voting rights and education; Japan - which truely is one of the most racist countries in the world, and even exports its racism to Thailand in the form of Japanese only bars and restaurants; and China - which seems to really believe in its superiority and central position in the world. Further afield you have the Arabic countries - much of their racism is directed at Indians and Pakistanis, but other races are also openly looked down on, and they too practice religious intolerance, particularly Saudi Arabia; and much of Africa, which has swung from white against black racism, full circle to black racism against white, and black against black "tribalism". Thailand is on the whole pretty average. It does win points on the lack of religious discrimination, and loses them on foreign land ownership, visa restrictions on foreigners married to Thais, and double pricing. Although, double pricing is more nationalist, as it distinguishes between Thais and non Thais, rather than race against race, and could be thought similar to me, as a non UK citizen, being charged for a visit to an NHS hospital in the UK that would be free to a UK citizen.

because british nationals pay what is called"national insurance contributions" through their wages!

[anchan42]

But if you ask THais (which I have) they revered the swasika because of hitler. Why? Because he was a powerful leader.

None of the Thais I know would say that. I would be careful of the company I kept.

I've just returned from Au manao Wing 5 base where we took some kids to the museum which explained in part WW2 and who was against who. later the same day a teenager when asked to make a presentation about what they had learned, opened his address with a Nazi Salute. He thought this was "cool". Another teacher explained privately why it wasn't and he was close to tears when he realised the implications. The other teacher was very gentle in her explanation but the reality sank in and this kid finally had a small understanding of the war and its implications for Thais.

Well done for the teachers. We could do with a few more teachers like that in Thailand.

[ballpoint]

because british nationals pay what is called"national insurance contributions" through their wages!

Precisely, and the rationale for double pricing in Thailand is that Thai's pay taxes which are used for the upkeep of national parks, historical sites etc. Granted, this doesn't apply to private businesses using double pricing, but as someone mentioned, if you prove you are a resident you usually get charged the Thai price. If not, then no body's forcing you to enter thr place.

[hammered]

I could think of a few TV threads where extreme levels of racism and xenophobia are noticeable

[whistleblower]

Anyway, I would say that Thailand is probably one of the more racist nations I've been to...

There are far more racist countries around here, including Malaysia - which goes a step further by practicing religious discrimination along with racism, and also discriminates between the races of its natural born citizens in such matters as business ownership, voting rights and education; Japan - which truely is one of the most racist countries in the world, and even exports its racism to Thailand in the form of Japanese only bars and restaurants; and China - which seems to really believe in its superiority and central position in the world. Further afield you have the Arabic countries - much of their racism is directed at Indians and Pakistanis, but other races are also openly looked down on, and they too practice religious intolerance, particularly Saudi Arabia; and much of Africa, which has swung from white against black racism, full circle to black racism against white, and black against black "tribalism". Thailand is on the whole pretty average. It does win points on the lack of religious discrimination, and loses them on foreign land ownership, visa restrictions on foreigners married to Thais, and double pricing. Although these are more nationalist, as they distinguish between Thais and non Thais, rather than race against race, and the double pricing example could be thought similar to me, as a non UK citizen, being charged for a visit to an NHS hospital in the UK that would be free to a UK citizen.

cant agree with you there. You get charged in an nhs hospital as a non uk citizen because all british citizens pay national insurance that goes to providing the NHS. If your a non uk citizen you dont pay contributions therefore you dont qualify for free treatment.

[dmax]

dam or(see dam) means black, black or chocolate is your skin colour, what would you have them say ? same way they call us foreigners " falang " sounds derogatory sometimes but what else do they say to describe us ?

[kiwiinasia]

Thais might be racist but at least they are nice about it.

[SeanMoran]

Thais might be racist but at least they are nice about it.

Nice and honest and realistic. At least here they still have blackboards and whiteboards, although it would be nice to have more air-cond in blackboard classrooms.

There are also a lot more foreigners here now than Thailand needs, and we're all tarred with the same brush at first glance, so it's IMHO just a reaction to preserve a traditional culture that most people, including some of us visitors, would not want to see overrun by people who look like me.

I know when I'm not wanted, and don't take it personally. It's not about me, but about my race. This might be my last chance to do something good for Thailand, by leaving, and reducing the numbers of foreigners that seem to have increased in the last few years around the places I've been.

