Thai Army Speakers Win The Red-Shirts Day

[webfact]

Army speakers win the day

By Tulsathit Taptim

Panya Thiewsangwan

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Not only did the Army refuse to blink, its personnel even managed to make some red shirts giggle.

While all uniformed men inside the 11th Infantry Regiment headquarters deserve credit for their composure in the face of a boisterous red siege, three speakers in particular may go down in history as unsung heroes who defused a situation that could have gone horribly wrong.

They spoke partly in northeastern dialect to the red visitors, teased them nicely and reminded them that they were confronting their own children who were only performing their duty yet would allow them to exercise their democratic right in an appropriate scope.

The military orators were aided by a powerful sound system that at one point jarred the nerves of red leader Veera Musigapong so much that he sarcastically vowed to drop the House dissolution demand if they would just drop the volume.

The friendly greetings - beginning with "Let us hear your voice. Let |us hear your clappers." - caught the pro-testers off-guard and further |limited their options. The red shirts had won praise for being peaceful |and orderly and that reputation restricted what they could do in front of the sprawling Army compound.

Intermittent tension was always cooled down by the Army pacifiers and even Veera seemed to be warming up to the host's approach. His co-red leaders were less impressed, though, with Nuttawut Saikua yelling back at one point: "Stop the Dhamma lecture. We are not Angulimala (the Buddha-era bandit who killed 999 people)."

That frustration may sum up a day when things didn't go the red shirts' way. A number of protesters were said to have deserted on their way to the 11th Infantry Regiment, while halls in the provinces remained quiet despite calls for villagers to protest at local venues, and, last but not least, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and coalition allies went on TV to show their solidarity.

Many observers may consider the blood donation plan the movement's biggest setback as the scheme was immediately opposed left and right. The real blow, however, was Thaksin Shinawatra's failure to demonise the Thai Army, a big part of his portrayal of Thailand as another Burma.

"There was only one plan, and that was to show that the military is not the people's enemy and never wants to harm our Thai compatriots," said Lt Colonel Korsin Kampanayut, head of a psychological operation force assigned to "welcome" the protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-03-16

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[brahmburgers]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

[thaiwanderer]

An interesting contrast but perhaps not as sharp as you think. Black May?

Edited March 16, 2010 by thaiwanderer

[animatic]

Yes the government essentially took the legs from under the protesters leadership.

The general niceness, and solicitousness for the protesters safety of Abhists public pronouncements,

must have been quite galling for the red leaders to try and counter.

[george]

More here:

Bangkok Red-shirt Rally - Live Updates - Tuesday, TUESDAY MARCH 16, 2010

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...da-t347906.html

[whistleblower]

three speakers in particular may go down in history as unsung heroes who defused a situation that could have gone horribly wrong.

defused a situation, maybe. Go down in history as unsung heroes??? who writes this tosh????

[Carib]

The government had time to prepare..and they did .

[1plumber]

Nice Job Thai Army

[dobadoy]

In a country where the military in general and army in particular are more often renowned for their balls ups, this was a pure master stroke straight out of Sun Tzu's 'Art of War'. Hats off to the strategist behind this one. I would be very surprised if it doesn't become a textbook case-study.

Edited March 16, 2010 by dobadoy

[granuaile]

They did a wonderful job yesterday, with admirable restraint. I hope this remains the tone of the situation.

[onlooker]

What did people expect the army to do? Of course they showed restraint. Were they really going to gun down red shirts in broad daylight or rush out of the barracks and arrest everyone?

The army just stood inside their compound behind several layers of razor wire. The battle of the speaker systems was light hearted banter. The reds were never going to try to storm a heavily armed compound and the army were never going to mow everyone down in a hail of bullets.

Anyway, should be more interesting today when the Reds go to Siam Square to protest and tomorrow when they paralyse Sukhumvit. (So my source at the demo says.)

