Sinsod Is Making Me Crazy

[473geo]

Because when a woman brings money into the equation all her "love" is in question and doubtful.

From a western perspective.......

So it is ok in relationships to spend 50k Baht on an engagement ring..........but if your future wife would rather her parents benefitted....she doesn't love you??

[britmaveric]

^neither is right.

[cdnvic]

Yeah, I'm just guessing that the three month salary guideline for ring prices (can remember it being two at one point) wasn't invented by a prospective groom.

[britmaveric]

20% of your income for the year.

[473geo]

^neither is right.

I just had this vision of an Asian guy standing outside a jewellers in Bond Street explaining to his western girlfriend that it is not his culture to buy an engagement ring.......so he is not!!!!!.........principles you know!!!!!......

[britmaveric]

^far better to invest in a house, especially just starting out. Other stuff can come later - well least makes more sense that way.

[Loz]

There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference between sinsod and an engagement ring.

The ring comes when the b/f decides he wants to commit to the gf. Hey gives her a symbol. A token of his affection. He shows her how serious he is about her. ABOVE ALL. IT TAKES NO PROMPTING!!!

Even if an old fashioned guy was to approach her parents first before asking her, there would be NO I REPEAT NO talk of "ok

son, I understand your are interesting in porking our little girl for the rest of your days. Thats all well and good but how much do think you will be spending on the engagment ring?". IT IS JUST SO <deleted> RUDE!!

The main point I'm making is the guy and the girl are the only two that matter. They are choosing to start a family. some apron strings need to be cut.

[Abrak]

The main point I'm making is the guy and the girl are the only two that matter. They are choosing to start a family. some apron strings need to be cut.

I hope you realize that 90% of Thais would fundamentally disagree with you over this issue.

[Loz]

I hope you realize that none of that 90% will ever see you as a Thai. You will be expected to bend to their ways if you don't assert your own beliefs.

Most nice thais who follow buddism would be happy to live and let live according to the four tenants of their faith. They are easy going people who don't seek confrontation. They have a happy go lucky philosophy and would laugh at the vitriol of this thread as it would simply mean making more tamboon to make up for the hate.

Just because you have not tried another approach, Abrak, does not mean there isn't a perfectly viable one.

[Loz]

How does little oppressed wifey learn to become all power wiel

[Sinsod1]

The main point I'm making is the guy and the girl are the only two that matter. They are choosing to start a family. some apron strings need to be cut.

I hope you realize that 90% of Thais would fundamentally disagree with you over this issue.

Despite what others have said I have not posted to any of the responses because I wanted to read everyones response. I have been deep in thought about this and I do not want to pay it. And I disagree that 200,000 baht is trifle-put it this way-how many people in the USA or the UK would have 6,000 US dollars 0or 4,500 Euros just lying around in this day and age. Keep in mind that the bulk of us living here are living on 50-80k baht per month. Then the majority of us are not living in a 2k baht a month room so we spend alot to live here. The point is that is not a small amount of money in this country. Sure if you are older or have a company you have the money but if you are living on a fixed income (retiree for example) or are making 60K etc a month it is not a small amount of money.

My girlfriend has left me with the impression that the sinsod is paid regardless of the children. I also found it completely laughable that her mother had the nerve to even suggest, even in passing, a million baht. Just four months ago my GF mom asked her to ask me for 100,000 baht to borrow (yeah right) so she could buy her son in law a truck. She said she would pay the money back after she went to her bank in Issan and got the money out of her account. I never understood this as if the money is in the bank just transfer it. I felt like I was being lied to and did not give her the money.

I give my girl 20,000 baht a month because she stopped working (I asked her to as I said before) and she has two kids to support that live with her mother. She also said she was making that kind of money before (14,000 baht a month plus 6,000 in tips) working in a hair salon near Lumpini BTS. In fact she has told me several times that 20,000 baht a month is not alot of money and that she had money saved up before (like 100,000 baht) but since she stopped working she used it all. I have always felt 20,000 baht was good money for her but I get the feeling sometimes it is not.

Bottom line is that I am not comfortable with this situation anymore. It has made me rethink taking care of two small children (she had them one year apart. She left the father because he had a crappy job and would not find a better one and they never had money), and all the associated responsibilities and being involved with her mother as well. Her mom claims to have saved alot of money on her own even though she does not work and her husband is a taxi driver(and from what I understand they do not make alot of money). Now my GF sister wants her daughter to go to school in Bangkok and live with the mom. My GF said her mom cannot take care of three children so my GF wants her two year old son to live with us now.

