Farang In Los Are Generally Reactive, Not Proactive

[Dakhar]

"..special needs teacher.... Hmmm where I come from, your license would be revoked in a nano second, teaching while "blitzed" from "blazing" up a fatty in the boys room during recess is rather frowned upon.

But that is besides the point. Your rant and attempt of justifying the recent murder of a German fellow, that unfortunatley for him was not "melowed out" at the time of his death, is falling upon deaf ears..."

your ad-hominum cyber attacks and incorrect assertions are beyond the pale, like you sir. You are flaming me constantly, but I actually enjoy you showing your true colors again and again, spewing your cyber - venom .. I have no time to figure out your unfortunate predicament in life.. that of false judge and jury, willing to point fingers in the wrong direction, everywhere but towards the mirror ( that would be PROACTIVE) . I have a new name for you.. REACTION MAN.. ( because you can )

I never went to work anything but straight and sober, but you seem to know all, carry on existing in your deluded syndrome.

As for the German fellow, he is only the latest unfortunate victim that fell prey to reactive LOSERS... i do feel sorry for those farang who will continue to honk their horns and gesture in anger when cut off by motorcycles

signed: straight guy

Blitzed or not, if you test positive for THC, your license would be gone....

So now, according to you, the German fellow (a person you never met) is a member of the "reactive LOSERS" club.

Again I find this statement (ie Loser) to be ironic, coming from a self proclained former drug addict and "binge drinker." Alas, reformed and now an olympian.

[Paul123456]

Original statement - seemed fair enough observation.

Maybe not just farang - but many people that spend a lot of time complaining, are perhaps as you describe. I am guilty myself often

[siamamerican]

The OP heading is confusing or might just be too deep for me. I now just try to find the humor in all the events that upset me which is reactive(???). For example, lashing out at the superior attitude x-pats have towards Thais., is now an easy task. Generalization I know, but the most vocal Thai bashers are a mere few steps from a complete medical meltdown and are far from perfect in too many ways to list here. I really doubt they're the reason for their perceived country's lofty world standing.

[Briggsy]

Cognos

I am sure you are a nice guy but this is just one in a series of threads in which the undertone is very clearly "Thai good everybody else bad".

Your source of info, probably your missus, is seemingly spouting the Thai nationalistic non-objective rubbish that was shoved down her neck at school and is regurgitated by most Thais as soon as any negative press regarding Thailand is encountered. You seem to be swallowing this propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Thailand has many social problems, a high crime rate, a massive, mainly domestic, sex industry, enormous social inequality, heavy pollution and accompanying cancer rates, a very corrupt police force and ineffective legal system.

This is not to say there are many good points about Thailand but your view is clearly unbalanced and takes a highly racial viewpoint that suggests the existence of 2 species, Thais and farangs.

May I respectfully suggest you conduct more thorough research and do not rely on your wife as your sole source of information regarding Thailand.

I fear when the veil falls from your eyes, you will have a hard landing.

With respect

Briggsy

[toptuan]

What this sounds more like to me is " Should all foreigners become sheeply and forget their own sense of purposë " .

And when, as an expat, you are the opposite of sheeply--ignoring the host culture, blundering on blindly, being the "Ugly American" (Frenchman, Brit, etc.), living your own culture and values despite the environment in which you are immersed, purposely going against the flow, running over the Thai people around you--just exactly what IS your purpose here?

Edited January 31, 2010 by toptuan

[gmac]

Is the OP trying to pen a rationale for the murder of the German in Phuket, who was murdered for beeping his horn? Oh, no you di'int!

let me attempt to enlighten you..( although I would probably be better off convincing freshly poured concrete not to dry)..if you want to generally look through the lens of western culture, you honk your horn in anger, or you let someone know you are not happy with what they did, so you honk at them. This generally is NOT a helpful response. If you want to assimilate into Thai culture, you honk your horn ONLY to avoid an accident.. ONLY to avoid an accident.. NOT to "TEACH" the OTHER guy A LESSON..of course some Thais will honk their horns in anger.. but does that mean you do it too?? cmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn..

