Touchy Men.

[sceadugenga]

Touchy not as in over sensitive but as in they like to touch women.

I've got a mate staying with me from Australia that cannot communicate with a woman with out putting his hand on her in some way. Holding her hand, touching her shoulder, putting his hand on her back if he wants to get her attention.

In Australia I've seen women move quite adroitly to keep out of reach but he seems to have struck a goldmine here in Thailand. To make things worse he hasn't got a word of Thai and most of the women here can't speak English so I really wonder what they think he's saying to them.

I had a real go at him the other day and he was horrified and apologised profusely. He says he doesn't even realise he's doing it. (Little elves bring food to his door as well).

He's 70 now and I've known him 30 years so he ain't gonna change. I suppose my principal concern is that the husband or boyfriend of the victim might see him in action and not be as understanding as Aussie men are.

Oh, I'm not talking about girls in bars either.

[Boo]

I think his age will probably give him some leeway & save him from a kicking so imo as long as he isn't being inappropriate then he will likely be ok & thai husbands will let it slide.

Now you have pointed it out to him though he will (if he really gives a shit not to cause offense) hopefully reignhimself in or at least be more aware of it if he catches himself doing it.

[sceadugenga]

I think his age will probably give him some leeway & save him from a kicking so imo as long as he isn't being inappropriate then he will likely be ok & thai husbands will let it slide.

Now you have pointed it out to him though he will (if he really gives a shit not to cause offense) hopefully reignhimself in or at least be more aware of it if he catches himself doing it.

Some of the most lecherous Thai men in the village are well into their 70s.

Hey, sceadugenga himself is over 60 and cast no doubts upon HIS virility!

[bkkjames]

I think his age will probably give him some leeway & save him from a kicking so imo as long as he isn't being inappropriate then he will likely be ok & thai husbands will let it slide.

Now you have pointed it out to him though he will (if he really gives a shit not to cause offense) hopefully reignhimself in or at least be more aware of it if he catches himself doing it.

Some of the most lecherous Thai men in the village are well into their 70s.

Hey, sceadugenga himself is over 60 and cast no doubts upon HIS virility!

Is this a autobiography veiled as another "my mate story"? It's ok mate.

[sceadugenga]

Come again?

[IanForbes]

A lot depends on how you were raised. Italians are notorious for being touchy-feely. I give hugs to friend's wives and there is nothing sexual in it at all. I get lots of hugs from women in many different countries, but many Thai women are "old school" and any bodily contact is not acceptible. It is easy for a farang to be confused if they have spent any time in Thai bars where ALL the ladies are touchy-feely.

[bkkjames]

Come again?

Ok, I will simplify it mate, is the man you describe in the original post you?

[F1fanatic]

Some men are just that way.

A man I worked with was the same - plus he was always making inappropriate comments to the women in the office. Somebody eventually complained about him (not me - I felt a bit sorry for him, he had no idea how badly we all thought of him).

I was however, v suprised when he told everyone (rather than keeping quiet and changing his behaviour) that a woman had complained about him and he'd been reprimanded. He was suprised and obviously had no idea why!!

A few years later I found myself working with a similar man. Being older (and a LOT less tolerant), I told him I found his comments annoying - not complimentary. It didn't stop him! He was (funnily enough) nice enough, but had no idea how to relate to women.

Sad men like that can (generally) get away with it in the West as v few people take them seriously (and women adroitly, keep out of their way). As the OP points out, he could well find himself in serious trouble here if he tries it on the wrong woman.

Let's just hope that he's taken the OP's comments to heart and realises his behaviour could be detrimental to his health!

[sceadugenga]

Come again?

Ok, I will simplify it mate, is the man you describe in the original post you?

Ah ok, I thought you were in attack mode, hang on while I pack the flame-thrower away.

No, I never touched a woman unless invited or to reciprocate.

[sceadugenga]

Some men are just that way.

