No More Honda Cbr150, Phantom Ta200 And Sonic 125

[Richard-BKK]

With the Honda CBR150R, Sonic 125 and Honda Phantom TA200 of the market, and Honda not having a replacement for around 1 to 2 months, will other manufacturers – like Tiger, Lifan or Zongshen – be able to fill this vacuum.

According to some rumors, Tiger is working on a budget version of the Boxer 250RS, likely without the extras as aluminum rear swing-arm, and sporty Tsukigi exhaust system.

Lifan is pushing it hard to pass the emission tests, Chinese engineers traveled to Thailand to do on the spot corrections. It is also said that Lifan promised the Thai government of using Thailand as ASEAN hub for manufacturing and distribution of its motorcycles.

Zongshen, another Chinese manufacturer with a good reputation of producing quality motorcycles, Zongshen has signed a deal with BigC supermarkets and has a pretty good financing plan for its bikes. With BigC as supporter they have nearly nationwide sales coverage. Also Zongshen did not excluded the regular dealers, Zongshen dealers will be able to get more profit per bike sold then any other manufacturer (and the great financing plan is also available for small dealers/bike shops).

Probably Lifan will not gets its act together, they did not even started working on a dealer network, before Honda will introduce the next line-up of motorcycles with more then 4-gears.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[katabeachbum]

Platinum was in this segment, they left and most buyers still dont have reg books for what they have payed for

JRD was here, last months their promotion was 2 for one, pay 49k for 2 scoots.

TIT, people are very loyal to brandnames. 2 bikenames have 90% of the market. 2 pickupnames have 80% of the market. 2 carnames have 80% of the market.

[Richard-BKK]

Platinum is still active in Thailand, it is not my favorite brand, but I have two friends who are very happy with a Platinum motorcycle... I never hear about a motorcycle sold in Thailand (under 250cc) direct from an authorized dealer which came without greenbook? Okay some enduro/trail bikes from Kawasaki and maybe others cannot pass the roadsafety tests... but I'm sure any potential buyer knows that.

Sure, Thai people are brand loyal, but what if THE brands do not sell the bikes they want?

[katabeachbum]

Platinum is still active in Thailand, it is not my favorite brand, but I have two friends who are very happy with a Platinum motorcycle... I never hear about a motorcycle sold in Thailand (under 250cc) direct from an authorized dealer which came without greenbook? Okay some enduro/trail bikes from Kawasaki and maybe others cannot pass the roadsafety tests... but I'm sure any potential buyer knows that.

Sure, Thai people are brand loyal, but what if THE brands do not sell the bikes they want?

Platinum Phuket and some other provinces. Sold bikes on red plates, still no books years later. Havent payed to Platinum BKK I guess, so docs for reg are not provided. No book, money lost. Quality issues in addition. Now you have heard about it

Cases like this makes people even more loyal to brand names and large suppliers.

[Richard-BKK]

@katabeachbum,

I agree, so lets forget Platinum motorcycles. Which motorcycle would you suggest as alternative to a Honda CBR150, Sonic 125 or the Honda Phantom TA200?

[katabeachbum]

@katabeachbum,

I agree, so lets forget Platinum motorcycles. Which motorcycle would you suggest as alternative to a Honda CBR150, Sonic 125 or the Honda Phantom TA200?

there are only 4 brands in this segment accepted by thai market,

Honda, yammy, kwaker suzuki

CBR 150 has no present competition

Sonic 125 can easily be replaced by yammy 135, kwaker kaze, suz ?

Phantom. Kwaker boss

I still find Hondas marketing strategy odd, by pulling these bikes before giving a hint on whats around the corner. or perhaps they are very clever, trying to clear stocks while everyone still believe this is last chance before everything is injection, CVT or over 100k baht.

[PeaceBlondie]

A month or two can be absorbed with existing inventory. The CBR150 can be replaced by CBR125-FI. I never have seen a civilian Tiger Boxer north of BKK. Never seen a Lifan. Nor a Zungshan.

[Richard-BKK]

Peaceblondie, we all know that in Chiang Mai they not have Tiger motorcycles, lets hope it stays like that. But for the rest of the country I have the idea that lots of changes are in the air.

To explain the move of Honda, after MARCH they not sell carburettor motorcycles anymore, because they cannot register them anymore. So clearing stock is not a option. Officially the plan was to finish selling carburettor motorcycles at January but to much dealers had still stock..

[Richard-BKK]

The CBR125Ri is also a interesting option, but will Thai people buy a 125cc motorcycle with fuel-injection which is only around 8,000 Baht cheaper then a Honda 250cc class motorcycle (actually 223cc) with fuel-injection???

I ask this because some people have the idea that Honda could introduce an 223cc single-cylinder for around 80,000 Baht. And because the Honda CBR125Ri is sold in Europe and North-America it has be equipped with more safety features and better electronics...

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[thaicbr]

Peaceblondie, we all know that in Chiang Mai they not have Tiger motorcycles, lets hope it stays like that. But for the rest of the country I have the idea that lots of changes are in the air.

