Thai Dogs Vs Farang Rights. What Comes First?

[backsoon]

Introduction. Farang, Retiree, Country dweller, over 3 years in LoS, Reasonably happy with the lifestyle here, except when it bites and becomes a pain in the butt... which brings us to the story.

Story. Last night I went for a walk on a beach. At some point I passed by a new development site. Suddenly a pack of 8 dogs ran out onto the beach, surrounded me, growling, snarling and attacking me from all points. I must say here that I am not scared of dogs, I could manage chasing off 2-3 of them easily. But not 8, with no stick or rock to threaten them with. In short time the alpha male big bastard got me just above the knee. What pissed me off more than the dogs, was a Thai woman standing at the property step onto the beach where the dogs came from and watching all the developing battle.

So, I got bitten, my knee bleeding, I scream abuse to her (sure she didn't understand), finally she walks out onto the beach and chases the dogs away. They run back into the property (development construction site). I continue walking, but start limping, feel pain, anger and deside to return. Would you believe it? Passing by the same site, the same 8 dogs give me a chase again! This time no casualty, as I picked up a 4-5 ft bamboo stick, but the Thai woman didn't even show up. Now I am really pissed. I go to local Police.

Make a statement. Show the bleeding knee. They right it down in a book. take me into their car and we drive to the property. Police talks to the man. The woman is also there. So are the dogs. I do not understand neither of them, except for the dogs. The man goes into the police car and they all escourt me home. On the way, Police officer says I must go to the city hospital (some 40km away) for rabies vaccine.

I did go. Had an injection, was given a kilo of useless tablets and paid 545bt. I was also told that I must come back 4 more times for the same. LoS!

Any constructive ideas, advice??? Please, serious comments only. I have an acute sense of humour, and understand how lucky I am the dog didn't go for the groin. So, have a laugh, but to yourself, because right now I am not in the best of my moods, and try to avoid being rude to anyone.

Have I any rights? Are there any laws? Can they be enforced? Or TIT your mama?

[t.s]

the thai solution would be to return with a big bag full of poisoned pork.

[HS Mauberley]

I've never been in this situation but I'd say forget about it. You say the dogs come from a building site - the woman may well work there and know the dogs but that doesn't mean that they're hers. And, in any case, people in Thailand often have different - looser, more relaxed - relationships with animals so ownership is pretty hard to establish. If I were you, I'd take my medicine and - if you want to do something about it - go back to the same spot but with a pick-axe handle this time. I'd deal with the dogs that way.

[Jingthing]

Well since the dogs were associated with a Thai person, of course the dogs trump. If we are talking non-owned soi/street dogs vs. farang, that's a more interesting question. However, they would still trump as they are Thai dogs. Look, long stayers have probably all had similar experiences dealing with frustrating Thai cultural differences here. Your case is a bit severe. I think those considering moving move here who are still in the land of smiles/rose colored glasses phase should be informed before they make they move as to what they are really getting into.

[HS Mauberley]

^ I don't think Thai-foreign comes into it. I have a pretty strong suspicion that this type of situation doesn't really fall into the area dealt with by the law/forces of the state. As ts said, most Thais, if they really wanted to do something about it, wouldn't go to the police.

[neverdie]

Plus theres a good thread on here yesterday that mentioned information about RABIES. I had no idea about that before hand, you need to take that stuff seriously, make sure you have the other injections.

[bkkjames]

Well since the dogs were associated with a Thai person, of course the dogs trump. If we are talking non-owned soi/street dogs vs. farang, that's a more interesting question. However, they would still trump as they are Thai dogs. Look, long stayers have probably all had similar experiences dealing with frustrating Thai cultural differences here. Your case is a bit severe. I think those considering moving move here who are still in the land of smiles/rose colored glasses phase should be informed before they make they move as to what they are really getting into.

What are you saying JT - if you are afraid of dogs, don't move here?

The other day on my soi one of the local MUTTS bit someone - a Thai I believe. The dog is no longer around to give his side of the story.

[Birdman]

Something like that happened to me once on a beach. Thai owner apologised and paid for the rabies vaccine. That's it.

[Jingthing]

Well since the dogs were associated with a Thai person, of course the dogs trump. If we are talking non-owned soi/street dogs vs. farang, that's a more interesting question. However, they would still trump as they are Thai dogs. Look, long stayers have probably all had similar experiences dealing with frustrating Thai cultural differences here. Your case is a bit severe. I think those considering moving move here who are still in the land of smiles/rose colored glasses phase should be informed before they make they move as to what they are really getting into.

