Thaksin Asset Case: Bt46 Billion Will Be Seized Along With Interests

[LaoPo]

ANALYSIS

By Vaudine England, BBC News, Bangkok

By choosing to confiscate some, but not all of Mr Thaksin's known assets, the court has managed to dampen arguments from his "red shirt" supporters that the entire judiciary is suborned to a military-bureaucratic elite which intends to finish off Mr Thaksin once and for all.

But it will also weaken the government's demonisation of Mr Thaksin. It appears to be saying that the former prime minister did cheat on the hiding and increase of his fortune, but he was significantly and legitimately wealthy when he entered office. He remains a rich man by any standards.

What this verdict will not do is heal the divisions in this country, polarised by Mr Thaksin's hugely popular appeal and the threat this poses to the military-bureaucratic elite. The 2006 coup that deposed him continues to damage the legitimacy of the current military-backed government of Abhisit Vejajjiva - this basic issue also goes well beyond one man and his money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8538013.stm

LaoPo

[sunnythai]

I though this was a very fair ruling with the seizer of the forture when he was in office..........if they had seized all his money thailand would be in trouble.

[SomTumTiger]

Thais are tired of fighting and protests. I would say the chances of increased stability are better now, regardless of what Laopo's talking brit head says.

What is does do, is secure the current government's position, and the coalition partners will tow the line. Anyone who thinks Barnham and Newin will jump ship now, are bonkers. They are the biggest opportunists, and they just got 46 billion more for their "pet project slush funds". The biggest winner, will be the rural folks, who will benefit the most, long term, from the Democrat's efforts to improve education, create more local income for infrastructure, etc. Best part about yesterday? Didn't hear a single "quote" from a general. lol

[craigt3365]

I think Laopo's talking brit head is right on...this seems to be morphing into a battle of the people vs. the elite/military, not just for Thaksin's wealth (even though he is funding the battle!). Bangkok Post was plastered with articles about this battle...something I have not really seen before...at least at that level.

[brahmburgers]

Why is it a problem that the verdict is not written in English? It has nothing to do with non Thais and therefore there is absolutely no reason to release the verdict in english other than to give some dim witted know it all farangs something to gossip and speculate about. Get over yourselves, your opinion has no weight whatsoever in Thailand's affairs.

There's a lot about Thaksin that affects foreigners. Plus, foreign views on Thaksin have more that a little impact on Thailand. Bangkok's two airports were shut down - which indirectly involved Thaksin, and certainly impacted on foreigners and Thais alike. Last April, the Asean meet was spoiled and Bangkok was troubled - both directly and indirectly influenced by Thaksin and also affecting foreigners. Much of what Thaksin has done and will do affects foreigners - both those who reside here, those who come here as tourists, those who do business here, and those who are contemplating coming to Thailand.

A major court case involving the Shinawats has a lot to do with foreigners. To dismiss foreign influence so comprehensively shows Joker's shallowness and how out-of-touch he is with the real world.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I think its a fair compromise - the judgement of Soloman in many ways - be great to see the seized money go to the Thai people in the form of schooling/health care etc.

[Mario2008]

I think the interests should be paid by the banks.

Aren't they the ones that got them?

The problem is we don't have the court decision in English, not even completely in Thai yet I think. The courts reasoning might be that the 46 billion belonged to the state and were illegally taken. Thus the state missed out on the interest over the 46 billion, so Thaksin has to pay that as well. Also Thaksin himself received interest on his ill gotten gains, it would not be fair to let him keep that.

Why is it a problem that the verdict is not written in English?

It has nothing to do with non Thais and therefore there is absolutely no reason to release the verdict in english other than to give some dim witted know it all farangs something to gossip and speculate about. Get over yourselves, your opinion has no weight whatsoever in Thailand's affairs

It is a problem in so far that it makes it difficult to understand and discuss the verdict.

[ivowatson]

Respect and compliments to the members of the court who had to work through mountains of documents to arrive at a correct decision.

This is a moment to be proud of the Supreme Court and the Thai judicial system in general.

I would have preferred all his money was taken as this is IMO the only solution for "peace". Without any money he can't do anything and the reds would drop him like a hot potato.

Of course, I admit a verdict taken all his money wouldn't have been fair and just.

