Bank Transfers

[chiang mai]

The issue was USA bank transfers to Thailand. Not Singapore banks.

I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin.

[Naam]

The issue was USA bank transfers to Thailand. Not Singapore banks.

some others who chipped in claimed that it is always advisable not to transfer THB and that is incorrect information and wrong advice. for a lot of TV-members any advice, which might save some money, is valuable and it does not matter at all whether this advice applies to the opening post or not.

[Jingthing]

The issue was USA bank transfers to Thailand. Not Singapore banks.

I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin.

I think not. Read the OP. He is clearly using US banks. US banks will totally rip you off if you are silly enough to ask them to convert to baht in the US. Not exactly a rip off though as there is not much demand for baht in the US.

[chiang mai]

The issue was USA bank transfers to Thailand. Not Singapore banks.

I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin.

I think not. Read the OP. He is clearly using US banks. US banks will totally rip you off if you are silly enough to ask them to convert to baht in the US. Not exactly a rip off though as there is not much demand for baht in the US.

I give up, honestly I do!

[Naam]

The issue was USA bank transfers to Thailand. Not Singapore banks.

I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin.

I think not. Read the OP. He is clearly using US banks. US banks will totally rip you off if you are silly enough to ask them to convert to baht in the US. Not exactly a rip off though as there is not much demand for baht in the US.

I give up, honestly I do!

i think Jingthing had a bad hair ahmm... baht bus day because one of the racist Mafiosi asked for a farang fare and not a thai fare

[chiang mai]

I have days like that myself, more frequently of late I notice, perhaps it's the weather, no hard feelings though.

[chiang mai]

Double post

Edited March 4, 2010 by chiang mai

[JimGant]

"I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that large numbers of folks who visit the financial forums on TV can't read..."

Yeah, me too. Take the following:

"...case in point is right now where the range of USD/THB TT rates from eight Thai banks (onshore) is 32.50 to 32.60 yet XE (offshore) shows 32.69 ..."

Well, here's what you see on the XE site:

"Are your currency rates "buy" or "sell" rates?

Answer: The rates in our free information services are neither "buy" nor "sell" rates. Instead, they are mid-market rates derived from the mid-point between the "buy" and "sell" rates from global currency markets. Our free information services always list the mid-market rate because it indicates the value of a currency that is not weighted towards buying or selling."

So, your "32.69" mid-market has no relevance, except that, by definition, it will *always* be higher than the "buy" rate for baht. And even if XE gave a 'buy' rate, it would be a generality. Exactly what rate you'd get would depend on which US bank you were buying baht from. Unfortunately, there are no nice charts that give USD/THB rates for US banks. The baht is just too thinly traded to warrant such. (Incidentally, and just as an example, BB for 4 March, the computed mid-point for US Notes is 32.63; but the "buy" rate is 32.29. Some difference.)

"Just out of curiosity, did you read posts number 17, 19 and 20?"

Yep. Per the previous paragraph, they have no relevance in making a case for offshore exchange of MAJOR currencies. Just out of curiosity, did you read post 12?

"I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin."

No, Jingthing's correct. The OP was interested in USD/THB conversions. Interjecting Hong Kong and Singapore to widen the offshore discussion was strictly thread hijacking. Not surprisingly, the OP has not re-appeared.

"for the record: -not everybody uses a bank located in the Greatest Nation on Earth™."

Great point, Naam. The OP, however, does use such a bank.

"I give up, honestly I do!"

Promises, promises.

[rangers]

ONLY TRANSFER $U.S, DOLLARS you will lose money if you wire Baht. It is an on shore off shore thing. I lost several hundred $$$ on a transfer last year I have learned my lesson the hard way. My U.S. banker thought that he was giving good advise to first change to baht. DON"T do it.

Good luck

Can only agree. I transfered Baht from the UK and my bank game me a really crap rate last year. Never make that mistake again.

[Naam]

ONLY TRANSFER $U.S, DOLLARS you will lose money if you wire Baht. It is an on shore off shore thing. I lost several hundred $$$ on a transfer last year I have learned my lesson the hard way. My U.S. banker thought that he was giving good advise to first change to baht. DON"T do it. Good luck

Can only agree. I transfered Baht from the UK and my bank game me a really crap rate last year. Never make that mistake again.

last year was 2009, now it is 2010! did you check the rate with your Thai bank and compared it with the rate your UK bank offered? if yes, why did you transfer Baht? if no, serves you right.

