Good Article

[Langsuan Man]

Some anecdotal impressions

Go to the TV classifieds and in the advance search function choose from this category then Houses for sale then Chonburi/Pattaya from the drop down

Do this all again but this time pick Houses to Rent and be amazed at the number of ads that you will recognize from the first category (sale) that are also available to Rent

My impression is that more people are aware of the pitfalls of house and land ownership problems here in Thailand due to information on sites like this. A couple of years ago it was almost heresy to even question the "company route" to land and house ownership but now we have open and reasonable discussions about it so people can make up their own minds

My final impression is the lousy Real Estate Agents around here, like most salespeople they don't want to listen what you want but only want to sell you what they want to sell

Two examples: Saw an AD on a Realtors web site and sent them a email using their site, asking if the specific property was still available and got an answer back telling me that they don't do business that way, I should call them and discuss it. Had they answered the questions, Yes it was still available I might of called but to lecture a potential customer was the kiss of death, IMHO

Second example: Have been watching a particular companies web site and noted that they had a lot of listings in the Bang Sarey area and they showed one Condo Complex that was advertised in Bang Sarey but the listing stated it was in Phratmanak Hill. I replied asking if it was in Bang Sarey or Phratmanak ? Got an answer 5 days later that it was in Phratmanak but no explanation of why it was listed in the Bang Sarey section. Had nothing to do so the TG and I walked over to their office that afternoon and the office was empty accept for the "foreign" owner ? / salesman ? / office manager? He was in conversation with a foreign man and thai woman as his desk visible from the sidewalk. We did not stop but continued walking up the street and had a cup of coffee for about 45 minutes waiting for them to finish their business. Went back and they were still sitting there talking and when I walked in I asked if I could see his Bang Sarey listing sheets and the answer I got was "Well I am all alone here can you come back" HELLO, a walkin live wire is better prospect than your BLANK (enter whatever european nationality you want here) buddy that you are obviously bull s...... ing with

So when we talk about the lousy market, let's not forget the lousy marketeers

[jb4446]

Everybody has different desires. For me, I don't want to rent. Thailand is my home and I don't plan on moving. Luckily, where I am, there will be no karaoke bars or soi dogs barking at all hours. Otherwise, I would not have purchased...or even rented...

I am retired because I did not rent. If I had, I would still be working. There are many others out there just like me who made a fair amount of money with their home purchases. Unfortunately, now is not the time to do that, but if you are willing to stay put for 10 years, I guarantee you will make a profit. And by then, if you had rented, you would be out a lot of cash.

If it is your home and you don't want to move, who cares what it could currently sell for? It just does not matter. Right?

Historically, real estate goes up 2-3% a year. Over time. I don't see any reason that won't continue. Some years up, some years down. But consistently on a slow upward path.

10 years? , Old age or infirmity willl always drive you home eventually,you'd have to be a mug if you are willing to die out here.To buy on a falling market you'd be a mug too,so the question begs an answer,how long you gonna live to make a potentional profit 20 years ,30 years?.Not around that long chum,nor I suspect a lot of long term foreigners out here

[ace]

I think you have to separate the condo market from the house market. Due to land ownership laws, houses are a real problem right now. Condos are much easier to deal with for foreigners. I know there are some abandoned condo shells around, but the ones I visited seemed to be doing fairly well...some were 100% sold out.

Yeh totally agree. I just bought a unit and the 2 contender developments were both near 100% sold (Park Lane being one of them). Houses do not make sense as an investment here. I only own foreign name corner unit condos over 40m2 - that's my minimum standard and they will rent you can believe that.

As someone who intends on retiring here it is essential to have a local income, as UK pension holders can tell you.

But I am glad to see everyone is saying that the market here is dead,dead forever - must be a good time to buy

[Tejas]

I think you have to separate the condo market from the house market. Due to land ownership laws, houses are a real problem right now. Condos are much easier to deal with for foreigners. I know there are some abandoned condo shells around, but the ones I visited seemed to be doing fairly well...some were 100% sold out.

Yeh totally agree. I just bought a unit and the 2 contender developments were both near 100% sold (Park Lane being one of them). Houses do not make sense as an investment here. I only own foreign name corner unit condos over 40m2 - that's my minimum standard and they will rent you can believe that.

As someone who intends on retiring here it is essential to have a local income, as UK pension holders can tell you.

