Upmarket Restaurants

[Thailaw]

Bangkok's restaurants just don't compete with those in Thailand's regional tourist centres on any level. I agree about the comparison to London, though not for Pattaya but Bangkok: Overpriced and mostly poor quality everywhere.

Well, Simon, I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I expect that you really haven't experienced the truly wonderful restaurants that Bangkok has to offer. I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel, you should (these are just a few, there are many more). And, if you know of any restaurants in Pattaya that can equal their quality of food, ambience and service (and the lack of "bill shock"), I and other TV forum readers would like to know of them. And, please, any such list should not include (for credibility sake) Bruno's, Pascals or Sugar Shack. Cheers,

[Digger]

Bangkok's restaurants just don't compete with those in Thailand's regional tourist centres on any level. I agree about the comparison to London, though not for Pattaya but Bangkok: Overpriced and mostly poor quality everywhere.

Well, Simon, I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I expect that you really haven't experienced the truly wonderful restaurants that Bangkok has to offer. I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel, you should (these are just a few, there are many more). And, if you know of any restaurants in Pattaya that can equal their quality of food, ambience and service (and the lack of "bill shock"), I and other TV forum readers would like to know of them. And, please, any such list should not include (for credibility sake) Bruno's, Pascals or Sugar Shack. Cheers,

Why do you make reference to "shock bill" - when pretty much all the restaurants you mention apply the same approach to pricing i.e. ++ ? Not diagreeing with your statement just strange that you focus on the shock value more than anything else.

Personally having eaten at many of the places you mention - I would not consider them comparable - but for different reasons. If I am looking for a riverside restaurant, I would not be going to Bruno's or Pascal for starters and conversley if I am in Pattaya I would not trudge all the way to BKK for dinner.

[Thailaw]

Why do you make reference to "shock bill" - when pretty much all the restaurants you mention apply the same approach to pricing i.e. ++ ? Not diagreeing with your statement just strange that you focus on the shock value more than anything else.

Personally having eaten at many of the places you mention - I would not consider them comparable - but for different reasons. If I am looking for a riverside restaurant, I would not be going to Bruno's or Pascal for starters and conversley if I am in Pattaya I would not trudge all the way to BKK for dinner.

BOY! I think you need to read my last post and my earlier post together (and with a bit more thought) to fully understand what I was/am saying. I agree that you cannot (or probably should not) compare very different types of restaurants (for example, restaurants that focus on Thai food versus restaurants that focus on European food or restaurants that have inside air conditioned eating versus al fresco seating (although the latter is very common here in Thailand, even in trendy, upmarket restaurants)), but the OP asked about "upmarket restaurants" and did not specify restaurant type, nor did I. I did not suggest that if you are in Pattaya, you should travel to Bangkok soley to dine in an upmarket restaurant -- really! I suggested that it you are in Pattaya and you want to dine out and have an enjoyble evening (assuming that you like Thai food) that you focus on the middle market Thai restaurants (which are exceptionally good here, especially those that focus on seafood) and avoid the "upmarket" restaurants (especialy those focusing on European food) that Pattaya has to offer. In the later case, I believe that you will be disappointed for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is price. If you want to eat upmarket, wait until you are in Bangkok or plan a trip to Bangkok that might include shopping, entertainment and dinner at an upmarket restaurant. That would be in my view a better opportunity for an overall enjoyable dining experience.

I was not suggesting in any way that the 3 restaurants I mentioned in Bangkok are "comparable". They are simply examples of 3 very good, very enjoyable "upmarket" restaurants that are "worth" the prices they charge (not in any way "cheap"). But, on any given evening, I might consider any of the three as a possible dining option (weather permitting (we were rained out of Vertigo and Sirocco for 3 straight evenings in Septmber)) and have a wonderful evening, with no regret. The 3 Pattaya restaurants I mentioned are only comparable (to each other; they certainly are not comparable to the 3 Bangkok restaurants) in that they are also "upmarket" restaurants that get low marks from me and have generally gotten low marks from other readers on this forum. And just because the restaurant is "upmarket" and I am expecting to pay more does not mean that price is no longer a factor or a consideration. I expect to get value for money in any transaction, and while I am a bit more lenient in purchases where ambience and service is a large part of the product (I do expect descent service in any restaurant I go, and I usually get it), I don't like feeling "gouged" and if I do, I won't go back (and I appreciate being warned of price shock by someone that has eaten there before (my view is that this is a generally serious problem in Pattaya's upmarket restaurants, so I mentioned it). If price is not a part of your dining decision, you are of course free to ignore my comments (or for any other reason you might choose). I am not sure how restaurant owners/managers determine the prices they charge (I was recently charged B140 for a large Beer Chang in one upmarket Bangkok and B300 in another -- both ++?) and I doubt that you are either. But I do know that prices in comparable restaurants (from top to bottom) differ greatly, and I think it is foolish to assume otherwise.

