Yellow Tabien Baan

[doctormann]

There was some discussion about Tabien Baan (house books) for foreigners on this forum last year but, as I am going throught he hassle of trying to get one, I thought it might be timely to raise the subject again.

I was advised that, under Thai law, every dwelling must have a house book and every resident of the dwelling must have their name in the book.

First difficulty: as a foreigner your name cannot be entered in the 'blue book' as this is for Thai nationals only. So, if you own property here, what are you supposed to do?

Answer: obtain a 'yellow book', which is for foreigners. It is theoretically possible for someone on a non-immigrant visa to obtain this book - permanent residency is not required. Interestingly, as my house is 'owned' by a company the company name can go in the blue book, and has done so, but my name cannot.

I have to deal with the Banglamung Amphur, which covers a lot of the Pattaya area so, three months ago, I went to the office armed with the usual set of documentation - passport, photos in three different sizes, immigration letter, blue book, house purchase documents, company documents, copies of everything and probably some that I've forgotten about. So far, so good, company name entered in blue book, then...

Second Difficulty: they need a copy of my passport, translated into Thai, certified by the UK Embassy and notarised by the Thai Foreign Ministry. This is a pain to arrange and takes some time but, in due course, I return to the Amphur with this document. Everything appears to be in order and they say to return after the weekend to collect the yellow book. Great, I think, but then...

Third Difficulty: when I return to the Amphur they have obviously done nothing but a lady starts to input my data into her computer. Time passes, then she says to me, via her supervisor, 'some info. missing.' it seems that they 'need' the names of both my parents (both dead for 40 years) to enter into the book. This is obviously totally irrelevant but I can go along with it, even though the names must be translated into Thai. This is duly arranged and I return to the Amphur today with the information only to encounter...

Fourth Difficulty: more data is input into the computer then I'm told, 'some info. missing.' Like a rabbit out of a hat an entirely new form is produced (all in Thai, naturally) that appears to require all sorts of additional information - name, date of birth, profession, income, place of work and many other items that I haven't deciphered yet. Most of this info. they already have, of course. I say to them that we can fill in the blanks with their help but that, apparently, is unacceptable. I have to fill the form out myself, in Thai, so that they can then enter the information from the form into the computer. This is madness!

I have some difficulty remaining calm at this point but try to point out to them, nicely, that a lot of time and effort would be saved if they would just let me know the sum total of their requirements. I'm not at all sure if this was understood as my spoken Thai is a bit rudimentary - but I do try.

I have a grave suspicion that what they are really after is a bit of tea money. I can get the latest form filled out, somehow, but I doubt that this would be the end of the saga. I can just imagine the next step - 'certification of income, as stated on the form, translated into Thai and notarised by the TFM in BKK!!'

What does anyone think about this? Should I just slip them a bottle or two of 100 Pipers or a bit of cash (how much and how to do discretely?) or should I set my lawyer on them - he has teeth and connections but tends to charge like a wounded bull!

More to the point, should I have ever bothered with all this in the first place? What advantage is this 'yellow book' going to confer, apart from making me strictly legal? Should I just give up?

Feeling ever so slightly pi**ed of with Banglamung Amphur at present!

ToT - Aaaaarrrrrgh!!

DM

Edited May 17, 2005 by doctormann

[Digger]

Why do you want a yellow book - I have always had blue books and never any problem - just remember to take the company stamp along and copious copies of your passport pages to whomever needs to see it.

[stevehaigh]

i got the blue book in 10 mins for the outragouse fee of 20 bhat I think, with my company name in. why do you care about having your own name in anyhow?

[doctormann]

i got the blue book in 10 mins for the outragouse fee of 20 bhat I think, with my company name in. why do you care about having your own name in anyhow?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I have been given bad advice but I am under the impression that, under Thai law, every resident of a dwelling must have their name entered into the tabien baan. The fact that your company name is in the blue book is possibly irrelevant as your company is not you personally (and certainly not exclusively).

If yellow books have no purpose then why do they exist? Mind you, TiT so possibly they have no purpose other than to extract tea money from unsuspecting farangs who have been given dodgy advice!

By the way, you were ripped off - to have my company name in the blue book cost nothing.

DM

[mbkudu]

i got the blue book in 10 mins for the outragouse fee of 20 bhat I think, with my company name in. why do you care about having your own name in anyhow?

Maybe I have been given bad advice but I am under the impression that, under Thai law, every resident of a dwelling must have their name entered into the tabien baan. The fact that your company name is in the blue book is possibly irrelevant as your company is not you personally (and certainly not exclusively).

If yellow books have no purpose then why do they exist? Mind you, TiT so possibly they have no purpose other than to extract tea money from unsuspecting farangs who have been given dodgy advice!

By the way, you were ripped off - to have my company name in the blue book cost nothing.

DM

If you're looking to get a yellow book for a condo you own, you just don't need it anymore. This is what I was told by the official I spoke to. They are mainly for the purpose of having electric, phone and television connected. This same official told me that a passport will suffice for any of these things. I wouldn't bother with it.

[expatinasia]

"it seems that they 'need' the names of both my parents (both dead for 40 years) to enter into the book"

I just bought a condo and, not being a thai national, could not have my name in the blue book. Regardless, the Land Office insisted on me providing the full names of both parents (for one of the many forms). I complied and asked my attorney why that was needed. His explanation was to protect me from anyone trying to sell my condo without my permission. A determined girlfriend would probably know your birthdate and your mother's maiden name (a popular security question in the US). She might also have access to your passport, and even convince you to sign a quitclaim in Thai. But, how many people know your father's middle name? At least that was his explanation...

[doctormann]

"it seems that they 'need' the names of both my parents (both dead for 40 years) to enter into the book"

I just bought a condo and, not being a thai national, could not have my name in the blue book.  Regardless, the Land Office insisted on me providing the full names of both parents (for one of the many forms).  I complied and asked my attorney why that was needed.  His explanation was to protect me from anyone trying to sell my condo without my permission.  A determined girlfriend would probably know your birthdate and your mother's maiden name (a popular security question in the US).  She might also have access to your passport, and even convince you to sign a quitclaim in Thai.  But, how many people know your father's middle name?  At least that was his explanation...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could have a good point here - at least it gives some logic to the requirement. We are talking house, not condo, which has been bought by my company (I know this is dodgy but a lot of people do it and we are all getting away with it, so far). The GF's name does not appear on any of the documents pertaining to either the house or the company so I think it unlikely that she would ever be able to get her hands on the property (not married, either officially or unofficially). There are of course the other company shareholders - 51% ownership but no voting majority - so maybe the yellow book would offer some protection in this respect, who knows, it would only become apparent if put to the test.

At the moment I'm so disenchanted with the whole thing that I'm tempted to give up on the idea of getting a yellow book (as suggested by several respondees to my original post). On the other hand, I'm not known for giving up easily so I shall give it one more shot before telling Banglamung Amphur where to put their Tabien Baan. I'll tell them nicely, of course.

DM

[expatinasia]

doctormann,

My post about my father's name was in response to the gent who was concerned why the Land Office wanted the name of his parents. In any real estate matter, home or condo, it's better to be safe. I formed a company to buy a home (OK, that's not what was entered onto the legal documents, but it's the effective outcome), so I've been around the &lt;deleted&gt;' block about "39% ownership vs. 49% pwnership", "common vs. preferred stock", and and and...My attorney and I never had the "yellow book" conversation, and it's not a concern to me. I spoke with another gent who formed a company in an identical manner as I did, and he never heard of a "yellow book" either.