Death Threats Against Judges

[Thai at Heart]

People led to believe all but their leaders are lying to them never believe outsiders.

Cult mentality 100%

Sort of like grandmas sitting in the sun for months wearing yellow shirts......

[scorecard]

If the judges do their job properly, they got nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, the way I see it, their defensiveness and anxiety pretty much speaks for itself.

Hi Boris, long time no see!

What defensiveness?

- The judges have not reacted.

- The government has reacted and they should react, it's their duty to react when there is any any form of threats against any citizen.

- Sae daeng is not to be ignored totally, he's not exactly balanced and rational, he's made threats and he's been involved in violence before.

- If they didn't reaact I can just imagaine your criticism that they are not protecting people.

[scorecard]

.......yes i know this but sadly a lot of the posters on here see the reds as only toothless farmers from up north.

Not true. The farmers from anywhere, like all citizens, are entitled to their thoughts and their vote. And can you quote where other posters have said they are 'toothless tigers'?

In fact I believe that quite a number of the red shirts wouldn't hesitate to be violent if they were encouraged to do so by their leaders (now including sae daeng). Just look at the incidents in Pattya and Chaing Mai and more. You definitely cannot say thet are non-violent.

What many posters see is that the 'farmers' (as you call them) are told many untruths and are manipulated by very unscrupulous people who can't even spell the word democracy, but would ask us to believe that they are a genuine democracy movement.

Edited February 2, 2010 by scorecard

[animatic]

People led to believe all but their leaders are lying to them never believe outsiders.

Cult mentality 100%

Sort of like grandmas sitting in the sun for months wearing yellow shirts......

Certainly there was an element of cultishness to keep the fervor up.

And certainly there was this us against them attitude.

Then again they were violently attacked regularly

and that tends to make groups pull in and circle the wagons,

and question strangers closely.

Still it was a bit less of 'the cult of Sondhi', but more cult of the committee

which didn't always agree and had decidedly different factions.

So cult like in some ways, but also more like several smaller cults,

come together for a larger cause.

Certainly Chamlongs Santi Asoke sect fits this view point.

But their reasons to be in PAD appeared to bemuch different than many others.

While there is a definite feel of 'Cult of Thaksin' in this whole PTP Red Shirt deal.

At least as long as the money lasts...

[scorecard]

yes i know this but sadly a lot of the posters on here see the reds as only toothless farmers from up north..

Ask how much the patient paid for the new set of supposedly "tungsten steel teeth", which haven't been put to the test yet...

the bill might be very steep, as it is a wide known fact that for a couple of Baht one can buy ANY service in this country!

If Katthiya is "innocent" why does he need such heavyweights - it's blown out of proportion as usual, but bares the soignature of someone who is getting more desperate by the day and keeps making it worse!

The Nation is simply back to the "good old golden days" of the Thaksin Era when each and everyone who even dared... was sued and counter sued and sued, and sued till the end of his "breath"...

It doesn't matter if the judges would rule in his complete favor... it still would be wrong, next would be Amnesty for all (his supporters), next, amendment of the constitution at his will...next, next, next, next... he wont stop!

And do you really want to see:

- Chalerm as PM (and quickly back to his rampant and open nepotism) or

- Chavalit as PM (basically lead the meltdown in 97 and the only answer he had was to set up Thai restaurants across the world - great way to create jobs at home)

- Jatuporn as Foreign Minister (the mother of all liars in parliament)

- Arisman as Interior Minister (known for violence)

- Sae daeng as Defence Minister (no comment needed)

- Sudarat as Health Minister (several milk scandals come to mind)

- The son as minister for small business (he's got a great track record - about 4 quick business failures already)

- The Election Commission padded to the hilt with parliamentarians who were found guilty of vote buying and banned but now have amnesty to raid the cookie jar again.

- The police and military somehow see a mass movement of certain family memebers all suddenly promoted 4 or 5 ranks

- Unsavoury deals with Burma which make Thailand a laughing stock globally.

