I Wonder About This Guy`s Immigration Status......

[peter991]

Perhaps slightly off topic, but I will never forget on my first trip to LOS, seeing Thai beggars on pedestrian overpasses in Bangkok.

My first thought was to put a few coins in their cups, but a Thai friend I was with discouraged me, telling me that these were 'professional beggars' who were picked up and dropped off each day with orders to beg money.

I gave a pair of them (a mother and daughter) some fruit and then bought them a meal at McDonalds.

At least the food was a positive contribution as far as I was concerned. Probably I am on the hit-list of their Thai mafia boss for my actions.

[kat]

All of the people out there that think that giving money to people on the street is helping them out....just stop for one moment and ask yourself...."Actually how is this going to help the person?"  I keep asking this question on this thread and I never get an answer.  I think I get no answer because really it does not help them.  It is really difficult to think up even a theoretic situation where it would actually help someone....and the more beat up and worn out they look the more likely that giving them some money will help.  You may avoid thinking about this because if you think about what it really takes to help them you will discover that you don't have the time.  That's one of the reasons why people who need help in the world today too often don't get it.....people don't want to take the time to help out those who need it....instead they throw a couple of bills at them and immediately leave the vicinity.  It is probably more important for you to be able to avoid them than for you to help them so you flip the cash and vacate....this way you don't have to really do anything to help them and you can buy into the myth that you actually care about this person and have helped them out.  What is the definition of the word "hypocrisy?" I googled it and here it is:

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. "

I'm not trying to pick on you.  I just think that if any of you will take a real look at this issue and decide that money is not the answer...then I suggest that you actually go eat lunch with some of these people...or go work at a charitable organization that feeds the hungry.  These are human beings who need human contact.  They need people to acknowledge their humanity...not a cash machine to dispense bills whenever they hold thier hand out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Chownah, you are right. But sometimes thirst is more urgent than rational thought, and 5 baht is still only 5 baht.

[chownah]

All of the people out there that think that giving money to people on the street is helping them out....just stop for one moment and ask yourself...."Actually how is this going to help the person?"  I keep asking this question on this thread and I never get an answer.  I think I get no answer because really it does not help them.  It is really difficult to think up even a theoretic situation where it would actually help someone....and the more beat up and worn out they look the more likely that giving them some money will help.  You may avoid thinking about this because if you think about what it really takes to help them you will discover that you don't have the time.  That's one of the reasons why people who need help in the world today too often don't get it.....people don't want to take the time to help out those who need it....instead they throw a couple of bills at them and immediately leave the vicinity.  It is probably more important for you to be able to avoid them than for you to help them so you flip the cash and vacate....this way you don't have to really do anything to help them and you can buy into the myth that you actually care about this person and have helped them out.  What is the definition of the word "hypocrisy?" I googled it and here it is:

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. "

I'm not trying to pick on you.  I just think that if any of you will take a real look at this issue and decide that money is not the answer...then I suggest that you actually go eat lunch with some of these people...or go work at a charitable organization that feeds the hungry.  These are human beings who need human contact.  They need people to acknowledge their humanity...not a cash machine to dispense bills whenever they hold thier hand out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Chownah, you are right. But sometimes thirst is more urgent than rational thought, and 5 baht is still only 5 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone on the street came up and was begging and said they wanted money for a drink I would go with them to someplace close by and buy them something to drink before I would give them money...of course to be honest I don't stop at every beggar and evaluate what they need and if I have the wherewithall to help them. I mostly ignore them. I have been asked for money because someone was thirsty on dozens and dozens of occasions and they were all alcoholics asking directly for money to buy alcohol. I don't recall ever giving them anything. I don't think I have ever been asked to help someone avoid dehydration...if this is what you are talking about. One time a panhandler appeared in my neighborhood (I lived in the part of town where the missions were that gave indigent people places to stay at night and breakfast in the morning) told me that he was just 3 cents short of enough money to buy a stamp to send a letter to his mother...and then smiled at me like man are you not going to believe this....I gave him 25 cents and he left immediately almost assuredly to buy a pint of fortified wine. I knowingly gave him money to buy alcohol.....I really should have given him 5 dollars because it was so funny, like a scene you would see in a great movie!!!!! Also there were alot of knife fights in my neighborhood and one day as I was walking over for my wakeup beer and pool game I saw a human eyeball stareing up at me from the sidewalk. Ah memories, memories!! Sorry....I'm getting all misty eyed thinking of my days on skid row.