..being proactive means keeping a low profile, and not reacting to your anger/frustration/..you are in LOS now!!! not in Europe..go to Rome in the round abouts.. most everyone leans on the horn 24/7 this is not GOOD in LOS, as we have seen time and time again

This is not to rationalize the poor fellows murder, this is to be PROACTIVE to perhaps help ONE person from reacting in a similar fashion and perhaps meeting the same terrible fate

signed: tragedies can be avoided, but why bother changing from reactive to proactive??....ahhhhh lets see....

Just taking a look at your definition of proactive "means keeping a low profile". Here is a definition of the word "proactivity" from wikipedia (Not the World's greatest authority but this definition is certainly in keeping with my own understanding of the word) : Proactivity - Being proactive is about being anticipatory and taking charge of situations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactivity_(Proactive_behavior) . In fact, just the opposite of keeping a low profile.

Being proactive is actually all about taking action, not just keeping your head down.

As for using a car horn in annoyance, I frequently use mine when passing a vehicle double parked in the middle the road. Is this reactive or proactive? You would say reactive, I would say proactive! Yes I am reacting to a situation, but my action in doing so rather than a purely annoyed reaction, is a proactive action intended to encourage the offender not to stop his vehicle in such an inconsiderate manner. In fact it doesn't affect me at all as I am zipping past on a bike....what I am actually doing is trying to help the poor people lined up behind him in their cars waiting for a chance to get past.

[geriatrickid]

Oh boy. I believe the OP's observation only applies to certain demographic segments. If one looks at England, there is still a large part of the population that understands the concept of manners and how a queue works. Because a minority of the population is rude and aggressive, does it mean that the English have lost their manners? No. It's just that the minority of louts has grown so that the behaviour is not as uncommon as it was before.

I have to work with a couple large German MNES. Call some of the people anything but Herr Dr. and you risk a major offense. Any Australian or American type of informality is seen as rudeness. Based upon the rigid formality of our meetings, one would expect the Germans to be calm emotionless automatons. And yet, when I turn on the telly, there are a bunch of Germans at a football match tossing objects and screaming obscenities at each other.

It all gets down to the social demographic that is out there. A large number of expats on Phuket have built up successful business and overcome a great many odds to obtain what they have. I guess many of them are what we used to call Type A personalities. Being aggressive is what helped obtain the success. Unfortunately, it's what can also make them explosive at times. Others may just reflect their lifesyles of selfish debauchery, while others just had a one off bad day. And then there is the largest segment of foreigners that you don't notice. You don't notice them because they don't get excited and crap themselves. However, I think they are the majority of farangs here. Just as the majority of Thais are not hookers, thieves, drunks, hit and run killers or from Issan.

Now on the other hand if you want to generalize about Pattaya farangs..................

[Loz]

.what I am really doing is complaining about all the complainers, and assuming that many of the complaints by farang in LOS COULD be avoided altogether if farang were more proactive

signed; another god dammmmmed complainer of a different stripe

your original post promotes a passive approach, not a proactive approach. I found the title missleading.

I think you should have titled it, "WHy can't we all just, get along?" [in Jack Nicklson voice, from the movie]

and of course, there is no answer as it is a rhetorical question.

[dumball]

toptuan'

dumball' What this sounds more like to me is " Should all foreigners become sheeply and forget their own sense of purposë " .

And when, as an expat, you are the opposite of sheeply--ignoring the host culture, blundering on blindly, being the "Ugly American" (Frenchman, Brit, etc.), living your own culture and values despite the environment in which you are immersed, purposely going against the flow, running over the Thai people around you--just exactly what IS your purpose here?

Oh my , how easily can some interpret a post to their own restrictive way of thinking and then quote only that which is consistant or aligned with their own small mind .

