Thai Army Speakers Win The Red-Shirts Day

[321niti123]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

l

China --- 1989

Thailand 1976

Thailand 1991

more than a little naive to think that the reds have a squeaky clean record (2009)

1991 was quite a few constitutions ago, 76 was even furthur away, and the the 2009 Bloody Songkran incident was not the fault of the military who were simply following orders and trying to keep the peace (from official reports-not Red's version-only a few people were injured and even fewer killed- and most of them soldiers)

I would gladly salute+ take my hat off and offer my allegiance(maybe thats going to far-but i like this tactic-not all the C**P i learn in Thai ROTC) the Thai Army for all their efforts especially those three speakers. I know that they put a lot of effort into this, I heard on the news that they even a had a team to analyze the situation, create scripts and main topics for talk in cooperation with real Psychologist who helped them calm down the situation. Personally I wiped the slate of old autocracies committed by the army and all the torture from Khao Chon Gai (Mountain where they hit chicken-kinda literal translation-its basically a military camp where all Year 2 and 3 ROTC students have to go) just because they were mature in this particular situation and used a non-violent way to calm down the protesters

[animatic]

But if we're going to hold Thaksin as part of the responsibility for Tak Bai shouldn't we hold the current PM equally responsible for the repatriation of the Hmong held in Nong Khai as " persons of concern" who Thai authorities said wanted to go home which was at complete odds with what the refugees told American officials. Aphisit was a bit quiet on that one.

I understand your contempt for Thaksin but let's have a level playing field yeah?

For the record I have said I didn't like how that was handled at all.

But I also put that down partly to 'International Diplomacy' with Lao,

and how the little people often get the shaft for longer term goals for the majority.

And to the same inculcated jingoistic mindset of too many Thais.

Which made it easier to send off outsiders and hill tribe people.

Most can't help it, it was brow beaten into their heads from day one.

I have seen it on display first hand, usually with alcohol involved,

but there like a insidious undercurrent. Most hide it, day to day,

but it's under there, and contributes to the anti-Farang thing we comment on..

I was first brought to Thailand by some European Hmongs to work on a project.

So it is not at all like I am insensitive to the Hmong situation.

Edited March 16, 2010 by animatic

[mca]

For the record I have said I didn't like how that was handled at all.

Hats off to you for that.

[yesdavy]

This from the Land of Noise pollution?

Have you ever been to an Issan Music show?

No sound system is run properly unless the red distortion lights are on full the whole time.

If it is not as loud as the system can possibly make it they think that they didn't get their moneys worth.

Music show? Have you ever been on a first-class bus? Scratch that...have you been next to a first-class bus? The music and videos are so loud that it is uncomfortable nearby in a car with windows rolled up. BTW, Watsons has excellent ear plugs for those times when you must use the bus carriers. However, even with wax ear plugs and Bose noise cancelling head phones, the noise inside can be quite uncomfortable. Of course, the disregard for monitoring volume is most evident in the TV channels. I am constantly having to ride the volume down and up as channels change. Maybe the guy who inspects all the streetside electrical wiring can help manage the situation.

[mca]

This from the Land of Noise pollution?

Have you ever been to an Issan Music show?

No sound system is run properly unless the red distortion lights are on full the whole time.

If it is not as loud as the system can possibly make it they think that they didn't get their moneys worth.

I always reckon that if the folks in my village who hold the Morlam at regular intervals set up a terrorist organization and were holed up with a load of hostages if the authorities started blasting hip hop or rock music at full volume 24 hours in some sort of psychological warfare scenario to make them give up they'd most probably start dancing instead.

[yoshiwara]

Last Songkran, the security forces were shown to be completely lacking against a Thaksin organisation which was determined, focussed and confident.

It was the Songkran events which turned out to be the rehearsal for the March 2010 event.

However, one side learned from last Songkran and the other did not.

What Thaksin's forces thought they learned was that they could 'capture' Bangkok with sufficient numbers.

The numbers would complement their determination and the other side's political 'weakness.

Unfortunately they thought that sheer numbers could overwhem the reputation for violence earned when they hijacked the oil tanker and attacked the local residents.

As for the ASEAN incident in Pattaya/Jomtien, they considered that purely a plus and a weakness for the goverment side.

What they forgot was that the Songkran violence prevented them this time to 'spontaneously' initiate violence.

Everybody was watching.

The incendiary speeches couldn't be effectively translated.

What they forgot also was that the memory of violence would hold back their potential support.

In addition, and not a small matter, is that the Songkran events gave the government side a wake-up call.

The Songkran events were bad enough in terms of civil disorder and yes, they did eventually restore order...

...but it was the ASEAN Conference disruption which caused international loss of face.

Never again would Thaksin be able to do this was the mantra.

While Thaksin's forces strutted, the government quietly prepared.

The government alliance knew exactly what would happen if Thaksin returned.

