Red Shirts Plan To Paralyse Bangkok, Topple Thai Government

[swindonabroad]

AVOID SUKUMVIT ROAD.

No trouble but about 1000 or so marching down, traffic is stuffed. Just passed Soi 77

[ReeBkk]

Something is wrong with the reply editior, can't move the cursor, delete, or use the arrow keys, hence the string of random letters and my reply being on top of the quotes....anyways, in response to the reply on my comment,

Governments are indeed supposed to use their power to obtain wealth for the country, and some do that much better than others. But when it comes to the crunch, government officials who don't use their power to obtain some form of personal wealth? I've yet to witness a fair example.

edjuwfhgho3vrgh 3

I do not understand the actions of the red shirts (nor did I understand the actions of the yellow), is it just me, or are some democratic policies getting lost in translation here?

For example, the right to protest....brilliant, that's how things got done in the west, but paralyzing and airport and a capital city? way to slash the worth off your economy.

The 'aristocrat-backed government' - errr,,,,name a developed country where the government is not aristocrat-backed???

And this whole Taksin ordeal.. Using this power to obtain wealth.... I thought that's what most people in governments all around the world do?

I nearly agreed 100% with your post ... until I got to the very last sentence.

Most governments in the world obtain wealth for the country, not the PM personally.

Edited March 14, 2010 by ReeBkk

[frodo]

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

[SomTumTiger]

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

I think that falls into the "No sh#t" catagory Frodo. lol

[RegularReader]

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

I'll take it as the "Truth Today"...555

But of course the red rag and red tv and several posters on TV, would say otherwise.

Edited March 14, 2010 by RegularReader

[mrtoad]

In Parlimentary systems sometimes the PM will call elections to: 1.Re-iterate to the electorate that theystill have the confidence of parliment or 2: Attempt to re-structure or re-align the parliment members to allow the PM policies to get additional support.

No secret or nefarious reason here. Sorry conspiricy theorists.

Any government with any sense would not call elections at this point, it is likely to further fan the flames of what is already a potential fiery situation. So far, the Government is acting in the right manner, and is not being railroaded by a mob instigated a crew of thugs and criminals.

Sounds like you have an ego problem. Perfectly rational to correct an error of not calling for an election after the court essentially declared no confidence vote which would have required an election be held.

Let me re-iterate that name calling does not help resolve any problem. Rational negotiation between different opinions to find a workable solution is required.

Don't be part of the Problem! Be part of a Solution!

It sounds to me that you have little comprehension to what I have written. Please point out to me where in the above post have I resorted to name calling? Bit touchy this morning aren't you?

As for rationale, I haven't seen anything yet from the Red Shirts that suggests any rational political ideology or planning. Lot's of unanswered questions still remain on this board, in respect of Red Shirts aims, objectives and leadership.

As for my ego, it's perfectly okay - thanks for asking though.

Edited March 14, 2010 by mrtoad

[otherstuff1957]

AVOID SUKUMVIT ROAD.

No trouble but about 1000 or so marching down, traffic is stuffed. Just passed Soi 77

Which way were they headed? Were they marching west to join the main demonstration or were they marching east away from it?

[frodo]

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

I think that falls into the "No sh#t" catagory Frodo. lol

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

I'll take it as the "Truth Today"...555

But of course the red rag and red tv and several posters on TV, would say otherwise.

You got that right, SomTumTiger

i think many of us can expect that, RegularReader. It will be slammed of course with words like "Elitism," "Rich vs Poor," "Biased Sampling," etc., It didn't state which nearby seven provinces were included, but some of these are "red" areas as well. I find the results interesting in that not everyone is being fooled by this rally at all. I've even seen many red protester quotes here and there stating it is for the purpose of bringing Thaksin back. Maybe they failed their red school courses?

[anotherpeter]

I do not understand the actions of the red shirts (nor did I understand the actions of the yellow), is it just me, or are some democratic policies getting lost in translation here?

For example, the right to protest....brilliant, that's how things got done in the west, but paralyzing and airport and a capital city? way to slash the worth off your economy.

The 'aristocrat-backed government' - errr,,,,name a developed country where the government is not aristocrat-backed???