[chiang mai]

"I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that large numbers of folks who visit the financial forums on TV can't read..."

Yeah, me too. Take the following:

"...case in point is right now where the range of USD/THB TT rates from eight Thai banks (onshore) is 32.50 to 32.60 yet XE (offshore) shows 32.69 ..."

Well, here's what you see on the XE site:

"Are your currency rates "buy" or "sell" rates?

Answer: The rates in our free information services are neither "buy" nor "sell" rates. Instead, they are mid-market rates derived from the mid-point between the "buy" and "sell" rates from global currency markets. Our free information services always list the mid-market rate because it indicates the value of a currency that is not weighted towards buying or selling."

So, your "32.69" mid-market has no relevance, except that, by definition, it will *always* be higher than the "buy" rate for baht. And even if XE gave a 'buy' rate, it would be a generality. Exactly what rate you'd get would depend on which US bank you were buying baht from. Unfortunately, there are no nice charts that give USD/THB rates for US banks. The baht is just too thinly traded to warrant such. (Incidentally, and just as an example, BB for 4 March, the computed mid-point for US Notes is 32.63; but the "buy" rate is 32.29. Some difference.)

"Just out of curiosity, did you read posts number 17, 19 and 20?"

Yep. Per the previous paragraph, they have no relevance in making a case for offshore exchange of MAJOR currencies. Just out of curiosity, did you read post 12?

"I think the issue was/is onshore versus offshore, regardless of the point of origin."

No, Jingthing's correct. The OP was interested in USD/THB conversions. Interjecting Hong Kong and Singapore to widen the offshore discussion was strictly thread hijacking. Not surprisingly, the OP has not re-appeared.

"for the record: -not everybody uses a bank located in the Greatest Nation on Earth™."

Great point, Naam. The OP, however, does use such a bank.

"I give up, honestly I do!"

Promises, promises.

And you are absolutely correct on the XE point so thank you for pointing that out, it will be a useful point for us all to remember.

But on your point re Hong Kong and Singapore banks: the point I was trying to get across here is that many banks operate globally, take HSBC for example. If I ask HSBC UK to make a currency exchange for me in the UK I will get raped on the exchange rate - but if I use an account facility to transfer my funds from HSBC to say Hong Kong, Singapore or even Bangkok and make the exchange in one of those locations, the exchange rate becomes much more acceptable, indeed it's often quite an attractive one. If I transfer my Sterling from HSBC UK to HSBC HK I have the option to either exchange offshore in Hong Kong or to further transfer Sterling to HSBC Bangkok and exchange onshore, that decision is determined by any variance in the onshore offshore exchange rates at the time - I presume that many American banks have the same facilities so it's for those reasons that I see this as an onshore/offshore debate and that the inclusions of HK and Singapore into the debate was in no way a hijack but instead highly relevant.

And now finally I'll keep my promise, I'll give up!

[Jingthing]

The side issues just were complications to the OP's question. All he needed was one word -- DOLLARS!

[Naam]

it does not make sense to assist the know-it-alls with advice which is relevant to the topic in a wider sense. they rather split hair or whine and whinge about a 5-Baht transportation surcharge or a 10-Baht bowl of rice

[Jingthing]

it does not make sense to assist the know-it-alls with advice which is relevant to the topic in a wider sense. they rather split hair or whine and whinge about a 5-Baht transportation surcharge or a 10-Baht bowl of rice

You are obsessed about such trivialities, not me. For the OP to add arcane details completely irrelevant to his question about US banks, raised doubts about the absolute and clear advice he needed. From the US, it is a complete no brainer --- send DOLLARS to Thailand, never baht.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

it does not make sense to assist the know-it-alls with advice which is relevant to the topic in a wider sense. they rather split hair or whine and whinge about a 5-Baht transportation surcharge or a 10-Baht bowl of rice

You are obsessed about such trivialities, not me. For the OP to add arcane details completely irrelevant to his question about US banks, raised doubts about the absolute and clear advice he needed. From the US, it is a complete no brainer --- send DOLLARS to Thailand, never baht.

You did not address me directly Jingthing but nevertheless, the process of moving and exchanging foreign currency these days is not as clear cut and straightforward as simply moving funds from point A to point B, those differences are not trivialities.

[Pib]

The KISS principle applies here. Transfer in dollars.