- The judiciary and the press intimidated.

Is that what you rally want? I hope not.

[Thai at Heart]

People led to believe all but their leaders are lying to them never believe outsiders.

Cult mentality 100%

Sort of like grandmas sitting in the sun for months wearing yellow shirts......

Certainly there was an element of cultishness to keep the fervor up.

And certainly there was this us against them attitude.

Then again they were violently attacked regularly

and that tends to make groups pull in and circle the wagons,

and question strangers closely.

Still it was a bit less of 'the cult of Sondhi', but more cult of the committee

which didn't always agree and had decidedly different factions.

So cult like in some ways, but also more like several smaller cults,

come together for a larger cause.

Certainly Chamlongs Santi Asoke sect fits this view point.

But their reasons to be in PAD appeared to bemuch different than many others.

While there is a definite feel of 'Cult of Thaksin' in this whole PTP Red Shirt deal.

At least as long as the money lasts...

For some, there was a "certain cultishness" and yes a definite "them against us" attitude.

A bit less or a bit more of the "Cult of Sondhi" as you say, who has definitely studied his somewhat dodgy books about how to drive a crowd to a frenzy in his own understated very humble, affronted, poor, mealy way. If Abhisit has any balls, he will never let the PAD rally like they did before. I hope in a year or two he will have the support of the army to be able to make them stop this childishness.

The yellows were unified to bring down Thaksin. They had to be.

The problem is that who they delivered (Abhisit and Korn) neither had the popular mandate or the muscle to do what they want to do. I see a perfect analogy in old fashioned British sport and doing the "right thing". Abhisit and Korn will continue to do the right honorable thing because this is what they were brought up to do, and the rest will do what they do.

Good luck to Abhisit and Korn and I don't really care what shirt they wear, because it is obvious that they aren't really yellow, they aren't really pro-army and they aren't pro Thaksin. In effect they are pro-King's Road, just like every public school boy should be. Take care of your countrymen and get ahead as best you can.

I am not pro-Thaksin in an aimless way. I am so glad that Surayud too got his punishment. That in itself was one of the most momentous days in Thai legal history.

Thaksin has to be dealt with and placated. What they have done to him and his family goes beyond the punishment that has ever befallen a supposed insider who did wrong. I fear that also the Privy Council has damaged itself and must be refreshed soon.

[animatic]

I can essentially agree in all but the last sentence.

If Thaksin had done what all other Thais have done when stepping down involuntarily,

and that is quietly go away and be silent for a spell, most things would have been forgiven and forgotten.

He didn't.

Look at the impressive laundry list of EX Pms and EX 'Leaders' or other names...,

the ones who just moved on, toned it down, and quietly went to pasture for 5-10 years,

kept most of their cash, still did business and lived quite comfortable lives,

without the leaderships power fix. One or two left the country for a long spell,

and one or two way back never returned. Most just went to pasture or went to ground.

Thaksin didn't take 'The Thai Way Out', he had to make the mother of all stinks.

If he had shut up and gone away, most all of his money would have followed him shortly.

He has prolonged this crisis, and exacerbated it 100 fold, and for THAT he is being raked over the coals.

If he had 'quietly' done his 6 months, in bribed up luxury,

and moved one this would be a quite different story.

But it seems his ego could not let go, and Potajamin saw that and took a powder,

and Newin saw that and moved to greener pastures, Somkid saw it in 2006 and blew him off,

Banharn & Sanoh... bye bye Dr. T. Chamlong blew him off a long time back:

the list of people once tight with Thaksin, who no longer are, is impressive too.

And Chalerm... well so few want him, he stuck around.

Ole uncle 'Big Jiew' Chavalit, screwed the pooch in '97, sunk the WHOLE bloody region,

he went quiet for years, now he's back for one more hurrah or is that prat fall....

Al around him saw this and backed down, Potjamin is very silent except for one court filing recently,

and that pertaining to salvaging SOME wealth for herself as she knows her ex has gone too far.