[mazeltov]

i am impressed. amazing army, didn't shoot their own people on sight. they are true heros. evidently.

now its on you village people to show some respect to the nation finest guardians, a decent Thai can trust the army, they will take care at everything. you can go home now and feel little bit ashamed of yourselves that not every red leader get it yet that the army is the best.

anyway, beside pooking fun at The Nation rhetorical award ceremony and WINNER celebration with unnecessary childish teasing of the runner up, kudos to all sides that it was a peaceful day and that some people had learned how de-escalation at a protest site works.

[Americanperspective]

To defeat these sily people and send them home simply obtain that new device in the States that broadcasts a painful high pitched sound. Thais HATE loud noises as we know. Further, they cannot abide bad smells - just spray something over the area and they will retreat.

[anotherpeter]

What did people expect the army to do? Of course they showed restraint. Were they really going to gun down red shirts in broad daylight or rush out of the barracks and arrest everyone?

The army just stood inside their compound behind several layers of razor wire. The battle of the speaker systems was light hearted banter. The reds were never going to try to storm a heavily armed compound and the army were never going to mow everyone down in a hail of bullets.

Anyway, should be more interesting today when the Reds go to Siam Square to protest and tomorrow when they paralyse Sukhumvit. (So my source at the demo says.)

The protestors will start ramping up their peaceful "civil disobedience" to try and get a reaction from the government. It will be easy for 1000 protestors to go to 50 or 20 (how many of them are left) intersections and start causing havoc.

They will then get abuse from locals ("stop interupting our lives"), and the protestors will respond ("if you are not with us, you are against us").

Tempers will flair.

The army will step in and remove the protestors ("they have a right to protest, not to bring the city to a complete standstill").

The protestors will get more violent ("they started it").

The army will bring in the riot police.

Then will all be up to the spin machines to decide who wins.

[hammered]

What did people expect the army to do? Of course they showed restraint. Were they really going to gun down red shirts in broad daylight or rush out of the barracks and arrest everyone?

The army just stood inside their compound behind several layers of razor wire. The battle of the speaker systems was light hearted banter. The reds were never going to try to storm a heavily armed compound and the army were never going to mow everyone down in a hail of bullets.

Anyway, should be more interesting today when the Reds go to Siam Square to protest and tomorrow when they paralyse Sukhumvit. (So my source at the demo says.)

Of course the military and government just need to avoid violence to eventually prevail in this round. That is conventional strategic wisdom. The problem for their opponents is that they need a game changer but they cant be seen to force one by going too far. The reds now find themselves in a simlar position to the PAD before. If the government ignore you then there isnt much you can do without becoming unpopular. That isa dilemma. Still for democracy activists ther is actually no rush. An election is due within 18 months maximum and that isnt a long time. They could easily stand the demo down and just keep reminding people in their homes of anything bad the government do. At some point it will be tested in an election. There is no need for the current perceived rush.

[Mali]

three speakers in particular may go down in history as unsung heroes who defused a situation that could have gone horribly wrong.

defused a situation, maybe. Go down in history as unsung heroes??? who writes this tosh????

I am so glad that intellectual is appreciated. Ones do not need to swing guns and kill someone to be called heroes. Stopping blood shed and saving lives are much harder than picking up M16 or throwing bombs. Yeah to peace and the unsung heroes-whoever you are!!

Edited March 16, 2010 by Mali

[granuaile]

To defeat these sily people and send them home simply obtain that new device in the States that broadcasts a painful high pitched sound. Thais HATE loud noises as we know. Further, they cannot abide bad smells - just spray something over the area and they will retreat.

Hmmm I don't think they're silly. I think the rank and file demonstrators are not bad people. I do however think they are pawns of an ex politician. I think many are paid, but that does not make them insincere. Some, maybe even the majority, may be capable of violence if whipped into that state of mind. But I think by and large they are pawns being used by one political side. It seemed yesterday that things at the 11th would get out of hand as the leaders threatened to invade the base, but seems they were well-prepared not only with psychological counters but also relatively non-lethal tools such as water and fire trucks. The sonic devices might be a good idea as well.