Incentive enough.

The fact that a psychological unit was on the front line is a testament to meticulous planning.

Thaksin's guys kept putting out the line that the government was not only weak but needed only a small push to topple it.

It did not happen.

It was Thaksin's reds who were boxed in.

It was Thaksin's reds who were reduced to throwing their own blood.

It has been Thaksin who has been humilated.

Songkran 2009 was the catalyst.

[mazeltov]

Yes the government essentially took the legs from under the protesters leadership.

The general niceness, and solicitousness for the protesters safety of Abhists public pronouncements,

must have been quite galling for the red leaders to try and counter.

Wow, after reading this article, and if I was a Red Shirt I would go home in shame and utter defeat. They were 'galled' big time like you say Animatic!

That Government just cut those Red Shirt leaders off at the knees - right again Animatic

You da man!

I mean listen to it:

• Military credit for composure
  
• Military speakers are heroes
  
• Military speakers teased nicely
  
• Friendly greetings from the military
  
• Army pacifiers
  
• No protests at local venues
  
• Protesters desrting
  
• Red Shirt frustration
  
• Abhisit and allies showed solidarity
  
• Blood thing a setback
  
• Left and Right opposed the blood thing
  
• Thaksin failed to demonize the army
  

12 solid reasons for the Red shirt democracy just to throw in the towel.

In fact this is so adulatory of the military, why dont we just put them back in Government

And Nation articles do not lie.

They are the paragon of balanced, unbiased reporting.

We report, you decide.........right.

I'm sure happy I am now informed

Complicity and 47 Rai

you hit the nail on the head.

The Nation articles never lie. The Nation is fabulantastic.

and the army don't shoot me. best bois evar. fabulantastic too.

i agree with you, they should be the Government.

don't we all have a fetish for men in uniform?

[Lite Beer]

Post containing a link to Bangkok Post and the reply to it deleted.

[brahmburgers]

But if we're going to hold Thaksin as part of the responsibility for Tak Bai shouldn't we hold the current PM equally responsible for the repatriation of the Hmong held in Nong Khai as " persons of concern" who Thai authorities said wanted to go home which was at complete odds with what the refugees told American officials. Abhisit was a bit quiet on that one. I understand your contempt for Thaksin but let's have a level playing field yeah?

Some bad things have happened on Abhisit's watch, such as the Rohingas getting pushed out to deep waters with no petrol and no food/water. And then the Hmong debacle. As bad as those were, I don't think they were as bad as Tak Bai, where nearly 100 young men died while in direct government custody.

As a result of the Rohinga problem, Abhiisit ordered an investigation (what resulted? not much)

Similarly for the Tak Bai problem, under Thaksin's watch, there was an investigation, though paltry, and still no repercussions for the military involved.

The biggest difference between the Rohinga and Tak Bai problems, was that with the Rohingas, Abhisit was out of the loop while it was happening. During the Tak Bai incident, Thaksin was kept posted moment by moment, so there's no way he can absolve himself of responsibility.

Such is Thai politics inexorably mixed with the military. Often a dirty rap sheet is as good as one can expect.

[Thai at Heart]

In a society where people are nurtured from tender ages to look up to elders for full direction - it's understandable that those who feel disadvantaged look to government to end their travails. Granted, government can do some things, but the people also need to help themselves, and not expect prosperity to be put in their laps. That's what Thaksin had them believe, but many Issanites are in greater debt today because of false hopes from Thaksin's hollow promises.

Case Study: many of the protesters are rice farmers. Rice is good, but there are alternative crops which could be considered. In lieu of this year's severe drought, and the real possibility of more dry years ahead, rice is not the smartest crop to focus upon. Just one alternative: There are nut crops which would grow well in Thailand and yield much more per rai than current fruits and nuts (actually, SE Asians hardly grow any nuts at all, compared with western counterparts). Plus, some of those introduced nuts garner much more in the marketplace than run-of-the-mill crops currently grown. Example: macadamia nuts are selling for Bt.160/kilo in my town, and are only available at one place. Another example: Avocados are going high prices in farang stores, though they're rarely found. Why? Because Thais don't relate to avos or macadamias, yet if there's a high price to be paid for things which are easily grown, then grow 'em. Heck, if I was a farmer, I'd grow what pays the best in the marketplace. Those are the types of issues the Reds could be addressing, instead of which type of fermenting crap to put in a plastic bag, or how to get a billionaire an extra billion baht.

A. its members could 'think outside the box' (a tall order) and/or

B. It could get on with the business of governing. Instead government heads are too busy trying to avoid the arrows slung at them by a self-exiled selfish man who's bent on doing/paying anything to besmirch the standing government.

The government has always been the avenue for "controlling" the market. The millers or the sugar cane companies have used the government for donkey's years to move things in their favour. So the farmer looks to the government to be the helping hand from time to time.