[Jingthing]

I agree, Pattaya is not a good place for really top end restaurants. However, that is hardly a problem. How many of us actually eat in such places all that often?

[Thailaw]

I agree, Pattaya is not a good place for really top end restaurants. However, that is hardly a problem. How many of us actually eat in such places all that often?

I agree completely. This is a problem of the third order, if that. And the abundance of very good mid level restaurants makes the problem hardly noticeable. It is only for the special occasion -- birthdays, Christmas, or the 4th of July -- that one wishes for a really special place to celebrate the event!

[Phatcharanan]

Well, Simon, I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I expect that you really haven't experienced the truly wonderful restaurants that Bangkok has to offer. I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel,

Vertigo at the Banyan Tree hotel.

Great views I admit but a top notch restaurant?

[Ulysses G.]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Cherry's opposite Xcyte, great value good food.

Cherry's is great, but not really "up market".

[somtampet]

For Italian, I would recommend Gian's in the Chateau Dale complex (next to Brunos) on Thapraya Road. For high-end Italian, it's probably the best in town IMO. Interesting and eclectic decor (Sistine Chapel on the ceiling) and good service. The pastas are great and the scallops appetizer is too. With wine, expect to spend about B1000 per person for a couple courses per person.

Do they charge for the dust or is that free

[Thailaw]

... I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel,

Vertigo at the Banyan Tree hotel.

Great views I admit but a top notch restaurant?

Obviously, I mentioned it because I like it alot. But I googled its reviews for a broader evaluation and the Trip Advisor ranks it #8 out of 662 restaurants in Bangkok (not sure what the first 7 are). Most reviews rate the atmosphere and views as spectacular beyond belief and the food as "nothing special". Prices paid for dinner mentioned can be misleading because of the wide range and high price for wine at any restaurant (or grocery store) in Thailand (I have never paid E300 for dinner for 2 there, but I think that $200 for 2 is the minimum). One reviewer said the following, which I think sums up the restaurant pretty well:

" “The best money can buy if your ready to spend it”Swedish_man 1 contribution Stockholm/Sweden22 Feb 2010 I suprised my girlfriend with a dinner at Vertigo and we both loved it! It feels like a ones in a lifetime restaurant with a breathtaking magical view. It was both romantic, cool and beautiful. The restaurant isn't cheap, I think we payed about 300 € for a three course dinner with wine. But it was worth every cent! ....."

I would agree, but to each his own. If the restaurant's food is not to your liking or you deem it to be too expensive, it is still the best place in Bangkok (along with Sirocco) for a drink before dinner, and it beats anything (by far) that I have found in Pattaya (which was the original reason I mentioned it).

[RabC]

... I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel,

Vertigo at the Banyan Tree hotel.

Great views I admit but a top notch restaurant?

Obviously, I mentioned it because I like it alot. But I googled its reviews for a broader evaluation and the Trip Advisor ranks it #8 out of 662 restaurants in Bangkok (not sure what the first 7 are). Most reviews rate the atmosphere and views as spectacular beyond belief and the food as "nothing special". Prices paid for dinner mentioned can be misleading because of the wide range and high price for wine at any restaurant (or grocery store) in Thailand (I have never paid E300 for dinner for 2 there, but I think that $200 for 2 is the minimum). One reviewer said the following, which I think sums up the restaurant pretty well:

" "The best money can buy if your ready to spend it"Swedish_man 1 contribution Stockholm/Sweden22 Feb 2010 I suprised my girlfriend with a dinner at Vertigo and we both loved it! It feels like a ones in a lifetime restaurant with a breathtaking magical view. It was both romantic, cool and beautiful. The restaurant isn't cheap, I think we payed about 300 € for a three course dinner with wine. But it was worth every cent! ....."

