Thailand Aims To Seize All Thaksin Fortune

[exon]

Thaksin was a rich man even before he came into power

He came into power with an official asset declaration of 545 million baht. While that is rich, that's a puny portion of the frozen 76 billion total.

Dubious ruling or not, I doubt they can seize all of it... I'm sure Thaksin was/is smart enough to stash a healthy nest-egg or two outside of Thailand.

He wasn't too smart if he left the 76 Billion Baht in the country long after he was deposed. His assets weren't frozen for months and months afterwards. It attests to his over-confident, self-delusioned notion that nobody would freeze the money.

He no doubt has more stashed outside the country, but one can hopefully presume it's the lion share of his assets. If it's not, then he stole more money than people could ever imagine.

Edited February 9, 2010 by exon

[Ricardo]

Dubious ruling or not, I doubt they can seize all of it... I'm sure Thaksin was/is smart enough to stash a healthy nest-egg or two outside of Thailand.

His oft-claimed ownership of gold & diamond-mines, his purchase & sale of Manchester City F.C., his overseas homes (London, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc) and private-jet-set lifestyle, these would all suggest that he did indeed manage to stash away some of his wealth outside Thailand, as indeed most expats here have also done, although perhaps not quite to the same extent.

Abhisit should listen to Hun Sen, he is already calling Abhisit a cheat , if Abhisit dishonestly takes Thaksins money the whole country will know that he and his Military bosses are cheats and all the bad karma will come back to get them.

Anyone want to take a bet on a new PM or coup or both within the next 6 months?

You will no doubt be reassured to learn, the money has been frozen by the courts & not seized by PM-Abhisit, who only came to power some months after Thaksin absconded, so it is not Abhisit's decision to make, as you seem to believe.

The February 26th deadline will come and go without anything happening. Neither will the courts make a decision. We'll see some excuse and more delays.

Knowing Thailand a little, I fear that you may well be right about this, however the country needs to get this over with, before things can move forward.

I also believe that //deleted by Admin// Pojamon may well succeed, in her bid to recover some part of the assets, those which were/are formally in her own name, indeed that would seem only fair.

But as several others have noted, this is not the court's final decision, but merely the attorney-general's request to the court, to confiscate the assets. Whatever else did anyone ever imagine, he might be requesting, if not this ? What he asks for is irrelevant. What the judges decide is what counts !

[brahmburgers]

I'm tired and going to bed. Nighty night, guys.

Tomorrow's another day to try and deal with T and his headline grabbing problems.

I think I'll go climb a cliff, ....much more satisfying. BTW, there won't be a revolution in Thailand, regardless of which way the verdict goes. If Thais aren't getting paid to protest (as Red Shirts have been), then they'll go home and plow their fields and watch TV soap operas until the cows come home.

Maybe one out ten thousand will open a book of Thai-English dictionary - unfortunately for those few who seriously try to learn English from those books, about 20% of the words therein are ridiculously archaic, and even the Thai authors of the dictionaries don't know it (they just copy verbatum from old out-dated dictionaries).

Sorry to get so far off topic. That's what happens when the mind slacks off.

[BanTamo]

"whichever way your pleasure tends, if you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind."

May the souls of all those he murdered, face down in the mud, summary execution style, take some cold comfort from what is about to ensue. Alas, it would have been sweet revenge to have him turn up inside a Thai jail, where survivors of his genocidal 'anti-drug' pogroms could have given him a 'hot' luk thung welcome, complete with his prefered 'nang yang' (sit the burning tire) ending, but this will have to do, for now...

[zaq1]

Its hard to believe this Country, it really is. Just how could they throw out the one man who could have changed Thailand in to one of The Asan Tigers! Its not about corrupt politicians, its about WHICH corrupt politician was best for Thailand, your replies please on the back of a 1000baht note

CLUE Name begins with T!

Its no co incidence that 10% of Thailand is ethnic Chinese l,Its no coincidence that those 10% are rich and a success.