To explain the move of Honda, after MARCH they not sell carburettor motorcycles anymore, because they cannot register them anymore. So clearing stock is not a option. Officially the plan was to finish selling carburettor motorcycles at January but to much dealers had still stock..

iF THE STATEMENT IN bold IS TRUE. Why have Yamaha just released a NEW Mio 125 with a carb?

Edited February 22, 2010 by thaicbr

[katabeachbum]

Peaceblondie, we all know that in Chiang Mai they not have Tiger motorcycles, lets hope it stays like that. But for the rest of the country I have the idea that lots of changes are in the air.

To explain the move of Honda, after MARCH they not sell carburettor motorcycles anymore, because they cannot register them anymore. So clearing stock is not a option. Officially the plan was to finish selling carburettor motorcycles at January but to much dealers had still stock..

iF THE STATEMENT IN bold IS TRUE. Why have Yamaha just released a NEW Mio 125 with a carb?

was wondering the same. howcome yammy and others are abel to make engines less than 200cc passing thai emission with carbs? and prefere to keep carbs for several reasons.

I can understand Hondas imageboost going injection on small bikes, and when doing so go all the line, since eventually they will have to train staff and get equipment to service injection. But emission?

[Richard-BKK]

A carburettor doesn't by definition has to produce more CO2-emission. For the perfect combustion not only a fuel-injection is needed, a shaped combustion chamber, higher-voltage-coil, pre-ingestion (so the fuel-mixture has more time to burn completely), modified exhaust system. Trust me, there are lots of options available to reduce CO2 emissions.

Most manufacturers select the fuel-injection option, as this is the simplest way, to reduce CO2 Emissions and provide a near perfect engine fueling. I wrote some time ago an article about Fuel-injection vs Carburettors, and all the fuel-injection benefits also meet the same amount of points less beneficial (but that should be an complete other discussion).

I have no inside what technique Yamaha is using to reduce CO2 emissions, I can only repeat what Honda told the press at the introduction of the Honda Wave110iAT. And that was "Honda will stop selling carburettor motorcycles at the end of March". I was told that the reason was that after March owners could encounter difficulty registering there bikes.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

A little checkup, from April 2010 all motorcycles need to meet the Euro3 emission standard, previous this was a rule but was allowed for older models. From April this grey acceptance is over.

In an article in the Bangkok Post, AP Honda also said that next month all of its bikes would have fuel injection to comply with Euro3 emission standards, and it would no longer produce motorcycles with carburetors.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[ScubaBuddha]

Platinum is still active in Thailand, it is not my favorite brand, but I have two friends who are very happy with a Platinum motorcycle... I never hear about a motorcycle sold in Thailand (under 250cc) direct from an authorized dealer which came without greenbook? Okay some enduro/trail bikes from Kawasaki and maybe others cannot pass the roadsafety tests... but I'm sure any potential buyer knows that.

Sure, Thai people are brand loyal, but what if THE brands do not sell the bikes they want?

Platinum Phuket and some other provinces. Sold bikes on red plates, still no books years later. Havent payed to Platinum BKK I guess, so docs for reg are not provided. No book, money lost. Quality issues in addition. Now you have heard about it

Cases like this makes people even more loyal to brand names and large suppliers.

I have a Platinum bought new in Nov. 2007. Still no book. Still on dodgy looking home made red plate. Platinum is not issuing books since the previous owner of the Platinum shop in Phuket still owes Platinum for several bikes, and he is still a business owner here selling pools or furniture or something. There are over 20 such bikes on the island. I am just hoping the BIB don't take it one day.

[Richard-BKK]

@ScubaBuddha

Start a discussion about Platinum motorcycle so you can mobilize other users with similar problems and get the new owner to fix your problems. But I not believe it has anything to do with the topic of this discussion?

[dave_boo]

The CBR125Ri is also a interesting option, but will Thai people buy a 125cc motorcycle with fuel-injection which is only around 8,000 Baht cheaper then a Honda 250cc class motorcycle (actually 223cc) with fuel-injection???

I ask this because some people have the idea that Honda could introduce an 223cc single-cylinder for around 80,000 Baht. And because the Honda CBR125Ri is sold in Europe and North-America it has be equipped with more safety features and better electronics...

The difference being that any current 223 bikes don't really fill the position that the CBR 150R has enjoyed.  Having looked around, the 223 engine isn't that different from Tiger's offering in terms of performance; this could be a positive since that segment of the market has been overlooked, but a Boxer is not a CBR and as stated earlier I don't see how they can massage the 223 engine to provide the sporty caracatheristics that people expect from such a bike.

[katabeachbum]

@ScubaBuddha

Start a discussion about Platinum motorcycle so you can mobilize other users with similar problems and get the new owner to fix your problems. But I not believe it has anything to do with the topic of this discussion?

I believe it has very much to do with this discusion, since you presented alternatives to Honda, yammy, suzuki and kwaker

LOS market will be hard for any new brand name. No trust.

[gmac]

If it will only be two months with Honda's bikes off the market I would think that what we would see is a general downturn in sales of bikes for this period. The general love of Honda in this country is likely to make any potential customers hold off for a couple of months to see what new bikes Honda has to offer rather than switch models. If they come back with big price increases, then we may see switches to Tiger and others but I for one as a current CBR rider and potential Tiger Boxer customer (due to lack of alternatives to the CBR) will watch with interest for whatever injection models Honda brings forth.