[midas]

In that case- those of you who would have given money

this morning - dont any of you complain when the

visa situation is changed radically very soon that its suddenly

become tougher for foreigners to stay here !

[meom]

In that case- those of you who would have given money

this morning - dont any of you complain when the

visa situation is changed radically very soon that its suddenly

become tougher for foreigners to stay here !

What has giving money to a beggar to do with complaining about the visa situation?

[ozzydom]

In that case- those of you who would have given money

this morning - dont any of you complain when the

visa situation is changed radically very soon that its suddenly

become tougher for foreigners to stay here !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So now the truth finally rears its head, you were not being a mean S*B you were really concerned that this poor unfortunate guy could actually be the catalyst for a radical change in Immigration regulations. Give over Midas, in your previous postings you have had a shot at Thai Air, Buddhism, car owners, Bangkok streets etc,etc. please stop whining and post something constructive.

ozzydom

[chownah]

In that case- those of you who would have given money

this morning - dont any of you complain when the

visa situation is changed radically very soon that its suddenly

become tougher for foreigners to stay here !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So now the truth finally rears its head, you were not being a mean S*B you were really concerned that this poor unfortunate guy could actually be the catalyst for a radical change in Immigration regulations. Give over Midas, in your previous postings you have had a shot at Thai Air, Buddhism, car owners, Bangkok streets etc,etc. please stop whining and post something constructive.

ozzydom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozzydom,

Thanks for posting something constructive. All of us here at Thai Visa appreciate all the good work that you do.

From all of us.......THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

[remmy]

not all of us have time to sit down with beggars.....

[SEAtramp]

Sad post. Sad poster.

[Tornado]

All of the people out there that think that giving money to people on the street is helping them out....just stop for one moment and ask yourself...."Actually how is this going to help the person?"  I keep asking this question on this thread and I never get an answer.  I think I get no answer because really it does not help them.  It is really difficult to think up even a theoretic situation where it would actually help someone....and the more beat up and worn out they look the more UNlikely that giving them some money will help.  You may avoid thinking about this because if you think about what it really takes to help them you will discover that you don't have the time.  That's one of the reasons why people who need help in the world today too often don't get it.....people don't want to take the time to help out those who need it....instead they throw a couple of bills at them and immediately leave the vicinity.  It is probably more important for you to be able to avoid them than for you to help them so you flip the cash and vacate....this way you don't have to really do anything to help them and you can buy into the myth that you actually care about this person and have helped them out.  What is the definition of the word "hypocrisy?" I googled it and here it is:

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. "

I'm not trying to pick on you.  I just think that if any of you will take a real look at this issue and decide that money is not the answer...then I suggest that you actually go eat lunch with some of these people...or go work at a charitable organization that feeds the hungry.  These are human beings who need human contact.  They need people to acknowledge their humanity...not a cash machine to dispense bills whenever they hold thier hand out.

(note: I edited this post to change "likely" to "UNlikely" above.  Sorry if it caused any misunderstanding.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

related to Yohan?

[DaveYo]

Well I just kinda wondered why this person not go to his Embassy for help and have them make arrangements for his return home.

I have heard some very bad stories here in Thailand where the foreigner gets his savings robbed, and loses everything to some Thai wife. Also sometimes your funds run out blinky blink, and say this person has no one to contact, what do you do, and need some help????

I would have given him my 5 Baht!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps even a 100 since money can be very hard to come by being a foreigner who cannot work here etc much less have a place to stay if no money is available.