What are you saying JT - if you are afraid of dogs, don't move here?

The other day on my soi one of the local MUTTS bit someone - a Thai I believe. The dog is no longer around to give his side of the story.

Not exactly. I am saying this is a very rough country not for the faint of heart, and in almost all cases when there is a conflict between Thai and foreigner, the Thai is going to win, and most Thais behave like they know that, so beware. That's all.

[apetley]

Something like that happened to me once on a beach. Thai owner apologised and paid for the rabies vaccine. That's it.

I had a similar experience at home, nipped by a dog and the owner paid for the rabies shots as they admitted their dog hadn't had any.

Another time I was attacked by some monster mongrel that thankfully only ripped my cycling shoe but they cost close to 10k bht so I felt the pain. The owner refused to accept any responsibility and the dog continued to menace me out on my rides. It's not around anymore, settled Thai style.

[sbk]

We have a large building site near us, occupied by the builders working the site. All of them itinerant workers and they have loads of dogs. The owner of the property has nothing to do with the dogs. The "owners" of the dogs are only such in a very loose sense of the word.

You are trying to get blood from a stone here, these people are probably making minimum wage (what is that 150 baht a day?) if the dogs had been owned by the property owner and the property owner had been there, then you probably could have gotten compensation but in this case? highly unlikely.

and before you pooh pooh the idea of getting compensation for a dog bite, I know several people who have.

[Huey]

Poisoned Pork is the best bet. What if you where a lil girl? Or any child or elderly person who may have been seriously torn to peices by the pack. I would killem on that General Principle

[Eff1n2ret]

The OP hasn't really made it clear what restitution he would deem adequate. Asking what rights he has invites the obvious answer, i.e. if he's lucky he might get back the cost of his injections. Beyond that, the police seem very considerate in having taken an interest at all, as I would be surprised if there was any criminal offence involved.

I met a local expat, longtime resident here, a couple of weeks ago and saw a bandage on one of his legs. "Bitten by a dog," he said, "it attacked me because I was wearing a hat." He said the rabies injections are quite painless, and laughed the whole thing off as part of life in Thailand.

I think that's probably the only reasonable attitude to take.

[GMoney]

antifreeze

[apetley]

antifreeze

Embalm the dog?

[Huey]

antifreeze

Embalm the dog?

I had 2 Great Danes killed like that when I was a child, they never bit anyone and wern't very noisy and I never found out why they were killed.

[F1fanatic]

Its incredibly unusual for Thai dogs to attack someone (even in a pack).

They are normally v gentle and cautious about people.

Get some pepper spray and keep it in your pocket when out walking. A quick burst of pepper spray near them will frighten them away if you are unfortunate enough to find the odd aggressive dog.

I too, was unlucky enough to be bit by a dog recently (one of my dogs on a lead kept barking at him and annoyed him), but it was not a soi dog - it was a bloody labrador/retriever! The next time he started approaching me I squirted my pepper spray in front of him (not in his face) and he ran a mile!

If you try to poison the dog the chances are that you'll poison lots of other, innocent dogs. Just teach the culprit (with pepper spray) to keep away.

[robblok]

It all depends how you react to dogs. I have 2 dogs and they love to bark to people who are scared. People who don't care about them they don't bark at. But they just know when you are scared and then they love to bark (not bite). So the moment i hear them bark i get out and look what they are doing. If they are harassing someone ill stop it (unless its a farang i love seeing them run).

When you run the dogs just love it and see you as prey. When you just look at them ignore them they wont do a thing most of the time. Still i can imagine its scary if a whole pack goes after you.

[backsoon]

antifreeze

Embalm the dog?

Thanks to everybody. Most considerate. And lots of good ideas.

But. I'm not Thai. Couldn't do this. Mind it, I could kill it, but not poison. Firearms are out of the question. This leaves airgun shooting heavy pellets? Or an arrow/bow? Or better still, underwater speargun?

Question is how legal are these weapons in Thailand? Self-defense is ok for locals, but do we have the same rights? I THINK I SAW AN AIRGUN FOR SALE, using big (5mm) steel pellet-balls and a small gas cylinder as power source. Is it legal? (I think I know the answer - legal for Thais, but NO-NO to me).

Thanks to all, once again.