And this whole Taksin ordeal.. Using this power to obtain wealth.... I thought that's what most people in governments all around the world do?

I nearly agreed 100% with your post ... until I got to the very last sentence.

Most governments in the world obtain wealth for the country, not the PM personally.

<snipped comments about editor>

Governments are indeed supposed to use their power to obtain wealth for the country, and some do that much better than others. But when it comes to the crunch, government officials who don't use their power to obtain some form of personal wealth? I've yet to witness a fair example.

Most government officials in western countries obtain personal wealth from being paid a salary for what they are supposed to do. Some make contacts while they are government officials so that when they stop being government officials they can make a meaningful (and usually very good) salary AFTER they stop being a government official.

I don't see how you can equate Thaksin making billions of dollars WHILE HE WAS PRIME MINISTER with government officials in other countries making money AFTER they leave office.

If a government official in a western country was caught making money by using his position while in office, you would find that they would be sent to jail. Afterall, that is corruption.

Edited March 14, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I've got about 35 minutes of video of the crowd that went along Sukhumvit, they grouped up right in front of my soi (at Bangna intersection). It appeared to be a large party, with the usual speaker/stage truck in front set to block two of three lanes of Sukhumvit exactly where the Bangna intersection overpass and the expressway exit merge with Sukhumvit, traffic from overpass and expressway could pass through undisturbed while Sukhumvit itself (coming from Samut Prakan) was reduced to one lane. Cops and the red's own security guards (dressed in black) did a good job ensuring traffic flow.

The reds appear friendly and happy that someone video's them - i was on two occasions offered a red shirt (!) for free, however bearing in mind "police will arrest foreigners at political rallies" i preferred to stay neutral, specially as i don't support their pro-Thaksin agenda the least bit.

They (and the cops) didn't mind the least bit that i walked right into the middle of the crowd and continued filming (with a mobile phone only, don't have a real camera).

When they got moving down Sukhumvit i kept filming, noticing that one taxi was filled with people wearing Thaksin masks (including the driver) and one car had one monk (!) riding shotgun, cheering as they passed me.

The whole crowd appeared very peacefully, no obvious thugs, even the security personnel were all smiles and cheers. Didn't notice anyone carrying anything that resembles a weapon (sticks etc), only their heart- or foot-shaped hand clappers.

Right now the intersection is free again, almost no traffic.

Best regards......

Thanh

[SomTumTiger]

The red shirt rank and file are just ordinary people. Good people, for the most part. They are poor and looking for someone to inspire them. The problem is, they picked a man, who doesn't care about them in the least, as their icon.

[Sunderland]

As and when the reds move to the 11th infantry base at Bang Khen you can expect traffic chaos in the immediate area.

For those of you not aware of its location it is in the northern corridor of Bangkok on PHAHOLYOTHIN ROAD, north of Kaset-Nawamin intersection (Kaset University) and south of the big roundabout at the 5th Constitution Monument (Phaholyothin/Ramintra/Chaengwattana intersection). It's close to Phaholyothin Soi 49 (outbound) and Phaholyothin Soi 46 (inbound). It's roughly south-east of the older airport at Don Muang.

If all the reds converge there, the roads to avoid will probably be the eastern section of Chaengwattana, western section of RamIntra and Phaholyothin Road from Sai Mai all the way down to Ratchayothin Junction (Phaholyothin/Ratchadadpisek).

[rixalex]

Hi.

I've got about 35 minutes of video of the crowd that went along Sukhumvit, they grouped up right in front of my soi (at Bangna intersection). It appeared to be a large party, with the usual speaker/stage truck in front set to block two of three lanes of Sukhumvit exactly where the Bangna intersection overpass and the expressway exit merge with Sukhumvit, traffic from overpass and expressway could pass through undisturbed while Sukhumvit itself (coming from Samut Prakan) was reduced to one lane. Cops and the red's own security guards (dressed in black) did a good job ensuring traffic flow.

The reds appear friendly and happy that someone video's them - i was on two occasions offered a red shirt (!) for free, however bearing in mind "police will arrest foreigners at political rallies" i preferred to stay neutral, specially as i don't support their pro-Thaksin agenda the least bit.