[Jingthing]

The KISS principle applies here. Transfer in dollars.

Eh-menn ...

[JimGant]

the process of moving and exchanging foreign currency these days is not as clear cut and straightforward as simply moving funds from point A to point B, those differences are not trivialities.

Good point. The OP has abandoned -- or has thrown his hands up -- so let's open this up.

CM, you say you use HK as a conduit of sorts to convert Sterling to Baht. And this is feeless, at least in HK. So, in HK you convert your Sterling to HKDs -- then, HKDs to Baht? Is this latter part in HK,or in Thailand? And where in Thailand does the money end up -- and what, if any, fees apply?

I guess, everything else being equal, you'd come out ahead if you could avoid fees. But, I just can't imagine you're getting a better GBP/THB exchange rate by using the HKD as an intermediary.... Are the arbitrageurs asleep?

Anyway, just curious. Oh if you could give us some numbers with these transactions, it might help clarify.

And, for what it's worth, your procedure coincides with the rest of us in advocating "don't buy baht in the motherland." Unfortunately, the "offshore/onshore" thingy gets convoluted when you add additional shorelines into the equation.

[Naam]

the process of moving and exchanging foreign currency these days is not as clear cut and straightforward as simply moving funds from point A to point B, those differences are not trivialities.

Good point. The OP has abandoned -- or has thrown his hands up -- so let's open this up.

CM, you say you use HK as a conduit of sorts to convert Sterling to Baht. And this is feeless, at least in HK. So, in HK you convert your Sterling to HKDs -- then, HKDs to Baht? Is this latter part in HK,or in Thailand? And where in Thailand does the money end up -- and what, if any, fees apply?

I guess, everything else being equal, you'd come out ahead if you could avoid fees. But, I just can't imagine you're getting a better GBP/THB exchange rate by using the HKD as an intermediary.... Are the arbitrageurs asleep?

Anyway, just curious. Oh if you could give us some numbers with these transactions, it might help clarify.

And, for what it's worth, your procedure coincides with the rest of us in advocating "don't buy baht in the motherland." Unfortunately, the "offshore/onshore" thingy gets convoluted when you add additional shorelines into the equation.

no Jim, CM didn't say that and i doubt that this is how he (sometimes) does it because even without fees he would still have to bear the difference between bid and ask. i assume he uses the same simple procedure as i do, namely check thai bank bid, compare with offshore bank ask (both foreign currency/THB) and then decide whether to transfer foreign currency or THB. in my case, based on the experience going back even to "two-tier" times, the "success rate" is ~50%. worthwhile to mention is that i transferred and still transfer different currencies (USD, EUR and AUD).

[chiang mai]

the process of moving and exchanging foreign currency these days is not as clear cut and straightforward as simply moving funds from point A to point B, those differences are not trivialities.

Good point. The OP has abandoned -- or has thrown his hands up -- so let's open this up.

CM, you say you use HK as a conduit of sorts to convert Sterling to Baht. And this is feeless, at least in HK. So, in HK you convert your Sterling to HKDs -- then, HKDs to Baht? Is this latter part in HK,or in Thailand? And where in Thailand does the money end up -- and what, if any, fees apply?

I guess, everything else being equal, you'd come out ahead if you could avoid fees. But, I just can't imagine you're getting a better GBP/THB exchange rate by using the HKD as an intermediary.... Are the arbitrageurs asleep?

Anyway, just curious. Oh if you could give us some numbers with these transactions, it might help clarify.

And, for what it's worth, your procedure coincides with the rest of us in advocating "don't buy baht in the motherland." Unfortunately, the "offshore/onshore" thingy gets convoluted when you add additional shorelines into the equation.

The process is broadly as Naam has described, it's important to compare the bid and ask prices in both locations, but the bigger part of the savings is not having to pay any transfer fees or commission charges and this is simply a feature of the type of account I hold with HSBC. At the heart of the process is a multi currency account in Hong Kong that allows me to convert between thirteen foreign currencies and I can do this on-line and in real time and the spreads are minimal - HSBC feeder accounts in other countries include GBP, USD and THB accounts in Thailand and GBP accounts in London. You asked for some numbers: last week I contemplated an exchange of USD/SGD and the numbers are still written here on my pad HSBC buy USD/SGD 1.3994 vs an XE midpoint of 1.4049, HSBC buy GBP/SGD 0.4721 vs XE midpoint of 0.4704.

