Do Any Farangs And Thaiwife Know This....?

[meuanfun]

I do still talking about Heinz again...problem is... his wife can not bring him home from hospitals now,because they are not married in Paper....and the doctor say she have to get the signature from his family in German first

....oh oh...she never been to German ...she don't know the family phone nr. there....but she quick enough to look on his mobile phone and look after the nr...oh and more problem she can not speak German...and the family maybe can not speak english.?.. lucky now she get help from his friend from Pattaya to call the family...and they all agree to keep him here in Thailand... the funeral gonna be thai tradition....now they are only waiting for the signature from Germany...

[Mario2008]

Sorry for your friend's worries, just at this time of grief. It is indeed better if people make plans for what must happen when they become seriously ill or die. At the least register with your embassy, so they know who to contact in your home country and make your wishes clear in a will.

[gotlost]

Yes my wife knows all my details including the fact that we are legally married and she can do my business if I'm incapacitated. I was sorry to hear of the OP friends loss but it still baffles my mind of the farangs that buy into the traditional Thai marriage and then try to pass off as being married. A common law marriage in Thailand takes 5 years to be recognized.

[Dave the Dude]

Go and speak to Norby of N&N Restaurant opposite Speed3 in Soi Kola,Surin. He is German with a Thai wife (Noi) and both are very nice, helpful people.

Good Luck

Dave

Edited March 7, 2010 by Dave the Dude

[neverdie]

OP, That is aweful for her to go through that, I hope she gets it sorted asap.

Ohh dear, I didnt know that. So I wonder whats going to happen in my case, when I die, I don't have a family back home, they are all dead already. Is my body going to remain inside the thai hospital forever?

I already have a will but it doesnt address where my body should go.

Edited March 7, 2010 by neverdie

[chiang mai]

The OP speaks much sense: make a will, provide telephone numbers and contact details, leave written instructions, all easily dooable but just requires a little effort now - BTW, this applies to everyone and not just to us old farts, after all, we old guys don't ride motor bikes as much the younger guys do! Here endeth the lesson.

[meuanfun]

OP, That is aweful for her to go through that, I hope she gets it sorted asap.

Ohh dear, I didnt know that. So I wonder whats going to happen in my case, when I die, I don't have a family back home, they are all dead already. Is my body going to remain inside the thai hospital forever?

I already have a will but it doesnt address where my body should go.

Hi neverdie ...you never die so do not afraid my friend : )

[neverdie]

OP, That is aweful for her to go through that, I hope she gets it sorted asap.

Ohh dear, I didnt know that. So I wonder whats going to happen in my case, when I die, I don't have a family back home, they are all dead already. Is my body going to remain inside the thai hospital forever?

I already have a will but it doesnt address where my body should go.

Hi neverdie ...you never die so do not afraid my friend : )

Ohh yeah, I forgot, thanks for reminding me.....I've actually forgotten the insensitivity of my tv name when posting in these threads.

Thanks for posting the information though, I would never of known otherwise. I have a will but it specifically doesnt mention this issue and not being married I could cause a few problems if my luck runs out. Best I speak to my solicitor about this

thankyou and sorry for your loss, i hope his lady sorts it all out asap.

[meuanfun]

OP, That is aweful for her to go through that, I hope she gets it sorted asap.

Ohh dear, I didnt know that. So I wonder whats going to happen in my case, when I die, I don't have a family back home, they are all dead already. Is my body going to remain inside the thai hospital forever?

I already have a will but it doesnt address where my body should go.

Hi neverdie ...you never die so do not afraid my friend : )

Ohh yeah, I forgot, thanks for reminding me.....I've actually forgotten the insensitivity of my tv name when posting in these threads.

Thanks for posting the information though, I would never of known otherwise. I have a will but it specifically doesnt mention this issue and not being married I could cause a few problems if my luck runs out. Best I speak to my solicitor about this

thankyou and sorry for your loss, i hope his lady sorts it all out asap.

Thank you dear...I think she only waiting for the signature from German and then he can come home...I will go there today... Thank you.

[happylarry]

After the comments on here it shows the benefits of having a proper will drawn up by an experienced lawyer rather than using one of these forms that you can buy. It is normally one of the first things that you put into a will about how you want your remains disposing of.

HL

[harrry]

When made a will here my lawyer stressed that banks will not release accounts to the spouse which are over about 50000baht without a court order. This can be a problem as hospital bills and cremation also have to be paid.

Also she indicated that the embassy may not recognise the will althought it is clear and appoints my partner as my executor and sole heir and states that I wish her to arange my cremation but they may insist on contacting an overseas relative.

