Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Asmerom]

I nearly had a heart attack when the cashier at The Dome Condo told me, "I don't think we can refund your deposit" !!! What?? 24,000 baht !! Because I hadn't given them "at least 30 days notice" Obviously, in all contracts there is a clause asking for 30 days notice, but I've never before seen an onerous penalty attached;

"In case the tenant informs the moving out less than 30 days, the tenant agrees to forfeit the deposit to the Landlord". Two months rent !!

When I first moved in I had discussed the deposit at length with the owner who told me the reason for ithe levy was people leaving without paying. I had also thought she understood I that I was signing up fo thee months. She never once mentioned the clause about "forfeiting" and in my opinion it's inserted into the contract solely for the purpose of tricking innocents out of 24,000 baht. This assertion is maybe somewhat diluted in that after a couple of days feeling sick and angry about losing this money, the owner eventually relented and agreed to refund the money. OK. Thankyou very much for causing me days of worry. The icing on the cake :

I now discover that I've paid 980 baht for electricity for about two weeks. (1 bed condo) Previous bills having been about 350 baht. ( Pevious 3 bed house in Mae Rim- 450 a month)

New Condo renters DO READ THE CONTRACT, CHECK THE METRES IN AND OUT and QUERY THE BILLS. Don't put your trust in the goodwill of owners and managers. .

I know it sounds plain common sense and who would need to be reminded? Well ,me for one. And I'm not all that stupid. Of course I read the contract a couple of times so why didn't I give a months notice? Beats me.

[dave2]

i thought about moving there in dec 08 but after reading the rental terms which may have changed now ?

there was no way i was putting down that much deposit

5000 or 10000 baht i can walk away from no problem .... risk 24000 baht .... nahhh

dave2

[jdinasia]

Reminding people to read contracts is a good thing! Expecting a landlord to pay you money that you have forfeited due to not living up to the terms of a contract is, well, kinda silly.

[shepsel]

The Dome Residence's contract is in black and white, and when I first came to Chiang Mai they pointed out the clause in the terms of the contract. The electricity rate is quite standard for serviced apartments--although double or more than that of the official government rate.

I stayed there for one month, and had no trouble at all in getting back my deposit. They deducted the electricity and water chargers when they read the meter from my deposit.

[Asmerom]

Reminding people to read contracts is a good thing! Expecting a landlord to pay you money that you have forfeited due to not living up to the terms of a contract is, well, kinda silly.

I'm not so sure as you, that it's, "kinda silly" especially as the result of my well argued protests was a full refund, whereas you would have lost your deposit for a spell of absentmindedness. I think querying the onerous tems of a contract is perfectly sensible. In the UK the great British Public have won back millions of £££ from bank's by querying an onerous clause in their contracts levying unreasonable account charges. All retrospective. If something's unreasonable, contract or not,there's a good case for challenging it.

[jdinasia]

Reminding people to read contracts is a good thing! Expecting a landlord to pay you money that you have forfeited due to not living up to the terms of a contract is, well, kinda silly.

I'm not so sure as you, that it's, "kinda silly" especially as the result of my well argued protests was a full refund, whereas you would have lost your deposit for a spell of absentmindedness. I think querying the onerous tems of a contract is perfectly sensible. In the UK the great British Public have won back millions of £££ from bank's by querying an onerous clause in their contracts levying unreasonable account charges. All retrospective. If something's unreasonable, contract or not,there's a good case for challenging it.

1) If you got any money back you were lucky that the owner made an exception for you.

2) This is not the UK

[Asmerom]

1) If you got any money back you were lucky that the owner made an exception for you.

2) This is not the UK

Agreed on both counts.

[elektrified]

Sorry to hear about that. But glad you got it back!

I had problems getting my deposit back from the Huay Kaew Residence after staying there 7 months. It was a tense situation that went on for hours the day I moved out. In the end I did lose some money. I forget now but I think it was around 3,000 or more Baht. I followed the requirements of the contract (giving 30 days notice, etc....in fact I gave 45 days notice) but they still came up with a 'creative' reason to keep some of my money.

[el jefe]

1) If you got any money back you were lucky that the owner made an exception for you.

2) This is not the UK

Agreed on both counts.

So why is this thread subtitled "warning"? It should be about how wonderful Thailand is when you can get 24,000 baht that you are not entitled to.

[Asmerom]

So why is this thread subtitled "warning"? It should be about how wonderful Thailand is when you can get 24,000 baht that you are not entitled to.

Astonishing how many punters, presumably in full possesion of sound minds and the normal allotment of vertebrae should advocate rolling over to have their tummies tickled by wonderful Thais who try to con naive tourists out of oudles of money. It's such a peverse attitude it might almost be thought patronising.