[F1fanatic]

antifreeze

Embalm the dog?

Thanks to everybody. Most considerate. And lots of good ideas.

But. I'm not Thai. Couldn't do this. Mind it, I could kill it, but not poison. Firearms are out of the question. This leaves airgun shooting heavy pellets? Or an arrow/bow? Or better still, underwater speargun?

Question is how legal are these weapons in Thailand? Self-defense is ok for locals, but do we have the same rights? I THINK I SAW AN AIRGUN FOR SALE, using big (5mm) steel pellet-balls and a small gas cylinder as power source. Is it legal? (I think I know the answer - legal for Thais, but NO-NO to me).

Thanks to all, once again.

Why on earth are you looking to kill it when pepper spray will sort out the problem?? Something v wrong there.

Have to say Robblok that my dogs bark at Thais, they ignore Westerners! V odd.

Edited February 23, 2010 by F1fanatic

[karateka]

It's nothing to do with the Dogs ( It is owners ) that need sorting out sounds like the Dogs was protecting or acting of of fear i have a Protection Dog that could take a guy right out if needed but he is as tame as a cat too.

But to just kill Dogs is not the way you need to teach people about Dogs !!!

[phetaroi]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the OP. Pretty dam_n scary event.

But, before I go condemning Thailand for the overall situation, I have to remind people how many maulings by violent dogs there are in the U.S.

The pepper spray comment was interesting to me, because I do a lot of walking around Bangkok and elsewhere when I travel upcountry. Is pepper spray here legal? And, if it is, where does one buy it?

[F1fanatic]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the OP. Pretty dam_n scary event.

But, before I go condemning Thailand for the overall situation, I have to remind people how many maulings by violent dogs there are in the U.S.

The pepper spray comment was interesting to me, because I do a lot of walking around Bangkok and elsewhere when I travel upcountry. Is pepper spray here legal? And, if it is, where does one buy it?

I assume pepper spray is legal, cos its v easy to buy. Sorry, don't live in Bangkok so don't know where to buy it - but it can't be hard to find out.

[villagefarang]

I have a pack of dogs myself and watch them interact with people, farm animals and other individual dogs, all the time. There is plenty of rhyme and reason to what they do and why they do it.

Almost without exception, the people they take exception to, are of a questionable nature. Makes me a little suspicious whenever some says they were attacked by a dog.

That said, in a village situation like mine, you first go to the owner. If that doesn't work you go to the village headman and some form of compensation is agreed upon. That is the way the common man is used to dealing with things. That gets lost in the city.

Police and the legal system are not set up to deal with minor incidents like this and definitely not with the litigious foreigner and all his talk of rights.

[robblok]

Why on earth are you looking to kill it when pepper spray will sort out the problem?? Something v wrong there.

Have to say Robblok that my dogs bark at Thais, they ignore Westerners! V odd.

I was joking at me enjoying them barking at westerners, there are none here except me. My dogs just bark at people they dont know or who act scared. I let them walk free in the village without me a couple of times a day. They stay close to my home then and when i hear them bark i come out to check it.

[richieudon]

Head back there on another night with a bag full of poisoned meat and when they come for you just drop it on the floor.

It's what any Thai would do.

You are Farang.

You have no rights in these situations.

As another post said, it could be a small child getting mauled by these dogs (Thai or Farang).

Dogs have the right to guard the property but shouldn't attack people in public.

I get it all the time up in Baan Nok if I walk anywhere.

If I happen to go for a run I have to take a stick with me...

TiT

[robblok]

Head back there on another night with a bag full of poisoned meat and when they come for you just drop it on the floor.

It's what any Thai would do.

You are Farang.

You have no rights in these situations.

As another post said, it could be a small child getting mauled by these dogs (Thai or Farang).

Dogs have the right to guard the property but shouldn't attack people in public.

I get it all the time up in Baan Nok if I walk anywhere.

If I happen to go for a run I have to take a stick with me...

TiT

Running will always attract dogs its in their nature. So your the cause of it you have to adapt to Thailand here dogs roam free.

[karateka]

If Dogs are left alone then they might act alone,, Just owner's not the Dogs

[Murgatroyd]

Pepper spray is good, or maybe one of those hand held tasers, I always carry a stick myself... But as to your rights as a farang : The Thai fleas on those Thai dogs have got more rights than you have here.

[britmaveric]

Dogs come first I'm afraid.