Red-Shirt Movement 'At War With Military'

[SomTumTiger]

You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately.

Edited January 23, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[BlackJack]

what this town needs is a good enema

[chutai]

Thaksin tried to gather the sympathy of western democracies to support his so called pro democracy movement.

I'm not sure that his touting credibility went far as as to tout support for the pro-democracy movement. Wasn't that the name given to the 'yellow shirts' when Thaksin was PM?

But yes, I'm cynical enough to believe that his ownership of Manchester City FC, for instance, was a political expediecy, as I believe that he invested his own money into the club. Which then lost s considerable amount of money, and I assume Thaksin did also, even though it was eventually sold on for some £200m, sterling. He did try to raise his own profile , true, and perhaps his eventual agenda went further ? But the fact remains that he miscalculated and failed in any such objectives.

Yet he can't travel to those very same western countries.

But haven't both the UK and America refused to extradite him ?

The reds do care to get western support. They have failed miserably, and deservedly so. Thaksin has repeatedly tried to paint himself as some kind of Thai Mandella. Nobody in the west is buying that for a second.

Ultimately , of course they do. Thailand is a relatively small but integrated part of the global economy. But did the 'yellow shirts' give a toss about western opinion when they effectively held thousands of tourists ransom at the airport -- causing the economy to lose millions and of which the consequences are still being felt ? It seems to me that very few in Thailand calculate that far ahead anyway. It's the present situation that is of primary importance.

But as for Thaksin trying to portray himself as another Nelson Mandela, I don't think that'd work -- even if it was the case.

[SabaiBKK]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

what he said ....

this is high treason, an open act of rebellion ... not firing squad but life in jail would be appropriate

[chutai]

Is there not another position, in so much that to have sympathy for the red shirts is also to oppose dictaotrships that came to power by using semi-terroristic means ?

If you oppose dictatorships i think it would be hard to have any sympathy for a group that strives to whitewash a criminal of all charges and have him lead the country.

If those charges related to human rights, then they'd have my wholehearted support, without reservation. But as those charges relate to corruption and fraud in a semi-feudal and corrupt society from top down, then I take all that as being a stick for which to beat the horse , whilst throwing stones in glasshouses.

[Insight]

But haven't both the UK and America refused to extradite him ?

And in that light, North Korea has refused to extradite me Nice one Kim.

[SabaiBKK]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

While I agree with practically everything you say here, I don't think this particular guy or his threats are much help to 'the cause'. How many of those soldier boys come from Yellow Shirt families (where their naes even in the lottery bin?). The red shirts (hate that name too) really need to rally behind a decent leader, not a wanted ex-PM who no one seriously belives is in it for Thailand, and not some self appointed warlord either. There must be someone in their camp thay can be brought to the fore wiothout the baggage of corruption that can make it a real force to be reckonedwith (and I mean political not militarial).

Ditto to comments on the well-written narrative in post 61. Believe the cause of the "reds" was clearly defined.

But agreed that a self-appointed warlord is not the way to go when suppressed. If there indeed are a majority of "reds" who are tired of the elitist actions of the "yellows", then a more civil...and perhaps more effective...way to manage the discrepancies in proper representation across the country is to have a leader who is democratically nominated and supported on behalf of the majority "reds".

As the last post mentioned, a self appointed warlord will not win friends or allegiance to your cause by the masses regardless of whether your cause is just...especially in Thailand.

At some point we need to achieve "orange"...which is what happens when homogeneous democratically mixing of "yellows" and "reds" occurs in a civil non-confrontational environment.

how can anyone with half a brain or at least 9 months gestation take side with either the reds or the yellow ? especially how any farang can take side with these xenophobic facists is blowing my mind ( yes bot red and yellow are xenophobic AND facists )....... these people just agitate, they propose no alternative, no solution,they have no brains whatsoever and do not care about Thailand , they care about their bank accounts ....... they spend all their energy just to dig dirt on their opponent, meanwhile the country is sinking deeper .....

[silentnine]

"We are now at war"

Banner for Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol's website

http://board.sae-dang.com/Topics.php

its amazing how some sites on the internet are censored by big broter. and sites like that are allowed to give free speech.

[aanon]

From Thairat.co.th leading stories (http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/60592). This is after the report covers Seh Daeng talking about other issues, including where he is now, and why:

My translation:

Besides this, Maj Gen Khattiya announced that he had appointed himself as the head of the redshirts' armed forces but gave an assurance that his intention was not to use the armed forces to perpetrate violence or to clash with the Army's forces, but merely to avoid clashes between the redshirts' armed forces and principal [Army] forces.

This puts a different (perhaps less sensational) spin on the story.

It does? after a declaration of war?

