Red-Shirt Movement 'At War With Military'

[gemini81]

According to the nation, he's hiding out in a low key place in South Thailand. Like Thaksin, running away from your problems doesn't make you appear innocent whatsoever.

[jdinasia]

So you are saying that Thaksin is dark-skinned?

Not at all! This is NOT about Thaksin and the monarchy, this is about democracy and the old archaic system of patron-client relationships. It is about one group of people wanting to preserve a way of life for themselves at the expense of the rest of the country. It is the age-old class war.

Thaksin bought and totally surrounded himself with the top of the 'old archaic system' from the areas he won in .... again you have it all wrong Thaksin's regional leaders were the same political bosses that had been and still are part of the political machine in their provinces. They are the 'old guard' and they are wealthy. elite:elite and nothing else to it.

[Jonathanpattaya]

So, are we to expect anarchy, terrorism or worse.

Thailand just doesn't need or deserve this sort of confusing scaremongering.

[Meridian007]

"I appointed myself a leader of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship"

How very democratic.

That's is the brand of Democracy that he and his boss want to bring to Thailand. If you think the current government has no legitimacy, "you ain't seen nothin yet!" At least right now you have the freedom to complain, forget about that if any of these crazies get anywhere near to power.

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship - from the same fevered minds that brought you such Democratic greats as: The Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea, The Democratic Party of Turkmenistan, and The Democratic Republic of the Congo!

Maybe Khattiya will ride in on his white horse to "save" Thailand!

Edited January 23, 2010 by Meridian007

[mommysboy]

There's a lot of talk, whereas action seems to have dwindled.

Too bad for Thailand, the junta has won.

Next stop, ruination.

[brahmburgers]

It also affords an opp for Thaksin to appear like a peacemaker, when he inevitably will come out and something like, "Although my supporters enthusiasm for me is appreciated, violence is not the way." ....it's an image builder for T, who knows the nutcase officer can't do anything worthwhile with his infantile quixotic behavior.

Not a whole lot different than the political theater in Cambodia recently, where a Thai working there was officially accused of being a spy, and threatened with many years in prison. Then, after making the poor guy sweat it out for a couple days in jail, the Cambodian leader forgives him in a big photo-op, and thereby puts himself on a pedestal showing what a big-hearted forgiving guy he is.

[monkfish]

Is this another The Nation exclusive story?

wow how do they do it?

[BSJ]

Wikipedia:Today the Royal Thai Armed Forces comprises about 306,600 personnel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Armed_Forces

Seriously, there is unlikely to be anything big happening. Maybe a few shots fired from the Red shirt ranks...or a grenade lobbed somewhere. But a well structured organisation like the Thai army is hardly going to loose any sleep over the ravings of someone who maybe a bit loony.

When the Red shirts have 25000 men under arms, medium and heavy support weapons and a couple of months supply of munitions...then you worry. But exactly where do you hid that many men and that much material?

[bkkbrad]

If that was true then I would bet that the Thai army wins with Red-shirt fighters. Also this man is not helping the case of Khun Thaksin. This can only make a lot of people angry. I would not like to see what would happen to the tourism industry and the stock market if there was a domestic war.

Let's pray for peace

Not helping Khun Thaksin's case??..Wake up and smell the coffee..If this is true, who do you think would be funding this renegade?

[LukDod]

I've enjoyed read some excellent and enlightening responses to Thailand's latest fiasco.

I wonder though...

Is this a case of "The Mouse that Roared"

or will there be a "Shootout at the Somtam Corral"

[jdinasia]

I've enjoyed read some excellent and enlightening responses to Thailand's latest fiasco.

I wonder though...

Is this a case of "The Mouse that Roared"

or will there be a "Shootout at the Somtam Corral"

Seh Daeng has a history of issuing threats that come true.

[elcent]

the way I see it is that it is not an immediate danger yet, The worrying part is that the tone's getting harsher. This could finally lead to extreme violence.

One must also consider the economical hardship, which makes it easy to recruit for violence.

"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."

Lao-Tze

[OKF]

hm, a lot of talk about democracy about the red and the yellow shirts and who is the good and the bad guys. By the end of the day you all talk about the so called 'Kingdom of Thailand'....

[monkfish]

Pretty much the way I see it too.

But newspapers making up stories like this ain't going to help anyone.

Seriously though can anybody back up this story with a serious sources?

In fact I think it is disgusting and only intended to cause Anger and Hate.

Edited January 23, 2010 by monkfish

[oops]

WHEW HEWWWWWWWW!    

[rainman]

When the Red shirts have 25000 men under arms, medium and heavy support weapons and a couple of months supply of munitions...then you worry. But exactly where do you hid that many men and that much material?

Behind Tuk-Tuk's and a water buffalo.

[oops]

Does anyone know where the circus is..?

Ask someone in the a red shirt....AHHHa ha ha ahahaahhaa

[Fishbucket]

This "exclusive" just is another bit of propoganda against the "freedom fighters".

Take a rain check on the amount of elite driven propoganda coming out of the "free media"

Every article is a one view stoker.

How can you believe, or take serious , any article coming from "state controlled press".

Especially in a country with such a shocking , internationally condemmed human rights record.

[jdinasia]

This "exclusive" just is another bit of propoganda against the "freedom fighters".

Take a rain check on the amount of elite driven propoganda coming out of the "free media"

Every article is a one view stoker.

How can you believe, or take serious , any article coming from "state controlled press".

Especially in a country with such a shocking , internationally condemmed human rights record.

funny

Not exactly erudite nor factual but hey ... The guy calls into a public radio show and still people complain

Now about Press freedom ... that was one of the major areas that the big boss of the Reds was condemned for by everyone. The press certainly has more freedom now than it did with Thaksin at the helm!