The Supreme Court have proved with the just, fair and very well reasoned verdict that justice is still alive here and that they don't take orders from anyone and are truly independent.

A great day for Thai justice.

[Thaising]

Respect and compliments to the members of the court who had to work through mountains of documents to arrive at a correct decision.

This is a moment to be proud of the Supreme Court and the Thai judicial system in general.

I would have preferred all his money was taken as this is IMO the only solution for "peace". Without any money he can't do anything and the reds would drop him like a hot potato.

Of course, I admit a verdict taken all his money wouldn't have been fair and just.

The Supreme Court have proved with the just, fair and very well reasoned verdict that justice is still alive here and that they don't take orders from anyone and are truly independent.

A great day for Thai justice.

[jdinasia]

The courts used judicial restraint and stuck to the letter of the law. Thaksin still faces incredible tax bills and other costs that will further drain away the 30 billion baht that was not taken. Thaksin has the chance to minimize some of his continueing losses if he just behaves.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Respect and compliments to the members of the court who had to work through mountains of documents to arrive at a correct decision.

This is a moment to be proud of the Supreme Court and the Thai judicial system in general.

I would have preferred all his money was taken as this is IMO the only solution for "peace". Without any money he can't do anything and the reds would drop him like a hot potato.

Of course, I admit a verdict taken all his money wouldn't have been fair and just.

The Supreme Court have proved with the just, fair and very well reasoned verdict that justice is still alive here and that they don't take orders from anyone and are truly independent.

A great day for Thai justice.

I actually agree - and am pleasantly surprised. Lets hope this is a turning point - it is not only fair but seen to be fair and all colours should come out and say so - a forlorn hope probably.

[thaifrelst]

It was said that 76 billion were seized. Now 46 are to be retained. What happens to the remaining 30 billion? Are they to be returned to the man who took them from the thai people?

Why bother so much for Thaksin. He will manage. Also in my country people get extremely rich over the night dealing with telecom business. I think that will be the same all over the world.

Now a new reality begins in Thailand. All people that works or have been working as officials including people in the police force, principals and so on will have to give back to the Thailand state everything they have gained from corruption.

In my country the court can go back 10 years.

Welcome to the new justice in Thailand.

[Cayenne]

This is a moment to be proud of the Supreme Court and the Thai judicial system in general.

I would have preferred all his money was taken as this is IMO the only solution for "peace". Without any money he can't do anything and the reds would drop him like a hot potato.

Of course, I admit a verdict taken all his money wouldn't have been fair and just.

The Supreme Court have proved with the just, fair and very well reasoned verdict that justice is still alive here and that they don't take orders from anyone and are truly independent.

A great day for Thai justice.

Agreed and judging from the international blogs and comments it seems many agree too. it's too bad a certain lonely figure in Dubai is still rambling on like a drama queen about this verdict.

[Samuian]

I think Laopo's talking brit head is right on...this seems to be morphing into a battle of the people vs. the elite/military, not just for Thaksin's wealth (even though he is funding the battle!). Bangkok Post was plastered with articles about this battle...something I have not really seen before...at least at that level.

"morphing into"?

It's on full throttle already, since!

How about perjury in the asset declaration?

How about perjury in claiming his former wife was in possession of ALL the asset....?

How about Justice?

How about this man is stirring up all this trouble because he simply doesn't want to stop, but want's to win - all the way!

How come this an is more and more portrayed a s the victim - great PR!

Udom Fuangfung, a former member of the Assets Examination Committee said: "Thaksin has a much loftier goal... and it perspired over the last 12-18 months...!

Edited February 27, 2010 by Samuian

[Xangsamhua]

ANALYSIS

By Vaudine England, BBC News, Bangkok

By choosing to confiscate some, but not all of Mr Thaksin's known assets, the court has managed to dampen arguments from his "red shirt" supporters that the entire judiciary is suborned to a military-bureaucratic elite which intends to finish off Mr Thaksin once and for all.

But it will also weaken the government's demonisation of Mr Thaksin. It appears to be saying that the former prime minister did cheat on the hiding and increase of his fortune, but he was significantly and legitimately wealthy when he entered office. He remains a rich man by any standards.