Well, I just read through a whole bunch of stories from the Thai media written in the last few days about Seh Daeng, warrants against him, his house being searched, personal issues with Anupong, and so on. I was expecting to see this "declaration of war" mentioned in all the articles, but didn't see it anywhere except in this short Nation piece we're discussing. Can somebody please help with a link to what he actually said in Thai? Not that I don't trust the Nation...

[Junglejumbo]

This could be good news if his declaration polarizes the military away from supporing the red shirts because that is of couse where the risk of civil war is. Most soldiers are from the north or nort-east and probably support or sympathise with the red shirts so Sae Daeng may just have declared war on his potential conspirers.

His trip to Hat Yai is actually a bit more worringly as he probably has some connections with the muslim terrorists down there. It was under rather suspicious circumstances that these terrorists first got their hands on weapons most of which came from military stocks in the South including Hat Yai. Sae Daeng may be looking to start a gorrilla style upset in Bangkok using Bombs or grenades which would be a pittiful outcome and destroy the economy here also.

[jontom]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

When was Thailand ever or even close to being a democracy? How many Military Coups with the Elites blessing have there been in the last 50 years ? You are right about controlling the feelings of Nationalism if you doubt this look aroung Bangkok and wonder how much the ever present Nationalistic propoganda must cost and who pays for it.Thaksin is unpopular for many reasons but the ethnic Chinese elite in Bangkok were as you rightly point out horrified at a politician giving the underclasses some political aspirations of their own hence his downfall. The interesting thing will be to see what will happen in a country made up of haves and have nots, if history is anything to go by it could get messy!

[Unfaithful]

So, don't take the Nation's word for it.Check alternate sources - English, Thai, Burmese, etc.Ask Thais.If the general said it, catch him, try him, and execute his sentence.

[slim]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

Excellent post.

I have no love for Thaksin but I have even less love for countries that ride rough shod over democracy. In the 2001 elections in Thailand Thai Ruk Thai won 248 seats - the Democrats 128.

The 2005 elections which saw the biggest voter turnout in Thai history (and please, dont you write in explaining that Thaksin bought all his votes which has to be one of the most offensive remarks to the Thai public apart from being childishly niaive) TRT won 375 seats to the Democrats 96.

The 2006 elections saw TRT win 460 seats in an election the Democrats boycotted.

Thats when the army staged their coup and it was decided by the courts (Democrats) that TRT were guilty of corruption and forced to disband and its members barred from holding office.

The 2007 election with the newly formed P.P.P. won 233 seats against the Democrats 165.

So the current government has NO mandate from the people to govern although constitutionally their hold on power is legitimate (entirely thorough alliances with other parties).

Its also worth remembering that it was Thaksin's opponents who bought corruption charges against him and the courts (all of whom are Democrats) found against him.

Whats even more laughable is the actual charge of corruption. Accusing a Thai politician of being corrupt is akin to accusing Tiger Woods of being unfaithful.

[jasonstod]

Yeah, so last time i checked in a Democracy, people just don't self appoint themselves to anything...lol Can we get a recount on this vote???

[hammered]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

When was Thailand ever or even close to being a democracy? How many Military Coups with the Elites blessing have there been in the last 50 years ? You are right about controlling the feelings of Nationalism if you doubt this look aroung Bangkok and wonder how much the ever present Nationalistic propoganda must cost and who pays for it.Thaksin is unpopular for many reasons but the ethnic Chinese elite in Bangkok were as you rightly point out horrified at a politician giving the underclasses some political aspirations of their own hence his downfall. The interesting thing will be to see what will happen in a country made up of haves and have nots, if history is anything to go by it could get messy!

Is there really any need for xenophobic stereotyping?

[hammered]

From Thairat.co.th leading stories (http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/60592). This is after the report covers Seh Daeng talking about other issues, including where he is now, and why:

My translation:

Besides this, Maj Gen Khattiya announced that he had appointed himself as the head of the redshirts' armed forces but gave an assurance that his intention was not to use the armed forces to perpetrate violence or to clash with the Army's forces, but merely to avoid clashes between the redshirts' armed forces and principal [Army] forces.

This puts a different (perhaps less sensational) spin on the story.

It does? after a declaration of war?

Well, I just read through a whole bunch of stories from the Thai media written in the last few days about Seh Daeng, warrants against him, his house being searched, personal issues with Anupong, and so on. I was expecting to see this "declaration of war" mentioned in all the articles, but didn't see it anywhere except in this short Nation piece we're discussing. Can somebody please help with a link to what he actually said in Thai? Not that I don't trust the Nation...

If you are adept at Thai I would suggest going to Thai webboards and asking around. There is a lot more doscussion on such issues on these than on TV and they are more likely to be able to answer your question.