[gosompoi]

Only Dollars, you will loose money due to offshore exhange rate being more costly from Dollar to Baht.

[Naam]

Only Dollars, you will loose money due to offshore exhange rate being more costly from Dollar to Baht.

and once you lo[o]se money are you a looser or a loser?

[chiang mai]

The term offshore means anywhere that is not in Thailand. So yes, make an exchange in the US or the UK for example and the rates will not be good - but make that exchange in other parts of Asia and the rate will almost certainly be very attractive, both locations are considered to be offshore.

[tombkk]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that large numbers of folks who visit the financial forums on TV can't read, can't comprehend or simply want to post for the sake of posting. All of that's fine when one is bored, drunk, high or feeling neglected but frankly, it does nothing to help those who are looking for a solution to a problem. Mini rant over, thanks for listening.

i came to that conclusion a couple of years ago

This is ThaiVisa.com. You need expert advice, ask the experts instead. 'Nuff said.

[tombkk]

No, this has been the requirement for several years, at least 8. Maybe longer.

Can you please post a link confirming that fact because I don't share you understanding on this point and I have bought and sold condo's a couple of times over that period.

EDIT: in case there's confusion on this point, I support the idea that funds for property purchases must be imported from overseas, in foreign currency.

Only 3 years ago I had to bring in foreign currency to purchase a condo.

If you are a foreigner, this is still being required. Provided that you want to buy the condo in your name, that is. You will only be allowed to purchase that condo of less than 51% of the owners are foreigners, so make sure that this is part of the purchasing contract (I did). If by the time all contracts are signed, more than 51% of the condos have already been legally purchased by foreigners and yours can't be registered in your name, make sure that the purchase contract become invalid and you get your deposit back.

[tombkk]

my suggestion, better transfer it in USD.When sending the money from US mention in the payment order who shoulder the bank charges which is around 20-40 USD depending on the amount/bank. You can mention bank charges to be absorb by beneficiary or sender. Like if you choose to send 10,000 USD you can add USD 40 so your account in Thailand will receive USD 10,000.

Also note that before bank credit this amount in you Bangkok Bank account, they will ask you what is the money for especially if the amount is USD 10k or more.

BM

According to BOT (Bank of Thailand) regulations, they will ask you if the transfer in is US$ 20K or more. Not 10k.

[tombkk]

The term offshore means anywhere that is not in Thailand. So yes, make an exchange in the US or the UK for example and the rates will not be good - but make that exchange in other parts of Asia and the rate will almost certainly be very attractive, both locations are considered to be offshore.

You are right about the term "offshore", but I'd be surprised if you get more Baht in your thai bank account (which you need to spend in Thailand) if you route the funds via an offshore THB account.

[Naam]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that large numbers of folks who visit the financial forums on TV can't read, can't comprehend or simply want to post for the sake of posting. All of that's fine when one is bored, drunk, high or feeling neglected but frankly, it does nothing to help those who are looking for a solution to a problem. Mini rant over, thanks for listening.

i came to that conclusion a couple of years ago

This is ThaiVisa.com. You need expert advice, ask the experts instead. 'Nuff said.

what makes you think that Chiang Mai or my [not so] humble self need expert advice on currency or currency transfer matters?

[Naam]

The term offshore means anywhere that is not in Thailand. So yes, make an exchange in the US or the UK for example and the rates will not be good - but make that exchange in other parts of Asia and the rate will almost certainly be very attractive, both locations are considered to be offshore.

You are right about the term "offshore", but I'd be surprised if you get more Baht in your thai bank account (which you need to spend in Thailand) if you route the funds via an offshore THB account.

you'd be less surprised if you had taken the time to read all postings.

[tombkk]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that large numbers of folks who visit the financial forums on TV can't read, can't comprehend or simply want to post for the sake of posting. All of that's fine when one is bored, drunk, high or feeling neglected but frankly, it does nothing to help those who are looking for a solution to a problem. Mini rant over, thanks for listening.

i came to that conclusion a couple of years ago

This is ThaiVisa.com. You need expert advice, ask the experts instead. 'Nuff said.

what makes you think that Chiang Mai or my [not so] humble self need expert advice on currency or currency transfer matters?

Good point. But then, I didn't mean "you" in the sense of you or CM personally, but in the generic "you" in the sense of "someone".

But it's nice chatting here!