This is something I do not want to happen does anyone know if this is the case with Australian Embassy.

[neverdie]

After the comments on here it shows the benefits of having a proper will drawn up by an experienced lawyer rather than using one of these forms that you can buy. It is normally one of the first things that you put into a will about how you want your remains disposing of.

HL

Absolute rubbish.

I agree wholly with your first point about using an experienced lawyer, but the highlighted point above is absolute rubbish.

[neverdie]

When made a will here my lawyer stressed that banks will not release accounts to the spouse which are over about 50000baht without a court order. This can be a problem as hospital bills and cremation also have to be paid.

Also she indicated that the embassy may not recognise the will althought it is clear and appoints my partner as my executor and sole heir and states that I wish her to arange my cremation but they may insist on contacting an overseas relative.

This is something I do not want to happen does anyone know if this is the case with Australian Embassy.

I'd be interested to know the answer to that as well. Its especially important to someone like me who has no close living relative overseas, distant relative of 3rd cousins or something probably wouldnt even remember what I looked like yet alone give a dam_n about my remains. Seems strange to me.

[happylarry]

After the comments on here it shows the benefits of having a proper will drawn up by an experienced lawyer rather than using one of these forms that you can buy. It is normally one of the first things that you put into a will about how you want your remains disposing of.

HL

Absolute rubbish.

I agree wholly with your first point about using an experienced lawyer, but the highlighted point above is absolute rubbish.

I really dont understand how you can say that....does every lawyer in the world consult you before writing any wills? I have had wills written in the UK and also now here in Thailand. Also I have been executer for a number of relatives wills and in every one this subject has been mentioned. So I say to you that your comment is absolute rubbish....

For instance many people pre-buy a burial plot or decide they want to be buried with their loved one or whatever. All these people write in their wishes to a will. And in my case I do not want to cause my wife any unnecessary stress at a bad time so I have included those details for just that reason.

Also we both have our own bank accounts but we also have a joint account with x amount in so she has access to cash until the will comes into effect.

It doesnt seem right using a smiley face for this subject but it is just part of my signature...sorry.

HL

[neverdie]

After the comments on here it shows the benefits of having a proper will drawn up by an experienced lawyer rather than using one of these forms that you can buy. It is normally one of the first things that you put into a will about how you want your remains disposing of.

HL

Absolute rubbish.

I agree wholly with your first point about using an experienced lawyer, but the highlighted point above is absolute rubbish.

I really dont understand how you can say that....does every lawyer in the world consult you before writing any wills? I have had wills written in the UK and also now here in Thailand. Also I have been executer for a number of relatives wills and in every one this subject has been mentioned. So I say to you that your comment is absolute rubbish....

For instance many people pre-buy a burial plot or decide they want to be buried with their loved one or whatever. All these people write in their wishes to a will. And in my case I do not want to cause my wife any unnecessary stress at a bad time so I have included those details for just that reason.

Also we both have our own bank accounts but we also have a joint account with x amount in so she has access to cash until the will comes into effect.

It doesnt seem right using a smiley face for this subject but it is just part of my signature...sorry.

HL

I would never use one of those pre-written will kits. I think you are very wise having a wills written in both the uk and here in thailand.

[Spaniel]

After the comments on here it shows the benefits of having a proper will drawn up by an experienced lawyer rather than using one of these forms that you can buy. It is normally one of the first things that you put into a will about how you want your remains disposing of.

HL

Absolute rubbish.

I agree wholly with your first point about using an experienced lawyer, but the highlighted point above is absolute rubbish.

I really dont understand how you can say that....does every lawyer in the world consult you before writing any wills? I have had wills written in the UK and also now here in Thailand. Also I have been executer for a number of relatives wills and in every one this subject has been mentioned. So I say to you that your comment is absolute rubbish....

For instance many people pre-buy a burial plot or decide they want to be buried with their loved one or whatever. All these people write in their wishes to a will. And in my case I do not want to cause my wife any unnecessary stress at a bad time so I have included those details for just that reason.

Also we both have our own bank accounts but we also have a joint account with x amount in so she has access to cash until the will comes into effect.

It doesnt seem right using a smiley face for this subject but it is just part of my signature...sorry.

HL

I would never use one of those pre-written will kits. I think you are very wise having a wills written in both the uk and here in thailand.

For a simple will their is absolutley nothing wrong with the pre-written wills where you just fill in the blanks as long as it is properly witnessed.

[happylarry]

Spaniel we are not talking about the legality of the pre-written wills but the content (or lack of).

Still if it suits then use it mate but I wanted to cover everything.