Sure I may have made mistakes like paying too much etc. But I love her and she has generally been good to me and I have tried to be the same to her. But this is becoming too much. And to make matters worse I would not know how to end it because she lives with me. I cannot just throw her out on the street and the thought of her struggling again as I saw her and being corrupted by the people she was hanging out with when I met her pains me. But I know feel I have to figure out how to end this.

[tavarich]

Sure I may have made mistakes like paying too much etc. But I love her and she has generally been good to me and I have tried to be the same to her. But this is becoming too much. And to make matters worse I would not know how to end it because she lives with me. I cannot just throw her out on the street and the thought of her struggling again as I saw her and being corrupted by the people she was hanging out with when I met her pains me. But I know feel I have to figure out how to end this.

You have a tough call to make. Bottom line is you have to take care of yourself first to be able to take care of anyone else.

[slapout]

Reading your last sentence sinsod1, my feeling is your getting there. A gentle nudge or a swift kick in the a.. for a 100% commitment and you can look back later in life, review the turning points, and give experienced advice to another newbie. Wish you good luck in your search.

[lannarebirth]

<modified quote removed>

Here's where you made your mistake. Should have given her the money, and then when she didn't pay it back all future tendering of funds are voided. Anyway, from the sounds of it, the girlfriend is stretching the truth a bit with regards to what funding is appropriate here. Also she has failed to protect you from the schemes of others, which to me should be a fundamental obligation of hers. Do what you like, but I think I'd move on.

Edited February 19, 2010 by cdnvic
please do not modify original quotations except to shorten

[YanTree]

Bunch of typical TV farang snob replies. Them claiming that her sister's husband paid 75k is very believable (remember many times it is made in payments or borrowed from friends and family) and them asking you to pay 200,000 does not suggest they are taking advantage of you. That is a pretty low number for a 'first offer' to a Farang. Many ask for a Million or 500k+.

Offer them 100,000, obviously you can afford it and it will save you a lot of heartache. If you don't pay then you will either lose the woman or her mother will be bitching about it to her forever and thus your wife will be making your life hel_l for it forever. If you want to marry her, that is not worth it.

Don't listen to anybody who tells you something along the lines of 'you don't have to pay sin sod' or 'if she really loves you she wont make you pay' or anything like that - they are sin sod deniers and do not understand Thai culture - they are probably all stingy bastards who refused to pay it and got away with it or refused to pay it and are trying to make themselves feel better for having lost a woman they loved because of it. Either that or ignorant people who have never lived here or taken the time to get to know the culture.

Edited February 19, 2010 by YanTree

[Latindancer]

Offer them 100,000.

Don't listen to anybody who tells you something along the lines of 'you don't have to pay sin sod' .

..........ignorant people who have never lived here or taken the time to get to know the culture.

I respectfully submit that in Thai culture people don't pay sin sod for a woman with children.....the reason being that they will have to pay regularly for the childrens' upbringing.

My experience of Thai culture is that things like this are a kind of equation, which has to balance out in the end.

As in :

"The richer person pays"

"you did such-and-such for me last year, therefore I owe you for that, either in time or money"

I have started 2 sin sot threads........I am marrying a cute Issan girl, 32 years old, previously married for 5 years, no kids, uni educated (though she still owes the government 108,000 baht for the higher education loan ). Her father ( who is actually a nice guy ) initially wanted 100,000 baht but settled for (around 30,000...."up to you" ) after I explained the education loan would drain us at marriage's start.

I tried to get out of it totally, but fiancee seemed upset at this, as did dad. "Face" would be lost, I guess.

I often get the impression that the actual price depends on how much the husband is capable of paying, rather than an actual value the parents feel she cost them in upbringing......like a primitive form of socialism......taking from those better off and redistributing it.

Fiancee's mother actually apparently said :"how much can he pay".

You have shown you can pay. So it seems that this has set the trend.

However if you're not completely satisfied with the girl, let her down gently. "When in doubt, DON'T". Plenty of fish out there.

It was a miracle, but my fiancee is everything I've wanted in a girl......except tall....haha....but I've always said height is the LAST thing I'm looking for. Personality-wise, she is utterly loveable, generally sincere, and sincerely loves me. In 10 months I've never had cause to doubt her. Find someone like this.