You make some good points here . . . and the majority of poor, disenfranchised northerners agree with you. And they ain't for backing down.

But for me especially your words "Its hard to believe this Country, it really is" rings so true. We ALL know what you mean!

As with with most 'Khun Dang Chart' it took me a while to understand it, much longer to accept it, and now . . . / well, I just sit back and with detachment watch 'em slog it out between themselves. Because they had it coming, and coming it is, as it must.

Again, in common with so many of us here, I love so many things about this country. But there is something deeply amiss in paradise.

Hidden in the heart and about to blast open for the world to see.

[NedKelly]

I hope he owns aall those rediculous, ugly, eyesore, pain in the butt, unsightly, inconvenient, dirty, sleezy etc etc........stalls along lower Sukhumvit.......enough is enough sieze them all and burn em !

[hjvdhoef]

That means CIVIL war.But this government who is not elected by elections want that.

[elcent]

I hope he owns aall those rediculous, ugly, eyesore, pain in the butt, unsightly, inconvenient, dirty, sleezy etc etc........stalls along lower Sukhumvit.......enough is enough sieze them all and burn em !

Too late! Take over by Sondhi's relatives nearly completed.

[Likenitstill]

Well geez, he aquired a license for such and such? People all over Thailand run business without any qualification what so ever and aquire a license to do so. A good example would be 90% of all Pharmacies, any Thai person can get a license and sell loads of different drugs. Millions of people here also do not pay taxes yet they do have an income. I see people everyday either selling underground lottery tickets, illegal loansharking. The population in general just do not have a respect for the law. My hunch is that a good portion of seized funds will be allocated very intelligently into the present local governements pockets and the general public will never know about it. Making an example of the "T" will still have no effect on current or future corrupt practices, the show, the lawlessness etc. will still go on and one man will lose all assets far above what he owes and is fined because of greed.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

greed feeding greed. How are they going to distribute the wealth between the wealthy? Poor Mr Thaksin.

hehe. this is funny. but also true. and the wealthiest of the wealthy pay no taxes and answer to nobody! hehe. Amazing Thailand!

[rainman]

The February 26th deadline will come and go without anything happening. Neither will the courts make a decision. We'll see some excuse and more delays.

hmmm this is a new tactic from you and in stark contradiction to what you normally say.

'Tactic'? What do I normally say about February 26th? I think I wrote quite a few times already that I don't believe that there will be a decision on February 26th. No conspiracy here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3316435

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3315355

oops in this one you used your normal tactic AND did say there would be a delay

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3315299

Sorry folks ... I won't actually type what rainman posts as it might just be against the law and forum rules --- you'll have to follow the links.

Are you dense? Yes, I said that the verdict was decided before the case even went to court, and that's the truth. And in both other posts I said that I believe that the February 26th deadline may be extended again. So what exactly is it you're beating on?

Sorry, but you don't make any sense. Maybe you should read my posts again instead of accusing me of saying something else, when I've clearly said the same thing in all posts.

[Dap]

They don't.

This Thai soap opera is so absurd that, at least, I hope, the farangs realize it...

[how241]

I hope all hel_l does not break out. He is VERY popular and loved by many. Many Thais remember how good it was when he was in power. I can not offer a opinion on that but many of the Thais I've spoken to, speak very highly of him.

[punisher]

Thaksin was a rich man even before he came into power, and the governments claim to his entire fortune is spurious indeed. I also find it a little disturbing how you all accept what should be a fair trial as a foregone conclusion and see no problem in doing so. I think you have all been in Thailand a little too long.

Perhaps a look at how he got rich. Check out the Superioir Court Judgement in the US about the 1.5Bn he scammed from the Satellite provider and then look at how he promised funds to the poor - when he got elected - which he did - Baht 1M per village and gues what - they all got their share and bought mobile phones! Who owned the phone company?

Have a look at his Dissertation for his Masters and you will see the 'profile' of a man who is against the 'system'. Do some DD before making comments like you have here.

