Death Threats Against Judges

[Credo]

What line has been crossed? Is there a line? I can't see the line, it keeps moving!

[SM7WGP]

Do you really believe everything that you are reading

This can also be a smear campaign from the Government side.

[rixalex]

This can also be a smear campaign from the Government side.

Nah. It's simply a crazy red-shirt smearing himself. Incredible the lengths some people go to to try and spin these stories around.

[OZEMADE]

This can also be a smear campaign from the Government side.

Nah. It's simply a crazy red-shirt smearing himself. Incredible the lengths some people go to to try and spin these stories around.

Sounds to me like, if you dont make the right decision we wont protect you. Are they trying to influence the judges decision.

[RKASA]

Wag the dog Wag the dog

edit typo

Edited January 31, 2010 by RKASA

[Insight]

What line has been crossed? Is there a line? I can't see the line, it keeps moving!

A common side effect of wearing red, or yellow (truth be told).

[ivowatson]

This subject was not an exclusive Nation article. It was published by other news sources as well including Thai press and reported on Thai TV.

Indeed and those papers have a different way of reporting. For example ,one paper writes that when Deputy Prime Minister for security affairs Suthep Thaugsuban wasn asked about the warning by Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol, that there were plots to assassinate the court judges, members of the National Anti-Corruption Commission and members of the now defunct Assets Scrutiny Committee, Mr Suthep is quoted as saying "it was not the case to worry about."

This is alot like the case of the mysterious grenade that was thrown. Deputy PM Suthep is also quoted in the same article as saying there was no grenade tossed.

Know what? I'm going to believe the Deputy PM and not the Nation.

It's not the first time some parts of society stir up sh*t. The Hearst newspapers and Joseph Pulitzer aligned itself with a political faction and their cheap & tawdry headlines amplified the drumbeats of war and worked the American public into a frenzy so that there was an American Spanish war. In the words of the noted American philosopher Yogi Berra, It's Deja Vu all over again.

So, you don't believe a word The Nation publishes but you do believe old Suthep. You're funny man. LOL! Even his wife doesn't believe him anymore.

[scorecard]

If there was any element of conspiracy behind it surely Thaksin would be on his Twit denouncing him ASAP? Surely you've seen the recent photo of psycho, Thaksin and the Khmer all loved up?

Agree, thaksin has many times claimed that he is the 'champion of democracy for Thailand'. If he was genuine he would have quickly disowned this madman and his statements?

And the same point for the udd/red shirts, they also claim they are the 'champions of democracy', so why haven't they denounced this man's statements and disowned him as a leader of udd/red shirts?

[Ricardo]

Agree, thaksin has many times claimed that he is the 'champion of democracy for Thailand'. If he was genuine he would have quickly disowned this madman and his statements?

And the same point for the udd/red shirts, they also claim they are the 'champions of democracy', so why haven't they denounced this man's statements and disowned him as a leader of udd/red shirts?

Perhaps they don't read 'the Nation' ?

[Insight]

Agree, thaksin has many times claimed that he is the 'champion of democracy for Thailand'. If he was genuine he would have quickly disowned this madman and his statements?

And the same point for the udd/red shirts, they also claim they are the 'champions of democracy', so why haven't they denounced this man's statements and disowned him as a leader of udd/red shirts?

Perhaps they don't read 'the Nation' ?

Apparently he's a big fan.

[MAJIC]

My reaction was similar to geriatrickid's. While no lover of Sae Daeng or the Red leadership or Thaksin, I didn't see that Sae Daeng had done more than warn the judges. He wasn't endorsing assassination attempts, (though he obviously sympathizes with the fanatics). It looked like another "beat-up" by the Nation (a less than reliable medium) and the manic Sae Daeng is such an easy target.

If he really cared for the judges' welfare, why not send them a private message? It's very clear that by going public with these stupid thoughts, the intent is to both intimidate the judges, and put ideas in people's minds (red fanatics). It's disgusting.

Thais speaking publicly on touchy subjects are never direct,

but hint at various levels of directness.

They put the message in indirect terms almost always, in that sense he is being quite Thai,

but also this is MUCH more direct than typical and no Thai will miss the point.