My post , if you will conceed although rather doubtfull , goes on to state the opposite of what you have infered as a person who has a problem of not reading correctly or difficulty in undersstanding the English language as written. My goodness , you have reached a depth of Thai protectionism I have never seen before and hope I will never see again .

I left a long time ago , partialy due to people with a mindset such as yours , I want to live my life in more relaxed surroundings , not total immersion in a culture that I do not prescribe to but still able to go along with a different life style , minding my own buisiness and keeping away from prospective "Mind benders ".

[carmine]

Someone had a bad expat day...

..perhaps so, however many expats seem to have a bad "expat life", never mind day, and I am alleging, PLAIN AND SIMPLE, that instant gratification and being REACTIVE as opposed to Proactive ( see above examples for starters) causes the los expat no end of grief and misery

Don't stop taking the medication and remember to finish the course

[473geo]

Is the OP trying to pen a rationale for the murder of the German in Phuket, who was murdered for beeping his horn? Oh, no you di'int!

let me attempt to enlighten you..( although I would probably be better off convincing freshly poured concrete not to dry)..if you want to generally look through the lens of western culture, you honk your horn in anger, or you let someone know you are not happy with what they did, so you honk at them. This generally is NOT a helpful response. If you want to assimilate into Thai culture, you honk your horn ONLY to avoid an accident.. ONLY to avoid an accident.. NOT to "TEACH" the OTHER guy A LESSON..of course some Thais will honk their horns in anger.. but does that mean you do it too?? cmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn..

..being proactive means keeping a low profile, and not reacting to your anger/frustration/..you are in LOS now!!! not in Europe..go to Rome in the round abouts.. most everyone leans on the horn 24/7 this is not GOOD in LOS, as we have seen time and time again

This is not to rationalize the poor fellows murder, this is to be PROACTIVE to perhaps help ONE person from reacting in a similar fashion and perhaps meeting the same terrible fate

signed: tragedies can be avoided, but why bother changing from reactive to proactive??....ahhhhh lets see....

Just taking a look at your definition of proactive "means keeping a low profile". Here is a definition of the word "proactivity" from wikipedia (Not the World's greatest authority but this definition is certainly in keeping with my own understanding of the word) : Proactivity - Being proactive is about being anticipatory and taking charge of situations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactivity_(Proactive_behavior) . In fact, just the opposite of keeping a low profile.

Being proactive is actually all about taking action, not just keeping your head down.

As for using a car horn in annoyance, I frequently use mine when passing a vehicle double parked in the middle the road. Is this reactive or proactive? You would say reactive, I would say proactive! Yes I am reacting to a situation, but my action in doing so rather than a purely annoyed reaction, is a proactive action intended to encourage the offender not to stop his vehicle in such an inconsiderate manner. In fact it doesn't affect me at all as I am zipping past on a bike....what I am actually doing is trying to help the poor people lined up behind him in their cars waiting for a chance to get past.

Got to admit I too looked at the proactive definitions.......I came to the conclusion that being proactive would be to make a difference by making a decision to effect more controlled use of the horn....perhaps to only use where there was imminent danger......and only a small warning beep, as opposed to a long blare.......thus you have anticipated your normal reaction and taken charge of a potential future situation in a proactive manner.

Just out of interest if your horn was not working when you passed the double parked vehicle.......would you feel the 'offence' was major enough to be proactive, stop and get off your bike to have a word on behalf of the other drivers?.........

Edited January 31, 2010 by 473geo

[gmac]

Got to admit I too looked at the proactive definitions.......I came to the conclusion that being proactive would be to make a difference by making a decision to effect more controlled use of the horn....perhaps to only use where there was imminent danger......and only a small warning beep, as opposed to a long blare.......thus you have anticipated your normal reaction and taken charge of a potential future situation in a proactive manner.

Just out of interest if your horn was not working when you passed the double parked vehicle.......would you feel the 'offence' was major enough to be proactive, stop and get off your bike to have a word on behalf of the other drivers?.........