But I am glad to see everyone is saying that the market here is dead,dead forever - must be a good time to buy

There are only so many corner units.......fewer corner units on the oceanfront.........fewer still corner units at penthouse level.

You are smart to buy those. My guess is that there will always be a market for them.

But they are few in number. Most units are not being sold.

It is important to make a distinction between the top end, and middle/low end.

Personally, I think you would be nuts to buy into this condo market now (unless it is a condo at the top end).

Even then, you are really taking a risk.

[sharecropper]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

[PattayaParent]

You can still sell if you dont ask ridiculas prices, I sold my house, full price the first month I listed it in Pattaya. I asked 2.5 million, and that is what I paid for it 5 years ago. But the usd has gone south 25% since than, so I made a nice 25 % profit!

Same as me with my old condo, made 40% on the exchange rate although sold it for what I paid 10 years earlier.

Now if only there were other Farangs doing that maybe their properties would move, I've seen a couple I certainly would have bought if they had been priced that way but the Farang owners were too greedy.

[Pakboong]

You can still sell if you dont ask ridiculas prices, I sold my house, full price the first month I listed it in Pattaya. I asked 2.5 million, and that is what I paid for it 5 years ago. But the usd has gone south 25% since than, so I made a nice 25 % profit!

Same as me with my old condo, made 40% on the exchange rate although sold it for what I paid 10 years earlier.

Now if only there were other Farangs doing that maybe their properties would move, I've seen a couple I certainly would have bought if they had been priced that way but the Farang owners were too greedy.

I don't think it is a matter of greed. It is tough to take a loss on property when all we have known has been big profits. Times have changed and we must move on.

[dickie58]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

There are a lot of signs all around town for condos being reduced by 50%, trouble is when you ask the developer where they are in most cases dont exist.

I have been also looking at condos, but as most of the decent ones are charging 35 baht per sqm per month +, service charges, it mounts up if you want a 2 bed 130sqm unit (4500 per month), then a few are charging you extra for water & electric.

As i don't like heights, i would want to be on a lower floor, if you buy a condo on a low floor with a sea view, & there is any vacant land in front of the block, no gurantee another condo wont go up in front, sea view gone, but applies to a house as well i guess?

Then what happens if you get a noisy neigbour coming home at all hours of the night living above you or next door?

The main advantage of owning a condo in my opinon is that you can have it in a farang name.

In some of the newer developments there is a two tier price in operation, you pay considerably more in some cases if you want it in a farang name. Again the bigger the unit the more the price diffrence is.

On one new condo building currently being sold off plan near me, the diffrence on some of the large rooms 130sqm, from Thai ownership to Farang ownership, is 2 milion baht.

The building in question is not due to even start until June/July, then there estimating 2 years to build.

I have recently looked at some nice new housing developments on the darkside, service charges there vary between about 12 to 15,000 bht per year. Although Farangs can't own land, there are ways aroud it, & lots of people doing it so they can't all be in trouble/wrong?

If you live here permantly i don't see the point in renting, money going down the drain in my opinon.

Edited January 26, 2010 by dickie58

[Pakboong]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

There are a lot of signs all around town for condos being reduced by 50%, trouble is when you ask the developer where they are in most cases dont exist.

I have been also looking at condos, but as most of the decent ones are charging 35 baht per sqm per month +, service charges, it mounts up if you want a 2 bed 130sqm unit (4500 per month), then a few are charging you extra for water & electric.

As i don't like heights, i would want to be on a lower floor, if you buy a condo on a low floor with a sea view, & there is any vacant land in front of the block, no gurantee another condo wont go up in front, sea view gone, but applies to a house as well i guess?

Then what happens if you get a noisy neigbour coming home at all hours of the night living above you or next door?

The main advantage of owning a condo in my opinon is that you can have it in a farang name.

In some of the newer developments there is a two tier price in operation, you pay considerably more in some cases if you want it in a farang name. Again the bigger the unit the more the price diffrence is.

On one new condo building currently being sold off plan near me, the diffrence on some of the large rooms 130sqm, from Thai ownership to Farang ownership, is 2 milion baht.

The building in question is not due to even start until June/July, then there estimating 2 years to build.

I have recently looked at some nice new housing developments on the darkside, service charges there vary between about 12 to 15,000 bht per year. Although Farangs can't own land, there are ways aroud it, & lots of people doing it so they can't all be in trouble/wrong?

If you live here permantly i don't see the point in renting, money going down the drain in my opinon.