[NancyL]

The Dome isn't a condo -- it's a serviced apartment. Everyone I know who has stayed there has been very happy with the place. I've heard no stories about them getting "creative" in a ploy to unproperly keep your deposit. As to electricity charges -- they may have been "estimating" previous charges and did a final reading (actual) when you left. Our electric utility in the U.S. did this some months.

Edited February 1, 2010 by NancyL

[jdinasia]

So why is this thread subtitled "warning"? It should be about how wonderful Thailand is when you can get 24,000 baht that you are not entitled to.

Astonishing how many punters, presumably in full possesion of sound minds and the normal allotment of vertebrae should advocate rolling over to have their tummies tickled by wonderful Thais who try to con naive tourists out of oudles of money. It's such a peverse attitude it might almost be thought patronising.

You agreed that it was luck .. and not some legal necessity or moral obligation that put money back into your pocket. and just like the UK statements you started with ...(this isn't the UK) ... you are not a naive tourist. Thinking you are getting conned because you abrogate the terms of a contract IS naive though. To imply that someone enforcing a contract that you willingly signed and then laying it on the Thai/Tourist thing is pretty condescending though!

(again -- congrats on being lucky -- and truly nothing personal on this .. but it was a contract that you agreed to then failed to meet the conditions of)

[Asmerom]

The Dome isn't a condo -- it's a serviced apartment. Everyone I know who has stayed there has been very happy with the place. I've heard no stories about them getting "creative" in a ploy to unproperly keep your deposit. As to electricity charges -- they may have been "estimating" previous charges and did a final reading (actual) when you left. Our electric utility in the U.S. did this some months.

I think you're probably right that most people are quite satisfied with their stay at The Dome. The prices are reasonable, the rooms are fine, the staff are helpful and friendly;its altogether well managed.There's just that totally unreasonable clause in the contract which can have no other purpose than to exact an onerous and totally unjustified, exhobitant penalty from an absentminded party. I left one week before my contract ended and my room had been let before I collected my deposit. Perhaps someone can offer a good reason for the inclusion of this clause other than trickery. You give only 28 days notice ; you lose 24,000 baht. Why do they need 30 days ?? It's unreasonable. Its a con. It's unacceptable. Beware!!

Other than that ,the rooms are OK. If you stay two or three months the rooms are not necessarily serviced.

[jdinasia]

If it was unreasonable why would you sign the contract? How can it be a con when you admit to knowing about it and signing the contract? How can it be unacceptable if in fact ... you signed the contract? Where I am 'from' you would lose your deposit in just the same way. You COULD sue to get some returned if the landlord rented it out BEFORE you moved out but by no means is it automatic.

Why include a clause like that in a rental contract? Simple, so you have the extra time to advertise and show a unit before it becomes vacant. The owner can't really rent it out UNTIL you give official notice. I spent the last 7 months in BKK with no lease after my one year lease expired. My landlord could have given me notice to move at any time (30 days notice) and so could I. Why make the deposit more than one month and still keep it? That falls into the 'what if' way of thinking... If the tenant had given proper notice the landlord may have been able to secure a better tenant than the one he got.

Again --- it just isn't fair to blame someone else for you signing the contract. (and again I am HAPPY the owner gave you your deposit back!)

[Asmerom]

If it was unreasonable why would you sign the contract?

Why include a clause like that in a rental contract? Simple, so you have the extra time to advertise and show a unit before it becomes vacant.

1. Because I'm simple minded, or hadn't you noticed? Because I didn't read it on the spot. Because I trusted them not to be "on the make". The question of having signed it or not is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make about the nature of a contract- is it reasonable or not to include certain clauses- but which you choose to ignore.Courts have often ruled in favour of such challenges.

2.Do you think The Dome puts adverts in the local paper every time an occupant leaves one of their rooms? As I said, my room was let before my contract ended. Case dismissed.

[cmsally]

Am I missing something here; you don't like what is in the contract then don't stay there. If you don't like the 30 day clause then find somewhere that doesn't have it. They were within their rights to keep to the clause in the contract. What is the point of having one if you want it to be ignored.

Unfortunately those who wish for it to be ignored usually only do so when it is in their favour, they are normally not so keen when it swings in the other direction.

Lesson to be learned here, read before you sign and expect to have to abide by it. It applies the world over not just Thailand.

[jdinasia]

Am I missing something here; you don't like what is in the contract then don't stay there. If you don't like the 30 day clause then find somewhere that doesn't have it. They were within their rights to keep to the clause in the contract. What is the point of having one if you want it to be ignored.

Unfortunately those who wish for it to be ignored usually only do so when it is in their favour, they are normally not so keen when it swings in the other direction.