A man I worked with was the same - plus he was always making inappropriate comments to the women in the office. Somebody eventually complained about him (not me - I felt a bit sorry for him, he had no idea how badly we all thought of him).

I was however, v suprised when he told everyone (rather than keeping quiet and changing his behaviour) that a woman had complained about him and he'd been reprimanded. He was suprised and obviously had no idea why!!

A few years later I found myself working with a similar man. Being older (and a LOT less tolerant), I told him I found his comments annoying - not complimentary. It didn't stop him! He was (funnily enough) nice enough, but had no idea how to relate to women.

Sad men like that can (generally) get away with it in the West as v few people take them seriously (and women adroitly, keep out of their way). As the OP points out, he could well find himself in serious trouble here if he tries it on the wrong woman.

Let's just hope that he's taken the OP's comments to heart and realises his behaviour could be detrimental to his health!

Thanks F1F, one of the reasons behind my post, and for putting it in this section, was to see how women thought about this. I had an ex wife who honestly never seemed to object to it, even to see it as a compliment.

Ian, he's not a bar person, my first thought was that maybe he looked upon all Thai women as available but he's an equal opportunity groper.

[sbk]

I'll be honest, (ooh maybe better not, haha) it doesn't bother me all that much, as long as its only one or two occasional touches on the arm. Persistent touching from a man generally indicates to most women a sexual interest so is really quite inappropriate in casual social situations. Add in a culture where decent men don't touch women they don't know and he may find himself the recipient of some very horrified looks. Doubt at his age he'll get a kicking from a boyfriend but still, better if he learns that he's offending.

[manjara]

Sounds like my father! He's 80 and is always 'chatting up' women - touches on the shoulders, arms etc. It's horribly embarassing to watch but in the west the girls and ladies seemed to like it. In Thailand, he got into some difficult situations with women taking it for more than was intended (he only likes to flirt, not actually do anything).

I've spoken to him about it on a few occasions but he is not going to change, and generally it is not a bad thing unless the women feel uncomfortable with it, in which case he would stop doing it!

Of course, having been traumatised by his behaviour from an early age, I'm not really tactile at all with my wife, who complains that I don't touch her enough or comment on her appearance!

[F1fanatic]

Sounds like my father! He's 80 and is always 'chatting up' women - touches on the shoulders, arms etc. It's horribly embarassing to watch but in the west the girls and ladies seemed to like it. In Thailand, he got into some difficult situations with women taking it for more than was intended (he only likes to flirt, not actually do anything).

I've spoken to him about it on a few occasions but he is not going to change, and generally it is not a bad thing unless the women feel uncomfortable with it, in which case he would stop doing it!

Of course, having been traumatised by his behaviour from an early age, I'm not really tactile at all with my wife, who complains that I don't touch her enough or comment on her appearance!

The women in the West DON'T like it - they're just tolerant and laugh about him behind his back.

All women feel uncomfortable when some man they don't know keeps touching them. How can the man know unless someone actually has the nerve to pull him up on it? As I said in a previous post though, even if a woman does, it changes nothing - the man doesn't understand what he's done wrong.

I worked for 30 years and like every other woman, learned to differentiate between the naturally touchy/feely man (rare) and the men who touched whenever they could (and made embarrassing comments) who were just sad.

Edited February 3, 2010 by F1fanatic

[sbk]

gotta agree with F1, don't know any women, western or otherwise, who like persistent touching by a man they are not interested in.

[khunandy]

As long as he isnt pelvic grinding her against the spirit house i cant see the harm done. So what...everyone I know has different quirks...leave the old bugger alone unless he is making somebody uncomfortable (aside from yourself)

You have probably embarressed an old friend needlessly.

[PeaceBlondie]

We had a worst case example in a Sunday School class. Mountain of a man, overly touching the women, towering over them, loud, obnoxious. He'd been called on it, countless times, by mates and women. and never learned. He was a nut case, shunned by all.

When I met Boo and sbk, it was hugs all around, because they knew me already, from the forum.