The main reason for the Thai price is that it is close to the actual appraised value against which a bank will make a maximum mortgage; which is the normal way a condo would be purchased in ones own country. The condo developers have experience with how these units will appraise. You are being asked to pay a premium because you always have. These developers will have to make their prices based upon reality soon. Times have changed.

[sharecropper]

The main reason for the Thai price is that it is close to the actual appraised value against which a bank will make a maximum mortgage; which is the normal way a condo would be purchased in ones own country. The condo developers have experience with how these units will appraise. You are being asked to pay a premium because you always have. These developers will have to make their prices based upon reality soon. Times have changed.

Pakboong, do developers nowadays calculate profits (or do banks do their calculations for developer loans) on both the Thai and foreigner-owned perecentages being fully sold at the different two-tier levels, or on 100% of the building being sold at the Thai price, with the foreigners paying the higher price being a bonus?

[Pakboong]

The main reason for the Thai price is that it is close to the actual appraised value against which a bank will make a maximum mortgage; which is the normal way a condo would be purchased in ones own country. The condo developers have experience with how these units will appraise. You are being asked to pay a premium because you always have. These developers will have to make their prices based upon reality soon. Times have changed.

Pakboong, do developers nowadays calculate profits (or do banks do their calculations for developer loans) on both the Thai and foreigner-owned perecentages being fully sold at the different two-tier levels, or on 100% of the building being sold at the Thai price, with the foreigners paying the higher price being a bonus?

Sorry, I really don't know how that works.

[PattayaParent]

You can still sell if you dont ask ridiculas prices, I sold my house, full price the first month I listed it in Pattaya. I asked 2.5 million, and that is what I paid for it 5 years ago. But the usd has gone south 25% since than, so I made a nice 25 % profit!

Same as me with my old condo, made 40% on the exchange rate although sold it for what I paid 10 years earlier.

Now if only there were other Farangs doing that maybe their properties would move, I've seen a couple I certainly would have bought if they had been priced that way but the Farang owners were too greedy.

I don't think it is a matter of greed. It is tough to take a loss on property when all we have known has been big profits. Times have changed and we must move on.

When is a 25% profit and 40% profit a loss?

[Firestarter]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

There are a lot of signs all around town for condos being reduced by 50%, trouble is when you ask the developer where they are in most cases dont exist.

I have been also looking at condos, but as most of the decent ones are charging 35 baht per sqm per month +, service charges, it mounts up if you want a 2 bed 130sqm unit (4500 per month), then a few are charging you extra for water & electric.

As i don't like heights, i would want to be on a lower floor, if you buy a condo on a low floor with a sea view, & there is any vacant land in front of the block, no gurantee another condo wont go up in front, sea view gone, but applies to a house as well i guess?

Then what happens if you get a noisy neigbour coming home at all hours of the night living above you or next door?

The main advantage of owning a condo in my opinon is that you can have it in a farang name.

In some of the newer developments there is a two tier price in operation, you pay considerably more in some cases if you want it in a farang name. Again the bigger the unit the more the price diffrence is.

On one new condo building currently being sold off plan near me, the diffrence on some of the large rooms 130sqm, from Thai ownership to Farang ownership, is 2 milion baht.

The building in question is not due to even start until June/July, then there estimating 2 years to build.

I have recently looked at some nice new housing developments on the darkside, service charges there vary between about 12 to 15,000 bht per year. Although Farangs can't own land, there are ways aroud it, & lots of people doing it so they can't all be in trouble/wrong?

If you live here permantly i don't see the point in renting, money going down the drain in my opinon.

Thats up to you. TIT.

BTW a house is in no way safe from the Karaoke noise, even with 10 rai of land around you. The lovley base beat and soft female /male Thai tones will drift your way some day.

If you had said a house would be a great assit for my wife and family i would agree.

but as i said, up to you.

Its also new to see prices coming down, this is a first for pattaya.

Hope it keeps up.

[dickie58]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

There are a lot of signs all around town for condos being reduced by 50%, trouble is when you ask the developer where they are in most cases dont exist.

I have been also looking at condos, but as most of the decent ones are charging 35 baht per sqm per month +, service charges, it mounts up if you want a 2 bed 130sqm unit (4500 per month), then a few are charging you extra for water & electric.

As i don't like heights, i would want to be on a lower floor, if you buy a condo on a low floor with a sea view, & there is any vacant land in front of the block, no gurantee another condo wont go up in front, sea view gone, but applies to a house as well i guess?

