Owning A House

[josefbl]

My wife Belgian , I Dutch , we built last year a house on leased land ,lease for 30 years.After long investigation and a lot of wrong answers we finaly have an answer but is this correct ?We can NOT own a house because we ar farang.So the owner of the land is now the owner of our house !!!The owner , Thai lady married to a Dutchman is now a rich lady owning our house.

Can we do something to get our house leagaly back !?

All this is perhaps strange and stupid , but yes we believed and did all this in confidence to the Dutchman whom we new from our " home " village in the Netherlands ! This makes it even more bad !

Can anyone give advice please ?

Thanks , Josef

[philliphn]

You are nieve!

You should have done your due dilligence. What you have just discovered every one knows on this web site.

[beano2274]

Sorry about your problem.

But why did you not consulate a lawyer, or even use pages like Thaivisa to get information before going ahead with your plans.

You have now lost a lot of money, and your Dutch friend and his wife are laughing all the way to the bank.

[elcent]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

[josefbl]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

[Naam]

You are nieve! You should have done your due dilligence. What you have just discovered every one knows on this web site.

your jumping to conclusions and pecking at the OP is naïve! nobody on this website is able to know anything because the OP did not submit details. if the building permit was in his, his wife's or both names HE/THEY OWN(S) the house albeit with the strings attached that the house is on leased land.

[Naam]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

extremely difficult or even impossible if the building permit was not issued in your name.

[Naam]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

that is of course pure nonsense. the house i built in Thailand will last much longer than the average solid built european house. reason: no clay but concrete roof tiles, no wooden but steel roof structure and last not least no huge temperature differences. anybody who does not understand these basics has not done his homework.

[Lite Beer]

Off topic post deleted.

[josefbl]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

extremely difficult or even impossible if the building permit was not issued in your name.

There is ( was ) NO building permit !!!! We ar living in a very small village .No need for building permit etc.The blue house book is on the name of the Thai lady-wife Dutchman ,also the lease.The house is build to high European standarts! Dubble glassing,doubble waals with isolation between teh 2 waals,roof tiles etc.etc.

[Lite Beer]

Moved to Real Estate.

[josefbl]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

extremely difficult or even impossible if the building permit was not issued in your name.

There is ( was ) NO building permit !!!! We ar living in a very small village .No need for building permit etc.The blue house book is on the name of the Thai lady-wife Dutchman ,also the lease.The house is build to high European standarts! Dubble glassing,doubble waals with isolation between teh 2 waals,roof tiles etc.etc.

Can anyone advice PLEASE !!!!

We live in Amhur Uttaradit,ver,very small village,NO one has ever build with a building permit.In this village ar now 4 newly buld ,by farang , houses.None have asked for a building permit.Question can I request now for this permit on our name ?????

Thanks and please no sarcasme as the situation is bad anuf ! Thank you for any good advice so far !

Josef

[Naam]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

extremely difficult or even impossible if the building permit was not issued in your name.

There is ( was ) NO building permit !!!! We ar living in a very small village .No need for building permit etc.The blue house book is on the name of the Thai lady-wife Dutchman ,also the lease.The house is build to high European standarts! Dubble glassing,doubble waals with isolation between teh 2 waals,roof tiles etc.etc.

but you must have a lease contract specifiying who is the lessor and who is the lessee, don't you?

[stgrhe]

You can own the house but not the land. If you have paid and a contract for a 30 year lease there should not be a problem. Anyway, a house after 30 years here in Thailand will be ruins.

That is perhaps good news.We ar in Thailand ,living in the house but how can we get the " owner title " or what ever it is named ?????

So you say we can own the house ? please explain !

Thank you.

extremely difficult or even impossible if the building permit was not issued in your name.

The ownership of the building can be shifted even if the building permit was issued in the developer's name but, as you say, it is complicated. 

This is what Samuiforsale say about the subject matter:

"Sale of an existing building requires the current owner (as registered at the land office in a previous sale agreement or building permit) and purchaser to sign a land office sale agreement (issued by and signed at the land office), followed by a public announcement/ posting of the sale for 30 days before transfer is allowed. The land office issues 4 copies of the 30-day announcement to be put up at specific locations. The transfer of a building will take at least 30 days, but usually 40-days. The 30 day period is to see if anyone wishes to contest the ownership over the house."

Read more here: http://www.samuiforsale.com/foreign_house_ownership.html

[Tonto21]

Sorry to hear of your predicament, I think this is all too common here. Why didn’t you sort this out at the front end of the build? OK, I know my saying this does not help now.

You can build and own a house here, just not the land, as all are keen to point out to you. But I fear you may have assed this. I own my house and lease the land, all done legal and documented, I’m not trying to rub salt into the wounds more to really point out you can own. Hopefully some one with more knowhow can give you some guidance now. Somehow I have a feeling you were stitched up before the last tile went on the roof.

I wish you luck

[Changian]

Josef - was the lease ever registered with the Land Office? You should have a lease contract covered in stamps and a title deed for the land with your name on the back saying you leased for 30 years.

If not, then you have a house that was built without any permission on land you haven't legally leased longterm.