God help us foreigners here, we really are all on our own.

Daveyo

[DaveYo]

Ok I read your post Tornado. Well put so to speak, but again look at the other side of the coin. Yes you can help them, first giving them some funds, to eat or to sleep if you wish, but also advise them to go to their embassy and return home. You can even pay for his cab fare and direct the cab driver straight to his embassy provided it is during the hours they are opened.

After that what else can you do besides maybe contacting the nearest police officer and have him give this person some assistance. Knowing Thailand, they will lock him up and perhaps nail him for no Visa or passport etc.

So you give him the time needed, while perhaps your business associates are waiting for you concerning maybe a 100,000 baht purchase etc. Choose what you want to do.

Therefore if one finds a diamond in the rough, remember that diamond and take care of this diamond and pay them back when your back on your feet. You never know if you can get their services ever again. But do testify on their behalf of the goodness they rendered to you when you were in need. Give them all the credit.

Daveyo

[astral]

I thought begging was an occuaption reserved for Thai's??

[midas]

Astral my point exactly !

[chownah]

not all of us have time to sit down with beggars.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all make time in our lives to do the things we want to do and to do the things that are important to us. If doing charitable works is a low priority in your life you will not have time for it. If a very attractive person of the gender you like to rub against came up and asked for change to buy a meal with big soft eyes and a beautiful smile you might be more inclined to find the time.

[Popeyethesailorman]

Astral my point exactly !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe we should just string the guy up and beat him like a pinata. That'll teach the barstard to be takin away good Thai jobs

[Richard Hall]

I don't think any embassy will or can lend/advance money, unless payment is guaranteed by somebody at home.

In extreme cases they will fly you home, however, you have to repay the money before you are allowed to travel again.

Not talking about charity, but let's face it, the money spent by an embassy comes off the taxes paid at home. It would not really be fair to those whp stayed home.

An embassy, however, will try to help in case of lost docments etc. etc. How friendly and willingly they do it is everybody's guess.

Axel,

don't underestimate our (German) embassy here in Bangkok.

If someone shows up totally broke they hand that person some money in the area of 1.000 Baht and would even arrange for an air tickett. When back home all needs certainly to be paid back.

Unfortunately, it is a matter of fact that Thailand is a magnet for the weirdos of the world and well, the embassies have to cope with that. There are heaps of individuals considering it a complete accomplishment when dragging themselves from one beer to the next and prolong that period as long as possible. There are surely indeed cases of real bad luck and actual victims of destiny but most obviously they do not form the majority.

To get back to the initial post I wonder if an individual struck by a string of bad luck would actually feature the described and abusive behaviour and spill an arsenal of four letter words particularly that starting with a "f".

Actually, I am quite confident that most embassies would help their citizens out of the mud but the story presented must be clear and believable. A giraffe ate my purse or help, my last glass of beer dates already back more than 2 hours are somewhat not real qualifiers despite the famours "Amazing Thailand" slogan.

By the way, while writing this a young elephant, we all know they roam Bangkok roads in heaps, just walked in stuck it's trunk in my pocket and sucked out a million Baht, my golden premium credit card and my passport. Please help a desperate fellow citizen that can bearly talk coz' that darn heat made my throad so dry and the battery in my Rolex is running low already too. Needless to say I am gonna pay you back next week with 10% interest of course.

Just a regular day like any other in LOS

Cheers,

Richard

[Storekeeper]

I wouldn't have even listened to the guy. I put my wife in charge of the charity department long ago. She gives enough away to earn merit for both of us

[Dragonman]

Storekeeper; and as they say, paricularly in Thailand, "charity begins at home", normally hers. I normally leave my wife in charge of charity because I don't normally have 5 baht on me.

[ozzydom]

Astral my point exactly !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Midas ,what is your "point exactly" ?? it has gone from not tolerating beggars to concern that this poor unfortunates actions may lead to visa regulation changes and now to only tolerating thai beggars. or is it that he scared the c**p out of you in front of your "nice condo block"and witnesses and embarassed you. If he badmouthed you as described maybe giving him a smack in the mouth would have made you feel better, he was probably to weak from hunger to fight back.