Go for a girl with education.

[jdinasia]

YanTree ---

You are suggesting that he pay based on Thai culture and tradition. Thai culture and tradition do not support paying sinsod when a woman has children.

Need anything else be said?

[Boo]

The thai man I am married to said that no thai man he knows has ever paid sin sod to a previously married woman with kids, some have been in relationships with them, a was my husband for a few years before we met (a full time wokring mother who held down a senior nurse position in the local hospital who daughter is disabled, no money expected & the mum managed to work & take care of her daughter, reat women, thankfully I can consider her a freind & she is an indiation of what a really hardworking, independant & decent (thai) women is)

I understand the op not wanting his gf to work long hours, esp if it infringes on their relationship but am confused as to why the op's gf can't get a job with less hours/money & if he wishes, makes upt he difference. It seems (to me) that she is sat on her behind all day not even taking care of her own kids but still expects financial support from the op to give to her mum & kids.

Maybe the best solution would be to take the 2 kids in, raise them together, continue paying the 20k baht a month but at least then you would know the money was going to good use.

Wish someone would give me 20k baht a month for f-all & someone else take care of my 3 year old son too. What a nice & easy life your gf must have & how very very ungrateful she sounds despite it.

And FYI, sin sot is a part of thai culture, we know plenty of thai men who spend years saving to make the display at their wedding to thai women but in most cases it is for show & returned to the couple or invested in land/property/biiness for the couples future but it isn't paid. nor expected for previously married women or those with kids from prior relationships.

[Latindancer]

Absolutely Ridiculous! A million Baht for a woman with two small children from Issan. You have got to understand that the Mother has a tremendous influence over your girlfriend/Fiance. This is a given. She is a greedy money grubbing B. You need to get a third party Thai person to be your advocate and explain the situation, that this may be her only chance at redemption. As you say you have been providing support for a year or so and I'm sure the mother has benefited from this. Have your Thai advocate explain that you will provide very well for her daughter and grandchildren , but wil not be extorted. Offer to provide her her with some small level of support , which will be unavoidable. If you cannot come to some sort of agrreable arrangement with a small Sin Sod then you are in as some others have mentioned in a "no win" situation.

LL

You are the source of your own problem, you created it by giving 20,000 a month to the mother, now she figures she can make a financial killing off of you. I know that you will not remedy the situation by cutting your losses and running, but paying sin sot for a woman that already has two children is out of the question.

I would give your wife an option, she take care of the children at your home city, and stop the mothers income, if you want to be generous give her 2,000 baht per month. do not get married now see how your arrangement works out before proceeding to your next step.

I have another question for you, what did your wife do when her mother treated you that way, making you sit out side with no water, if your answer is "not a thing" you are wasting your time and will lose a lot of money in the process.

Cut your losses and leave, your GF also if she will not go with you.

Good Luck, you will need it.

Cheers:

"Not a thing" would indicate the girl is subserviant to the mother ( if not in cahoots ) and will not take your side. Your girlfriend should have given you a glass of water.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Latindancer

[YanTree]

I agree her having kids is a reason why there should be no sin sod but he said she was unmarried so it is not open and shut.

And every time this topic appears on Thai Visa there is a knee jerk reaction by the majority of people that reply that the woman or her family are always scamming and anybody who pays is an idiot and blah blah blah.

As I said, bunch of typical TV farang snobs.

[Abrak]

I hope you realize that none of that 90% will ever see you as a Thai. You will be expected to bend to their ways if you don't assert your own beliefs.

Can a marriage really work if you assert your beliefs and do not respect hers.

I have no approach, I have never given or been asked for money from any family of a GF of mine. I think it is best that they are not involved in my relationship. So I cannot claim any generosity. To be honest I dont like the idea much and I would probably pay it rather than discuss the issue for which there isnt anything intelligent to discuss.

To me it is totally demeaning for all concerned to negotiate a Sin Sod with your GF's parents. I am simply not prepared to do it.

To me if you paid even though it wasnt in line with your principles but you respected your GF's, I believe you hold the moral high ground. Others will clearly see me as a sucker.

To me if you have any principles simply accept that it is not an issue that is worthy of discussion.

[yabaaaa]

The one thing more annoying than a troll is the guy running around screaming "troll!".

Even troll posts can be made informative, a credit to the participants.

One troll caller post deleted.