The man is convicted by a Thai Court under its French Romanesque system (no jury) thus less likely to be claimed the jury was paid off which in this case, works! He did a runner and innocent people do not 'run away'. Now he is funding a private vendetta to keep the 'wealth'. Does someone need to draw you a picture?

yeah innocent people do not run away if they get a fair trial,how fair can be a trial if the judge is picked by the people who sacked mr.t?

[jdinasia]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3316435

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3315355

oops in this one you used your normal tactic AND did say there would be a delay

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3315299

Sorry folks ... I won't actually type what rainman posts as it might just be against the law and forum rules --- you'll have to follow the links.

Are you dense? Yes, I said that the verdict was decided before the case even went to court, and that's the truth. And in both other posts I said that I believe that the February 26th deadline may be extended again. So what exactly is it you're beating on?

Sorry, but you don't make any sense. Maybe you should read my posts again instead of accusing me of saying something else, when I've clearly said the same thing in all posts.

Maybe you should explain how a judge can decide a case before it is brought before him? To me that sounds as if you are impugning the integrity of the courts and Thailand's senior judges, and yes that is wrong to do.

Unless you mean that it wasn't actually decided at all but that the prosecution was either so proficient in gathering the details of the case that it was "open and shut", or that there was obviously nothing to the case in and of itself and therefore will fail even before being heard. But you specifically say "before it even went to court" ... and that does not sound like either of those two scenarios that I am offering up to give you an "out".

[Dap]

After he sued so many for so much seemingly because he had been slandered? And, I might add, for amounts that begger the imagination.

Amazing the misinformation and lies so many STILL believe about this supremely polarizing figure.

Unusually Wealthy, means that he must explain his paper trial. Show a legal paper trail.

That may prove quite difficult bordering on impossible for him. Nothing described in court

so far has indicated they have any proof of this. And the prosecution has had many documents on their case.

If the court believes from evidence presented that an 'ongoing pattern of criminal behavior' exists,

and that he hasn't adequately explained his unusual wealth, then they can take it.

If it likely is beyond a reasonable doubt gained through unexplained means, and thus not legally obtained.

Civil trials usually have a lower threshold than criminal trials, See OJ Simpson for example.

He can appeal and try and explain it. If he has the documents and accountants and contracts,

then he can. If not well then it is pretty questionable and he loses the bet.

But just that explaining likely will open more avenues for claims against him.

I am surprised the listing of OTHER case, 6 or so in number are not already listed here.

Described in many threads here already. On hold in most case by Thaksins refusal to come into court.

The question is not really whether he is guilty or not but why is he the first one to be sued?

[jdinasia]

yeah innocent people do not run away if they get a fair trial,how fair can be a trial if the judge is picked by the people who sacked mr.t?

Which 'judge' would that be?

[annabel]

GOOD! How about some social programs for the Thai people? It would certainly be a shame if it was distributed amongst the corrupt. Dump some of it towards the Tsunami victims that are still suffering without medical care for lack of funds. I would love to see something done about all the crazy people that society seems to accept as normal street inhabitants. Sadly, I think the feces is going to hit the oscillating rotor, and hard. It's going get nasty, so we all have to be strong. Screw the bastard! This is good news. Other than that I have no opinion.

No. hand it to the poor people of Isaan. The tsunami "victims" are mostly from the affluent Phuket/Krabi areas. They had a good hand out already. However, they charge ridiculous prices for the foreigners there and they have always had money and never contributed anything their own people in Isaan

Don't see any purpose in discussing 'who' it should be distibuted to. The funds should simply become revenue for Thailand, same as all texes etc., and used as all other revenues are used for administration and development purposes

Pppfffff!! This has to be the most hilarious post so far ...... I mean really !! REVENUE OF THAILAND ... Oye!!! Give me a break!!!!!! And "Used as all other revenues are used for administration and development purposes"

Is this statement for real ?? Am I hallucinating here or what ??/ Am I on Earth or just died and live in another world ...? Please help me come back down to earth ...Oye!!!

