Thai Pm Rejects Protesters' Demand Amid March On Barracks

[frodo]

The reds took a big gamble, and lost. Now it is a matter of how are they going to deal with the massive loss of face. I suggest they continue peacefully, make a speech to fight on in the next election, and go home. That way, they will have had one big PEACEFUL rally to soften their well deserved horrible reputation after Black Songkran. Will they be so rational? I doubt it. Some spot violence or a takeover of something is rather likely. Remember how desperate Thaksin is now and that unstable man is their leader, and calls the shots. As far as the ridiculous notion that the Thai army will now shoot on this currently PEACEFUL crowd, why would Abhisit ruin his victory that way? Of course if the reds do some extreme violent PROVOCATION, the army may need to react with force, but Burma style massacre of peaceful people is just not going to happen (thankfully!).

Correct at that. According to TanTV, the reds are planning to seize provincial city halls and state agencies so the government cannot function. They are provoking the government and are on the path to destruction. They're simply not going to win this.

[Jingthing]

The one thing I have to say as an American observer of Thai politics is that Thailand needs to learn that in a democracy, if things don't go your way, you have to wait until the next election to fix it.

Democrats didn't tear up the US when the Republicans won, and likewise, Republicans didn't do it either when the Democrats won.

Well, yes and no. In parliamentary systems with many parties, there are usually more elections, and legitimately so. I would agree street protests are not a great reason to call a new election. I also would most definitely NOT recommend the US style of electing the top leader. The US now is in an almost CONSTANT state of campaigning! There is almost no time and energy left for doing the actual work, the governing. It is much more civilized to have a very limited time frame for election campaigning and also limits on how much can be spent. The US is hardly the best model of democracy for other countries. The US constitution is good though.

[bkkjames]

The one thing I have to say as an American observer of Thai politics is that Thailand needs to learn that in a democracy, if things don't go your way, you have to wait until the next election to fix it.

Democrats didn't tear up the US when the Republicans won, and likewise, Republicans didn't do it either when the Democrats won.

and I would add that if they want to really achieve change you may want to stop putting in power people that are unlikely to achieve this for you.

Hopefully they (the red masse) will wake up to the fact that although they (their leaders) may wear a red shirt and wave a red flag it may just be possible that those who you are following can talk the talk - but may not wow the wok - as far as implementing this change.

but what's the old saying - we get the leaders we deserve.

Carry on.

[Toany]

Where were the million-men for the Million-Man-March? If the majority of the 65-million citizens is upset with this government, how come it was so hard to garner the advertised one-million? It was headline news when they announced it.

Agreed - even reports of 100,000 protestors are less than an aggrieved 2% of the population ; However, we mostly agree Change is needed, both to address grievances and raise the lot of the Common Man and Woman in Thailand.

Talking Needed & Now, Brewsta

If they thought they had 1million supporters then I think the important figure is that 900,000 have not come to the rally.

So it is a small proportion that are giving support

[thaihome]

Thailand is NOT a poor country! Thailand is a rich country with lots of poor people and a few VERY rich ones. If Thailand was a poor country, not so many corrupt people could have amassed so much wealth.

...

These constant discussions on the alleged economic inequality in Thailand got me do a bit of research. In no time, I found this table on Wiki.

Here is a quick excerpt comparing Thailand to a couple of western countries. As far a the spread between the richest and poorest 10% and 20%, looks to me like Thailand is about the same. The Gini, which a metric used to measure differences in national income equality, Thailand is somewhat higher, but amazingly close to the US.

Country R/P 10% R/P 20% Gini

Thailand 12.6 7.7 42

Australia 12.5 7 35.2

United

Kingdom 13.8 7.2 36

United

States 15.9 8.4 40.8

[Scott]

More off-topic comments have been deleted.

Please stay on topic.

[hansnl]

Of Course he turns down the demand, for his teammates are still haven't had their fill of wealth and power. Politicians, regardles of political camp seems to be power addict. Once he is up there he cannot see plights of the people. Four years in power is too long for any Thai government.

<deleted>!

You really think he should give in to 80,000-100,00 protestors?

Paid for by and organised by a power hungry ex politician, convicted by a criminal court?

In fact the Government of the day is doing rather well, seen all the trouble in the world.

But I must agree with you, no politician is in it for you, me or anybody else but himself.

Politicians are politicians only for power, for money or both.

That said, there are politicians that are power hungry, and there are politicians power crazy and more or less ready to do anything to get, remain, or return to power.

Your choice!