If a human of no matter what nationality falls by the wayside , offer them your hand is the Oz way."Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord " good words I reckon and I am an athiest.

It is plain to see by the postings, those who have not had the misfortune to "have the bum out of your pants"but I hope that if you are unfortunate enough to be in that position then you will appreciate the word CHARITY. (Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity ) Websters !!!

ozzydom

[peter991]

From my short time visiting Thailand I was under the impression there are a lot of poor people but there is no need for begging because temple monks will supply food - if asked politely.

[midas]

ozzydom hewas also abussive to me because I didnt agree to

buy the food he was trying to sell - so he wasnt a full time

beggar -he was also promoting some " take away " Thai

food outlet which was pictured on some cards. So his

approach is that if don`t agree to buy the food from him- he then turns to

begging - not an absolutely 100% case of hardship I suggest ?!!!!!!

My point is I regularly drop coins into

cups of Thai people sitting on the floor near

Silom, World Trade Centre - simply because they have no way out. This

guy does have an alternative - he can go to

his Embassy and ask for a ticket home. There are not many Embassies

who would absolutely refuse provided he agreed to pay them back.

Also if he keeps this up - where will it all end ?

[gerry1011]

Usualy I never give money to any beggars. Not even 5 baht.

On rare occasions I might make exeptions for elderly beggars, but most of the time I don't.

I, like chownah, think that giving 5, 20 or even 100 bath just gives us a good feeling. The feeling of being a good, charitable person.

We don't mind giving such small amounts because it does not represent anything for us. But still gives us a good feeling. In reality, the person we give the money to is probably much less important than the good feeling we've gained by giving him 5 baht. We forget both the money and the person in the next minute anyway.

But what about giving 1000baht, ... or 10.000, ...

Out of a common farang salary (here or abroad), it represents a more substantial amount, and in this case would really mean sharing. But, by sharing this way, and giving substantial amounts to the ones in need, the good feeling would transform itself into a bad one. It would prevent us access to some of our usual little luxuries (extra beers for some, weekend here and there, UBC cable tv, etc...), and we would maybe ask ourselves: "and what if he goes to buy whiskey with my money now?" (which he could not do with 5 baht, keeping us reassured).

And, of course, as it was already said, the "person in need" might not be as much in need as we would like to believe at the moment we give him his 5 baht.

I do agree that it is far more charitable to spend time with a restricted number of persons in need, and trying to find solutions to improve their life.

Now, if I personaly never give anything to beggars in the street, I do involve myself a lot in charities. I create events that bring funds to keep children at school, I help families touched by the AIDS catastrophe, and I help artists. It represents a substantial amount of money that is invested in creating awareness and trying to bring long term solutions.

By trying to give perspective of better future to a restricted number of people, concentrating on the younger generations and artists, I also gain this good feeling.

I just do it my own way, using my farang wealth and my time, trying to find solutions, make the people come together, and making it easier for the ones in need to help themselves, rather than quickly handing over money.

I would probably not give anything to this american in the street, and would not feel guilty about it. But I would probably ask myself how he could have gone down so low, and hope someone helps him to find solutions, ... not only give him 5 baht.

There are a lot of poor people in this country, most of them not begging in the streets.

In some countries begging has become a lifestyle, like in Spain, for the people who just don't want to work. But it has a good side. They provide good feelings to the ones who give them a few cents, and, at the same time, give an oportunity for those who want to work to do the job they would never accept

[ray23]

I wouldn't have even listened to the guy. I put my wife in charge of the charity department long ago. She gives enough away to earn merit for both of us 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like that approach I'm sure she understands better then me, she is also more frugal then I am.