The feeling is there but regrettably fear takes over at that stage. Physical confrontation with one these types would likely result in a beating from him and a dozen of his instant mates who appear from nowhere on such occasions! Talking of controlled use of the horn, where do Pattaya Baht bus drivers fit into the scheme of things as they use their horns constantly and irritatingly to try to intimidate casual strollers into getting into their vehicles. Even those walking in the opposite direction on occasion! Guess that's a proactive usage as well.

[JimsKnight]

Yep, the farang are predominantly reactive, especially in recent years as the country has become swamped by the 'mainstream' tourist crowd.

It is what it is, especially in regard to the train-wreck relationships that are a dime-a-dozen.

[473geo]

That I can understand Gmac..... .......just making a point that I think sometimes people use the horn.....because it is there!!!!

As for the bus drivers - having miniscule experience of Pattaya - my understanding is they fall into the category below

"perhaps to only use where there was imminent danger"

Where they may well be the imminent danger!!!!.......

[toptuan]

I left a long time ago , partialy due to people with a mindset such as yours , I want to live my life in more relaxed surroundings , not total immersion in a culture that I do not prescribe to but still able to go along with a different life style , minding my own buisiness and keeping away from prospective "Mind benders ".

One thing we probably both agree on: You definitely made the right move.

[cognos]

"..special needs teacher.... Hmmm where I come from, your license would be revoked in a nano second, teaching while "blitzed" from "blazing" up a fatty in the boys room during recess is rather frowned upon.

But that is besides the point. Your rant and attempt of justifying the recent murder of a German fellow, that unfortunatley for him was not "melowed out" at the time of his death, is falling upon deaf ears..."

your ad-hominum cyber attacks and incorrect assertions are beyond the pale, like you sir. You are flaming me constantly, but I actually enjoy you showing your true colors again and again, spewing your cyber - venom .. I have no time to figure out your unfortunate predicament in life.. that of false judge and jury, willing to point fingers in the wrong direction, everywhere but towards the mirror ( that would be PROACTIVE) . I have a new name for you.. REACTION MAN.. ( because you can )

I never went to work anything but straight and sober, but you seem to know all, carry on existing in your deluded syndrome.

As for the German fellow, he is only the latest unfortunate victim that fell prey to reactive LOSERS... i do feel sorry for those farang who will continue to honk their horns and gesture in anger when cut off by motorcycles

signed: straight guy

Blitzed or not, if you test positive for THC, your license would be gone....

So now, according to you, the German fellow (a person you never met) is a member of the "reactive LOSERS" club.

Again I find this statement (ie Loser) to be ironic, coming from a self proclained former drug addict and "binge drinker." Alas, reformed and now an olympian.

LEARN how to read dakhar..I said the German fellow was the latest unfortunate victim to fall prey to REACTIVE losers.. the losers are the fellows on the motorcycles who reacted by killing the German..you are like one of those old records that skips..the same same same same..I am neither a drug addict nor an olympian..but if that is what you choose to keep saying..up 2 U

signed: reading correctly seems difficult for dakhar

[cognos]

"..May I respectfully suggest you conduct more thorough research and do not rely on your wife as your sole source of information regarding Thailand.

I fear when the veil falls from your eyes, you will have a hard landing..."

With respect

Briggsy

with all due respect, the wife tells me nothing in terms of what I write on TV..blame it ALL on me and my mere 7 trips to LOS..and I have no veil of alcohol haze to fall from my eyes, not that you do either

with respect, Cognos

[cognos]

"..and only a small warning beep, as opposed to a long blare.."

Yes, Yes, Yes.. spot on, as the Brits are wont to say

signed: someone gets it

[Ijustwannateach]

This doesn't apply to any single person here, but generally I find the need to identify others as losers in some way is a BIG sign of personal insecurity.