[Dap]

Love your math ... how about some actual statistics/reports/realtime data to back up you assertions?

I don't think that all can be seized. There will be lots of interest claims as well.

What's the fuss of over 20 000 security forces in 38 provinces and over 6000 in Bangkok alone? IS THAT ANOTHER SETTING FOR A COUP? At the one hand so many claim that there are no more than a couple of thousand Thaksin supporters and at the other hand they need to meet with over 20 000 security forces? - Strange to strangest.

I think it's merily a provokation for the people and to train them and get them used in Junta style livelyhood. Burma with electricity comes to mind. Does anybody here seriously think that Lung(Uncle) Lek from Fujiburi would stage or join a revolt for Thaksin?

This governemnt should not forget that one protester represents up to 2000-3000 people with the same agenda. Most of the people don't have the time and financial resources to join in the protests, and which has nothing to do with Thaksin at all. This is just a hanger for the govt to implement stringent measures to surpress it's own people.

In the US, 50 phonecalls to your senator about one and the same subjects makes them act. Why? Because they have learned that when one person makes the effort to pick up the phone and contact the senator's hotline number, the caller represents 5000 people. So 50 calls equals 250000 people.

Don't forget the silent majority in Thailand. They may be fedup at a certain point.

[Dap]

Here Here !!!

This governemnt should not forget that one protester represents up to 2000-3000 people with the same agenda. Most of the people don't have the time and financial resources to join in the protests, and which has nothing to do with Thaksin at all. This is just a hanger for the govt to implement stringent measures to surpress it's own people.

Ummmm

1) I don't know what hat you are pulling numbers out of ....

and

2) 1 protester that is getting paid represents 1 guy hiding in Dubai and that is all he represents

[Dap]

No, with THAT attitude the joke will be on you

Lets hope the rational factions have the best interest of ALL in mind.

Well, it is a joke, right?

[Dap]

Then "rainman" why bother posting??

Why doesn't the Abhsit government call for elections? And let the people decide who they want. The people of Thailand haven't voted for the Democrats. They voted for TRT/PPP/Puea Thai and their allies, who then switched sides and jumped into bed with the Democrats.

If the Democrats are so confident that they have the people behind them, why not call for fresh elections?

But then again, elections won't help anything, because if anyone other than the Democrats win, they'll simply make another coup, declare the election illegal, the voters got bribed, etc. Not very 'democratic' of the 'Democrats', but anyways...

[Sabre]

Has anyone ever worked out just how much of his fortune was gained from corruption and whether he did actually make a couple of million reasonably fairly ?

Can't see this ending well whichever way it goes.

Thaksin has 76 billion baht ($2.2 billion) frozen in Thailand. In late 2008, Arabian Business reported after an exclusive interview that the UK froze $4.2 billion (140 billion Thai Baht) of his assets in the UK (this figure has not been confirmed by the UK authorities). He is also rumoured to have made extensive investments in the Dubai property market.

When he took office in 2001 he and his family declared assets worth 15.1 billion baht.

So somehow he and his family made at least 60 billion baht (about USD 2 billion), and maybe as much as 200 billion baht (about USD7 billion) while he was in office, and perhaps more, because of course only Thaksin knows how much he has hidden in around various jurisdictions.

"Behind every great fortune there is a great crime" Balzac.

[Arkady]

Thaksin was a rich man even before he came into power, and the governments claim to his entire fortune is spurious indeed. I also find it a little disturbing how you all accept what should be a fair trial as a foregone conclusion and see no problem in doing so. I think you have all been in Thailand a little too long.

From bits and pieces that have appeared in the Press the prosecution's argument seems to rest on these two premises: 1) they calculate that Thaksin has caused damages to the state from loss of revenues resulting from manipulation of concessions and tax regulations of around 70 billion baht; 2) allowing Thaksin to retain the assets he had before he became PM would be tantamount to zero punishment and would encourage future corruption by politicians, if they believe the worst case scenario is only having to return assets stolen from the state with no element of a fine.