I don't turn a blind eye to real needs is if I can help, we bowl a lot there is one young man thee that helps each time we go and he is tipped each time. Recently we noticed that he had not been to work for two weeks and asked about him, he had the measels, as an adult that can be very serious. This guy supports a wife and a child. When he came back to work he got a 1000 baht tip. Why? because I knew that bad luck put him in the postion and I knew he worked hard to take care of his family.

To be honest if I knew he was going to go partying and drink up the money I would not have given it to him.

I respect this young man, and I knew that the money would go to his family for food and the things they needed. I also knew this was not a habit with him, he worked hard everyday. We all can use help from time to time in life. Knowing this young guys personality at sometime in his life he will do the same for someone if he can.

When I help someone I hope that they do the same for someone else in life, if they do then I'm repaid ten times over.

You know thats just me, I have seen cops take up a collection's for people who had temporary problems and no where else to go.

The way we approach charity is a very personal thing, based on our desires and the needs that face us. I will not judge anyone elses actions, only my own.

[ozzydom]

Usualy I never give money to any beggars. Not even 5 baht.

On rare occasions I might make exeptions for elderly beggars, but most of the time I don't.

I, like chownah, think that giving 5, 20 or even 100 bath just gives us a good feeling. The feeling of being a good, charitable person.

We don't mind giving such small amounts because it does not represent anything for us. But still gives us a good feeling. In reality, the person we give the money to is probably much less important than the good feeling we've gained by giving him 5 baht. We forget both the money and the person in the next minute anyway.

But what about giving 1000baht, ... or 10.000, ...

Out of a common farang salary (here or abroad), it represents a more substantial amount, and in this case would really mean sharing. But, by sharing this way, and giving substantial amounts to the ones in need, the good feeling would transform itself into a bad one. It would prevent us access to some of our usual little luxuries (extra beers for some, weekend here and there, UBC cable tv, etc...), and we would maybe ask ourselves: "and what if he goes to buy whiskey with my money now?" (which he could not do with 5 baht, keeping us reassured).

And, of course, as it was already said, the "person in need" might not be as much in need as we would like to believe at the moment we give him his 5 baht.

I do agree that it is far more charitable to spend time with a restricted number of persons in need, and trying to find solutions to improve their life.

Now, if I personaly never give anything to beggars in the street, I do involve myself a lot in charities. I create events that bring funds to keep children at school, I help families touched by the AIDS catastrophe, and I help artists. It represents a substantial amount of money that is invested in creating awareness and trying to bring long term solutions.

By trying to give perspective of better future to a restricted number of people, concentrating on the younger generations and artists, I also gain this good feeling.

I just do it my own way, using my farang wealth and my time, trying to find solutions, make the people come together, and making it easier for the ones in need to help themselves, rather than quickly handing over money.

I would probably not give anything to this american in the street, and would not feel guilty about it. But I would probably ask myself how he could have gone down so low, and hope someone helps him to find solutions, ... not only give him 5 baht.

There are a lot of poor people in this country, most of them not begging in the streets.

In some countries begging has become a lifestyle, like in Spain, for the people who just don't want to work. But it has a good side. They provide good feelings to the ones who give them a few cents, and, at the same time, give an oportunity for those who want to work to do the job they would never accept 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gerry1011 ,It appears from your post that people like me are supposed to get a warm fuzzy feeling when we give a few cents to the leper,the limbless,the little hilltribe girl with disability etc, Ican assure you ,not so,its just a case of the have and the have not.

For ten years I sponsored a family of five children in Goroka PNG , all their clothes,school requirementsetc plus provided a portable sawmill to their village. In LoS I am putting two children from my wifes village through high school, plus my step-daughter, do I get a warm feeling ? nah ,do I judge why the kids parents cant afford their education ,? nah You just know inside that you are doing right,and I do it on an age pension.

[gerry1011]

Usualy I never give money to any beggars. Not even 5 baht.

On rare occasions I might make exeptions for elderly beggars, but most of the time I don't.

I, like chownah, think that giving 5, 20 or even 100 bath just gives us a good feeling. The feeling of being a good, charitable person.

