Thaksin Asset Case: Bt46 Billion Will Be Seized Along With Interests

[RegularReader]

So if a member of the 'elite' votes FOR Thaksin, does that mean that they are still 'elite' or do they forfeit that title?

Forfeit indeed!

'Cause if you vote FOR Thaksin you're a peasant - by definition!

No respectable member of an 'elite' would be caught dead voting for Thaksin!

If they voted for Thaksin then they wouldn't be among the Elites, would they?!?

It's in the unwritten rules......look 'em up.

Here we go again!

You're just perpetuating the belief that there is on only, ONE set of "elites" in Thailand.

Err, ahh, are we back to being serious again?

Yes, the word 'elite' is grossly overused and terribly abused. Sort of like 'terrorist'.

I take it with a grain of salt.

Haha

Okay it's Sunday night - a holiday tomorrow - just finished the last Chang...

Maybe we could create a class of "elite terrorisstss", but thry probyl aredy exist...enjoy...

[CLOD]

So its against the "law" to criticise a court decision.

So then, how do voters get to change bad law to good law, when its against the "law" to do so?

I know how its achieved in a democracy, but how about thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So much liberal trotting out of this term "elite" really does get boring.

Conveniently vague and massively simplistic. saai.gif

And now apparently "elite" includes the middle class taxpayers....

We all know how the people who actually pay taxes tend to feel about "distribution of wealth" when it comes out of the class that pays the majority of taxes.

"Elite" is the most abused word on this forum in my opinion. Conspiracy theorists trot it out at the drop of the proverbial tin-hat. Then never can define the word to their own or anyone else's satisfaction. They talk about the "people vs. the elite" and then duck and run when someone points out that the leaders of the "people's" movement are all elite.

It's not over-used. I challenge you to find a better term. Thaksin himself in interviews calls the main powers who oppose democracy the "military-bureaucratic elites". I'll stick with that.

Furthermore it avoids naming individual people, which is frowned upon in the pretty draconian libel laws and less draconian but equally hard rules for this site that we all signed up to. So like it or not, you'll be seeing the word elite a lot more. It does not merely mean 'wealthy people'. As you rightly pointed out, the Shinawatra family would very much be part of the elite in it's usual definition. Again, if you don't like this double usage, then feel free to come up with a better term. (Personally I'm willing to settle for 'military-bureaucratic establishment' if the word elite rubs you the wrong way. The word doesn't really matter, what matters is that you know what I mean.)

Edited February 28, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ballpoint]

It's not over-used. I challenge you to find a better term. Thaksin himself in interviews calls the main powers who oppose democracy the "military-bureaucratic elites". I'll stick with that.

Furthermore it avoids naming individual people, which is frowned upon in the pretty draconian libel laws and less draconian but equally hard rules for this site that we all signed up to. So like it or not, you'll be seeing the word elite a lot more. It does not merely mean 'wealthy people'. As you rightly pointed out, the Shinawatra family would very much be part of the elite in it's usual definition. Again, if you don't like this double usage, then feel free to come up with a better term. (Personally I'm willing to settle for 'military-bureaucratic establishment' if the word elite rubs you the wrong way. The word doesn't really matter, what matters is that you know what I mean.)

Ah yes, the military establishment. General Chavalit. General Pinmalee. General Khattiya. General Chaiyasit. The four next biggest threats to Thailands peace after the crazed master.

[jdinasia]

So much liberal trotting out of this term "elite" really does get boring.

Conveniently vague and massively simplistic. saai.gif

And now apparently "elite" includes the middle class taxpayers....

We all know how the people who actually pay taxes tend to feel about "distribution of wealth" when it comes out of the class that pays the majority of taxes.

"Elite" is the most abused word on this forum in my opinion. Conspiracy theorists trot it out at the drop of the proverbial tin-hat. Then never can define the word to their own or anyone else's satisfaction. They talk about the "people vs. the elite" and then duck and run when someone points out that the leaders of the "people's" movement are all elite.

It's not over-used. I challenge you to find a better term. Thaksin himself in interviews calls the main powers who oppose democracy the "military-bureaucratic elites". I'll stick with that.