What this verdict will not do is heal the divisions in this country, polarised by Mr Thaksin's hugely popular appeal and the threat this poses to the military-bureaucratic elite. The 2006 coup that deposed him continues to damage the legitimacy of the current military-backed government of Abhisit Vejajjiva - this basic issue also goes well beyond one man and his money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8538013.stm

LaoPo

Another fatuous and completely predictable contribution from a foreign journalist, in this case one based in Hong Kong whose experience seems largely restricted to Hong Kong and Jakarta. Looking through a glass darkly while applying the filters of western cultural canons is not the most reliable way to inform one's readership. I'd give more credence to the views of Thaivisa.com posters who actually live here, talk to the people and see what's going on around them, but that makes it all too complicated, doesn't it - not suited to an editor's demand for a quick and compact response.

[Daveyh]

It's the right decision and very fair in my opinion. Let us all put this to bed. let the healing process begin and get the country back on it's feet as soon as possible. Too many people have suffered todate because of it ........... let's move on to a better life in this wonderful country.

[robertson468]

It was said that 76 billion were seized. Now 46 are to be retained. What happens to the remaining 30 billion? Are they to be returned to the man who took them from the thai people?

I understand that the Judges ruled that Thaksin's Business was valued at 30 billion before he became Prime Minister therefore it would be illegal to seize that portion of his wealth. Whilst I understand the seizure of the 46 billion, I had wondered if in addition there would be any punishment given by the Court? The 46 billion are considered ill-gotten gains and were "embezzeled" from the the state, so must be returned to the rightful owner - the state, with the accrued interest, therefore to my mind, there is no punishment involved for defrauding the Nation.

I watched (but didn't understand a great deal) with sadness at the reaction of the "Red Shirts", who clearly were emotional at the demise of their hero, which one can to a certain extent understand, however I so wanted to shout out, "Good and kind people of Thailand why do you grieve for a man who has stolen money from you - yes it is your money he stole!!". He obviously has more charisma in his little finger than many of us have in our whole body, but so did Stalin and Hitler.

This is clearly a considerable windfall for the Government Funds and I believe strongly that the Government should publicise widely what the funds will be spent on and when, to show the people that the money will not just disappear down some obscure black-hole, but will be used for the benefit of the People. Like many others, I pray that the Country will be able to move on from this difficult time to reap the benefits for which the Country has such outstanding potential

[thaiedward]

Comment form Thaksin: Thaksin says he should have listened to wife,children and not entered politics. Thaksin says he hopes he is the last victim.

Thaksin wears a black suit and black tie. Bt15 billion wealth acquired before Thaksin took office is a matter for consideration...

-- TAN Network/ The Nation 2010-02-26

With respect to wardrobe selection: i.e., black suit, white shirt(?) and black tie, we've seen this before. It seems (to myself, at least) that people who consider themselves to be seriously wealthy tend to dress like funeral directors.

Is this how they deal with the notion of their mortal limitations?

All I know is: they fly around our planet in LearJets and cannot tolerate the smell of cheap suits.

Regards to all.

[Mario2008]

It was said that 76 billion were seized. Now 46 are to be retained. What happens to the remaining 30 billion? Are they to be returned to the man who took them from the thai people?

I understand that the Judges ruled that Thaksin's Business was valued at 30 billion before he became Prime Minister therefore it would be illegal to seize that portion of his wealth. Whilst I understand the seizure of the 46 billion, I had wondered if in addition there would be any punishment given by the Court? The 46 billion are considered ill-gotten gains and were "embezzeled" from the the state, so must be returned to the rightful owner - the state, with the accrued interest, therefore to my mind, there is no punishment involved for defrauding the Nation.

I watched (but didn't understand a great deal) with sadness at the reaction of the "Red Shirts", who clearly were emotional at the demise of their hero, which one can to a certain extent understand, however I so wanted to shout out, "Good and kind people of Thailand why do you grieve for a man who has stolen money from you - yes it is your money he stole!!". He obviously has more charisma in his little finger than many of us have in our whole body, but so did Stalin and Hitler.