Then what happens if you get a noisy neigbour coming home at all hours of the night living above you or next door?

The main advantage of owning a condo in my opinon is that you can have it in a farang name.

In some of the newer developments there is a two tier price in operation, you pay considerably more in some cases if you want it in a farang name. Again the bigger the unit the more the price diffrence is.

On one new condo building currently being sold off plan near me, the diffrence on some of the large rooms 130sqm, from Thai ownership to Farang ownership, is 2 milion baht.

The building in question is not due to even start until June/July, then there estimating 2 years to build.

I have recently looked at some nice new housing developments on the darkside, service charges there vary between about 12 to 15,000 bht per year. Although Farangs can't own land, there are ways aroud it, & lots of people doing it so they can't all be in trouble/wrong?

If you live here permantly i don't see the point in renting, money going down the drain in my opinon.

The main reason for the Thai price is that it is close to the actual appraised value against which a bank will make a maximum mortgage; which is the normal way a condo would be purchased in ones own country. The condo developers have experience with how these units will appraise. You are being asked to pay a premium because you always have. These developers will have to make their prices based upon reality soon. Times have changed.

There are a number of plots of land for sale up here on Phratmanak @ 40,000 bht tw = 10,000 bht sqm, the developers are building condos for 10 to 15,000 bht sqm, that works out to there costs being something in the region of 25,000 bht per sqm, obvously there are other things to take into account, but with the cheaper condo buildings being sold around 55 to 60,000 bht per sqm there still making a huge profit, multiple that by the number of floors in the block & that gives you an idea of the huge profit there making.

There are a few condos up here still under construction, & there asking 80,000++ per sqm

The reason the developers are offereing good deals buying off plan, is simple, then they use the clients money to build, the question is when you have maybe paid 50% down payment, will the condo ever get completed/finished, or in some cases even start?

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

Edited January 26, 2010 by dickie58

[dickie58]

For real estate price oglers - I just came back from town and saw the following 2 ads:

In Soi 6 Pratamnak - an advert claiming a condo in a new-build (maybe still off-plan?) development previously priced at 3.2 million Baht is now going for 1.69m Baht

Also in another (Thai-build) condo, one block back from the sea in Jomtien, new 40 sq m shoeboxes going for 1.4m Baht (so 35,000 psm), in a location where, 3-4 years ago, they were trying to flog condos (unuccessfully) at 70,000+ per sq metre.

Maybe times are changing.

There are a lot of signs all around town for condos being reduced by 50%, trouble is when you ask the developer where they are in most cases dont exist.

I have been also looking at condos, but as most of the decent ones are charging 35 baht per sqm per month +, service charges, it mounts up if you want a 2 bed 130sqm unit (4500 per month), then a few are charging you extra for water & electric.

As i don't like heights, i would want to be on a lower floor, if you buy a condo on a low floor with a sea view, & there is any vacant land in front of the block, no gurantee another condo wont go up in front, sea view gone, but applies to a house as well i guess?

Then what happens if you get a noisy neigbour coming home at all hours of the night living above you or next door?

The main advantage of owning a condo in my opinon is that you can have it in a farang name.

In some of the newer developments there is a two tier price in operation, you pay considerably more in some cases if you want it in a farang name. Again the bigger the unit the more the price diffrence is.

On one new condo building currently being sold off plan near me, the diffrence on some of the large rooms 130sqm, from Thai ownership to Farang ownership, is 2 milion baht.

The building in question is not due to even start until June/July, then there estimating 2 years to build.

I have recently looked at some nice new housing developments on the darkside, service charges there vary between about 12 to 15,000 bht per year. Although Farangs can't own land, there are ways aroud it, & lots of people doing it so they can't all be in trouble/wrong?

If you live here permantly i don't see the point in renting, money going down the drain in my opinon.

Thats up to you. TIT.

BTW a house is in no way safe from the Karaoke noise, even with 10 rai of land around you. The lovley base beat and soft female /male Thai tones will drift your way some day.

If you had said a house would be a great assit for my wife and family i would agree.

but as i said, up to you.

Its also new to see prices coming down, this is a first for pattaya.

Hope it keeps up.

Don't personally know of any Thai karoke bars up here on Phratamnak, if there are i've never heard them anyway!!