[anotherpeter]

Of course the military and government just need to avoid violence to eventually prevail in this round. That is conventional strategic wisdom. The problem for their opponents is that they need a game changer but they cant be seen to force one by going too far. The reds now find themselves in a simlar position to the PAD before. If the government ignore you then there isnt much you can do without becoming unpopular. That isa dilemma. Still for democracy activists ther is actually no rush. An election is due within 18 months maximum and that isnt a long time. They could easily stand the demo down and just keep reminding people in their homes of anything bad the government do. At some point it will be tested in an election. There is no need for the current perceived rush.

There is a perceived rush for some in the red quarter.

If this government settles in and actually does something, especially some good things in the poor areas, then the reds won't have a chance at the next election.

The reds need change now before the current government has a chance to prove it is up to the task.

[dobadoy]

What did people expect the army to do? Of course they showed restraint. Were they really going to gun down red shirts in broad daylight or rush out of the barracks and arrest everyone?

Taking an aggressive approach to demonstrators is usually the way of UK and European polices, from kettling tactics to snatch squads. That's why you keep seeing all those riots on TV everytime there is a G8/G20 protest. For once the immature West can learn something from the more mature Thais. If nothing else good comes out of this protest, at least there was that.

Speaking of learning from each other, the Thai army/police might also take note of the effective use of water cannon in case things do get out of control. Never understood why they don't seem to possess any. Would have been more than apporpriate for quelling last year's Songkran disorder

Edited March 16, 2010 by dobadoy

[hammered]

Of course the military and government just need to avoid violence to eventually prevail in this round. That is conventional strategic wisdom. The problem for their opponents is that they need a game changer but they cant be seen to force one by going too far. The reds now find themselves in a simlar position to the PAD before. If the government ignore you then there isnt much you can do without becoming unpopular. That isa dilemma. Still for democracy activists ther is actually no rush. An election is due within 18 months maximum and that isnt a long time. They could easily stand the demo down and just keep reminding people in their homes of anything bad the government do. At some point it will be tested in an election. There is no need for the current perceived rush.

There is a perceived rush for some in the red quarter.

If this government settles in and actually does something, especially some good things in the poor areas, then the reds won't have a chance at the next election.

The reds need change now before the current government has a chance to prove it is up to the task.

That is democracy. There are up to 18 months maximum for the reds and government to convince people or fail. There is no rush. If no election occurs after 18 months then thaty is a different case and pro-democracy activists from all sides would have cause to protest en masse.

[anotherpeter]

Of course the military and government just need to avoid violence to eventually prevail in this round. That is conventional strategic wisdom. The problem for their opponents is that they need a game changer but they cant be seen to force one by going too far. The reds now find themselves in a simlar position to the PAD before. If the government ignore you then there isnt much you can do without becoming unpopular. That isa dilemma. Still for democracy activists ther is actually no rush. An election is due within 18 months maximum and that isnt a long time. They could easily stand the demo down and just keep reminding people in their homes of anything bad the government do. At some point it will be tested in an election. There is no need for the current perceived rush.

There is a perceived rush for some in the red quarter.

If this government settles in and actually does something, especially some good things in the poor areas, then the reds won't have a chance at the next election.

The reds need change now before the current government has a chance to prove it is up to the task.

That is democracy. There are up to 18 months maximum for the reds and government to convince people or fail. There is no rush. If no election occurs after 18 months then thaty is a different case and pro-democracy activists from all sides would have cause to protest en masse.

Correct. That is democracy.

The reds seem to have forgotten that.

[animatic]

To defeat these sily people and send them home simply obtain that new device in the States that broadcasts a painful high pitched sound. Thais HATE loud noises as we know. Further, they cannot abide bad smells - just spray something over the area and they will retreat.