They (and the cops) didn't mind the least bit that i walked right into the middle of the crowd and continued filming (with a mobile phone only, don't have a real camera).

When they got moving down Sukhumvit i kept filming, noticing that one taxi was filled with people wearing Thaksin masks (including the driver) and one car had one monk (!) riding shotgun, cheering as they passed me.

The whole crowd appeared very peacefully, no obvious thugs, even the security personnel were all smiles and cheers. Didn't notice anyone carrying anything that resembles a weapon (sticks etc), only their heart- or foot-shaped hand clappers.

Right now the intersection is free again, almost no traffic.

Best regards......

Thanh

Thanh as a fairly out-spoken member of the forum regarding Thaksin and the reds shows with this post how fair-minded and balanced he is.

Good to hear that things are staying peaceful out there.

[mca]

Thanh as a fairly out-spoken member of the forum regarding Thaksin and the reds shows with this post how fair-minded and balanced he is.

Isn't it a pity that certain other members with his stance didn't follow his exemplary example rather than showing a maturity that would embarrass a 6 year old.

[swindonabroad]

AVOID SUKUMVIT ROAD.

No trouble but about 1000 or so marching down, traffic is stuffed. Just passed Soi 77

Which way were they headed? Were they marching west to join the main demonstration or were they marching east away from it?

going from on nut towards prakanog

[kurtgruen]

I see in the Post that over 57% feel this protest is not for democracy, but rather for the benefit of one man only. Take it as you will.

Pretty hard to see it as anything else, when you see most of the red leaders talking about "Poor Thaskin" and how the world has wronged him. Thaksin phone-ins, Thaksin money supporting the demonstrators, etc. etc.

If they want a democracy movement, or rather a movement to make life for the poor better, they have to quit talking about their hero, a convicted Criminal and start talking about issues and issues alone.

Nothing good can come out of an overthrow of Government right now, unless Thailand wants to get knocked back into the stoneage economically. This is not the time for political infighting. This is the time, to get Thailand and/or keep Thailand positioned strong on the World market. This is a time of opportunity for Thailand.

There is a lot of outsourcing of jobs and production of goods, coming from Western Countries right now. Thailand can and is taking advantage of it, but Countries like the Phillipines and India are taking the lions share or the pie at the moment. We need to give our government breathing room, so they can do their job.

We don't need somebody like Thaskin undermining the government.

So far, PM Abhisit is handling this pretty good. I hope that he will have the backbone and the support, to keep running this country, at least, until the next election, which is less than two years away (December 2011).

Which makes me wonder, if not for Thaskins benefit, why are these people on the street???? If they want a new government, they can vote for it in less than two years and since there are more poor than rich or middle class in Thailand, they will win any election, as long as they put their principles before a few hundred baht in their pockets.

[Golf]

Most of the "Chin" family members already left Thailand. I want to know how the Red Shirt feel. There was a guy from Twitter asked Thaksin this question...he couldn't answer it.....

I wish Thailand get out of this mess and become a stronger nation. I want to say proudly that I am Thai, not someone from another problematic country. I want to say, "ENOUGH ALREADY!!!"

[mca]

I want to say proudly that I am Thai......... I want to say, "ENOUGH ALREADY!!!"

You sound more like my mate's Jewish granny when we started play fighting and causing a commotion when we were kids.

[brahmburgers]

I think their protests will change something ... it will bring the plight of the poor to the forefront of the Thai's minds. So, the government have to make sure they do right by the poor. They have got another 18 months to show that they are doing this.

Ok the gov't can do some things, but governments are basically a group of people. There is another group of people, about equal in numbers to gov't management folks, who form the well-to-do business clique in Thailand.

There is a culture of extreme selfishness that infects all businesspeople here. Thaksin, his family and friends are just shining examples of that, but selfishness crosses all political lines. That selfishness is exemplified by the mindset of "I make as much money as I possible can, and give as little away (in taxes and/or donations to the less advantaged) as possible."