Lesson to be learned here, read before you sign and expect to have to abide by it. It applies the world over not just Thailand.

We CAN see eye to eye on something! Hooooray!

[greytown]

I checked out the website for this hotel. Looks like a nice place to stay (as long as they do refund deposits). Looks clean and modern. Is the area where it's located pleasant? Not sure from what I can see on Mapjack from the main road.

Edited February 1, 2010 by greytown

[MrBrad]

I checked out the website for this hotel. Looks like a nice place to stay (as long as they do refund deposits). Looks clean and modern. Is the area where it's located pleasant? Not sure from what I can see on Mapjack from the main road.

On Wikimapia it's here.

And on Mapjack it's just up this lane off Huay Kaew.

[Asmerom]

I checked out the website for this hotel. Looks like a nice place to stay (as long as they do refund deposits). Looks clean and modern. Is the area where it's located pleasant? Not sure from what I can see on Mapjack from the main road.

Its a ten minute walk to the NW corner of the moat ; so quite well placed. Its busy and popular. I'd recommend it to short term tourists. Fridge and sink but no cooking facilities. Wireless Internet available in rooms for 500 baht per month. Washing machines available. So long as you stay less than two months that iniquitous clause in the contract won't affect you. If you intend staying longer I suggest you erase that trick clause before you sign, or try not to forget to give 30 days notice.No problem with deposits for short termers. Rooms at the back are quiet, apart from noises from your neighbours.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Asmerom

[el jefe]

We all missed one thing when we bashed the OP for signing a contract without reading (or understanding) it. There's no way to lose more than one month's rent.

In the OP's case, rent is 8,000 per month and the security was 24,000. Let's say the lease expires at the end of February and the renter doesn't notify the landlord until the last day --28 Feb -- that they are moving out at the end of the month. The landlord says "OK, but you forfeit 24,000 security". Tenant should say "OK, then I stay for one mor month and move out on 31 March. I am giving you notification now, more than 30 days in advance." Pay the 8,000 for March and move out anyway. you get your 24,000 back at the end of March. Net, you get back 16,000 and have only lost one month's rent.

That seems pretty standard to me. Most leases call for you to forfeit one month's rent if you leave with less than 30 days notice. Can anyone, especially the OP, explain how they can possible lose more than one month's rent based on the contract as described in the original post?

[Asmerom]

We all missed one thing when we bashed the OP for signing a contract without reading (or understanding) it. There's no way to lose more than one month's rent.

In the OP's case, rent is 8,000 per month and the security was 24,000. Let's say the lease expires at the end of February and the renter doesn't notify the landlord until the last day --28 Feb -- that they are moving out at the end of the month. The landlord says "OK, but you forfeit 24,000 security". Tenant should say "OK, then I stay for one mor month and move out on 31 March. I am giving you notification now, more than 30 days in advance." Pay the 8,000 for March and move out anyway. you get your 24,000 back at the end of March. Net, you get back 16,000 and have only lost one month's rent.

That seems pretty standard to me. Most leases call for you to forfeit one month's rent if you leave with less than 30 days notice. Can anyone, especially the OP, explain how they can possible lose more than one month's rent based on the contract as described in the original post?

12,000 baht per month actually. That's exactly what I had decided to do if the dear lady owner had stuck to her offensive guns even though I had already put down a deposit for the house I now rent in Doi Saket. So, I would have had a house in the country and a pad in town. An unnecessary expense I didn't want but seemed to be the best way out. Others in the same situation may have had a plane to catch. Your solution, neglecting, as it does, the likely commitments involved in making a move, is not as perfect as you seem to feel. Nevertheless, Congratulations on coming up with this ruse even though you're only on the sidelines, whereas I was agonising for a couple of days before deciding to take this route.

[greytown]

I checked out the website for this hotel. Looks like a nice place to stay (as long as they do refund deposits). Looks clean and modern. Is the area where it's located pleasant? Not sure from what I can see on Mapjack from the main road.

On Wikimapia it's here.

And on Mapjack it's just up this lane off Huay Kaew.

I checked out the website for this hotel. Looks like a nice place to stay (as long as they do refund deposits). Looks clean and modern. Is the area where it's located pleasant? Not sure from what I can see on Mapjack from the main road.

Its a ten minute walk to the NW corner of the moat ; so quite well placed. Its busy and popular. I'd recommend it to short term tourists. Fridge and sink but no cooking facilities. Wireless Internet available in rooms for 500 baht per month. Washing machines available. So long as you stay less than two months that iniquitous clause in the contract won't affect you. If you intend staying longer I suggest you erase that trick clause before you sign, or try not to forget to give 30 days notice.No problem with deposits for short termers. Rooms at the back are quiet, apart from noises from your neighbours.

Thanks both for the info.