I would agree, but to each his own. If the restaurant's food is not to your liking or you deem it to be too expensive, it is still the best place in Bangkok (along with Sirocco) for a drink before dinner, and it beats anything (by far) that I have found in Pattaya (which was the original reason I mentioned it).

All this from someone that cant find a decent upmarket resteraunt in London. I am affraid after a statement like that I would take your advice with a pinch of Salt.

Tried Cafe Des Amis?

[Ronaweigh]

Cabbages and condoms at the bottom of soi 4 Pratmakap

[123rljohnson]

Mum Aroi in Naklua. The restaurant is located on the beach.

[syd barrett]

How about 'Linda's'?

I've not been recently but she used to serve agreeable grub.

Edited March 11, 2010 by syd barrett

[Thailaw]

Mum Aroi in Naklua. The restaurant is located on the beach.

I agree that Mum Aroi is an excellent restaurant, and exactly the kind of mid-range Thai seafood restaurant that Pattaya excels at. And the packed parking lot every Saturday night suggests that I am not the only one that thinks so.

[Siam Simon]

Bangkok's restaurants just don't compete with those in Thailand's regional tourist centres on any level. I agree about the comparison to London, though not for Pattaya but Bangkok: Overpriced and mostly poor quality everywhere.

Well, Simon, I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I expect that you really haven't experienced the truly wonderful restaurants that Bangkok has to offer. I have no knowledge of the better Phuket or Chiang Mai restaurants, but Pattaya has noting to offer that comes even remotely close to the best restaurants in Bangkok. If you haven't tried Vertigo, C'est Bon and the River Patio at the Oriental Hotel, you should (these are just a few, there are many more). And, if you know of any restaurants in Pattaya that can equal their quality of food, ambience and service (and the lack of "bill shock"), I and other TV forum readers would like to know of them. And, please, any such list should not include (for credibility sake) Bruno's, Pascals or Sugar Shack. Cheers,

My apologies. I misunderstood your angle and thought that the discussion was about food. It's become very clear that you're trying to discuss ambience, location, etcetera. I agree with you: Bangkok has a big advantage over most other regional locations on this angle. Food quality? Sorry, we'll continue to agree to disagree: There is a large wearing of emperor's new clothes about food quality in Bangkok's high-end restaurants.

[aussiechick]

OK - Two more restaurants this week:

Sea Zone on WS - this is my favourite place for seafood. Have been going there for about 3 years and take friends, clients etc there. I actually went on Tuesday night with 2 Aussie visitors - 1 has been to Sea Zone many times:

Great location sitting out over the bay, it has the longest deck so uninterrupted view.

Food: We shared shrimp cakes which are fresh and tasty

The two guys had the LARGE seafood platter - amongst it all there is fish, crabs, prawns, mussels, and more. Baht 1100 (In Oz you would get maybe 2 serves of fish and chips for this price)

I had rock lobsters with garlic butter - split and plenty of garlic butter Baht 500

Finish the meal with Irish Coffee, made at the table with bell ringing and foot stomps, and I think I have mentioned before, this is the best Irish Coffee anywhere! Baht 200

I have never had a meat dish here so I cannot comment at all. I have had dessert on the odd occassion here, the crepes suzettes and they have been nice but usually just the seafood and an Irish Coffee is enough.

Little Italy - this place has been here for about 30 years - across the road from Royal Garden, single shop house, 2 floors. The original owner has passed away and the new owner is doing a fine job. I have never been here before and know I have walked past it millions of time without really taking notice.

3 of us for dinner - my friend, a Thai guy and me.

Entree: artichoke with herbs and olive oil - this I really liked - the Thai guy tried and was not impressed (if he wasn't so polite he would have spat it out)

prawn cocktail - looked good with lots of dressing

Main course: Thai - pork chop with herbs, chips and yes tomato sauce

friend: spaghetti carbonara

me: lasagne

Now I will say that the lasagne was tasty and it was a large serve - not enough meat for my liking.