We don't mind giving such small amounts because it does not represent anything for us. But still gives us a good feeling. In reality, the person we give the money to is probably much less important than the good feeling we've gained by giving him 5 baht. We forget both the money and the person in the next minute anyway.

But what about giving 1000baht, ... or 10.000, ...

Out of a common farang salary (here or abroad), it represents a more substantial amount, and in this case would really mean sharing. But, by sharing this way, and giving substantial amounts to the ones in need, the good feeling would transform itself into a bad one. It would prevent us access to some of our usual little luxuries (extra beers for some, weekend here and there, UBC cable tv, etc...), and we would maybe ask ourselves: "and what if he goes to buy whiskey with my money now?" (which he could not do with 5 baht, keeping us reassured).

And, of course, as it was already said, the "person in need" might not be as much in need as we would like to believe at the moment we give him his 5 baht.

I do agree that it is far more charitable to spend time with a restricted number of persons in need, and trying to find solutions to improve their life.

Now, if I personaly never give anything to beggars in the street, I do involve myself a lot in charities. I create events that bring funds to keep children at school, I help families touched by the AIDS catastrophe, and I help artists. It represents a substantial amount of money that is invested in creating awareness and trying to bring long term solutions.

By trying to give perspective of better future to a restricted number of people, concentrating on the younger generations and artists, I also gain this good feeling.

I just do it my own way, using my farang wealth and my time, trying to find solutions, make the people come together, and making it easier for the ones in need to help themselves, rather than quickly handing over money.

I would probably not give anything to this american in the street, and would not feel guilty about it. But I would probably ask myself how he could have gone down so low, and hope someone helps him to find solutions, ... not only give him 5 baht.

There are a lot of poor people in this country, most of them not begging in the streets.

In some countries begging has become a lifestyle, like in Spain, for the people who just don't want to work. But it has a good side. They provide good feelings to the ones who give them a few cents, and, at the same time, give an oportunity for those who want to work to do the job they would never accept 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gerry1011 ,It appears from your post that people like me are supposed to get a warm fuzzy feeling when we give a few cents to the leper,the limbless,the little hilltribe girl with disability etc, Ican assure you ,not so,its just a case of the have and the have not.

For ten years I sponsored a family of five children in Goroka PNG , all their clothes,school requirementsetc plus provided a portable sawmill to their village. In LoS I am putting two children from my wifes village through high school, plus my step-daughter, do I get a warm feeling ? nah ,do I judge why the kids parents cant afford their education ,? nah You just know inside that you are doing right,and I do it on an age pension.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... I think you got the meaning of my message wrong.

I can only congratulate you for everything you do for these people. Helping children to go to school is, up to me, really helping them by giving better perspectives for the future. It is far better to help them the way you do than to give 5 baht to someone in the street.

You have the full right to get a warm feeling (to use your wording), even if you call that feeling "to know that you do the right thing".

If you re-read my message, you will also see that I never say anything about judging anyone.

And if you do all what you do on an age pension, it means that you really share.

So, I think that we mostly agree...

If on top of this you still give some money in the street, it means you have an open heart. The only difference with me is that I focus on the first, longer term, kind of help.

I wish you all the happiness in the future.

[Dragonman]

Totally agree ozzydom why all the extreme anlysis and ideas there is a mafia controlled outfit extorting 5 bahts from farangs. If he was really a con man there are easier ways to get 5000 baht in thailand than begging. That's a lot of approaches to get his air fare back to the States. About 5000

If I worried about all the people who have had money out of me since I lived here I would go crazy. Most probably spent it on whisky, but what the heck, they could have wasted it

[kreon]

about 8 years ago, i helped an aussie, down and out and on his last baht, to a trip to australia, i was going anyway and paid for his fare back home

he did pay it back and now we're best of friends and today he's got a succesful business in oz

moral of story, if its real help, if its bullsh1t walk

[markuk]

There are 18,744 registered users here - can you all please give me 5 Baht i am feeling sorry for myself.

Give me a break!

[Tornado]