Furthermore it avoids naming individual people, which is frowned upon in the pretty draconian libel laws and less draconian but equally hard rules for this site that we all signed up to. So like it or not, you'll be seeing the word elite a lot more. It does not merely mean 'wealthy people'. As you rightly pointed out, the Shinawatra family would very much be part of the elite in it's usual definition. Again, if you don't like this double usage, then feel free to come up with a better term. (Personally I'm willing to settle for 'military-bureaucratic establishment' if the word elite rubs you the wrong way. The word doesn't really matter, what matters is that you know what I mean.)

"Thaksin himself ..." Thaksin -- let's see --- Police Lt Col Thaksin? Class 10 Thaksin? The one with all those connections? etc etc etc You are suggesting he's only "elite" because of money? That he wasn't part of the "Military Bureaucratic establishment"?

Thaksin and his cronies most certainly look like part of that group as you describe it, do we need to run through the list? If so it will have to wait until tmw as I need some significant sleep tonight!

Thaksin's partners in "democracy" certainly are an assorted lot aren't they? The local political machines in most of rural isaan and the north are still the same people that were there before Thaksin. I was going to say "he just bought them" but with several defections that would be inaccurate, he just rented them.

Sorry, you just don't get much more "elite" or connected than Thaksin S.

[CLOD]

Regards this business of Thaksin alledgedley criticising the court verdict......., is that what he did , or was he just saying that he didn't recognise the court.

Was he just asking the question , that as the court was the product of an illegal military junta coup , and a military junta appointed judiciary, in a vested interest environment, and a censored media, with an appointed PM up before the human rights watch on human rights abuse charges, then did it meet international standards?

Seems like a fair question to me, whoever happened to be in front of it.

[Cayenne]

Hahaha I loved it after countless pages on thaivisa we still don't have a clearer picture of whom the "elites" are. But don't worry, even Thaksin has difficulty defining it too ('cos otherwise he'll be one of the "elites") too.

The verdict was fair and just. Time to move on people.

[teacherpaul]

I seriously doubt it. Someone will get rich from this.

I really hope that the government finds a way to distribute these funds back to the people they were taken from. It would go a long way to help the cause of staying in power

[MyphuketLife]

I really hope that the government finds a way to distribute these funds back to the people they were taken from. It would go a long way to help the cause of staying in power

Are you suggesting that they use what was Thaksins money to vote buy?

[jayjayjayjay]

double post remove if you can Mod

Edited March 1, 2010 by jayjayjayjay

[jayjayjayjay]

Hahaha I loved it after countless pages on thaivisa we still don't have a clearer picture of whom the "elites" are. But don't worry, even Thaksin has difficulty defining it too ('cos otherwise he'll be one of the "elites") too.

The verdict was fair and just. Time to move on people.

I don't believe TV readers are this naive. Although the verdict is a fair one and let's say a Thai way of settling the issue. The jury will never get a chance to adjudicate on the elite. Who are they.

The elite, "amataya" are the senior military leaders, a cliche group of Military Generals, not one single person. These are the same people who have a process in place that allows them free range choice to act ex-constitutionally. Why, they are the same people who took democratic power from the people whom should have had the right to remove Mr.T's government from power. Only, and only when the people can get so frustrated with a government that they chose to remove them by elections will Thailand be ready for the next step in Democracy. In the mean time, the elite, amataya, senior group of military generals, both active and retired, will continue to be judge, jury, executioner, constitution ejectors and constitution re-writers. The same group who can pardon themselves......................... What more do you need to see!

These are the same people who increased the military budget by 67 billion baht within months of taking office. At least they had 750 million to spend on the GT200.

[animatic]

Without alluding to others, just in case you don't understand the law, the charges would have been the same under earlier constitutions, and on the basis of the legal analysis given in the judgment the outcome the same.

Regards

I can also agree with this.

He just plain broke SEVERAL laws in a big way and got nailed for it.

Not forgetting that Potjamin herself also as CONVICTED for peripheral crimes

relating specifically to this pattern of deception.

As to the amounts involved.

Well the likelihood he can now spirit this returned money off shore is very small.

46 bill is in essense showing some fairness, at the same time in anticipations of

many further legal issues still facing him. Asking him to come back and SIGN for the money,

would be an interesting element, and also acknowledge the other charges....