[Nuchanart]

Never give in to protesters. Unless they take the airport.

[Samuian]

Nothing original here. They are just aping the tactics of the yellow shirts when they demanded that Thaksin's brother-in-law should step down. They know Abhisit will not dissolve parliament but they need an excuse to escalate things by going for some kind of symbolic physical target. They could keep Ratchadamnoen Nok filled with reds for up to a week but that would not achieve anything or disrupt Bangkokians too badly. They could also let their people disburse throughout Bangkok in groups to cause chaos but that was tried in April and didn't work because there is no coordinated chain of command over the groups once they break up. There may also be a violent reaction from Bangkokians and attacks on small groups of reds by urban vigilantes this time, if they try that again. The yellows went for Government House which is difficult to defend and ultimately took the airports which also proved surprisingly difficult to defend without help from the military. The differences are that the reds are going for a military base which the army is likely to defend or risk a massive loss of face. So on the one hand the govt has the support of the military which is now going to be under seige along with the government and it should be hard for the reds to overrun the base. On the other hand this might suit the reds because Thaksin is unwilling to fund a lengthy operation in Bangkok. The strategy of the red leaders will probably be to try to get their naive cannon fodder to provoke violent incidents that might force the army to overreact. Otherwise they may just decide to block traffic in Bangkhen for a few and think up a formula to declare victory and return home. The wild card is that the leaders don't have much control over the disparate groups with their own local leaders from different parts of the country. Let's just hope that Thaksin's budget runs out before violence breaks out.

Well observed, yes it's (yawn) all a cheap replay of "we can do it too.."

... the targets chosen by "the reds" (their command)

the people who are made responsible for the defendants demise,

happen just to be in the barracks and in the peripheral powers...

and those are the ones who are there to protect,

the country, it's people and it's sovereign - and this is what they did and presumably will

keep doing, cause they all swore an oath - did they or didn't they?

... he who is pushing for what is not going to happen, will wake up into a bad dream...

[hardy1943]

did anybody really think Abhisit would give into the demands of these people? It will all go away when a more aggressive campaign as to the real nature of the fugitive they are supporting comes to light. To me it's just so weird that they let this cowardly behavior continue from abroad and just a simple campaign with education as the focus might be the best defense. Butwho knows,, everything i thought was normal is, just not here.

I could not see him doing that, and I am glad he stood his ground.

Does anyone really thinks, the RED Shirts Thugs can oust the PM

Yes I do, and I think they will.

Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote.

Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election?

That be to fair and easy 1 person 1 vote but very risky for the elite, so forget about

[bacchanal]

Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be.

I guess nothing was giving, so the reds have made their moves it seems.

TAN network: Reports indicate red shirts start to cut barbed wire along infantry fence

This could get messy. If this is true and they begin illegally storming into the infantry, it is over for the reds and UDD. Seems as though UDD has made the first move, which is a very bad choice for them.

According to TanTV, the reds are planning to seize provincial city halls and state agencies so the government cannot function. They are provoking the government and are on the path to destruction. They're simply not going to win this.

Bad choice. Dying for a billionaire to get stolen money isn't worth it.

[Publicus]

The reds took a big gamble, and lost. Now it is a matter of how are they going to deal with the massive loss of face. I suggest they continue peacefully, make a speech to fight on in the next election, and go home. That way, they will have had one big PEACEFUL rally to soften their well deserved horrible reputation after Black Songkran. Will they be so rational? I doubt it. Some spot violence or a takeover of something is rather likely. Remember how desperate Thaksin is now and that unstable man is their leader, and calls the shots. As far as the ridiculous notion that the Thai army will now shoot on this currently PEACEFUL crowd, why would Abhisit ruin his victory that way? Of course if the reds do some extreme violent PROVOCATION, the army may need to react with force, but Burma style massacre of peaceful people is just not going to happen (thankfully!).

Correct at that. According to TanTV, the reds are planning to seize provincial city halls and state agencies so the government cannot function. They are provoking the government and are on the path to destruction. They're simply not going to win this.

Agreed. My concern is that some extreme faction of the Redshirts will want to put some bang into this event before it ends. Even then, however, on the whole the Redshirts so far have conducted themselves well and if they declare victory and go home the Reds will have accomplished much towards exculpating themselves of the violent tag they earned so quickly and readily from the outset many moons ago. A new impression of the Reds might provide a basis of discussion and some level of imcreased comfort in the government in further dealings with them.

[hansnl]

Yes I do, and I think they will.

Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote.

Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election?

"Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote."

Please explain to me how that is any different than Samak, and especially Somchai.

I didn't say it wasn't.

Please pay attention.

In a parliamentary democracy the parliament is voted for by the public!

After the elections, mostly, the biggest party will get the right to try to form a government.

If not succesful, next please.

If one party has 51% of the votes, problem solved, no need to form a coalition.

If no party has 51%, coalition time.

The government is formed by a prime minister+ministers, coming out of the parliament or from outside.

End of lesson.

[travelingmike]

According the BBC which I trust significantly more than the Thai media or police the numbers were far greater. The greatest gathering in 30 years. It is is quite bizarre that Abhisit is lecturing Thai people about the way elections should be held. He is not elected at all and refuses to let the people decide if he is suitable as a PM. The people are angry because they voted for PPP and not for the DP or Bhumjaithai. The votes were simply stolen under pressure of the military.

Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. At least the world can see what kind of people are in power. On the other hand must I admit that i do not really understand Thaksin either. He must have numerous contacts in the IT world, for a few million dollar he could paralyze the computer systems of the Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and Charoen Pokhand and those of numerous ministries. Russian hackers are for sale and it will lead to a bloodless counter coup.

The people do have the right to elections, whatever Abhisit may claim. Comparing the UK system of government with that in Thailand is an insult to the people of the Great Britain. True Brown was not elected either, but his party members were and never switched party under pressure of the elite.

They said 100,000. That is not the greatest gathering in 30 years. Its not even the greatest gathering in the past 1 year. There were at least 500,000 downtown on Dec. 5. The rest of your post is recycled talking points that have been proved wrong time and time again. Thanks for regurgitating them up again, for public consumption.

I think mythbuster must also think sadam had weapons of mass destuction. Oh and sarah palin can see russia from her home. He obviously is not using facts to bust his myths.

[tigermonkey]

The Yellow-shirted people said down with Thaksin. The Red-shirted people said down with Abhisit. Either of the group are saying 'he is evil, or his government is evil". Perhaps, another politician comes along, becomes the new PM, and then another group of people (say orange-shirted) will holler, 'down with him'. -- There is always a group of people who are not satisfied. I hope people can realize that there is never a perfect government or a perfect PM. I hope people realize that during election time (whenever that happens), they will be electing an imperfect PM -- well, just as long as he is lesser evil, so to speak.

Politicians are people and always imperfect -- that's why we need to find out the will of the majority !

Sorry, you will need to pick another color other than " orange shirted" -- they already did that one in Ukraine -- the " Orange Revolution" where George W. Bush paid demonstrators $300 per day, so that the elitist minority could come to power, over the peasant ethnic Russian majority.

[KKvampire]

The one thing I have to say as an American observer of Thai politics is that Thailand needs to learn that in a democracy, if things don't go your way, you have to wait until the next election to fix it.

Democrats didn't tear up the US when the Republicans won, and likewise, Republicans didn't do it either when the Democrats won.

Well the Tea party nut cases are a nasty bunch, quite racist , not one non caucasian at any of their rallies. They hide behind their tax , spend and freedom agenda but when pressed their hatred of the President shows up , often in the banners.

[miksguevara]

not enough numbers to bring down a government..I think Thailand has about 50 million plus population  so 100 000 maximum trying to bring down a government as a percentage is not very democratic...red shirts playing communist chants at rallies....supporting a telcoms tycoon? wires crossed I think...go home and wait for elections in 2011 now that would really be democratic and you wouldn't have to stoop to the same level as the yellows...wow a simple solution...

Edited March 15, 2010 by miksguevara

[gemini81]

Of Course he turns down the demand, for his teammates are still haven't had their fill of wealth and power. Politicians, regardles of political camp seems to be power addict. Once he is up there he cannot see plights of the people. Four years in power is too long for any Thai government.

Yes ... look what happened to Thaksin. He was there for 5 years.

Lets have elections every year. That's a great way to improve the economy.

Every year??!! Great way to become even more unstable and fall to third world

I admire him for having balls, standing up and not giving in to the demands of some country bumkins who admire a criminal

[Dukeleto]

I think Abhisit looks really cute when he stands his ground.^^

I just hope he can find a balanced compromise that lets the Reds march off home feeling they've made their point re; the need for further rural infrastructure investment, without anybody from either side of the discussion being injured or worse. I bet he feels like a trapeze walker right now. Looking at this from abroad & as a foreigner, it is obvious that all this money & energy being wasted in marching and waving photos of a fallen dictator around, and on the other side, the wasted resources of trying to securely monitor it all, it is a huge waste of resources and energy in a poor country which is having serious drought problems. All this energy,on both sides, could have been better spent trying to minimise the damage the drought is & will cause.