She bet on the wrong horse and let it ride a few races too many. The jockey got off.

Thaksin is reaping what his hubris as brought him too,

and only he can be found to blame by his family.

Edited February 2, 2010 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

I can essentially agree in all but the last sentence.

If Thaksin had done what all other Thais have done when stepping down involuntarily,

and that is quietly go away and be silent for a spell, most things would have been forgiven and forgotten.

He didn't.

Look at the impressive laundry list of EX Pms and EX 'Leaders' or other names...,

the ones who just moved on, toned it down, and quietly went to pasture for 5-10 years,

kept most of their cash, still did business and lived quite comfortable lives,

without the leaderships power fix. One or two left the country for a long spell,

and one or two way back never returned. Most just went to pasture or went to ground.

Thaksin didn't take 'The Thai Way Out', he had to make the mother of all stinks.

If he had shut up and gone away, most all of his money would have followed him shortly.

He has prolonged this crisis, and exacerbated it 100 fold, and for THAT he is being raked over the coals.

If he had 'quietly' done his 6 months, in bribed up luxury,

and moved one this would be a quite different story.

But it seems his ego could not let go, and Potajamin saw that and took a powder,

and Newin saw that and moved to greener pastures, Somkid saw it in 2006 and blew him off,

Banharn & Sanoh... bye bye Dr. T. Chamlong blew him off a long time back:

the list of people once tight with Thaksin, who no longer are, is impressive too.

And Chalerm... well so few want him, he stuck around.

Ole uncle 'Big Jiew' Chavalit, screwed the pooch in '97, sunk the WHOLE bloody region,

he went quiet for years, now he's back for one more hurrah or is that prat fall....

Al around him saw this and backed down, Potjamin is very silent except for one court filing recently,

and that pertaining to salvaging SOME wealth for herself as she knows her ex has gone too far.

She bet on the wrong horse and let it ride a few races too many. The jockey got off.

Thaksin is reaping what his hubris as brought him too,

and only he can be found to blame by his family.

I presume you are answering me, since it appears so.

This is possibly where the nub reaches the crux.

It is all about perception. Did the more serious powers that be believe that Thaksin was going to change the country into a republic?

I don't really care one way or another, but we can all agree that there are many on all sides that have something to gain and something to lose.

I for one, being British see the value that he royal family bring to the country, and also appreciate not having a president. Some would disagree, but that is how I feel. I like the idea that a non political upper house tries to tame the extremes of the lower. I think also that Tony Blair is a liar and should be put to court for lying to the commons.

Now, this is 1000 miles away from the reality in Thailand.

There needs to be a distinct move, and I believe that Abhisit might just be able to pull it off to something approaching a genuine democracy. Firstly the army has to be put in it's place and if he can achieve it, he will go down in Thai history as a hero. He needs one man's approval.

Newin, Banharn, Chavalit, have to be moved out of the way. And, I don't blame Thaksin for teaming up with them, the system made it so. The army, the regional mafia, and most of all the CORRUPTION nee to be put to bed quietly.

I don't think Abhisit is fundamentally a bad man, he believes in a system and he is working with it. Other people believed that Thaksin wanted to change this system and look where it got him. The shame is that Thai people supposedly can't even know this.

[animatic]

It will take a generation starting with Abhisit and Korn to back off corruption,

as such a pervasive part of the Business Runs Politics culture.

But the example, they do their best to set, now, in bad times,

should bear some fruit in the good times, of some yet to be known future.

Mammals didn't freely arise and take over until something backed off the dinosaurs.

Now some might see that meteorite hit as a peoples revolution from Issan.

But I see it as already having hit... the dust is obscuring the view,

cellphones and SMS and Internet. The dinos can't fight it. Much as the China CCP is trying...

Thailand only has had conspicuous wealth the last 30-40 years,

and is only coming to grips with that and the communication age.