[Trebelone]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

I think its about time us Farang kept out of Thai politic,s,and making comments they know nothing about....I,m not going to take sides only to say this,when Thaskin was over thrown by the military, the only response from the USA, was to halt military aid,perhaps people forget Honduras?

Sanctions, and so forth,Thaskin WAS LEGALLY ELECTED and it should have been up to the Thai people to vote him out if they so wished,the current Thai P.M. hasnt been elected by the people,incidently neither has Gordon Brown of the UK.

The current political impasse isnt going to be sorted out anytime soon,those that organised and took part in removing Thaskin, should be brought to book and not allowed to retire or whatever, perhaps they also should have ALL their assets seized until they have explained where in the Military code it says you can over throw an elected government.

Unfortunately in Thailand the military over the years have removed various elected officials and i can not see them changing anytime soon.

[jontom]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

When was Thailand ever or even close to being a democracy? How many Military Coups with the Elites blessing have there been in the last 50 years ? You are right about controlling the feelings of Nationalism if you doubt this look aroung Bangkok and wonder how much the ever present Nationalistic propoganda must cost and who pays for it.Thaksin is unpopular for many reasons but the ethnic Chinese elite in Bangkok were as you rightly point out horrified at a politician giving the underclasses some political aspirations of their own hence his downfall. The interesting thing will be to see what will happen in a country made up of haves and have nots, if history is anything to go by it could get messy!

Is there really any need for xenophobic stereotyping?

If this is a reference to ethnic Chinese this is a fact. Bangkok was originally formed by Ethnic Chinese people(source Lonely planet guide to Bangkok) I work with rich Thais in Bangkok and 99% are part Chinese. Take a look at the Yellowshirts and try to spot the suntan I don't think you will find one they are as white skinned as the actors in Thai advertising campaigns. I don't like xenophobia myself but in this case it is a fact.

[Acharn]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

If the firing squad was the response in Thailand for treason then the coup leaders of 2006 would have been executed long ago, along with....oh well better not go there.

But it's not the Thai way.

Well, after the Boworadej Rebellion in 1933 many of the rebels were sentenced to life in prison. I think there were a couple of unsuccessful attempts under Sarit where he executed a couple of people, but you're right, generally unsuccessful coup attempts do no worse than delay your political career. A fine example is MAJ GEN Manoonkrit Roopkachorn , who as LTC Manoon participated in the failed coup against Prem April 1st 1981. Not satisfied with that, he led another unsuccessful coup in September 1985. That one was unusual in that there was actual bloodshed, although the only fatalities were foreigners. He not only kept getting promoted in the Army, he got appointed a Senator for his outstancing loyalty.

[Botho]

This is out of The Nation! Typical!

Do not believe the news media, here.

It is part of the strategy against the Red Shirts from government side.

As I said. Do not believe these censored news media!!!

[Jingthing]

This is out of The Nation! Typical!

Do not believe the news media, here.

It is part of the strategy against the Red Shirts from government side.

As I said. Do not believe these censored news media!!!

And we should believe you?

[hammered]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

When was Thailand ever or even close to being a democracy? How many Military Coups with the Elites blessing have there been in the last 50 years ? You are right about controlling the feelings of Nationalism if you doubt this look aroung Bangkok and wonder how much the ever present Nationalistic propoganda must cost and who pays for it.Thaksin is unpopular for many reasons but the ethnic Chinese elite in Bangkok were as you rightly point out horrified at a politician giving the underclasses some political aspirations of their own hence his downfall. The interesting thing will be to see what will happen in a country made up of haves and have nots, if history is anything to go by it could get messy!

Is there really any need for xenophobic stereotyping?

If this is a reference to ethnic Chinese this is a fact. Bangkok was originally formed by Ethnic Chinese people(source Lonely planet guide to Bangkok) I work with rich Thais in Bangkok and 99% are part Chinese. Take a look at the Yellowshirts and try to spot the suntan I don't think you will find one they are as white skinned as the actors in Thai advertising campaigns. I don't like xenophobia myself but in this case it is a fact.

The ethnic Chinese are spread all over Thailand and intermarried immensley. The yellow demos were full of dark skinned Thais if you cared to look particularly in the latter days. The red shirts have their own fair share of Sino-Thais and this has increased if anything recently. Indeed what is Thaksin and many of the red leadership? The Sino-Thais have been at the bitter end of Thai nationalism in the past oddly enough including by some of Thaksins own allies!

Sorry but it is more complicated than you write and not "fact" as you say.

[hammered]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

If the firing squad was the response in Thailand for treason then the coup leaders of 2006 would have been executed long ago, along with....oh well better not go there.

But it's not the Thai way.