I rather suspect that Thaksin will fade into irrelevance if the court rules in favour of the prosecution's argument and confiscates all the frozen assets. Many of his subordinates have apparently been promised large bonuses from the frozen assets, if they can help him get them back. They will lose this motivation if the assets are seized by the state and will only be prepared to work for cash upfront. Thaksin, who is reputed to be extremely tight fisted, would likely pull in his horns, rather than commit to unlimited expenses from his offshore stash to keep the wheels oiled.

If the assets are confiscated, I think it will be extremely difficult to get them back, even if Thaksin can get the constitution abrogated and have the country revert to the 1997 constitution. Retroactively dissolving the power of the AEC to investigate him and bring charges might be possible for the cases still pending but reversing a final judgement of the Supreme Court and having state assets restored to a private indivual would I believe be virtually impossible. In different circumstances the assets of the two military dictators, Thanom and Prapas, who were forced out of power and into exile by the student uprising of 1973, were also seized by the state. Even though they were allowed to return from exile and rehabilitated into Thai society, they never got their assets back despite over two decades of legal wranging that their families continued after their deaths.

The Dems and their allies no doubt hope that they just need to tough it out for a few more weeks and the threat from Thaksin will recede, if the Supreme Court rules against him. Despite a lot of noise from Chavalit, Panlop, Khattiya et al, the the army seems to be squarely behind Abhisit in this contest and a coup in favour of Thaksin seems extremely unlikely. There is no unity amongst the pro-Thaksin elements. The red shirt leaders squabble amongst themselves and refuse to take orders from Chavalit. The parliamentary Thaksinites cannot find a leader and the two most prominent of them, Chalerm and Sudarat, are at each others throats continuously. Meanwhile, Thaksin's Cambodian adventures which, if used judiciously, could have provided him a useful staging post next to Thai soil, if he and Hun Sen had been more discrete, seem to have backfired on him and could enable the yellow shirts to whip up a great deal of nationalistic fervour against him, if things get nasty.

[SpoliaOpima]

Why would the redshirts go to war over a seizure of Thaksin's assets? I thought their goal was democracy. Their work carries on regardless of whether Thaksin gets his money back, I would think.

Unless, as rumours would have it, the self-avowed red commandante has promised to split a billion with all who cause mayhem on the 26th should he lose/win (depending on the rumour) the case.

Edited February 9, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[johncitizen]

"Behind every great fortune there is a great crime" Balzac.

A great quote. And yet Thaksin isn't the richest man in Thailand by any measure...

[sillyfools]

Just a few thoughts.

He is said to have lost most of his money abroad because of bad decisions he has made in the stock Market due to the economical crisis.

I wonder what the financial situation of Thailand would have been if he would have been PM.

I would just think twice before handing him over all of Thailand's taxpayer's money.

[Steve2UK]

<snip>

In late 2008, Arabian Business reported after an exclusive interview that the UK froze $4.2 billion (140 billion Thai Baht) of his assets in the UK (this figure has not been confirmed by the UK authorities).

<snip>

And the writer of the article (also Editorial Director of arabianbusiness.com) has himself confirmed that "the UK didn't freeze 4bn of his assets".

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pund...ins-assets.html

[elnacho]

Edited February 9, 2010 by elnacho

[OZEMADE]

<snip>

In late 2008, Arabian Business reported after an exclusive interview that the UK froze $4.2 billion (140 billion Thai Baht) of his assets in the UK (this figure has not been confirmed by the UK authorities).

<snip>

And the writer of the article (also Editorial Director of arabianbusiness.com) has himself confirmed that "the UK didn't freeze 4bn of his assets".

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pund...ins-assets.html

I heard on the grape vine that Thaksin's wife owned all the Jet Jiffy Service stations in Thailand. Which she sold to PTT and they are now called PTT Jiffy? Is this true or not and if true how many billions was that worth. I wonder when they will get back together. Gold Mines, Servos, sale Manchester City etc etc.