For a Thai speaking this is very direct, sure he isn't going to say

'MY TEAMS ARE GOING TO TOP THE JUDGES, IF THE RULE AGAINST THE BOSS.'.

They don't talk like that. But that is certainly implied strongly in Thai style.

Add to that that the LAST several times he has made a prognostication like this,

the incident happens one of more times almost exactly as he says it will.

Pad at GH don't leave they will be driven out with force. Boom; grenades for 3 nights.

He wants to meet with Thaksin; He crosses the border and does a photo op, and implied threats.

If Anupong disciplines him, he can't go out and not worry: Boom; grenade.

Judges can expect to be attacked either bore or after the Thaksin verdict : .....

Sorry this is not coincidentally accurate prediction,

but a direct threat in Thai style, for both before and after the verdict

at the judges who can't be bought off.

I see this thread and the 'Do we need to fear this general?' meaning Anupongs replacement,

and juxtapose the two.. this guy is a loose cannon hoping to become

main man in the Thai army if his puyai wins the day. His choice of Fortune!

THIS cat I fear big time.

Undoubtedly a veiled threat posing as information to the public and a warning to the Judges, a self fulfilling prophecy even.

"either before or after the Thaksin verdict" can mean only one thing: you Judges will never be safe unless you give a

verdict that enables Thaksin to get his money back.

Wouldnt be surprised if this man organises a coup if the verdict goes against Thaksin.

[geriatrickid]

Sounds to me like, if you dont make the right decision we wont protect you. Are they trying to influence the judges decision.

An understandable conclusion. Unfortunately, I think a great many statements from both sides are being twisted out of context to suit the purposes of the factions.

So, you don't believe a word The Nation publishes but you do believe old Suthep. You're funny man. LOL! Even his wife doesn't believe him anymore.

Well, he is the Deputy PM and is a representative of the government. His statement was reported in other news sources and I have the feeling that the Nation has allowed its political position to bias the reporting. Although, I am not a fan of the current government, I believe it at times. The Deputy PM is trying to keep a lid on the rumours and drumbeats of civil commotion.

So far, no one claiming a Thaksin conspiracy in the making has really answered the question as to why the military did not use the powers it has to shut the general up. Either this event is being used as a means of stirring the pot of sh*t, or it just isn't what it has been made out to be. I'm going to side with the government on this one, that it is just part of the idiotic politicing that is splattering about. Like the imaginary grenade, this story is more hot air.

[phil2]

The general said nothing that hasn't been said in these forums before. He hasn't said that he would kill anyone, nor did he encourage violence. If the report is accurate, then he has merely stated the obvious. It is no big secret that violence is a distinct and real possibility.

I have the impression that this article appears in the Nation as part of an effort to foment anxiety and sow panic. Words can be twisted and taken out of context to mean anything. I certainly hope there is no violence directed at the judiciary and the government must protect the judges, but I do not think martial law is justified. And yes, that's where I think alot of this nonsense in the Nation is leading: Laying the justiification for a declaration of martial law and a suspension of habeas corpus and the right of assembly.

One loudmouth and the government turns it into panic central. It is easy to deal with him. Charge him under a breach of military rules, and confine him to base until he appears before the military tribunal. Interesting why nothing has really been done to date. If he was as dangerous as he is made out to be, why the f***k is he still in circulation? Either the military does not see him as a threat or he is being used by the current regime to provide "evidence" of a plot so that draconian measures can be enacted.

Ask yourselves why he is still out there and who's purpose it serves. Sorry, but this thing stinks. It's like a 1950's era banana republic coup in the making.

My reaction was similar to geriatrickid's. While no lover of Sae Daeng or the Red leadership or Thaksin, I didn't see that Sae Daeng had done more than warn the judges. He wasn't endorsing assassination attempts, (though he obviously sympathizes with the fanatics). It looked like another "beat-up" by the Nation (a less than reliable medium) and the manic Sae Daeng is such an easy target.

This subject was not an exclusive Nation article. It was published by other news sources as well including Thai press and reported on Thai TV.

Must be true then.

True. Bangkokpost, for example.