The main noise we get is over Xmas & New Year from the fireworks at Bali hai pier, & surronding hotel fireworks

[Firestarter]

Im sure one will find you one day!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is no escape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My last post was for Craigt3365, sorry.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Firestarter

[Naam]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

[bellste]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

Because nobody want to bye it.

Look at "The Beach", between Pattaya and Jomtien. It should be the biggest building project in Thailand.

It ended with a bit of cement structures on the ground in the summer of 2009. After that nothing has been done. 

Where are all the deposits people paied in advance? Nobody knows.(Cyprus, is my guess.) Property in Thailand for farang. No thank you! Much better to rent.

Edited January 26, 2010 by bellste

[eljeque]

impossible to sell this house for this price. You can buy a new one, very much the same for about 3,000,000.00 baht. In many places even much cheaper.

The house sits on 328tw. I do not think that there is 80% of a rai for 3M anywhere near anyplace worthwhile, and especially not on P. Hill.

The house is enormous. Even at only 10,000 / meter, 3M would make only 3,000 meters of house, and this one looks larger than that.

It may be on the high side, but 3M it is not.

[Beardog]

Some anecdotal impressions

Go to the TV classifieds and in the advance search function choose from this category then Houses for sale then Chonburi/Pattaya from the drop down

Do this all again but this time pick Houses to Rent and be amazed at the number of ads that you will recognize from the first category (sale) that are also available to Rent

My impression is that more people are aware of the pitfalls of house and land ownership problems here in Thailand due to information on sites like this. A couple of years ago it was almost heresy to even question the "company route" to land and house ownership but now we have open and reasonable discussions about it so people can make up their own minds

My final impression is the lousy Real Estate Agents around here, like most salespeople they don't want to listen what you want but only want to sell you what they want to sell

Two examples: Saw an AD on a Realtors web site and sent them a email using their site, asking if the specific property was still available and got an answer back telling me that they don't do business that way, I should call them and discuss it. Had they answered the questions, Yes it was still available I might of called but to lecture a potential customer was the kiss of death, IMHO

Second example: Have been watching a particular companies web site and noted that they had a lot of listings in the Bang Sarey area and they showed one Condo Complex that was advertised in Bang Sarey but the listing stated it was in Phratmanak Hill. I replied asking if it was in Bang Sarey or Phratmanak ? Got an answer 5 days later that it was in Phratmanak but no explanation of why it was listed in the Bang Sarey section. Had nothing to do so the TG and I walked over to their office that afternoon and the office was empty accept for the "foreign" owner ? / salesman ? / office manager? He was in conversation with a foreign man and thai woman as his desk visible from the sidewalk. We did not stop but continued walking up the street and had a cup of coffee for about 45 minutes waiting for them to finish their business. Went back and they were still sitting there talking and when I walked in I asked if I could see his Bang Sarey listing sheets and the answer I got was "Well I am all alone here can you come back" HELLO, a walkin live wire is better prospect than your BLANK (enter whatever european nationality you want here) buddy that you are obviously bull s...... ing with

So when we talk about the lousy market, let's not forget the lousy marketeers

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude. We bough at the end of the peak in 2006 & land was still commanding a price. I would avoid using a real estate agent. My girl has a neighbor that is selling 4&1/2 rai for 1.5 mill. near the ocean. We look at tomorrow. There are deals out there. In Bang Sare best to cruise down & check out the lay of the land & go from there.

Cheers & happy hunting

[BSJ]

My view is that the best time to make offers on real estate is when the smell of cordite is in the air. And in LOS, given the current political tooing and throwing it would be reasonable to assume I won't have to wait long! 5 cents in the dollar anyone??? Of course the down side maybe that the winners, who ever they be, may not like farang!

[dickie58]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

As someone has already said the house sits on 328 tw of land, divide 25 milion by 328tw, then by 4 (as 1 tw = 4sqm), you then get a break down of 19,500 per sqm, easy isin't it?!!!

As buying a condo is so easy & secure, maybe some people should think about the Beaches development in Bang Saray, where clients have paid big deposits & nothing has even started yet.