This is clearly a considerable windfall for the Government Funds and I believe strongly that the Government should publicise widely what the funds will be spent on and when, to show the people that the money will not just disappear down some obscure black-hole, but will be used for the benefit of the People. Like many others, I pray that the Country will be able to move on from this difficult time to reap the benefits for which the Country has such outstanding potential

This was not a criminal case, only a civil case. Thaksin now can face several criminal charges.

[Xangsamhua]

The UDD can demonstrate for democracy without him. They do not need him. He is not a good example. He always was corrupt and always was dangerous. Point.

Unfortunately the UDD seem to believe democracy is just about getting someone into parliament, so theoretically we could be governed entirely by gangsters, stand-over merchants, white-collar criminals and the like.

Democracy really doesn't work well unless there are checks and balances in place to overcome rampant abuse of power and privilege. The UDD hasn't expressed any concern at the level of criminality and malfeasance so evident among its favoured politicians since 2001. It doesn't seem to worry them, and that suggests they are not a suitable body to agitate for a better democracy in Thailand.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Exactly as expected but, what is next?

[RegularReader]

ANALYSIS

By Vaudine England, BBC News, Bangkok

By choosing to confiscate some, but not all of Mr Thaksin's known assets, the court has managed to dampen arguments from his "red shirt" supporters that the entire judiciary is suborned to a military-bureaucratic elite which intends to finish off Mr Thaksin once and for all.

But it will also weaken the government's demonisation of Mr Thaksin. It appears to be saying that the former prime minister did cheat on the hiding and increase of his fortune, but he was significantly and legitimately wealthy when he entered office. He remains a rich man by any standards.

What this verdict will not do is heal the divisions in this country, polarised by Mr Thaksin's hugely popular appeal and the threat this poses to the military-bureaucratic elite. The 2006 coup that deposed him continues to damage the legitimacy of the current military-backed government of Abhisit Vejajjiva - this basic issue also goes well beyond one man and his money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8538013.stm

LaoPo

Another fatuous and completely predictable contribution from a foreign journalist, in this case one based in Hong Kong whose experience seems largely restricted to Hong Kong and Jakarta. Looking through a glass darkly while applying the filters of western cultural canons is not the most reliable way to inform one's readership. I'd give more credence to the views of Thaivisa.com posters who actually live here, talk to the people and see what's going on around them, but that makes it all too complicated, doesn't it - not suited to an editor's demand for a quick and compact response.

Here hear and living here !!

The reports from some of these "foreign" journalists, is so totally out of touch with what this is all about.

It is rare for several of them to have delved far enough into the issues, beyong what they read in the Engliah language media and academic blogs, or perhaps what they get from discussions in the barrooms of Soi Cowboy and the more fashionable Thong Lor areas.

I doubt they ever bother to put any vailidity into the posts from some of the more knowlede people commenting on TV - if they ever read them ?

If they can't get it right, how on earth is anyone in the "outside" world going to understand how complex this is - and that it is not just about Thaksin ?

[newtronbom]

I think that all in all, the Court made quite a reasonable decision, under horrendous pressure, both internal and external, the results of which, could only be described as potentially/literally explosive and damaging to our Thai society. I think too, that any money the government has seized, would not even begin to scratch the surface of the damages that the "red shirt" movement and others have done to this country. The dramatic fall in tourism alone, has caused severe financial loss for this country, with many operators even going out of business. These, along with the huge cost of extra policing, army and security etc. will leave the government in debit for quite a while, I should imagine. It is beside the point really, who is right or who is wrong. Which ever way you look at this thing, it is something Thailand could well do without. I only hope that now, people will give the present government a lot more support and start trying to recover the economy and repair some of the damage caused by just ONE MAN!! He is a brilliant businessman and some of the charges against him are undoubtedly politically motivated, but I still think he abused his position in government for personal gain - which I agree was the norm and still is, to some degree, the norm for Thai politics(and many western politicians) - but it seems to me that the times are a changing - albeit slowly - but I see change for the better happening under Khun Abhisit and his team, so I say that we should all try to help them, not just toss criticism and abuse. This government is the best chance for Thailand that I have seen, in the 20 plus years I have been coming and living here. I really hope it can survive this crisis and be given a chance to get Thailand back on track. The " Big Rich Boys" have been given the message, that they are no longer untouchable and will be accountable for their corruption.