HL

[Mario2008]

Some information about what to do when a foreigner dies and about wills and living wills in Thailand. I hope it will be useful to some.

Information of the British Embassy, most embassies will have similar information on their website:

http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for...-register-death

Information about wills in Thailand:

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/inheritanc...law-living-will

Information about living wills in Thailand

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/inheritanc...rective-medical

[Spaniel]

Spaniel we are not talking about the legality of the pre-written wills but the content (or lack of).

Still if it suits then use it mate but I wanted to cover everything.

HL

I understand. If you want to " cover everything" then it probably wouldn't be considered a simple will and best to have it drawn up by a lawyer. A simple will is just that. Where you leave everything to one or two heirs and where the chances of it being challenged are remote.

[bkkharry]

I tell my wife, just notify my sister. Then bury me in the rice fields. Tell nobody else and the checks will keep coming, better than any life insurance policy. Once the atm card expires no more money, but a least she should live well for three or fours years as the checks come every month. On 5k in $ a month she will be well taken care of.

[threelegcowboy]

From my limited obervations here is what I think I know.

Everything is tied to finace records. The more traffic on your cards and other finace records there is no need for social security to suspect you are dead. When that traffic falls off then they look to see if you are still alive.

I have seen Social Security cut off and declare them dead. The guy has to show up at the embassy and prove he is alive. LOL

[threelegcowboy]

When you do die out in the villages the natives know they are to report to the police and they report to immigration and the embassy. The embassy notifies your relative back home. Yes the gov knows your relatives.

The strugle over the body could happen here. If a legal marriage then the Thai wife have control. If not a will. If the Thai have no control then the US gov asks the relatives back in states what they want done with the body. It is expensive to ship etc. It is cheaper if body stays in Thailand. Either way the gov will act on whichever they want. They will give the bill to the relatives in the US.

Best way to avoid any pitfalls is to stay alive.

Edited March 11, 2010 by threelegcowboy

[bellagrego]

Sorry for the loss of your friend and the problems that follow. I , too have tried to plan for the end of days. There is some good info here and some absolute bs as well.

For a starter, Make dam_n sure your will is in Thai, otherwise it is useless to your spouse or common law wife. As to the common law marriage statues, it is difficult to leave the legalities to get that done to an Esaan woman with a six grade education. If you care, do that will now. As to the disposition of your remains. Every area has it's own local headman and he knows everything. If you can get cremated without the local police interfering is anyone's guess. My wife says no problem in our village. She will burn me period. On the suggested criminal acts of fraud by your surviving spouse in keeping the checks coming , that is an iffy proposition and a sticky wicket as you Brits say.

The best thing about this issue is that it has reminded me to get my will translated into Thai.

[happylarry]

My will is in both English and Thai. Each paragraph is written in English and then immediately followed by the Thai transaltion.

Also at the end there is a seperate paragraph saying if there is a discrepency in the translation then the English one is to be followed.

This prevents any "misunderstandings" in the translation being acted upon, whether deliberate or not.

Hope that makes sense.

HL

[harrry]

My will is in both English and Thai. Each paragraph is written in English and then immediately followed by the Thai transaltion.

Also at the end there is a seperate paragraph saying if there is a discrepency in the translation then the English one is to be followed.

This prevents any "misunderstandings" in the translation being acted upon, whether deliberate or not.

Hope that makes sense.

HL

It is my undertanding that unlike contracts with which you can specify the language to be used a will is only valid in the Thai language. They also have some specific requirements such as declaring who wrote the will.

It may be worth checking if the declaration that the english language takes preference invalidates itl.

[Mario2008]

Also think about pensions, insurance claims and other things your spouse or children might have a claim to when you die. They need information about that and what to do, to who to turn for help if needed.

[caf]

My will is in both English and Thai. Each paragraph is written in English and then immediately followed by the Thai transaltion.

Also at the end there is a seperate paragraph saying if there is a discrepency in the translation then the English one is to be followed.

This prevents any "misunderstandings" in the translation being acted upon, whether deliberate or not.

Hope that makes sense.

HL

It is my undertanding that unlike contracts with which you can specify the language to be used a will is only valid in the Thai language. They also have some specific requirements such as declaring who wrote the will.

It may be worth checking if the declaration that the english language takes preference invalidates itl.

That is my understanding too

Just an idea, up to you, but get two good english language undergraduates - separately - to translate your thai will into english for you. you can then be satisfied that the thai is a correct translation. it is then safe for the clause about "for the avoidance of doubt" to state that the thai version takes precedence. safer, you don't want problems of possible invalidity to take place and cause anguish for the survivors

caf

[happylarry]

My will is in both English and Thai. Each paragraph is written in English and then immediately followed by the Thai transaltion.