[dickie58]

Some anecdotal impressions

Go to the TV classifieds and in the advance search function choose from this category then Houses for sale then Chonburi/Pattaya from the drop down

Do this all again but this time pick Houses to Rent and be amazed at the number of ads that you will recognize from the first category (sale) that are also available to Rent

My impression is that more people are aware of the pitfalls of house and land ownership problems here in Thailand due to information on sites like this. A couple of years ago it was almost heresy to even question the "company route" to land and house ownership but now we have open and reasonable discussions about it so people can make up their own minds

My final impression is the lousy Real Estate Agents around here, like most salespeople they don't want to listen what you want but only want to sell you what they want to sell

Two examples: Saw an AD on a Realtors web site and sent them a email using their site, asking if the specific property was still available and got an answer back telling me that they don't do business that way, I should call them and discuss it. Had they answered the questions, Yes it was still available I might of called but to lecture a potential customer was the kiss of death, IMHO

Second example: Have been watching a particular companies web site and noted that they had a lot of listings in the Bang Sarey area and they showed one Condo Complex that was advertised in Bang Sarey but the listing stated it was in Phratmanak Hill. I replied asking if it was in Bang Sarey or Phratmanak ? Got an answer 5 days later that it was in Phratmanak but no explanation of why it was listed in the Bang Sarey section. Had nothing to do so the TG and I walked over to their office that afternoon and the office was empty accept for the "foreign" owner ? / salesman ? / office manager? He was in conversation with a foreign man and thai woman as his desk visible from the sidewalk. We did not stop but continued walking up the street and had a cup of coffee for about 45 minutes waiting for them to finish their business. Went back and they were still sitting there talking and when I walked in I asked if I could see his Bang Sarey listing sheets and the answer I got was "Well I am all alone here can you come back" HELLO, a walkin live wire is better prospect than your BLANK (enter whatever european nationality you want here) buddy that you are obviously bull s...... ing with

So when we talk about the lousy market, let's not forget the lousy marketeers

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude. We bough at the end of the peak in 2006 & land was still commanding a price. I would avoid using a real estate agent. My girl has a neighbor that is selling 4&1/2 rai for 1.5 mill. near the ocean. We look at tomorrow. There are deals out there. In Bang Sare best to cruise down & check out the lay of the land & go from there.

Cheers & happy hunting

I don't beilieve you can buy 41/2 rai near the ocean in Bang Saray for 1.5 million bht?

[dickie58]

I've just seen a Northpoint Ptty condo advertsed on another web site, 155,000 bht per sqm, sounds like a real bargain!!...I don't think so

Construction not finished yet.

Similar prices in the Cove i think?

I'm sure there very nice, but are they worth 3,000 pounds sterling per sqm?

[Naam]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

As someone has already said the house sits on 328 tw of land, divide 25 milion by 328tw, then by 4 (as 1 tw = 4sqm), you then get a break down of 19,500 per sqm, easy isin't it?!!!

As buying a condo is so easy & secure, maybe some people should think about the Beaches development in Bang Saray, where clients have paid big deposits & nothing has even started yet.

no it's not easy because nowhere in the world (you are an exception) the unit cost of a home per m² is quoted based on a calculation including the land area.

you are quite right with your claim that a condo is much more expensive than a detached home including the land.

but you are wrong expecting any profit from the sale of your home. i've built in 2005/2006 a home with 600m² (fully airconditioned) living area on (a tat more than) one rai in a top gated community and stopped counting when the cost exceeded 25 million. but in case i want to sell a realistic price would be presently around 15 million and i don't expect any improvement for years to come. the difference in both our thinking is that i was aware well in advance of what i am talking about and what to expect (based on experience), you are obviously not.

others mentioned already, and i second that, that anybody who is willing to spend that amount for a home in Thailand would like to choose his own floor plan as well as selecting each and every little finishing detail.

[Naam]

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude.

big deal Beardog! the problem is that the chance to find a girl like yours is 1:1 million. that's what my wife and i think after we met both of you

[craigt3365]

I have to say the prices they are asking for the "premium" RE here is amazing. You think Pattaya is bad...head to Phuket. I shopped for a month and almost had to start taking prozac! It was depressing! Prices were unreal even at the non-premium places.

I looked here at that new VT building right on the beach. The price asked for a box was stunning...but it did have great sea views! Same with a lot of other premium condos. But they are selling...somebody is buying them. Quite a few are Russians. A lot are Thais. And most of them only come here on weekends and for holidays. Means no neighbors most of the time, which is nice!

There is a really nice restaurant down near Bang Sare, right on the ocean. Kinda has levels all the way down to the water. I was there a few months ago and noticed the building to the north was pretty much black. No lights on. I asked the manager there if there was any problems with it. He said it was mostly owned by Thais, was quite expensive, and they only come on holidays and weekends. Not bad...