[ramsesxix]

If that was true then I would bet that the Thai army wins with Red-shirt fighters. Also this man is not helping the case of Khun Thaksin. This can only make a lot of people angry. I would not like to see what would happen to the tourism industry and the stock market if there was a domestic war.

Let's pray for peace

Praying won't do any good.

nor will being a prick to those who who believe in a spiritual realm.

[ramsesxix]

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

I have no opinion on the red shirt/ yellow shirt thing. But I will make 2 observations: 1. Your English is very good, meaning you know about as much as any other farang. No matter how long you have been here, it doesn't matter; 2. by 'getting your democracy back' do you mean, re-instate your right to sell your vote to the highest bidder?

IDK

[bangon04]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

Does seem that way. Declaring war against your own army / country. Presumably all officers swear an oath of allegiance to the State and to the Monarch. And by the way, who is the ceremonial Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces in Thailand?

[rixalex]

It didn't happen that way. That 'due process' never happened. The man in question didn't flee the country. Thaksin left for a UN meeting and the military staged a coup. Thaksin never returned, so it was impossible for him to flee after a guilty verdict was reached through due process, because the verdict was reached after the coup and after he never came back.

... and, with that nonsense, bang goes any credibility you ever had on this forum.

[bangon04]

When the Red shirts have 25000 men under arms, medium and heavy support weapons and a couple of months supply of munitions...then you worry. But exactly where do you hid that many men and that much material?

Behind Tuk-Tuk's and a water buffalo.

or it just might be a few divisions of the Royal Thai Army which change the badges of their uniforms.....given the right incentives

[Hugh Jarse]

His website is hosted in Thailand. Why doesn't the Gov take it down?

Because they aspire to a democratic system of governance perhaps?.and need to show that they are trying to behave in a like way. If you crush free speech then there is little hope of fruitful change. All societies have their outspoken critics (some may say nutters in this case).Let him go ahead and make himself look an idiot.

Why on earth this geezer is orchestrating all this from Hat Yai is curious ,to say the least. As there is no support from folks there for Thaksin et.al. Just down the road from Hat Yai ,however is is Songkhla from where one of his arch enemies is from: Prem. Tin S?

A storm in a tea-cup maybe or worse!

[lensta]

This is a Nation article so take it with some salt. The Nation is famous for setting up the elite against the people. Just to keep out of the arms of the NCC the directors and owners have chosen to sell their sole and independence to the yellow shirts. That is why you do not find any critical note towards courts who apply double standards and no critical note towards people like Prem, Surayud or others.

I suppose that all people who have a democratic mind and who love freedom of speech are at war with the military. Not necessarily a war in which people get killed but at least a intellectual war. It is unforgiving and unacceptable that an institution that should work for the people grabbed power more than the military in any given African banana republic did. Worse it is always to un-seed the people elected by the poor and it seems always to benefit the rich and especially the Chinese Thai minority.

Agreed, I smell a rat. As the time draws closer for the reds to start their rallies and a decision on Thaksins court case, I think the

government and their supporters will use anything to discredit the reds and Thaksin, even by linking a nut case like this guy to the reds.

I wounder if the reds will deny he is now "a leader" if not I could change my opinion.

Wow lensta -- where have you been? Sae Daeng has been closely associated with the Reds for a long time and has publicly called for grenade attacks against people etc.

They didn't distance themselves from him then and they won't now. The amazing thing to me is that you see conspiracy by government supporters in a public statement made by Sae Daeng.

I have been living in Thailand for the last 5 years, where have you been? I have no doubt that either side of the political fence would use anything to discredit the other side. Thailands politicians aren't exactly what I would call an honorable bunch. Also just because someone declares himself a leader doesn't mean he actually is, I can declare myself god but is doesn't mean that I am.

[beammeup]

"he went to Hat Yai on Thursday to train the red-shirt people there"

Anyone who knows HatYai knows that such a "training" can be very quick and

can be performed in a hotel room ...

"Red Shirts" in HatYai are so few that they don't need to train to be invisible

He wount even need to get off the train he can do the training in the toilet

[zzaa09]

Treason.

Firing squad.

End of.

Does seem that way. Declaring war against your own army / country. Presumably all officers swear an oath of allegiance to the State and to the Monarch.

Allegiances have been known to topple. This certainly wouldn't be the first instance of factions of Thai military dividing and standing-off against each other. Contemporary Siamese/Thai history is rife with such events.....

[animatic]

So you are saying that Thaksin is dark-skinned?

Not at all! This is NOT about Thaksin and the monarchy, this is about democracy and the old archaic system of patron-client relationships. It is about one group of people wanting to preserve a way of life for themselves at the expense of the rest of the country. It is the age-old class war.

Nope it is a naked grab for power and money using an age old class war idea

as part of it's propaganda campaign. Just using one segment against the other

with the simplest rhetoric to get them riled up.

Divide and conquer a people as all the text books state how.

Certainly the old guard is fading out and not with a whimper,

but tearing the country apart will not attain the desired goals of

speeding their departure AND installing a better working system.

and BOTH must be done together and only time will do that smoothly

and with the least unnecessary socital disjunction and dysfunction.

[tilac2]

If Howard V's post is really by a Thai this is very interesting and worth learning from. It's worth mentioning at this point the nearly forgotten name Pridi Banomyong, one of the key figures in recent Thai history who helped write the 1932 constitution which should have set up Thailand (or Siam as it then was) as a democracy . But then the extreme right-wingers took over, soon to be supported by the Americans. Yet Pridi's proposed contitution was actually quite moderate, and by no means anti-monarchist.