Problem is that the farmers had all but given up hope that the government would ever appear to take their side. Often it isn't even the case that the agents rip off the farmer, they then proceed to rip off the government with rice stock scandals and the such.

Thinking outside the box for the agricultural markets in Thailand?

Co-operatized rice production on a provincial/umphur level. The little guys run around forever shooting themselves in the foot on pricing whilst the buyers on the top price as they like and use the government to pick up the surplus.

Allow foreign companies to purchase direct in the market. Get the business out of the exclusive hands of the domestic millers.

As you mentioned, actively move away from rice production. However, Isaan has such poor quality land, this will need a lot of R and D, but then what are governments for. Is the raison d'etre of Thai rice to feed Thailand or to provide the exporters with risk free access to excess export volumes for rent taking companies?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Asa]

Seems most of guys here are readily to take hats of. I wish teh reds had a hand on one of those long range audio device to exchange the music with men in uniform too. It would be much interesting, cause they appear to have hearing problem on hearing the problem.

[shawndoc]

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Couldn't agree more, nicely put.

Yes, totally agree.

I'd go far as to say if the Red's were serious about reform and having more of a voice in politics, it would help if large numbers of Thai's didn't sell their votes to the highest bidder. The poor of Thailand have numbers on their side to insure their voice gets heard via the Representatives they choose. But why should their Representatives actually represent them in Parliament, when their votes are based on who gives them cash vs who will fight for them on the national stage?

The reds should be fighting to educate the rural poor about the need to cast their votes wisely, and to consider the long term value of having a MP that will fight to help them vs one that will slip them a few baht every election.

Edited March 17, 2010 by shawndoc

[Asa]

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Couldn't agree more, nicely put.

Yes, totally agree.

I'd go far as to say if the Red's were serious about reform and having more of a voice in politics, it would help if large numbers of Thai's didn't sell their votes to the highest bidder. The poor of Thailand have numbers on their side to insure their voice gets heard via the Representatives they choose. But why should their Representatives actually represent them in Parliament, when their votes are based on who gives them cash vs who will fight for them on the national stage?

The reds should be fighting to educate the rural poor about the need to cast their votes wisely, and to consider the long term value of having a MP that will fight to help them vs one that will slip them a few baht every election.

I found it a bit strange that some of TV population keep saying that large number of Thai up-country cast their votes for money, because the result tend to make you perceive it in that way. Please think again, this is not like what it was 30 years ago. Don't you think them people had already weigh it in advance who would be their best choice? And shouldn't us in or from the city let them learn their lesson from one elction to another?

On the contrary, topgun in uniform actually are ones dragging behind the real world in term of political dynamics. They might handle the reds at the gate right once. But a small wrong move using the sound cannon device, things could turn ugly like in movies. And there will be no return. I won't cheer them on taking that risk.

[animatic]

This from the Land of Noise pollution?

Have you ever been to an Issan Music show?

No sound system is run properly unless the red distortion lights are on full the whole time.

If it is not as loud as the system can possibly make it they think that they didn't get their moneys worth.

I always reckon that if the folks in my village who hold the Morlam at regular intervals set up a terrorist organization and were holed up with a load of hostages if the authorities started blasting hip hop or rock music at full volume 24 hours in some sort of psychological warfare scenario to make them give up they'd most probably start dancing instead.

ROTFLOL.

Yes all too true!

[shawndoc]

I found it a bit strange that some of TV population keep saying that large number of Thai up-country cast their votes for money, because the result tend to make you perceive it in that way. Please think again, this is not like what it was 30 years ago.

Well, I don't perceive it that way because I don't like the result.

I perceive it that way because the PPP was caught doing it as a party wide policy in the last election, and was disbanded because of it. Some Democrats are also currently under investigation for vote buying as well. There are also numerous posters here on ThaiVisa who live in rural areas who claim to have witnessed it themselves.

So bury your head in the sand all you want and try to spin it any way you want, it doesn't change what happened in the last election and what is likely to happen in future elections until the rural Thai's wake up and realize their vote is worth more than a few baht every few years.

[Asa]

I found it a bit strange that some of TV population keep saying that large number of Thai up-country cast their votes for money, because the result tend to make you perceive it in that way. Please think again, this is not like what it was 30 years ago.

Well, I don't perceive it that way because I don't like the result.

I perceive it that way because the PPP was caught doing it as a party wide policy in the last election, and was disbanded because of it. Some Democrats are also currently under investigation for vote buying as well. There are also numerous posters here on ThaiVisa who live in rural areas who claim to have witnessed it themselves.

So bury your head in the sand all you want and try to spin it any way you want, it doesn't change what happened in the last election and what is likely to happen in future elections until the rural Thai's wake up and realize their vote is worth more than a few baht every few years.

You referred to planned retroactive politicalized ban? Well, if you cannot stand the result of the last election, go on suffer some more from the boom boom.