This from the Land of Noise pollution?

Have you ever been to an Issan Music show?

No sound system is run properly unless the red distortion lights are on full the whole time.

If it is not as loud as the system can possibly make it they think that they didn't get their moneys worth.

And this same red crew has been carrying around fermented fish paste and fecal matter,

harvested from all 3 Thai Genders, to throw at people if and when they get close enough.

Hello, in 35+ degree heat they carry around bags of feces and fermented fish all day... just in case,

and you think spraying a bad smell around would bother them?

[animatic]

What did people expect the army to do? Of course they showed restraint. Were they really going to gun down red shirts in broad daylight or rush out of the barracks and arrest everyone?

The army just stood inside their compound behind several layers of razor wire. The battle of the speaker systems was light hearted banter. The reds were never going to try to storm a heavily armed compound and the army were never going to mow everyone down in a hail of bullets.

Anyway, should be more interesting today when the Reds go to Siam Square to protest and tomorrow when they paralyse Sukhumvit. (So my source at the demo says.)

Of course the military and government just need to avoid violence to eventually prevail in this round. That is conventional strategic wisdom. The problem for their opponents is that they need a game changer but they cant be seen to force one by going too far. The reds now find themselves in a simlar position to the PAD before. If the government ignore you then there isnt much you can do without becoming unpopular. That isa dilemma. Still for democracy activists ther is actually no rush. An election is due within 18 months maximum and that isnt a long time. They could easily stand the demo down and just keep reminding people in their homes of anything bad the government do. At some point it will be tested in an election. There is no need for the current perceived rush.

The rush is to get back into government,

and make some of this money back they spent on the rallies.

And to set up mega-projects to embezzle from,

and of course Thaksin REALLY wants to come home and direct it all.

There is a rush to take back power and it's levers of patronage.

The "democracy fight' is just a cynical tool PTP is using to get street traction for the rally.

[jdinasia]

It is fairly clear that the only one with a need to rush things is Thaksin. The longer things go on with him being dishonored and discredited the less chance he has to re-establish himself.

The real reds (the poor that deserve and need change!) certainly do not need a real RUSH! They just need change. The change must be sustainable and significant. The problem the reds face in the real world if that as things change so will their lives, perhaps in ways they do not want. The shift from a rural agrarian society to a urban industrial society will not come without pain.

Education being the key is obvious but how to support education in all areas is the problem. Perhaps a tax-credit (that can be a real social welfare system in rural areas where people are not paying taxes). Even 6000 baht per year for each child actively enrolled in school would do it. That is only 500 baht/month to help cover school supplies and lost wages from having the kid work at home. That and an adjusted school year in rural areas that allow kids to help their families in planting and harvesting seasons?

The biggest expense would be getting all rural schools up to a decent standard. Western societies still have issues with this (but usually in inner cities).

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

[tigerbalm]

Hats off to the government they have said people have the right to protest peacefully and it seems have let them do so, with out incident so far.

Hats off to the majority of the normal folk who make up the majority of the UDD support, if you were to read the press reports and opinions any one would have thought WW11 was going to happen.

Although I suppose it is still early days.

I read an article a while back that suggests that there is split in the UDD (Thatskin) camp, one group it was suggested who wanted to move away from the Thatskin personality politics and emphasize more broad democratic reform, the other group who were basically benefiting politically, and financially through their association with the former premier.

The latter of these two groups need to be watered down and many replaced then I believe the Reds can move forward.

[lannarebirth]

Hats off to the government they have said people have the right to protest peacefully and it seems have let them do so, with out incident so far.

Hats off to the majority of the normal folk who make up the majority of the UDD support, if you were to read the press reports and opinions any one would have thought WW11 was going to happen.

Although I suppose it is still early days.

I read an article a while back that suggests that there is split in the UDD (Thatskin) camp, one group it was suggested who wanted to move away from the Thatskin personality politics and emphasize more broad democratic reform, the other group who were basically benefiting politically, and financially through their association with the former premier.