But as always, the premium stuff sells, the rest may just sit...or never get finished!

[Pakboong]

I have to say the prices they are asking for the "premium" RE here is amazing. You think Pattaya is bad...head to Phuket. I shopped for a month and almost had to start taking prozac! It was depressing! Prices were unreal even at the non-premium places.

I looked here at that new VT building right on the beach. The price asked for a box was stunning...but it did have great sea views! Same with a lot of other premium condos. But they are selling...somebody is buying them. Quite a few are Russians. A lot are Thais. And most of them only come here on weekends and for holidays. Means no neighbors most of the time, which is nice!

There is a really nice restaurant down near Bang Sare, right on the ocean. Kinda has levels all the way down to the water. I was there a few months ago and noticed the building to the north was pretty much black. No lights on. I asked the manager there if there was any problems with it. He said it was mostly owned by Thais, was quite expensive, and they only come on holidays and weekends. Not bad...

But as always, the premium stuff sells, the rest may just sit...or never get finished!

There will always be a few for whom price doesn't matter. As for the rest of us. price matters a bunch. Perhaps only as a matter of principle with regards to not being thought of as stupid.

[Beardog]

Some anecdotal impressions

Go to the TV classifieds and in the advance search function choose from this category then Houses for sale then Chonburi/Pattaya from the drop down

Do this all again but this time pick Houses to Rent and be amazed at the number of ads that you will recognize from the first category (sale) that are also available to Rent

My impression is that more people are aware of the pitfalls of house and land ownership problems here in Thailand due to information on sites like this. A couple of years ago it was almost heresy to even question the "company route" to land and house ownership but now we have open and reasonable discussions about it so people can make up their own minds

My final impression is the lousy Real Estate Agents around here, like most salespeople they don't want to listen what you want but only want to sell you what they want to sell

Two examples: Saw an AD on a Realtors web site and sent them a email using their site, asking if the specific property was still available and got an answer back telling me that they don't do business that way, I should call them and discuss it. Had they answered the questions, Yes it was still available I might of called but to lecture a potential customer was the kiss of death, IMHO

Second example: Have been watching a particular companies web site and noted that they had a lot of listings in the Bang Sarey area and they showed one Condo Complex that was advertised in Bang Sarey but the listing stated it was in Phratmanak Hill. I replied asking if it was in Bang Sarey or Phratmanak ? Got an answer 5 days later that it was in Phratmanak but no explanation of why it was listed in the Bang Sarey section. Had nothing to do so the TG and I walked over to their office that afternoon and the office was empty accept for the "foreign" owner ? / salesman ? / office manager? He was in conversation with a foreign man and thai woman as his desk visible from the sidewalk. We did not stop but continued walking up the street and had a cup of coffee for about 45 minutes waiting for them to finish their business. Went back and they were still sitting there talking and when I walked in I asked if I could see his Bang Sarey listing sheets and the answer I got was "Well I am all alone here can you come back" HELLO, a walkin live wire is better prospect than your BLANK (enter whatever european nationality you want here) buddy that you are obviously bull s...... ing with

So when we talk about the lousy market, let's not forget the lousy marketeers

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude. We bough at the end of the peak in 2006 & land was still commanding a price. I would avoid using a real estate agent. My girl has a neighbor that is selling 4&1/2 rai for 1.5 mill. near the ocean. We look at tomorrow. There are deals out there. In Bang Sare best to cruise down & check out the lay of the land & go from there.

Cheers & happy hunting

I don't beilieve you can buy 41/2 rai near the ocean in Bang Saray for 1.5 million bht?

Me neither it is 1.5 mill per rai & all as 1 unit. Thats why I am checking on it today. the last time was a nursery in Maprachaun lake area supposed to be right on the lake turned out to be 3 kilos up the mountain & no nursery just coconuts.

we will see later.

[PattayaParent]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

As someone has already said the house sits on 328 tw of land, divide 25 milion by 328tw, then by 4 (as 1 tw = 4sqm), you then get a break down of 19,500 per sqm, easy isin't it?!!!

no it's not easy because nowhere in the world (you are an exception) the unit cost of a home per m² is quoted based on a calculation including the land area.

I think in this case it's a fair calculation as he was making a comparison to the m2 cost of a condo unit, which is inclusive of the land, swimming pool, lifts, sauna, car park etc. that the building sits on.