[LomSak27]

Geriatric kid postes

have the impression that this article appears in the Nation as part of an effort to foment anxiety and sow panic

Webfact posted

This subject was not an exclusive Nation article. It was published by other news sources as well including Thai press and reported on Thai TV.

Gee ... did the giant red lettering headline on Sundays Nation give that impression

And yes it was in the bangkok Post, 2nd page, -whew-

[webfact]

UPDATE

Gen Katiya to Report to Crime Suppression Today

BANGKOK: -- Reports indicate that suspended army specialist Major General Khattiya Sawasdipol will report to the Crime Suppression Division today around 10 or 11 A.M. He will arrive with a show of support from red shirt protesters and General Pallop Pinmanee.

-- Tan Network 2010-02-01

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[animatic]

Ah yes, the

obligatory show of support, with him in jail and 'martyrdom' looming,

one more focal point for rallies. As if he hasn't left his men with instructions

for the trouble to be cause when he's not free to consult?

The guy is no less dangerous, he's just falling on his sword for his puyai.

'See he's JUST like San Suu Lyi he's gone to jail for the cause...'

But generals give orders and 2nd Louies and grunts carry them out.

And his troups will continue the fight and he gets street cred for

doing time so he then can get elevated higher later.

Propaganda still happening.

[Insight]

So far, no one claiming a Thaksin conspiracy in the making has really answered the question as to why the military did not use the powers it has to shut the general up.

I feel like I'm on ignore Post #30 if you ever get round to it.

[Credo]

I doubt that you are on ignore, Insight. Somebody may be busy and ignoring everyone. This is a military matter and the military needs to take care of him. It has little to do with Abhisit. Of course, if the military and the politicians weren't so incestuous, it might be easier.

[tonywebster]

whatever your preference, one fact remains. Thailand was more stable and better performing with him in power and this can not be disputed. Of course the yellow shirted followers on here will dispute this and talk about extra judicial shootings etc, but you can not deny that thailand has gone down the pan since the 2007 coup.

personally I would rather an election be called and have a party in power that was voted into power, be it thaksins mob or the democrats, but at least be there because the people wanted you there and not because you snuck in through the back door.

On another note I have read back on the forum and see lots of people calling for Thaksin to serve his sentence, these seem to have dropped off since sondhi was given sentences that he is yet to serve, the hypocrisy on this forum is deafening at times. Also it is possible to be anti yellow shirt, anti democrat and anti Thaksin all at the same time, it seems on here if you don't support the yellows or the dems you must be pro Thaksin, weird eh?

[geriatrickid]

Geriatric kid postes

have the impression that this article appears in the Nation as part of an effort to foment anxiety and sow panic

Webfact posted

This subject was not an exclusive Nation article. It was published by other news sources as well including Thai press and reported on Thai TV.

Gee ... did the giant red lettering headline on Sundays Nation give that impression

And yes it was in the bangkok Post, 2nd page, -whew-

Yes. And now compare the two stories. A different way of presenting the info. I based my original comments on the 2nd source.

The 2nd source has what I would term a more calm reporting. The Pattya Daily News is my 3rd source which I believe is used in TV also has a calmer version. My 4th source is the Asian RSS feed I have. As an aside, I find that the PDN is less hysterical and more focused on the facts in its news reporting and consider it more reliable than its larger english language competitors.

[way2muchcoffee]

whatever your preference, one fact remains. Thailand was more stable and better performing with him in power and this can not be disputed. Of course the yellow shirted followers on here will dispute this and talk about extra judicial shootings etc, but you can not deny that thailand has gone down the pan since the 2007 coup.

Started to go down the pan since 2005 when Thaksin's various corruption schemes began to blow up on him.

personally I would rather an election be called and have a party in power that was voted into power, be it thaksins mob or the democrats, but at least be there because the people wanted you there and not because you snuck in through the back door.

There was no sneaking in. Only a re-alignment of coalition parties. The democrats and ppp were evenly matched in the proportional vote of Thailand in 2007. Bear in mind that the proportional vote is the only real measure of popularity of a party because the proportional vote is one man one vote. I reckon if the TRT-PPP-PTP had had a bit more honesty and integrity Thailand would not be in the position it is in.

Elections cannot be called, obviously, because the red shirts prevent democrats from campaigning. No free and fair vote can be possible until this situation is fixed.