The latter of these two groups need to be watered down and many replaced then I believe the Reds can move forward.

There are several factions within the UDD. There are even multiple "pro Thaksin" factions. Other factions include the communists, and others who are purely "pro democracy", which despite rhetoric is not a concern of the pro Thaksin factions.

Getting back to the OP, I do commend the Army reps for meeting with the group, diffusing a potentially hostile situation borne of the Red shirt leaders fiery rhetoric. They showed composure, concern, calm auhority, maturity. What a refreshing change from the politics of "face", "ego" and brinksmanship. Maybe a corner has been turned in this institution. Time will tell.

[granuaile]

Hats off to the government they have said people have the right to protest peacefully and it seems have let them do so, with out incident so far.

Hats off to the majority of the normal folk who make up the majority of the UDD support, if you were to read the press reports and opinions any one would have thought WW11 was going to happen.

Although I suppose it is still early days.

I read an article a while back that suggests that there is split in the UDD (Thatskin) camp, one group it was suggested who wanted to move away from the Thatskin personality politics and emphasize more broad democratic reform, the other group who were basically benefiting politically, and financially through their association with the former premier.

The latter of these two groups need to be watered down and many replaced then I believe the Reds can move forward.

I think that would help their cause immensely, but it seems the interests with the money are calling the shots... For now,...

[jayjayjayjay]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

[old wanderer]

There are several things that seems to be missing in all the talk about change:

1. I believe that most of the policies that Thaskin implimented for the Isan people are still in place. The government would do well to show what was changed that brought the support from Isan, and then demonstrate what they have done to make those policies better. What was tried in good faith, but corrupted by the corruption of people given athority to carry out these policies. (ie the Rubber Tree planting)., and what did not work.

2. The DAAD (Red Shirts) seem to be demanding they want to govern. They have the numbers and ask for democracy. However a look at Rodesiia, and what happend when the British government, and the USA government forced chang. We now have Zimbabwe. The people got change....but only a few in the government that just goes on and on, really saw any benifit. The rest of the country is the very worst example of allowing a majority with minimal education take over a country.

The one person one vote does not work when the majority can totally ignore the rights of those who lost....Strong laws and constitution are needed, and people like Thaskin MUST be held accountable for his crimes.

My hat is off to the handling of the protesters yesterday my the military. With election on 18 months away, what will be done so that all voices can be heard in places like Chang Mai, where less than 2 years ago a people were killed for expressing a voice against the DAAD?

[Publicus]

Hats off to the government they have said people have the right to protest peacefully and it seems have let them do so, with out incident so far.

Hats off to the majority of the normal folk who make up the majority of the UDD support, if you were to read the press reports and opinions any one would have thought WW11 was going to happen.

Although I suppose it is still early days.

I read an article a while back that suggests that there is split in the UDD (Thatskin) camp, one group it was suggested who wanted to move away from the Thatskin personality politics and emphasize more broad democratic reform, the other group who were basically benefiting politically, and financially through their association with the former premier.

The latter of these two groups need to be watered down and many replaced then I believe the Reds can move forward.

There are several factions within the UDD. There are even multiple "pro Thaksin" factions. Other factions include the communists, and others who are purely "pro democracy", which despite rhetoric is not a concern of the pro Thaksin factions.

Getting back to the OP, I do commend the Army reps for meeting with the group, diffusing a potentially hostile situation borne of the Red shirt leaders fiery rhetoric. They showed composure, concern, calm auhority, maturity. What a refreshing change from the politics of "face", "ego" and brinksmanship. Maybe a corner has been turned in this institution. Time will tell.

The army has its subgroupings too, in this instance we have seen some of the more sophisticated better educated and trained among its officer corps, a quality of up-and-coming officers who can sit with the Oxbridge Abhisit comfortably and well, and who surely regard Thaksin as a boor.