[Sexydar]

Lets not forget the interest, which will also be seized and will also be a large portion. Wonder how much that will be amount to, could also be a large sum.

Any idea when the criminal prosecutions will commence?

It might help to defuse the siuation further if the government were to spend a large portion of the money on development projects in Isan

[YouYouYou]

Well, the outcome was fairly predictable and keeps both sides reasonably happy? So the state gets 46 and Mr. T gets some 30. Yes, the courts decision was based on what they could prove; we all may know differently but the rule of law has to apply 'Proof'. Regardless of Mr. T's twitter rantings etc., he must be sat there now thinking to himself it ain't a bad result afterall ....a billion dollars in yer pocket, pretty good .

I do have one question though: Does Mr. T have to come back to Thailand to get his money or can he just use his ATM card in Dubai or wherever? I think the latter will apply

Well, here we have one man that has caused so much trouble for Thailand and indeed still a very very rich man who is also a convicted man who should be in prison and has other cases pending. Its has also been proved that 39 billion (+interest) was 'ill gotten' and yet I hear of no criminal charges being laid forth for this (have I missed something?). So well done Taksin the former policeman ...you're a billionaire dollar 'proved in a court of law' crook who is allowed to be so ...Result !!!

(The above is in no way a negative post of the courts decision as per your TV rules laid out in red; it is a post highlighting the lack of fairness in society and our lack or fear to bring people like Mr. T to fully face his consequences)

[joker1973]

Maybe some farangs want to take an interest in Thailand it's culture and politics instead of just coming for sex and beer.

Then let them learn to read Thai or pay for translations!

Could not agree with you more. Well said

[joker1973]

Why is it a problem that the verdict is not written in English? It has nothing to do with non Thais and therefore there is absolutely no reason to release the verdict in english other than to give some dim witted know it all farangs something to gossip and speculate about. Get over yourselves, your opinion has no weight whatsoever in Thailand's affairs.

There's a lot about Thaksin that affects foreigners. Plus, foreign views on Thaksin have more that a little impact on Thailand. Bangkok's two airports were shut down - which indirectly involved Thaksin, and certainly impacted on foreigners and Thais alike. Last April, the Asean meet was spoiled and Bangkok was troubled - both directly and indirectly influenced by Thaksin and also affecting foreigners. Much of what Thaksin has done and will do affects foreigners - both those who reside here, those who come here as tourists, those who do business here, and those who are contemplating coming to Thailand.

A major court case involving the Shinawats has a lot to do with foreigners. To dismiss foreign influence so comprehensively shows Joker's shallowness and how out-of-touch he is with the real world.

yeah I am so shallow to not be a know it all arm chair philsopher like yourself. It is foreigners that ruin Thailand not enrich it. Foreign business men out to take advantage of a weak economy with their stronger currency. paying ridiculously low wages to Thais while overcharging their fellow farangs. Thaksin had it right but was threatening the income of the corrupt government officials and greedy foreign investors. was he corrupt? Quite possibly but at least he did seem to want to help the Thai people whilst probably helping himself. That is better than helping yourself without helping teh people you were put in power to serve

[Xangsamhua]

And if you are going to quote Vaudine England (who is actually based in Bangkok, not Hong Kong), try posting her entire analysis.

Must have moved here recently if these sites are reasonably current:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/vaudineengland

http://www.journalisted.com/vaudine-england

Citing Mor Weng as a reliable source is a bit of a worry. OK for a bit of human interest (the Mor Wengs of the world are intriguing in an excruciating kind of way - I wonder if she's read Ruth Scurr's biography of Robespierre?), but naive in my view.

[rixalex]

was he corrupt? Quite possibly but ...<snipped feeble irrelevant excuses>

The answer to "was he corrupt?" is "yes". That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

And there is no "but". Nothing excuses what he did. Nothing exhonerates him from crime. What others may or may not have done is not relevant, unless we are discussing those people. We are not. We are discussing Thaksin.

He's a convicted criminal on the run who is guilty of massive and widespread corruption and abuse of power, but he did help little old ladies cross the street.

No "buts" please. Sick to death of them.

[ballpoint]

"So it's a good decision for the court, but obviously because of the military coup in 2006 they had to find some kind of justification."

He's treading on dangerous ground there.