On another note I have read back on the forum and see lots of people calling for Thaksin to serve his sentence, these seem to have dropped off since sondhi was given sentences that he is yet to serve, the hypocrisy on this forum is deafening at times. Also it is possible to be anti yellow shirt, anti democrat and anti Thaksin all at the same time, it seems on here if you don't support the yellows or the dems you must be pro Thaksin, weird eh?

Hypocrisy? Where? Sondhi should definitely serve his sentence. It is presently under appeal. Thaksin decided not to appeal the verdict in his case.

What is weird is that red shirts support Thaksin first and foremost, regardless of their ideology. So it is quite impossible not to identify red shirts as Thaksin supporters. When the leadership of the red shirts divorces their movement from Thaksin then it will be possible to identify the red shirts as a legitimate grassroots movement.

What is also weird is that people assume democrats and PAD are the same organization. PAD was a grassroots organization protesting the massive corruption of Thaksin. Now they are a political party of their own right. The Democrats have been a party for a long time. They have little to do with the PAD, though some Democrats are or were PAD sympathizers. Most of the sympathy for the PAD disappeared the day they took over the airport, with the exception of Kasit. Many Democrat supporters believe that Kasit should never have been appointed to the position of Foreign Minister. I agree. So there you have it. There is only a very weak connection between the PAD (yellow shirts) and the Democrats. Most foreigners here are Democrat supporters, or even the more restrictive Abhisit supporters.

But then again you know all this already.

[LomSak27]

Seemed a healthy robust relationship between the Democratic Party and PAD - up until the time the Democrats thought their interests best served by distancing themselves from PAD, and the hypocritical wrist slap given to Sondhi & PAD for occupying Government house and then the airport, causing untold billions in damage, plus the ongoing damage this act caused

I was a Dem/PAD supporter up until the day I realized that only carried about removing Thaksin and de-fanging the populist power bloc he created. As the Nation stated a year ago 'it's not about corruption, it's about Thaksin' that’s where they lost me. If they are not going to do anything substantive about corruption in this country why would I support them?

Most foreigners here are Democrat supporters, or even the more restrictive Abhisit supporters.

Most foreigners here have the idea (fed to them) that Thaksin was mssively corrupt. Once he is removed things have to improve. While Mr Thaksin was indeed corrupt, so are his opponents. This fact may dawn on some of the foreigners who reside here after a few years. Overall has corruption in Thai society decreased since his removal? - if it has not then why bother to support Abhisit and the Dems. If the people want Thaksin and voted him in - so be it

[Samuian]

Animatic, if he is to be feared today, then he should have been feared last week. He should have been feared last month, and last year. Answer the question that was raised; If he is to be feared, why is he still walking around? The military could have confined him to a base or a post. The military could have charged him long ago. Why didn't they?

He has as much chance of becoming military boss as you have of becoming Miss Universe.

you gave the answer yourself: "He has as much chance of becoming military boss as you have of becoming Miss Universe."

...it's about losing face, till now the army respects him, or gives him respect, but he isn't really playing with the rules, it might have to do with some retirement money which is waved behind his back from .... well, from where..?

After all it's not all that difficult, is it?

And "little Rambo" is, well to say it mildly enough "up himself" to fal for the magicians trickery... you/one might believe otherwise, but this is how I see the situation!

But then "the man" would have been much better off, to get some real professionals for this..then such rally bad bunglers and botchers... agreed?

[webfact]

UPDATE

Metropolitan police to tighten security for key figures

BANGKOK: -- Feb1 (TNA) - Thailand's Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban on Monday instructed metropolitan police to tighten security for important persons following a warning of the possible assassination of judges and anti-corruption commissioners involved with the upcoming assets seizure case of convicted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Mr Suthep, who oversees national security, said he has ordered the metropolitan police to closely monitor the situation, while noticing that recent moves might be linked to Mr Thaksin.

Major Genenal Khattiya Sawasdipol, an army specialist known as 'Seh Deang', warned last week of possible ‘death threats’ against judges, members of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) and former members of the now defunct Assets Examination Committee (AEC) as the judges are scheduled to hand down a verdict on February 26 whether the Bt76 billion in frozen assets were accumulated illegally by Mr Thaksin while he was prime minister and should be seized.