And that communication age will change everything, partly for

the good and partly for the bad, but no doubt communication will allow

a great many more people to learn and harness it for the betterment of

their country and families.

The more that the corrupt influences are kept from he controls of state,

the sooner more people can see how it COULD be run, if they harness their votes properly.

Democracy demands / requires an INFORMED electorate, which explains why

powerful interests try so hard to control what they know.

So todays fight is about the death throws of a later day dinosaur,

but be assured cut from the same bolt as the older versions,

maybe a bit better adapted to the current prevailing winds,

but not enough to survive. Old ways, but new winds of change, so to speak.

A new breed hatched from better protected eggs and based on Darwinian principles,

has appeared and will out graze and out breed it in the medium term.

Till then turf battles, like any fight over limited resources in a watershed,

will continue to happen until one thinking uber-dominant comes to the fore.

Communications will keep them more honest because more of the people

will more clearly see. The current fight is over who removes the publics blinkers

and how those blinkers are taken off. Traumatically ripped off or simply removed and put away.

Edited February 2, 2010 by animatic

[scorecard]

I can essentially agree in all but the last sentence.

If Thaksin had done what all other Thais have done when stepping down involuntarily,

and that is quietly go away and be silent for a spell, most things would have been forgiven and forgotten.

He didn't.

Look at the impressive laundry list of EX Pms and EX 'Leaders' or other names...,

the ones who just moved on, toned it down, and quietly went to pasture for 5-10 years,

kept most of their cash, still did business and lived quite comfortable lives,

without the leaderships power fix. One or two left the country for a long spell,

and one or two way back never returned. Most just went to pasture or went to ground.

Thaksin didn't take 'The Thai Way Out', he had to make the mother of all stinks.

If he had shut up and gone away, most all of his money would have followed him shortly.

He has prolonged this crisis, and exacerbated it 100 fold, and for THAT he is being raked over the coals.

If he had 'quietly' done his 6 months, in bribed up luxury,

and moved one this would be a quite different story.

But it seems his ego could not let go, and Potajamin saw that and took a powder,

and Newin saw that and moved to greener pastures, Somkid saw it in 2006 and blew him off,

Banharn & Sanoh... bye bye Dr. T. Chamlong blew him off a long time back:

the list of people once tight with Thaksin, who no longer are, is impressive too.

And Chalerm... well so few want him, he stuck around.

Ole uncle 'Big Jiew' Chavalit, screwed the pooch in '97, sunk the WHOLE bloody region,

he went quiet for years, now he's back for one more hurrah or is that prat fall....

Al around him saw this and backed down, Potjamin is very silent except for one court filing recently,

and that pertaining to salvaging SOME wealth for herself as she knows her ex has gone too far.

She bet on the wrong horse and let it ride a few races too many. The jockey got off.

Thaksin is reaping what his hubris as brought him too,

and only he can be found to blame by his family.

I presume you are answering me, since it appears so.

This is possibly where the nub reaches the crux.

It is all about perception. Did the more serious powers that be believe that Thaksin was going to change the country into a republic?

I don't really care one way or another, but we can all agree that there are many on all sides that have something to gain and something to lose.

I for one, being British see the value that he royal family bring to the country, and also appreciate not having a president. Some would disagree, but that is how I feel. I like the idea that a non political upper house tries to tame the extremes of the lower. I think also that Tony Blair is a liar and should be put to court for lying to the commons.

Now, this is 1000 miles away from the reality in Thailand.

There needs to be a distinct move, and I believe that Abhisit might just be able to pull it off to something approaching a genuine democracy. Firstly the army has to be put in it's place and if he can achieve it, he will go down in Thai history as a hero. He needs one man's approval.

Newin, Banharn, Chavalit, have to be moved out of the way. And, I don't blame Thaksin for teaming up with them, the system made it so. The army, the regional mafia, and most of all the CORRUPTION nee to be put to bed quietly.