Also at the end there is a seperate paragraph saying if there is a discrepency in the translation then the English one is to be followed.

This prevents any "misunderstandings" in the translation being acted upon, whether deliberate or not.

Hope that makes sense.

HL

It is my undertanding that unlike contracts with which you can specify the language to be used a will is only valid in the Thai language. They also have some specific requirements such as declaring who wrote the will.

It may be worth checking if the declaration that the english language takes preference invalidates itl.

That is my understanding too

Just an idea, up to you, but get two good english language undergraduates - separately - to translate your thai will into english for you. you can then be satisfied that the thai is a correct translation. it is then safe for the clause about "for the avoidance of doubt" to state that the thai version takes precedence. safer, you don't want problems of possible invalidity to take place and cause anguish for the survivors

caf

Ok ...I had the will drawn up and signed by a lawyer so I will double check this with him.

It is his normal practise to do wills this way I believe but I will ask and report back.

Also Mario asked about pensions....I have got each of my pension companies in the Uk to send me hard copy agreeing that my wife is due 50% of both pensions when I pass on. This is kept in my safe together with a copy of my will, so I think I have done as much as I can now to make it an easy ride for her when the unfortunate time comes.

HL

[blue eyes]

As the wife say.BBQ

[ThaiLawOnline]

This topic was brought to my attention and here are some comments:

According to what we do, I would say that most people do not put any funeral arrangements in their Wills. A Last Will and Testament is a personal document and depending on your believes, you can put them or not. I don't think it's rubbish to put them but sincerely, I don't even have them in my Last Will. If you don't put them, in most of jurisdictions, the "administrator of the estate" (Civil Law) or "executor or trustee" (Common Law) will decide. That's what I what. I want my wife to decide.

Each country has its own rules. That means a Thai Will can be valid in a foreign country X and void in a foreign country Y. We suggest to make separate Wills for each country and consult a local lawyer familiar with inheritance in each jurisdiction. If you LEGALLY married or not, that could also have some LEGAL implications.

In Thailand, you must write WHO wrote the Will (The writer, who can be different than the testator (person who signs the Will). That is a condition to respect according to the rules in Book VI of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand.

Remember that Wills normally respect 2 things to be valid:

a ) Follow the form prescribed by the Law

b ) Reflect the intentions of the testator and made voluntarily

In Thailand, a Will can be English if you want.

There is a general civil law rule saying that you can always do whatever you want, except what is forbidden by Law.

A Civil law proverb says that THE CONTRACT IS THE LAW BETWEEN THE PARTIES.

That means you can put anything in a contract except what is illegal. And what is illegal is called AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER.

One rule against public order is related to the age of the testator. The testator must be at least 15 years of age. That means a Will made by someone younger will be void. It's clause 25 under the BOOK 1 of the Civil Code.

That book 1 refers to GENERAL PRINCIPLES and as you can see, it applies to Wills. The Last Wills and testament are part of Book VI (inheritance). In the general principles, you will also find clause 14. It says that a document can be in Thai and English... not a contract. A DOCUMENT.

On top of that, section 1667 "validates" foreign Wills if made according to the laws of that foreign country. I doubt that many Wills made in foreign countries will be in Thai...

A fortiori, remember what is important to respect in a Will: b ) REFLECT THE INTENTIONS OF THE TESTATOR.

Let's take one example: Imagine that you are a foreigner, making a Will in Thailand. And you sign a Will, with 2 witnesses, IN A THAI LANGUAGE DOCUMENT.

Could the Will be void if the intentions of the testator are not respected?

Should I be able to establish that the testator can't read and write Thai, don't you think it could be easily argued that these are not the intentions of the testator? Or can it be argued that he couldn't agree to what was written because he didn't have full knowledge and understanding of what was written? I would tend to say YES.

You see, it makes sense to make a Will in a language that you understand. Not only that, but I strongly believe that people could try to contest your Will if it's in a language that you don't master. At the end, what you want, is to have a Will that will be respected, to protect your heirs and your family. Just a document that will fulfill your last intentions...

I hope this help.

Seb.

PS: We verified today and couldn't find the regulation for living Wills. It seems that it's not adopted yet or not available on the Royal Gazette Website.

PPS: We will upload a text about divorce and leases this week on http://www.thailawonline.com After, I have 2 weeks of holidays. But in April, I will try to update our text about Wills. We wrote that a long time ago...

Edited March 15, 2010 by Isaanlawyers