My friend liked his carbonara and said it was the best he had had here in Pattaya.

The Thai ate his and said it was good.

Dessert: Thai - choclate souffle (he is a chocolate nut) it came with passionfruit pulp, chocolate roll biscuit and icecream

me: - creme catalina (brulee?) this was perfect - the crisp sugar topping and the creamy custard - delicious. The best I have had in Thailand.

friend: double expresso (x 4)

2 bottles of Pinot Grigio and the bill total: Baht 4000

Nice setting, good service and not expensive - quite a few Italians eating there so I am sure that is a good sign.

Lets see how many more restaurants I can do!!

[Javabear]

If you're not worried about the bill Manhattans is always one of my top choices. I'm also a big fan of the News Cafe.

[Thailaw]

My apologies. I misunderstood your angle and thought that the discussion was about food. It's become very clear that you're trying to discuss ambience, location, etcetera. I agree with you: Bangkok has a big advantage over most other regional locations on this angle. Food quality? Sorry, we'll continue to agree to disagree: There is a large wearing of emperor's new clothes about food quality in Bangkok's high-end restaurants.

My "angle" is a good/enjoyable experience (aka "fun"). When dining out at an upmarket restaurant, for me, ambience plays a much bigger role than at an every day kind of place. I had a great lunch today at a beside the road restaurant in Pattaya, where the food was really excellent and the ambience was "0" (maybe negative, beacuse it was hot), but for B100 I was very satisfied. I can get a real thrill from various combinations of food, ambience and service. All must be at least very good, but I don't go to Vertigo for the food, I go thjere for the spectacular views and wonderful ambience. C'est Bon is lovely, nicely decorated and comfortable, but the ambience won't win awards; the food is to die for (if you like Frence cooking). The river patio at the Oriental Hotel has excellent food, a lovely atmosphere on the bank of the Choprya River and is amazingly reasonable for the quality of the food and enjoyable atmosphere. I don't think that anyone goes to an upmarket restaurant "just for the food", but I guess I could be wrong. But the food better be dam_n good, and there needs to be some "angle" that really excites people to make them willing to shell out some pretty big bucks for "just a meal". The ones I mentioneds (and, really, they were just examples, I have more) all have an angle that really excites me, and that angle could be but isn't necessarily the food.

And, as I said, if you have some better examples in Pattaya (including better food, ambience or what ever), I would very much be interested to know them.

Cheers,

[manarak]

been recently to NO in soi 13/4... they got fabric tablecloth and napkins as well as real glasses, the decoration is ok, but while the cooking is not bad, it is far from refined.

^I take it you are a big fan. Oysters Newburg, quite tastey!!

[Siam Simon]

My apologies. I misunderstood your angle and thought that the discussion was about food. It's become very clear that you're trying to discuss ambience, location, etcetera. I agree with you: Bangkok has a big advantage over most other regional locations on this angle. Food quality? Sorry, we'll continue to agree to disagree: There is a large wearing of emperor's new clothes about food quality in Bangkok's high-end restaurants.

My "angle" is a good/enjoyable experience (aka "fun"). When dining out at an upmarket restaurant, for me, ambience plays a much bigger role than at an every day kind of place. I had a great lunch today at a beside the road restaurant in Pattaya, where the food was really excellent and the ambience was "0" (maybe negative, beacuse it was hot), but for B100 I was very satisfied. I can get a real thrill from various combinations of food, ambience and service. All must be at least very good, but I don't go to Vertigo for the food, I go thjere for the spectacular views and wonderful ambience. C'est Bon is lovely, nicely decorated and comfortable, but the ambience won't win awards; the food is to die for (if you like Frence cooking). The river patio at the Oriental Hotel has excellent food, a lovely atmosphere on the bank of the Choprya River and is amazingly reasonable for the quality of the food and enjoyable atmosphere. I don't think that anyone goes to an upmarket restaurant "just for the food", but I guess I could be wrong. But the food better be dam_n good, and there needs to be some "angle" that really excites people to make them willing to shell out some pretty big bucks for "just a meal". The ones I mentioneds (and, really, they were just examples, I have more) all have an angle that really excites me, and that angle could be but isn't necessarily the food.