Just on the tax issue: Taxes on rural homes and properties are practically nil in Thailand (I don't know what they are in urban areas). Taxes on business earnings are high, but there are a number of ways in which crafty business people can skirt around paying that. The Shinawats are prime examples of that also. Most of the richest 2% in Thailand have vast rural holdings, and I wouldn't be surprised if they pay zero in taxes for those holdings (some of which have no title, therefore no taxes). Plus, often they're tying up those properties so local village folks can't use them for farms and residences.

Then, taxes collected need to be spent in a decent manner, but that's a subject all in itself - yet it very much relates to the struggles of the poor.

But even more important than applying and paying a fair amount of taxes, is peoples' attitudes. The gov't can't make rich people more compassionate toward the poor. Those types of attitudes usually get instilled when a person is young. That too is a big subject just on its own. Briefly though, parents and teachers should do all they can, not just with words, but with actions, to impress upon youngsters the qualities of being generous towards others who are disadvantaged. I sense a little bit of that in Thailand (usually to benefit direct family members or donations to the Sangha), but there's a lot of room for improvement.

One of the main reasons I disliked (and still dislike) Thaksin is he was a prominent example to youngsters of how not to be. He had such a bunch of distasteful habits, that I was jubilant when he was thrown out by the coup, and doubly so when he emphatically stated several times; "that's it, I'm through with politics." Yet, (surprise!) they were just more lies in a long, long string of lies that have come out of that man.

Edited March 14, 2010 by brahmburgers

[way2muchcoffee]

Isn't it a pity that certain other members with his stance didn't follow his exemplary example rather than showing a maturity that would embarrass a 6 year old.

You sound more like my mate's Jewish granny when we started play fighting and causing a commotion when we were kids.

Edited March 14, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[mca]

I never claimed to be mature. So yah boo sucks to you with knobs on!

[frodo]

Have Arisiman's 20,000 monks arrived yet as he promised they would?

[Golf]

Well said, brahmburgers! I wish most Thais think the way you do. The unequal education is the main issue here in Thailand. We seems to forget the Load Buddha's teaching.

[mca]

It's not a case of forgetting Lord Buddha's teachings Golf. It's more a situation of simply ignoring them.

[Golf]

It's not a case of forgetting Lord Buddha's teachings Golf. It's more a situation of simply ignoring them.

Agreed! I think I am getting old

[Netfan]

Have Arisiman's 20,000 monks arrived yet as he promised they would?

Just a lot of BS to try and give the movement and himself more credibility in the media and to dupe people into joining the demo.

[mca]

Off topic self deleted

Edited March 14, 2010 by mca

[way2muchcoffee]

I never claimed to be mature. So yah boo sucks to you with knobs on!

I have no idea what the above means. I will assume it was an admission followed by a compliment!

Edited March 14, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[frodo]

Have Arisiman's 20,000 monks arrived yet as he promised they would?

Just a lot of BS to try and give the movement and himself more credibility in the media and to dupe people into joining the demo.

Not sure what the actual numbers are, Abhisit gave a figure of 100,000 a few hours ago. 100,000 people is a a lot, but certainly nowhere near the 1,000,000 that keeps being repeated. At this point, it would appear that 900,000 people didn't buy it.

[WAERTH]

Have Arisiman's 20,000 monks arrived yet as he promised they would?

Just a lot of BS to try and give the movement and himself more credibility in the media and to dupe people into joining the demo.

Not sure what the actual numbers are, Abhisit gave a figure of 100,000 a few hours ago. 100,000 people is a a lot, but certainly nowhere near the 1,000,000 that keeps being repeated. At this point, it would appear that 900,000 people didn't buy it.

I am not sure either .... but looking closely at the pictures taken from their stage you can see big gaps between people further away from their stage. That is not a crowd that numbers 2 people per square meter! And since it was calculated that all of Ratchadamnoen can hold 340.000 people (if it would be occupied 2 people per square meter at all 3 parts: Nok, Sen and the other part of Ratchadamnoen) I am afraid they won't come above 100.000 if they have hit that at all.

Judging on the pictures the crowd is not that dense .....

W

Edited March 14, 2010 by WAERTH