Ahhh yes but this would need people here to stop only thinking of themselves...an impossible task from what I have seen here and really anywhere else too. The selfish gene is too strong to resist!

[siampolee]

The latest outpouring from Natthawut Saikua, core Red Shirt leader around 14-00: hrs today

He ( Natthawut Saikua ) threatens to pour 1 million c.c. of blood from 100.000 Red Shirt protesters around Government House.

What a farce the Red Shirt leadership is, do they really consider themselves leadership material ? Thaksins acolytes now want to bleed the supporters dry of their own blood.

Indeed ''A Comedy of Errors''

[risky11]

My point was that that people vote unpopular parties out, be they in Thailand or Uk or anywhere, they don't know anything about the 'new guy' they're voting for, they just want the previous one 'out' for real or perceived reasons.

You are the first one that has mentioned this phenomenon and I wholeheartedly agree with you. There is no way that Americans want the Socialist/Communist/Fascist policies of Obama and the Democrats. However, they were sending a message to the Bush/Neocon Republicans of NO CONFIDENCE. Unfortunately, voting for "the lesser of 2 evils" is the only way of sending that message. Mark my words, Obama will not win another term. Furthermore, in the mid-term elections coming Nov 2010, the Dems will lose their majority. Normal working people despise BOTH parties. We DO, however, love the rhetoric of Ron Paul. As for Thailand, I have no opinion.

[tigermonkey]

Of Course he turns down the demand, for his teammates are still haven't had their fill of wealth and power. Politicians, regardles of political camp seems to be power addict. Once he is up there he cannot see plights of the people. Four years in power is too long for any Thai government.

Yes ... look what happened to Thaksin. He was there for 5 years.

Lets have elections every year. That's a great way to improve the economy.

Every year??!! Great way to become even more unstable and fall to third world

I admire him for having balls, standing up and not giving in to the demands of some country bumkins who admire a criminal

"some country bumkins " -- did you misspell it intentionally ? -- the attitude behind the use of this phrase is at the core of the problem -- this is a democarcy, where each citizen has one vote, all of which are equal -- university professor or country bumpkin

[Caliguy]

looks like its starting........M79 grenade landed in a battalion across from NBT and injured 2 soldiers.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Caliguy

[Moonrakers]

MCOT: Explosion at army unit, two soldiers wounded.

2 soldiers injured in M79 grenade attack

A M79 grenade was fired into the compound of the First Battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment Monday afternoon, injuring two soldiers.

The regiment is located in front of the NBT station.

The soldiers were rushed to the Mongkut Klao Hospital.

That'll piss the army off and I don't just mean the generals but also the troops.

Of course though there is no way that it was the reds, must have been a third party causing trouble.

[frodo]

looks like its starting........M79 grenade landed in a battalion across from NBT and injured 2 soldiers.

Time to shut the nonsense down and send them back home. It was only a matter of time.

[Jingthing]

If true, completely predictable. They are baiting for the army to use excessive force. That was probably their game from the beginning.

[DP25]

Thaksins acolytes now want to bleed the supporters dry of their own blood.

All that blood will be useful for them if the government doesn't take their bait

[granuaile]

If true, completely predictable. They are baiting for the army to use excessive force. That was probably their game from the beginning.

I think so, and makes the discovery of those grenade launchers very relevant. I am still hoping for a peaceful outcome, but it seems that the redshirts are the first to resort to violence (once again). I am sure their supporters here will still defend them, just democracy in action via grenade launchers...

[Jingthing]

The million cc's of blood stunt is clearly part of the red face saving effort. Yeah, we said a million! We didn't really mean a million people. We meant a million cc's of blood! We won! Not sure if this is funny or sad, but I wish their red mob would just go home before more people get hurt.

[vahack]

ok i read this whole thread and no one brought up the fact that the protesters that did show up were paid 500 baht a day to be there. George posted the video of that some days ago. so i doubt this will continue unless the so-called "leaders" are planning to dish out some more cash.

something i haven't seen reported is that MAXNET has shut down service in ISAAN. they took ours down yesterday saying it was a planned outtage. it is still out and they don't have a time to put it back up. i am on my secondary TOT line doing my job. thanks TT&T. glad I pay you 3k baht a month