[Richard-BKK]

The difference being that any current 223 bikes don't really fill the position that the CBR 150R has enjoyed.  Having looked around, the 223 engine isn't that different from Tiger's offering in terms of performance; this could be a positive since that segment of the market has been overlooked, but a Boxer is not a CBR and as stated earlier I don't see how they can massage the 223 engine to provide the sporty caracatheristics that people expect from such a bike.

Dave_Boo,

I agree the reworked 223cc engine with fuel-injection will never create a pure sport bike, I not believe that Honda is going that way. I have more the idea that Honda will use the new reworked 223cc engine to power a supermotard style motorcycle. And maybe an enduro/trail bike.

Pure speculations this could be a modern version of the XR230SM and the XR230. But would this motorcycles be successful in Thailand?

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[dave_boo]

Dave_Boo,

I agree the reworked 223cc engine with fuel-injection will never create a pure sport bike, I not believe that Honda is going that way. I have more the idea that Honda will use the new reworked 223cc engine to power a supermotard style motorcycle. And maybe an enduro/trail bike.

Pure speculations this could be a modern version of the XR230SM and the XR230. But would this motorcycles be successful in Thailand?

Up in Nakhon Nowhere I'm sure that if Honda reached their price-point and marketed it right it'd be a raging success....especially if it was more styled like the Boxer (read twin rear shocks, heavy frame, etc to make it a utilitarian mo-cyc).

That's actually a big beef I have with Tiger; they did not capitalise on the market with their Boxer.  A heavy ad campaign combined with nationwide demonstrations could have, in my opinion, convinced a lot of those who are still using the old GTO and similar bikes as work vehicles hauling propane and what not to upgrade.  Even doing some viral marketing with the Boxer running against the Ninja in town traffic or the CBR 150R on the Umphang Road may have turned the tide.  I understand that Tiger is working to capacity, but they'll never get ahead and develop bikes that can compete against the big four by sticking with what they're doing now.

[Richard-BKK]

The main problem for Tiger is marketing budget, it's for many Thai companies a problem. I especially worried about Tiger as more and more Chinese companies will enter Thailand to do business in Southeast-Asia. It will not take long before the two-wheel giants from India also move this way, Bajaj Auto is already here, HeroHonda works close together with Honda Thailand. And HMSI has plans to open office here.

It seems sometimes that all Indians are family of another and it would not surprise me if Pulsar, another Indian motorcycle manufacturer, will beat all others to start office here.

All this companies a giants if compared to Tiger Thailand, and most are well aware how to do product marketing.

[thunder30101]

Ill take an xr223sm but what about the over 200cc tax ??? Any word on that from honda ? Would buy a klr250 tomorrow but not for the license fee.

[dave_boo]

Ill take an xr223sm but what about the over 200cc tax ??? Any word on that from honda ? Would buy a klr250 tomorrow but not for the license fee.

My understanding is that's been done away with....up to a certain level.

[Richard-BKK]

License fee? Do you mean the 600 Baht (or was it 900 Baht) for motorcycles under 250cc?

Edited February 22, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[neverdie]

Richard,

As with most of your 'rubbish' pedalling, you assume that just because Honda or one of the other major Japanese brands is between models like Honda apparently is that people will SUDDENLY need to replace their bike and have no option but to run out and buy one of these crappy brands.

As a few of the dedicated Honda CBR150 fans have stated, they will sit back and wait to see what the CBR125i or similar is about and consider options at that point, in the mean time they will keep pushing their carby models around.

For those that are suddenly without a ride during this time, it may certainly pay to rent something for a few weeks/months while the new bikes come off the line.

[katabeachbum]

Ill take an xr223sm but what about the over 200cc tax ??? Any word on that from honda ? Would buy a klr250 tomorrow but not for the license fee.

My understanding is that's been done away with....up to a certain level.

excise tax free limit moved from 200cc to 250cc. so only yearly roadtax like 700 baht on bikes less than 250cc.

[Richard-BKK]

I believe that the insurance for motorcycles over 150cc is a bit higher. The compulsory insurance for a motorcycle over 150cc is 645 Baht. Below 150cc is 430 Baht, and lower than 125cc 322 Baht per year.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[neverdie]

^Cheap as chips Richard, for all classes.

[Richard-BKK]

Apparently one Chinese manufacturer who opened an assemble shop in Thailand has made a deal with Chiang Mai Tourist Police. It would be very interesting to see this Stallion motorcycle with side-car going uphill with two people and gear.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[markg]

Yesterday i saw a Tiger Boxer 200cc motorcycle in Police spec which looked quite nice.

Anyone know the deal on that? Prices etc?

Is it definitely true that the cc limit has gone to 250 cc now ?

I can't help thinking that a nice parallel or V twin motorcycle at 250cc would be nice on Thai roads and in traffic.

A friend of mine bought a Platinum off-road type motorcy and had loads of problems. As we say in the Uk, they look like they are stamped out of pie tins.