I get annoyed, angry, shake my head, etc., when I come across people who externalise their own problems, but generally it's not my job to collude with them. I'll offer them advice for change that might help. Usually they don't take it. Well, I tried.

The sad thing is if they are friends- not much anyone can do until they've sunk low enough that they prefer to change rather than continue in their sad way- and hopefully not continuing means change rather than self-destruction (whether self-initiated or invited).

[Dakhar]

"..special needs teacher.... Hmmm where I come from, your license would be revoked in a nano second, teaching while "blitzed" from "blazing" up a fatty in the boys room during recess is rather frowned upon.

But that is besides the point. Your rant and attempt of justifying the recent murder of a German fellow, that unfortunatley for him was not "melowed out" at the time of his death, is falling upon deaf ears..."

your ad-hominum cyber attacks and incorrect assertions are beyond the pale, like you sir. You are flaming me constantly, but I actually enjoy you showing your true colors again and again, spewing your cyber - venom .. I have no time to figure out your unfortunate predicament in life.. that of false judge and jury, willing to point fingers in the wrong direction, everywhere but towards the mirror ( that would be PROACTIVE) . I have a new name for you.. REACTION MAN.. ( because you can )

I never went to work anything but straight and sober, but you seem to know all, carry on existing in your deluded syndrome.

As for the German fellow, he is only the latest unfortunate victim that fell prey to reactive LOSERS... i do feel sorry for those farang who will continue to honk their horns and gesture in anger when cut off by motorcycles

signed: straight guy

Blitzed or not, if you test positive for THC, your license would be gone....

So now, according to you, the German fellow (a person you never met) is a member of the "reactive LOSERS" club.

Again I find this statement (ie Loser) to be ironic, coming from a self proclained former drug addict and "binge drinker." Alas, reformed and now an olympian.

LEARN how to read dakhar..I said the German fellow was the latest unfortunate victim to fall prey to REACTIVE losers.. the losers are the fellows on the motorcycles who reacted by killing the German..you are like one of those old records that skips..the same same same same..I am neither a drug addict nor an olympian..but if that is what you choose to keep saying..up 2 U

signed: reading correctly seems difficult for dakhar

Roger that, u r correct and I did misinterprit your post.... my bad.

Wow 7 trips to Thailand.... Whew, you sure got this place figured out.

My advice, if and when u move here... u may want to keep puffing the dragon in order to stay melow and have some remote grasp of sanity while in this country. Other wise this place may just remove your rose tinted glasses right quick.

Do I support self medication now? No, I am not saying it is right, but I do understand & if I could have found my sleeping pills... I wouldn't even respond to your post (react) I'd be sleeping like a baby.

Signed:

Keep Blazing and if I am lucky, I'll keep snoring

[cognos]

Dakhar..was going to PM you, but in public works as well..just got back from church..its a small one, about 40 people, 80% Thai expats living in Canada..and i know that one thing I need to keep in mind is to have a smaller and smaller ego, and a bigger God in my life.. that is my way to be proactive to improve my life, and to be in a position to help others, such as many of the needy and homeless in this area.

I will forth with take the high road, and treat you with the respect that you deserve. To judge someone negatively from a few posts would be a big mistake on my part. To judge at all is not my job description.

btw, I have empathy for the farang who get pissed off and react in a way that provokes the locals. My job here was to attempt to mitigate or even convince perhaps ONE person to take the high road and perhaps turn the other cheek when cut off by a thai on a motorcycle, for example. Of course if someone is in danger of being killed, the driver should honk to warn the other that they may be, or are in danger.

The problem is.. the honking by a pissed off driver to "warn" the other guy. As we have seen, this reactive move can often lead to catastrophic results

signed: Take care, and God bless, no offence intended

[cognos]

. and one needs to differentiate CLEARLY between..

.

A..honking to warn someone you are pissed off, or to send a "message" as such.. and..