I don't think Abhisit is fundamentally a bad man, he believes in a system and he is working with it. Other people believed that Thaksin wanted to change this system and look where it got him. The shame is that Thai people supposedly can't even know this.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE: "I don't think Abhisit is fundamentally a bad man, he believes in a system and he is working with it. Other people believed that Thaksin wanted to change this system and look where it got him. The shame is that Thai people supposedly can't even know this."

You say :"Thaksin wanted to change the system", so could you explain further, please:

- Change the 'system' to what?

- And what do you mean by 'system'?

- Why?

- What would be the benefits to all Thais of changing to a new/different 'system?

[animatic]

Change system equates a bit closer to radical change,

but yes change to WHAT? is the question of the day.

It is often implied based on Thaksin statements that republican goals,

and increased executive power over all, and possible presidency

WERE Thaksins preferred changes.

But now it's all different?

Thaksin keeps saying he wants a RETURN to 1997 constitution,

that he and his crew ran roughshod across.

So is that change back to something that wasn't working well?

It would benefit his plans to change to something he can control better.

And control is a Thaksin hallmark, he needs to control everything.

Cleaning up the system is a radical departure from the past,

but the system is essentially remaining the same,

the dems don't want to remove the added checks and balances.

So don't regress, but keep moving incrementally, but steadily forward

to limit corruptions pervasive influence.

Edited February 3, 2010 by animatic

[scorecard]

Change system equates a bit closer to radical change,

but yes change to WHAT? is the question of the day.

It is often implied based on Thaksin statements that republican goals,

and increased executive power over all, and possible presidency

WERE Thaksins preferred changes.

But now it's all different?

Thaksin keeps saying he wants a RETURN to 1997 constitution,

that he and his crew ran roughshod across.

So is that change back to something that wasn't working well?

It would benefit his plans to change to something he can control better.

And control is a Thaksin hallmark, he needs to control everything.

Cleaning up the system is a radical departure from the past,

but the system is essentially remaining the same,

the dems don't want to remove the added checks and balances.

So don't regress, but keep moving incrementally, but steadily forward

to limit corruptions pervasive influence.

Agree, thaksin showed again and again that he wanted to have absolute control and was a one man egomaniac band. His ministers etc., were all YES men in fact they were all too frightened to disagree with anything he said, or give to their own opinions or ideas.

The bureaucrats were also intimidated and many found themselves party to / embroiled in corruption and are even now too frightened to speak up because they will reveal their own involvement in corruption, and he seriously intimidated (working towards control) the judiciary, the press and more.

Let alone his one man shoot from the hip approach to the drug problem (read murder of 2,500 fellow Thais, also read personal vendetta.)

How could anybody ever allow this man go get back into any position of policy making or leadership (control).

I also agree that going back to the 2006 constitution would be a massive and disastrous step backwards for Thailand. In fact I suggest the current constitution needs to be made even stronger in terms of punishment for vote buying and needs much stronger controls on abuse of power and specific clauses which would prevent one person from gaining unchallenged control.

I also believe that Abhisit and Korn are the team who will lead Thailand into a new fairer and more law abiding society . But let's please remember that all parties (including the Democrats) have baggage, some more than others, and the Abhisit/Korn team have to work with all this surrounding them and slowly get the whole picture better. They have both made some brave decisions, give them time, please.

[hammered]

Korn is certainly the only Thai poltician to dat ewho has made proposals that would radically and meaningfully improve the lot of the poor over time. However, the Dems even if they agree with what he sayd arent very good at the PR to get it over. Ironically enough tif they stay in power a while and push it they may have to rely on BJT to get the message over and they are currently running some interesting and usually unmentioned PR campaigns of both a negative and positive style. Some say the reds struggling recently to get their message on target or to get momentum started is because iof precisely these campaigns.

As to judges guess it is pastry boxes first and big sticks second

.

[Hawk]

Simply eliminate the judges with cellphones, no mess, no bother, it works up north afterall.