[johnnyk]

Do you have proof that you paid for the construction? If you do take it to a lawyer and get started.

Blue book/yellow book do not prove ownership. Don't worry about them.

[josefbl]

Do you have proof that you paid for the construction? If you do take it to a lawyer and get started.

Blue book/yellow book do not prove ownership. Don't worry about them.

Yes we have ALL the bils,from the first pebble untill tha last flower in the garden!

How can this help ?

[josefbl]

Josef - was the lease ever registered with the Land Office? You should have a lease contract covered in stamps and a title deed for the land with your name on the back saying you leased for 30 years.

If not, then you have a house that was built without any permission on land you haven't legally leased longterm.

Yes indeed , the land - lease was registerd at the landoffice in Uttaradit.Stating the 30 years lease,price for the 30 years lease,my name,name of my wife and our former adress in The Netherlands.

The lease have 3 round and 1 square stamp on the front page.

[elcent]

Josef

Do you mean you have the contract for the lease, paying it and built a house and someone threw you out? It's still confusing

[josefbl]

Josef

Do you mean you have the contract for the lease, paying it and built a house and someone threw you out? It's still confusing

Yes it not only confusing but hard to understand how we could have been this blind and not seeing the con things !To good of believe ?? To keen to come to Thailand ????

But yes we have the contract,yes we are paying for it,yes we built a( large )house and luch garden but NO ,there is no intention ( yet ) to trow us out,but now you mentioning it,yes the potential danger is there.

To be complete my wife is 59 and I will be this year 65 ( and still stupid,me that is )

[garyh]

Why are you relying on TV to help you, get a good lawyer.

[elcent]

did you talk with them? I think you have nothing to fear. The land belongs to you for the 30 years, so does the house. You can do with it whatever you want.

to add on

do you plan to stay in that house or do you have someone to look after?

Edited March 3, 2010 by elcent

[elcent]

Why are you relying on TV to help you, get a good lawyer.

without a threat and attempt to throw them out, I think there is no lawyer needed. I'd have somebody to take care if this couple can't move in for whatever reason at the moment.

[josefbl]

did you talk with them? I think you have nothing to fear. The land belongs to you for the 30 years, so does the house. You can do with it whatever you want.

to add on

do you plan to stay in that house or do you have someone to look after?

Yes we have the plan to stay here in the house.

But .... "" you can do whaterever you want"" ???????

Can we , iff ,I say IFF we want sell the house ???? Whom would be interested in a house ( big ) house in a small village on leased land ????

Thanks to ALL reflectants for the advice and critic ( and sarcasm ) !

I think I know anuf now to go on !

Thanks again !

Josef

[garyh]

At least a lawyer can make sure rather than relying on maybe's, could cost a lot more if you are wrong Elcent.

[josefbl]

Why are you relying on TV to help you, get a good lawyer.

without a threat and attempt to throw them out, I think there is no lawyer needed. I'd have somebody to take care if this couple can't move in for whatever reason at the moment.

LATEST DEVELOMENT !!!!!

The owner ( Thai wife of Dutchman ) has given and registerd the blue book on the daughters name !!!

This happenend yesterday!Is this legal !!! or.................

[Gary A]

The very first thing you have to find out is if you have a legal land office registered lease. If so, you have the right to live in the house until the lease expires. If the lease is bogus, you could indeed have serious problems.

[josefbl]

The very first thing you have to find out is if you have a legal land office registered lease. If so, you have the right to live in the house until the lease expires. If the lease is bogus, you could indeed have serious problems.

The land lease is legal and registerd at the landoffice in Uttaradit.

But........ yesterday the " landlord " ,Thai lady of Dutchman ,changed the " BLUE BOOK " from her name to her daughters name .Does this means that we have to have a new lease contract with the new owner or.....

Could it be that the house is registerd on the name of the daughter and that the land is still on the name of the mother ? Wher do we come in the picture ?

Are we still " the leasers " or ????

[ukrules]

If the lease is genuine then it would seem to me all you need to return to them is the land that you leased once the 30 years are finished. If it is bogus for whatever reason then the same reasoning stands. I have read stories backed up with photographs of new houses being demolished because some greedy local was trying to steal a house. The police came and were powerless to stop it, you own every part of the house, make sure you keep those receipts safe.

If they try any funny business tell them that in no uncertain terms that if they fail to purchase the house off you at the end of the 30 years you will take it with you when you leave the land and all they will get back will be the empty land that you leased from them.

If they have registered the ownership in the daughters name it does look like they are preparing for ownership of this house before the thirty years is up, take any steps required to make sure they don't borrow money against the value of this house as you own it and not them, as someone else said you don't own the land but you do own the house, every part of it.

I would scrutinise the lease documents carefully, I'm not sure how these leases work in Thailand but I have had long term (25 year) commercial leases in Europe before, are they fully paid up for the full thirty years from the beginning or is it more like a western lease where you pay monthly or quarterly with five yearly rent reviews ? If it's the latter you could be in for a surprise at the first review if they try to con you.

As it's a fellow Dutchman who arranged this for you in the first place - what does he have to say about all of this ?