B. ..to honk to warn someone that they need to do something QUICKLY to avoid an accident. The two are apples and oranges, as different as night and day

A. will NOT be appreciated, as we have CLEARLY seen, and B is appreciated or at least tolerated

Now if someone is getting killed for honking as in example B... then I will simply stop driving a car in LOS as much as possible

[ThailandTommy]

Cognos

I am sure you are a nice guy but this is just one in a series of threads in which the undertone is very clearly "Thai good everybody else bad".

Your source of info, probably your missus, is seemingly spouting the Thai nationalistic non-objective rubbish that was shoved down her neck at school and is regurgitated by most Thais as soon as any negative press regarding Thailand is encountered. You seem to be swallowing this propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Thailand has many social problems, a high crime rate, a massive, mainly domestic, sex industry, enormous social inequality, heavy pollution and accompanying cancer rates, a very corrupt police force and ineffective legal system.

This is not to say there are many good points about Thailand but your view is clearly unbalanced and takes a highly racial viewpoint that suggests the existence of 2 species, Thais and farangs.

May I respectfully suggest you conduct more thorough research and do not rely on your wife as your sole source of information regarding Thailand.

I fear when the veil falls from your eyes, you will have a hard landing.

With respect

Briggsy

Well put, took the words out of my mouth, why shouldn't I react when I get overcharged or should I just pay and turn the other cheek, and hand over my wallet?

Yeah right get a real life!

[Loz]

Brigsy has a point. But I think Congos is simply saying Respond. Don't just react.

I could be wrong but in short I think he means make a considered response rather than a knee jerk reaction. Nothing inherently wrong with that advice. But given that his source material for commenting Thailand seems at best, "thin", I can understand why its been met with criticism.

Cognos, I like reading your posts. You are one of a few that I will stop and read if I see your name on a thread. But hand on heart, I can't help but feel you might not have the clearest of pictures about LoS YET. But of course, time is on your side.

Signed: Concerned Friendly Forumeer

[cognos]

"..Well put, took the words out of my mouth, why shouldn't I react when I get overcharged or should I just pay and turn the other cheek, and hand over my wallet?.."

you have CHOICES..you can ( and surely WILL) react when you get "overcharged", just be prepared to suffer the potential consequences.

signed: and I hope there are none

[cognos]

"..I could be wrong but in short I think he means make a considered response rather than a knee jerk reaction. Nothing inherently wrong with that advice. But given that his source material for commenting Thailand seems at best, "thin", I can understand why its been met with criticism..."

..knee jerk reactions cause problems, as we have seen too often lately, but some will not be able to resist, unfortunately. Source material is from the school of life, like teaching 7 years in protective custody with murderers and sex offenders, so I know a bit about the dark side of human nature, and knee jerk reactions. When in LOS I do hang around with a few farang, of different stripes, but more with my large and extended family of Thai relatives.

signed: correct, 7 trips to LOS does not make me an expert..trip 8 coming up

[cognos]

some of my farang friends in LOS.. a former French foreign Legionaire, 2 volunteer tourist police.. the usual suspects..etc..

some of my Thai friends in LOS.. a volunteer Pattaya policeman/ tour operator..a BKK muslim taxi driver/womanizer...etc..

signed: thin, but not devoid of experience in LOS

[flemmie]

Just thinking of the courtesy the Frenchman was shown by the "nice gentleman" with the tuk tuk in Phuket.

We don't know what was said by the Frenchman before the driver whacked him. It takes two to Tango.

Doesn't really matter, "whacking" is not an option!!

[Dakhar]

Just thinking of the courtesy the Frenchman was shown by the "nice gentleman" with the tuk tuk in Phuket.

We don't know what was said by the Frenchman before the driver whacked him. It takes two to Tango.

Doesn't really matter, "whacking" is not an option!!

Danielson,

Wack ON.... Wack OFF...

[cognos]

Danielson,

Wack ON.... Wack OFF...

with all the lovely Thai women in LOS, that reactive gesture is unecessary me thinks

signed: no need