Maybe if u checked my record on troll calling? but he

hasnt replied since this is his first post

[Latindancer]

Actually, he replied further up this page.....post # 134

Just for the record, I don't feel good about paying even the 30,000 agreed on for my sinsod. It goes against my grain.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Latindancer

[jdinasia]

I agree her having kids is a reason why there should be no sin sod but he said she was unmarried so it is not open and shut.

And every time this topic appears on Thai Visa there is a knee jerk reaction by the majority of people that reply that the woman or her family are always scamming and anybody who pays is an idiot and blah blah blah.

As I said, bunch of typical TV farang snobs.

Has kids = open and shut

[samuibeachcomber]

after sinsod1 reply no 134,and having read it i reckon his best option is to get out while the going is good.Sounds to me as if his g/f is as bad as her mother.They are out to get you for as much as they can.You are damned if you do and damned if you dont pay what they are asking for.

I know you dont want to let the g/f down but believe me they are brillant at making you feel guilty,brillant at crocodile tears,and can be lethal to your health if they smell a rat deserting a sinking ship.

You take care sinsod1.If you stay and agree to their demands you will sink like a ship and go broke and have an unhappy ending anyway.better to have the unhappy ending now while you are still solvent.

Remember they are not your kids,not your baggage,and even though you might not believe this,they will survive without you.

If you do decide to leave,leave swiftly,dont make a song and dance about it.Just walk away,give no notice and to salve your conscience leave her some money on the kitchen table.

[lannarebirth]

What 20k baht/mo will get you in Thailand. Maybe money better spent:

http://www.thaistudentcharity.org/index.ph...2&Itemid=60

[Loz]

....Can a marriage really work if you assert your beliefs and do not respect hers.

Er.. Can a marriage really work if only her beliefs are respected?

To me if you have any principles simply accept that it is not an issue that is worthy of discussion.

This makes so little sense I can't begin to imagine what you were thinking when you wrote it. It sounds like you are saying if you have any principles, keep them locked in a box in case they get in the way of your wife's or her family's.

[barky]

I find it totally unbelievable that you suffered the indignity of, and the big slap on the face upon your first meeting with the bit*ch scum-bag mother. I'd have walked immediately and told the g/f to chose you or mom (of course knowing that you were going to lose) and right now you'd probably be walking around with some genuinely wonderful girl on your arm whose parents accept and respect you. You have totally wasted your time ever since the moment you met the mother.

[YanTree]

Has kids = open and shut

For you, maybe. The OP's girlfriend's family is asking for one and my ex-girlfriend's mother wanted one when we were discussing getting married: she had a son from a relationship when she was a freshman in college - never got married. I'm sure many other families have wanted one when their daughters already had children - so evidently not.

I'll give you that it is probably rare for Thai men to pay in this situation, if they ever pay at all - though I would imagine it is quite common for farang to be asked to pay one in this situation. Call it a scam call it them taking advantage of us call it whatever you want - it is expected by a lot of families and if you don't want to make waves and risk you future wife leaving you, it is probably best just to pay the damned thing if it isn't a lot of money to you.

Standing your ground for the sake of standing your ground is pretty stupid in Thailand, you'll get eaten alive with an approach like that.

[Latindancer]

after sinsod1 reply no 134,and having read it i reckon his best option is to get out while the going is good.Sounds to me as if his g/f is as bad as her mother.They are out to get you for as much as they can.You are damned if you do and damned if you dont pay what they are asking for.

I know you dont want to let the g/f down but believe me they are brillant at making you feel guilty,brillant at crocodile tears,and can be lethal to your health if they smell a rat deserting a sinking ship.

You take care sinsod1.If you stay and agree to their demands you will sink like a ship and go broke and have an unhappy ending anyway. Better to have the unhappy ending now while you are still solvent.

Remember they are not your kids,not your baggage,and even though you might not believe this,they will survive without you.

If you do decide to leave,leave swiftly,dont make a song and dance about it.Just walk away,give no notice and to salve your conscience leave her some money on the kitchen table.

Unfortunately I agree with every word.

And though I'm inclined to say don't give warning, I note you've said you can't just throw her out on the street. But as the song says, there are 50 ways to leave your lover.

However if you want to stay together with her, there is no obligation to marry. Just politely tell the mother you don't want the responsibilities, and point out how generous you have been. And you HAVE been......too much so, as other posters have pointed out.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Latindancer