Mr Suthep earlier said Gen Khattiya's warning should be investigated and it must be determined whether to consider it as "intimidation" and if it is, action must be taken against him, for threats can't be made against judges or courts.

Mr Thaksin was ousted in a bloodless coup in September 2006 and is now living in exile after he was convicted in absentia two years in prison on corruption charges regarding the controversial Bangkok's Ratchadapisek land purchase. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-02-01

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

UPDATE

Senators urge legal action against Khattiya over death threats

Two leading senators Monday called on the government to take legal action against suspended Army officer Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol for failing to inform the authorities about the assassination attempts against judges and anti-graft officials.

Prasarn Maruekhapitak, a leader of the so-called 40 Senator group, said Khattiya talked twice about attempts on the life of judges of the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Office.

Prasarn said Khattiya claimed to know the mastermind of the attempts but he failed to inform the authorities.

Somchai Sawaengkarn, another leader of the 40 senators, said Khattiya earlier came out to raise similar threats and later untoward incidents happened as threatened.

Somchai said police must interrogate Khattiya how he had learnt about the assassination attempts and must take legal actions accordingly if he is found to get involved.

-- The Nation 2010-02-01

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

UPDATE

Maj-Gen Khattiya reports to Crime Suppression Division to acknowledge illegal arms possession charges

Source: MCOT-NEWS

2010-02-01

[Bagwan]

Why not suggest to this unstable troublemaker that if any judge or official is assassinated then he will immediately suffer the same fate? Of course, that is only a rumour and nobody has any idea who will perform the cleansing.

Any bets that this loony will shortly change his address to one across the border thus joining up with a few mates of his?

[tonywebster]

whatever your preference, one fact remains. Thailand was more stable and better performing with him in power and this can not be disputed. Of course the yellow shirted followers on here will dispute this and talk about extra judicial shootings etc, but you can not deny that thailand has gone down the pan since the 2007 coup.

Started to go down the pan since 2005 when Thaksin's various corruption schemes began to blow up on him.

personally I would rather an election be called and have a party in power that was voted into power, be it thaksins mob or the democrats, but at least be there because the people wanted you there and not because you snuck in through the back door.

There was no sneaking in. Only a re-alignment of coalition parties. The democrats and ppp were evenly matched in the proportional vote of Thailand in 2007. Bear in mind that the proportional vote is the only real measure of popularity of a party because the proportional vote is one man one vote. I reckon if the TRT-PPP-PTP had had a bit more honesty and integrity Thailand would not be in the position it is in.

Elections cannot be called, obviously, because the red shirts prevent democrats from campaigning. No free and fair vote can be possible until this situation is fixed.

On another note I have read back on the forum and see lots of people calling for Thaksin to serve his sentence, these seem to have dropped off since sondhi was given sentences that he is yet to serve, the hypocrisy on this forum is deafening at times. Also it is possible to be anti yellow shirt, anti democrat and anti Thaksin all at the same time, it seems on here if you don't support the yellows or the dems you must be pro Thaksin, weird eh?

Hypocrisy? Where? Sondhi should definitely serve his sentence. It is presently under appeal. Thaksin decided not to appeal the verdict in his case.

What is weird is that red shirts support Thaksin first and foremost, regardless of their ideology. So it is quite impossible not to identify red shirts as Thaksin supporters. When the leadership of the red shirts divorces their movement from Thaksin then it will be possible to identify the red shirts as a legitimate grassroots movement.

What is also weird is that people assume democrats and PAD are the same organization. PAD was a grassroots organization protesting the massive corruption of Thaksin. Now they are a political party of their own right. The Democrats have been a party for a long time. They have little to do with the PAD, though some Democrats are or were PAD sympathizers. Most of the sympathy for the PAD disappeared the day they took over the airport, with the exception of Kasit. Many Democrat supporters believe that Kasit should never have been appointed to the position of Foreign Minister. I agree. So there you have it. There is only a very weak connection between the PAD (yellow shirts) and the Democrats. Most foreigners here are Democrat supporters, or even the more restrictive Abhisit supporters.