Well, after the Boworadej Rebellion in 1933 many of the rebels were sentenced to life in prison. I think there were a couple of unsuccessful attempts under Sarit where he executed a couple of people, but you're right, generally unsuccessful coup attempts do no worse than delay your political career. A fine example is MAJ GEN Manoonkrit Roopkachorn , who as LTC Manoon participated in the failed coup against Prem April 1st 1981. Not satisfied with that, he led another unsuccessful coup in September 1985. That one was unusual in that there was actual bloodshed, although the only fatalities were foreigners. He not only kept getting promoted in the Army, he got appointed a Senator for his outstancing loyalty.

And now has been welcomed into the extended family of Thaksin loyalists.

[BlueSmurf]

Please this is surely going to make the baht nosedive...!!!! 100baht to the pound here we come!lol Me thinks this fella has had too many rice whiskies

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

Present arms ! I am with you.

[SabaiBKK]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

Excellent post.

I have no love for Thaksin but I have even less love for countries that ride rough shod over democracy. In the 2001 elections in Thailand Thai Ruk Thai won 248 seats - the Democrats 128.

The 2005 elections which saw the biggest voter turnout in Thai history (and please, dont you write in explaining that Thaksin bought all his votes which has to be one of the most offensive remarks to the Thai public apart from being childishly niaive) TRT won 375 seats to the Democrats 96.

The 2006 elections saw TRT win 460 seats in an election the Democrats boycotted.

Thats when the army staged their coup and it was decided by the courts (Democrats) that TRT were guilty of corruption and forced to disband and its members barred from holding office.

The 2007 election with the newly formed P.P.P. won 233 seats against the Democrats 165.

So the current government has NO mandate from the people to govern although constitutionally their hold on power is legitimate (entirely thorough alliances with other parties).

Its also worth remembering that it was Thaksin's opponents who bought corruption charges against him and the courts (all of whom are Democrats) found against him.

Whats even more laughable is the actual charge of corruption. Accusing a Thai politician of being corrupt is akin to accusing Tiger Woods of being unfaithful.

may i remind you that Hitler was "democratically" elected too .... don't you wish the Germans overthrew him when it was still possible ? Thaksin was a cancer for Thailand, a self serving miscreant who gave to the poor with the right hand to better take from them with his left hand ..... its not because a majority of the voters are brainwashed by populist propaganda that the "elected" leader is not a dangerous one for the country .... it was so obvious ( at least if you have half a brain and can understand what is going on) that Thaksin and his mafia style government were blindly robbing Thailand dry.... Thais should forget about Thaksin and move on .... give a chance to Abhisit until next elections at least to be able to make a bilan at some point ..... but they should reject all the old dinosaurs of thai politics and ask for new blood ........ one thing you have to understand about Thailand is that being a politician here is not by ideology , its just a business .... the PM sells the ministry posts to whom can afford to pay the most ..... then they have to be corrupt if they want to recoup their investments ..... please read monsoon country and the force of kharma from issan author Pira Sudham .... you may well learn something or two ....

Edited January 23, 2010 by SabaiBKK

[mrdome]

[...] But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions. [...]

I am sorry but as someone who lived in a Thaksin ruled Thailand for over 4 years, you are oversimplifying and imho, not correct. He was/is as xenophobic as it comes. The suggestion that things would be easier for foreigners in Thailand under a red shirt rule cannot be made at this point.

Regardless of yellow or red, foreign cash in the form of high spending tourists or investors in majority Thai owned companies is welcome, just don't ask for much more.

[DP25]

He's going to start his campaign in the anti Thaksin pro democrat stronghold of Hat Yai? An area with tens of thousands Thai troops present? Yeah, that's going to work real well with him. He's almost as delusional as his puppet master.

[MUYTHAI]

is that the first step to a civil war? Army fight against Army?

If it is you and Wyatt go ahead and I'll catch up with you later

This guy sounds like he has a death wish and I'm surprised Thailand allows comments like this to reach the newspapers.

Can just imagine the potential tourist's reaction to this breaking news.

Yeah, I am also surprized that Thailand allows these comments because I know Thailand is not a democracy with true freedom.

Yes, the poor, poor potential tourists. I feel so bad for the poor potential tourists. Where will they go now? I feel so very sorry for them. We must all think of the welfare of the potential tourist. Only the tourists matter. Only the tourists matter and all Thais should conform to the tourists culture and lifestyle and the poor tourist should demand that Thais do as the tourist believe they should. Oh My Buddha, I can just imagine what the potential tourist reaction will be to this "breaking news".

[Supernova]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

The Red Shirt movement goes way beyond Thaksin. I've been saying this for a long time now...

An excellent post. Well done, HowardV.