This court case showed damages far beyond what was non-returnable,

and there are clearly charges and viable avenues of attack to come related to those damages.

Yes I think he criticized the court judgment and is now lible for that too,

but he has so many charges pending why would he worry more about one more...?

This whole episode threw open the store box and methodology to nail pols in the future,

and is a big step forward and big warning in the political world that businessmen started

to invade 15 years or so back. More than a shot across the bows , but a real capture of

a pirate vessel and trial on shore with pirate captain absent..

Seeing these red shirt women crying for Thaksins money, really highlights in stark relief

the power of the propaganda campaign effectuated through Red Team Thaksin.

Edited March 1, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

So if a member of the 'elite' votes FOR Thaksin, does that mean that they are still 'elite' or do they forfeit that title?

Forfeit indeed!

'Cause if you vote FOR Thaksin you're a peasant - by definition!

No respectable member of an 'elite' would be caught dead voting for Thaksin!

If they voted for Thaksin then they wouldn't be among the Elites, would they?!?

It's in the unwritten rules......look 'em up.

Peasant or pissant?

The present working definition of eltie in Thailand is

'anyone doing better than you and your neighbors'.

Fits in perfectly with the 67 million class wars happening daily

as Thais meet Thais and wais meet wais.

[animatic]

So its against the "law" to criticise a court decision.

So then, how do voters get to change bad law to good law, when its against the "law" to do so?

I know how its achieved in a democracy, but how about thailand.

Wrong and a strawman argument.

The LAW allowing a type of decision can be discussed and changed,

but individual specific court decisions can't be.

Just the general end effect of a law on procedures.

A big difference.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Criticizing how the laws came about will do just fine. I agree, no need to be overly critical of the courts. (Though.. beware; soon there will not too many parties and institutions left that can still be criticized in Thailand, as the last bits of freedom-of-expression are flushed down the drain..)

[animatic]

Funny how we seem to have so few limits on discussions here....99% of TVF posters never run up against this issue.

A few ideologues seem to like bashing their heads against the wall for their philosophical quirks though.

Regardless in most countries certain things are never allowed.

Sedition and yelling fire in a crowded theater being two examples.

[Netfan]

Criticizing how the laws came about will do just fine. I agree, no need to be overly critical of the courts. (Though.. beware; soon there will not too many parties and institutions left that can still be criticized in Thailand, as the last bits of freedom-of-expression are flushed down the drain..)

It was not this government that instituted the law forbidding criticizing the courts. This government has not sued every newspaper and reporter in town who criticize them. This government hasn't bought a tv station and turned it into their own propaganda machine. They allow Truth Today to be published and broadcast. So what exactly are you talking about?

[brahmburgers]

Whether Thaksin wins or loses these tussles, his paid supporters are winners. For them, campaigning for Thaksin appears to be somewhat like a job. So as long as Thaksin has issues he's willing to pay others to make a fuss over (demonstration leaders, lawyers, assorted Red shirts), he will have at least some advocates in Thailand.

If Thaksin turned off the money spigot tomorrow, and was good on one of his promises ("I'm through with politics"), the Red Shirt movement would wither and dry.

[webfact]

Thai judiciary defends Thaksin ruling as protests loom

BANGKOK: -- (AFP) - Thailand's judiciary Wednesday denied that a court verdict seizing most of deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra's assets was politically biased, in a rare move aimed at quelling tensions over the ruling.

The Supreme Court on Friday found Thaksin guilty of abusing power for personal gain and seized 1.4 billion dollars of a total of 2.3 billion dollars in funds that were frozen after Thaksin was ousted in a coup in 2006.

"The judges' panel has freedom and was not controlled by any side," Sitisak Wanachagit, a spokesman for the office of Thailand's judiciary, told reporters.

He said the nine-judge Supreme Court panel was selected by 120 other judges and that state prosecutors and defense lawyers had the opportunity to reject the choices.

"The court does not take sides and is not prejudiced," Sitisak said. "If the panel was controlled (from outside), the verdicts would have been unanimous."

Thai authorities were now seeking a court order to enforce the ruling to force banks where the funds are held to hand over Thaksin's cash, he added.

Thaksin, who lives in exile to avoid a prior jail sentence for corruption, has vowed to fight the verdict and accused the judges of issuing a "very political" ruling which was a "joke for the world".