And, as I said, if you have some better examples in Pattaya (including better food, ambience or what ever), I would very much be interested to know them.

Cheers,

Horses for courses. There are so many good restaurants both in and out of the tourist areas, it's difficult to know where to start recommending. Delicious food at the sides of busy roads, on beautiful beaches, etc, etc. Your approval of Vertigo sums up your angle. I can't give you any recommends on 'king's new clothes'-type restaurants. Sorry.

[Chaimai]

Not in the upmarket bracket but I enjoyed The Ritz in the Jomtien complex.

[aussiechick]

Not in the upmarket bracket but I enjoyed The Ritz in the Jomtien complex.

Went to Cafe Ritz last night - exactly what it says it is a "Cafe". Food was good but definitely not upmarket - "pub grub"

I had smoked salmon followed by fish and chip. Smoked salmon was exactly that. The fish was a large piece and cooked well, batter was not too thick and cooked crispy. The chips were also crispy on the outside and fluffy in the middle (will assume they were the frozen variety)

My friend had prawn cocktail - stated it was OK - not the best but not bad. Main course was steak and kidney pie which he said was excellent - pastry looked like it was homemade.

We both had apple pie and icecream for dessert which was tasted good and seemed home made.

We had two drinks each and a large carafe of drinkable (after the first glass) house wine. Total: Baht 1400

[Thailaw]

Horses for courses. There are so many good restaurants both in and out of the tourist areas, it's difficult to know where to start recommending. Delicious food at the sides of busy roads, on beautiful beaches, etc, etc. Your approval of Vertigo sums up your angle. I can't give you any recommends on 'king's new clothes'-type restaurants. Sorry.

My "approval" of Vertigo doesn't sum up anything! I gave you three examples of exceptionally good "upmarket" restaurants in Bangkok--one with superb ambience, one with suberb food and one with overall great (but not the best in any 1 category). I very much like all three, among others. I also gave an independent assessment of Vertigo that is posted on the Trip Adviisor web site -- check it out. And in response, you can't even mention one "upmarket" Pattaya restaurant that you consider better (as I said, for food, ambience or what ever) than these. The problem with Pattaya's upmarket restaurants is that they (at least the ones I have tried) have the food of Vertigo and the ambience of C'est Bon -- they won't win awards in either category. And you can't give "any recommends on 'king's new clothes'-type restaurants" -- are you kidding??? No one asked you to (I don't even know what they would be). I think this really shows how utterly lame your claim is -- really!

That is the Pattaya upmarket segment, which does not mean that Pattaya does not have some wonderful restaurants -- it very much does (I think we agree on that)--they just don't exist in the upmarket segment. They exist in the midmarket segment, and some are really great. Most are al fresco, Thai seafood, with a great atmosphere, really good food and reasonable prices, but perhaps not "cheap". That is what Pattaya excels at, and it is GREAT (read my lips)! They wouldn't be classified as "upmarket" (which in Pattaya is mostly but not completely western food catering largely to tourists (I think everyone that reads this forum knows the names)), but they are excellent and are wonderful places for a Saturday night dinner out or for a special event.

So, don't try to judge me by my liking of Vertigo, and I won't judge you for ????? (what is it that you like??? -- apparently nameless pricey restaurants with excellent food and no atmosphere in the regional tourist cities -- good luck with those)

[Chaimai]

Not in the upmarket bracket but I enjoyed The Ritz in the Jomtien complex.

Went to Cafe Ritz last night - exactly what it says it is a "Cafe". Food was good but definitely not upmarket - "pub grub"

aussiechick - with 5 3-course meals a week + wine, you must be about 150 kilos

[aussiechick]

dam_n - you've seen me

I have been trying to dance it of in the bar though - but I guess having more drinks there doesn't help either!

[Jingthing]

At the Ritz, their specialty is their roast dinners (every night). I would go with those. I agree the appetizers are on the mediocre side (soups, shrimp salad, etc.) but some of the desserts are very good.

[VTSVIEW]

Mantra, Trendy and Hip place to dine.. my choice in Pattaya.

Edited March 18, 2010 by VTSVIEW