[apetley]

There are also a lot more foreigners here now than Thailand needs, and we're all tarred with the same brush at first glance, so it's IMHO just a reaction to preserve a traditional culture that most people, including some of us visitors, would not want to see overrun by people who look like me.

I know when I'm not wanted, and don't take it personally. It's not about me, but about my race. This might be my last chance to do something good for Thailand, by leaving, and reducing the numbers of foreigners that seem to have increased in the last few years around the places I've been.

Who says your not wanted?

What about all the farang married to ethnic Thais?

Who is to say that they are not wanted? Are their Thai wifes guilty of not preserving traditional culture by marrying a farang?

[ballpoint]

cant agree with you there. You get charged in an nhs hospital as a non uk citizen because all british citizens pay national insurance that goes to providing the NHS. If your a non uk citizen you dont pay contributions therefore you dont qualify for free treatment.

And foreigners get charged more to enter a Thai national park because all Thais (with some notable exceptions) pay taxes that are used for their upkeep. If you're a non Thai they assume you don't pay taxes, therefore you don't get the discount. If you show you are a resident, by use of a local driver's license or a yellow tabian bahn, you usually do get the discount. As I said in an earlier post, this doesn't apply to private businesses, who are out to make a fast buck, but usually they too will give the discount to a resident. If not, you can take your money elsewhere.

[Jingthing]

There is racism in every country. So of course there is racism in Thailand. To assert differently is to claim Thais aren't human, and that would be very racist.

[SeanMoran]

1. Who says your not wanted?

2. What about all the farang married to ethnic Thais?

3. Who is to say that they are not wanted?

4. Are their Thai wifes guilty of not preserving traditional culture by marrying a farang?

1. Three years ago, it used to be something I sensed in Nonthaburi and Bangkok, but still felt welcome back in the rural places like Nikhom Pattana. Now that sign has spread to the villages, although there are complex reasons for it.

2. I'm not going to marry someone who loves my money more than me. I believe that it takes at least twelve months for a proper courtship ritual to take place in Thai society, and the most they'll give me here is six. Forget it.

3. I hear that a common occupation amongst young blokes in Issan over the past decade or so is to sit around all afternoon drinking M150 or enjoying the yaba or whatever they can to try to forget about the girls they fell in love with in high-school who took off to Pattaya or Cowboy or Nana to get rich on the back of some tourist, but this is just a rumour that is oft mentioned on Internet forums. Remember that one man's gain is another man's loss.

4. I cannot answer that question.

To get back ontopic, it's not explicitly racism so much as that same patriotism I used to feel about Australia before it all went to buggery, and these hard times that seem to be inviting me to leave Thailand are based around the need to preserve the culture and society that has been gradually torn down piece by piece over the last 30 or 40 years. I got here too late. Let's hope Myanmar and Bangladesh don't have to survive the influx of foreign culture that Thailand has had to find a way to overcome, and that Thailand never ends up the multicultural wasteland that Australia has turned into.

That's why I came back here, so that's why soon I'll have to go.

[Tanaka]

But if you ask THais (which I have) they revered the swasika because of hitler. Why? Because he was a powerful leader.

I've just returned from Au manao Wing 5 base where we took some kids to the museum which explained in part WW2 and who was against who. later the same day a teenager when asked to make a presentation about what they had learned, opened his address with a Nazi Salute. He thought this was "cool". Another teacher explained privately why it wasn't and he was close to tears when he realised the implications. The other teacher was very gentle in her explanation but the reality sank in and this kid finally had a small understanding of the war and its implications for Thais.

Why did the teachers explain to the boy in private? Why was the class prevented from learning more about the history?

[Tanaka]

Loz,, quote/ I'm curious as how Non thais and thais that use this forum feel and think about racism here. I know the west is oft accused of being overly PC but I think common decency requires people not to call black skinned people, "Nico", "Dam", or "Chocolate man" or anything else derogatory simply on the basis of skin color. If they are an out and out twunt, maybe its more excusable.

Why is it do you suppose thai kids are not pulled up when they commit these social faux pas?

I suspect its cos parents think its ok. When I run into the odd parent who does not think its ok, they just look shameful and withdraw. No sign of schooling the child though.

Given that I've had heads of Language departments make jokes about not being able to see me during a mid day power cut, I am given to believe that its not just a "kiddy" problem.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Why hasn't thailand caught on to the fact that racism is not a good thing? unquote/

Why is it that most thais have no idea about the world except possibly the countries sharing Thailand' boundaries? Nor do they seem to want to learn more.