Thailand's courts have played a key role in several political crises, including turfing Thaksin's allies from office in December 2008 over alleged election fraud, but very rarely issue statements defending their decisions.

The anti-government "Red Shirt" movement, which is dominated by Thaksin's supporters, on Wednesday announced four new protests around the country ahead of a planned mass rally in Bangkok on March 12.

The Red Shirts also repeated their vow to avoid violence during the Bangkok rallies, which they say will attract up to 500,000 people. Police say they are expecting around 50,000.

"If you want to be a Red, you must embrace the fact that the king is the head of state and that only peaceful methods will be employed," senior Red Shirt leader Jaran Ditsatapichai told foreign correspondents.

Red Shirt riots in April derailed a key Asian summit and left two people dead. Their main rivals are the royalist Yellow Shirts, who led a street campaign in 2006 that helped force Thaksin from power.

He said the Red Shirts' aim now was to force the resignation of current Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

"Our tactic is to force Abhisit to choose between suppressing us and dissolving parliament," he said.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-03

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Maestro]

CNN video about the court decision:

--

Maestro

[lannarebirth]

So its against the "law" to criticise a court decision.

So then, how do voters get to change bad law to good law, when its against the "law" to do so?

I know how its achieved in a democracy, but how about thailand.

It's not that hard.

Edited April 4, 2010 by lannarebirth

[animatic]

CNN video about the court decision: ....

--

Maestro

Yes, thank you good video,

they seem to have gotten it right and hit the major points clearly.

Thaksin must be far from pleased seeing that one gone global...

[CLOD]

I don't see any Military junta appointed courts in CNN land.

I'm allright Jack.

[animatic]

Jack off, over and out.

[ThaksinKharma]

A local English-language paper is saying that the Director-General of the State Enterprise Policy Office (SEPO) has announced they have already transferred nine billion baht in funds from accounts held by former premier Thaksin Shinawatra to the Treasury. Eight billion baht came from accounts at Bangkok Bank and one billion came from accounts with Siam Commercial Bank. Other funds are still being processed.

[ThaksinKharma]

Shinawatra funds transfer not yet complete

By The Nation

Published on April 27, 2010

Some banks have yet to transfer money from the Shinawatra family's accounts to the Treasury as ordered by the Supreme Court, citing unclear legal interpretation.

State Enterprise Policy Office Director-General Supa Piyajitti yesterday said Bangkok Bank had transferred Bt8 billion and TMB Bank Bt1 billion, while the court's ruling requires the transfer of a combined Bt46 billion.

Siam Commercial Bank last week said it could not follow the order, because particular accounts remained under the Revenue Department's freeze order. The transfer will be legal only after the department drops the order, it said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30128057.html

[ThaksinKharma]

Siam Commercial Bank last week said it could not follow the order, because particular accounts remained under the Revenue Department's freeze order. The transfer will be legal only after the department drops the order, it said.

I read this morning that Siam Commercial Bank has now moved more than 36 Billion baht from accounts held by Thaksin, his daughter Pinthongta, his sister Yingluck, his former brother-in-law Bannapot Damapong, his son Panthongtae, and his former wife Potjaman to the Finance Ministry.

[plachon]

Siam Commercial Bank last week said it could not follow the order, because particular accounts remained under the Revenue Department's freeze order. The transfer will be legal only after the department drops the order, it said.

I read this morning that Siam Commercial Bank has now moved more than 36 Billion baht from accounts held by Thaksin, his daughter Pinthongta, his sister Yingluck, his former brother-in-law Bannapot Damapong, his son Panthongtae, and his former wife Potjaman to the Finance Ministry.

Hooray! The money can be used to clear up some of the mess left behind by Thaksin's Reds and perhaps a few powerful water cannons and bulldozers to erase their illegal camp.

[otherstuff1957]

Shinawatra funds transfer not yet complete

By The Nation

Published on April 27, 2010

State Enterprise Policy Office Director-General Supa Piyajitti yesterday said Bangkok Bank had transferred Bt8 billion

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30128057.html

So that's why Bangkok Bank keeps getting those grenade attacks!

[wintermute]

How is this not legalized theft?