[khunandy]

Mountain of a man

Shock of red hair...went by the name of Homer !

Edited February 3, 2010 by khunandy

[bina]

here, unless u are in religious groups, men touch each other and women all the time; they hug (even bosses with bosses; women to women; boss men to women...) , pat on the back, hold hands when shaking hands (and often people give the same hand, not the reverse hand, to shake so the shake turns to a hold for a minute or so).... today, the guy who sells us all the kitchen stuff came to speak with my boss, and gave her a shoulder squeeze-- but theybe know each other for quite some time, and are the same age, with kids the same age.

westerners ahve a hard time in our work force because the line between sexual harrassment and friendly gestures here is very blurry. i guess we are the same as the italian mode. and its usually not sexual. the difference in ages and family status are what makes it problematic or acceptable. personal space here is very close; i have a wider personal space and dont like touch, but here men and women are always kiss kissing or hugging, when leaving, when arriving, when saying thank you... women here touch men just as much. actually anon found it wierd in the beginning that my women friends were always massaging his neck, or hugging him on arrival or leaving....and the men also.

i dont see it as a problem really. here, if a woman is religious, and a man touches her, the woman will move away quite sharply, plus usually the style of dress (higher neck line, longer sleeves even in summer, head coverings of course) will indicate if someone can be casually touched or not.

the 'hand on the inner thigh by a taxi driver' on the other hand, means he risks getting whomped on the head by me and most other israeli women and possibly an official complaint.

again, one person's culturally acceptable behavior is an other cultures' foit pas.........

bina

israel

[IanForbes]

gotta agree with F1, don't know any women, western or otherwise, who like persistent touching by a man they are not interested in.

You said a mouthful there, sbk. I used to spend some time in a Forestry office where there were LOTS of attractive female staff. It was the office manager who hired them that was the problem. He only chose good looking women and he was always touching them. He eventually had to get transferred because of it. However, we also had a very handsome guy that all the ladies liked, and he could get away with just about anything in the same office with the same women. So, it really DOES depend on who the man is that is doing the touching.

And, there is touching and then there is TOUCHING. Women know what I mean. It's like the person who is always putting people down, and when someone objects the jerk will say... "I was only kidding" when everyone knows that the jerk actually meant what he said.

[sbk]

again, one person's culturally acceptable behavior is an other cultures' foit pas.........

bina

israel

Precisely. And unless he's in a bar, touching Thai women is not acceptable. Decent men do not touch women they do not know. It is not culturally acceptable in Thailand and if he does so with women he meets who are not "in the business" he will find that he is being offensive.

[bkkjames]

again, one person's culturally acceptable behavior is an other cultures' foit pas.........

bina

israel

Precisely. And unless he's in a bar, touching Thai women is not acceptable. Decent men do not touch women they do not know. It is not culturally acceptable in Thailand and if he does so with women he meets who are not "in the business" he will find that he is being offensive.

It's funny, when I go in a bar here it's always the women touching me. Must me my magnetic charm or bad lighting.

[sceadugenga]

It's the bulge in your pants. The hip pocket to be precise.

Hey, Peace Blondie, if we ever meet up, don't even THINK about greeting ME with a hug.

[PeaceBlondie]

Hey, Peace Blondie, if we ever meet up, don't even THINK about greeting ME with a hug.

Aww. shucks....

[Boo]

Hugs from formerly straight hunks who now happen to fancy men is ok by me, you don't know what you are missing out on sceadugenga

[sbk]

gotta admit, the PB hug was the highlight

[PeaceBlondie]

Aww, shucks.

[sceadugenga]

I'll take your word for it ladies. I only hug men at funerals provided they're closely related to the deceased....

(This falls into the acceptable straight male physical contact category along with pats on the ass while playing sports).

[Boo]

LOL. straight man rulebook huh?

[sbk]

I figured they had such a thing just never knew one to admit it.

Now to just get one to admit that they all go to a secret "guy school" where they all learn the same stuff.

[sceadugenga]

You'll never know.