But then again you know all this already.

well in your opinion it went downhill after 2005, in my opinion it went downhill after the coup.

sneaking in the back door is exactly what the dems did, they would not win an election, just as they have failed to win one for the past decade at least, they were put into power by the actions of the PAD and as a result were duty bound to give cabinet positions, hence kasit, do you really thing anyone in their right mind would have this clown in a position of authority otherwise?

I already know the difference between PAD and the dems as you rightly point out but I disagree that there is just a weak connection between the PAD and the dems, the link has become more tenuous ad time has gone on but initially there was a stronger link.

the election can be called anytime, should the reds do as you have suggested then in reality is this any different to the PAD forcing opposition parties to not stand when Thaksin did the correct democratic thing and call and election before the coup.

You reap what you sew in life and everything that people accuse one colour of doing the other colour did just as bad.

I never called you a hypocrite personally so don't get so defensive, I am merely pointing pout the lack of comments about Thaksin serving his sentence from the Thaier than Thai yellow shirt posters on here since sondhi was given his sentence, hopefully this will be followed up by more when/if he gets to trial for his airport and GH takeovers.

as for the PAD being a grassroots organisation, lets be frank here, they were created because one ego maniac could not handle being cast aside by another egomaniac leading the country into freefall.

opinions are like <deleted> mate, we all have them and we can all get them to make different sounds

[way2muchcoffee]

well in your opinion it went downhill after 2005, in my opinion it went downhill after the coup.

sneaking in the back door is exactly what the dems did, they would not win an election, just as they have failed to win one for the past decade at least, they were put into power by the actions of the PAD and as a result were duty bound to give cabinet positions, hence kasit, do you really thing anyone in their right mind would have this clown in a position of authority otherwise?

I already know the difference between PAD and the dems as you rightly point out but I disagree that there is just a weak connection between the PAD and the dems, the link has become more tenuous ad time has gone on but initially there was a stronger link.

the election can be called anytime, should the reds do as you have suggested then in reality is this any different to the PAD forcing opposition parties to not stand when Thaksin did the correct democratic thing and call and election before the coup.

You reap what you sew in life and everything that people accuse one colour of doing the other colour did just as bad.

I never called you a hypocrite personally so don't get so defensive, I am merely pointing pout the lack of comments about Thaksin serving his sentence from the Thaier than Thai yellow shirt posters on here since sondhi was given his sentence, hopefully this will be followed up by more when/if he gets to trial for his airport and GH takeovers.

as for the PAD being a grassroots organisation, lets be frank here, they were created because one ego maniac could not handle being cast aside by another egomaniac leading the country into freefall.

opinions are like <deleted> mate, we all have them and we can all get them to make different sounds

Thank you for the well-balanced and articulate comment. Greatly appreciated.

Edited February 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Ricardo]

whatever your preference, one fact remains. Thailand was more stable and better performing with him in power and this can not be disputed. Of course the yellow shirted followers on here will dispute this and talk about extra judicial shootings etc, but you can not deny that thailand has gone down the pan since the 2007 coup.

personally I would rather an election be called and have a party in power that was voted into power, be it thaksins mob or the democrats, but at least be there because the people wanted you there and not because you snuck in through the back door.

On another note I have read back on the forum and see lots of people calling for Thaksin to serve his sentence, these seem to have dropped off since sondhi was given sentences that he is yet to serve, the hypocrisy on this forum is deafening at times. Also it is possible to be anti yellow shirt, anti democrat and anti Thaksin all at the same time, it seems on here if you don't support the yellows or the dems you must be pro Thaksin, weird eh?

I believe that the coup you're referring to took place in September 2006, not 2007 ?

Do you believe that PM-Somchai "snuck in through the back door", or do you think the people accepted his replacement of PM-Samak, the man some of them had voted for ? Coalition-politics goes both ways, after all. Most of those smaller-parties, who had helped the PPP into power, had promised explicitly not to do so, during the December-2007 election-campaign.

I personally look forward to seeing Sondhi, or indeed Thaksin, or any other poo-yai who gets convicted, serving their time but unfortunately Thaksin 'did a runner', and now prates on about 'justice' from overseas. That's a genuine example of hypocrisy !