Thai Red Shirts Declare 'Class War'

[webfact]

Thai Red Shirts declare 'class war'

by Rachel O'Brien

BANGKOK (AFP) - Thailand's rural underclass, vying to revive flagging momentum after a week of colourful protests, appealed Thursday for a popular uprising against the well-entrenched political and aristocratic elite.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva renewed an offer of talks with the so-called Red Shirt movement, but has stood firm against its demands for his resignation and snap elections.

Police said numbers had dwindled to 38,000 at the rally site, from more than 100,000 at the weekend, as the remaining Red Shirts sought to reach out to Bangkok's middle classes in their campaign against the all-powerful elite.

"I ask workers and government employees who feel injustice to join us," said Suporn Atthawong, a protest leader from northeast Thailand, the heartland of support for populist former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"Rural grassroots people join hands with the middle class to drive Abhisit from his post," he urged the crowds.

Leader Nattawut Saikur said the protest, which has so far been peaceful and overseen by a massive contingent of security forces, would on Saturday "spread out on every road across Bangkok to appeal to more people to join us".

"This afternoon our provincial leaders will give their political views from the stage and declare their class war," Nattawut told reporters, claiming reinforcements would also arrive from the north for Saturday's drive.

Abhisit appeared in a nationally televised address from an army barracks in the northern outskirts of Bangkok, where he has been based for most of the rally, and reiterated his offers of dialogue.

"I am ready to talk with any Red groups," he said, adding that the government was ready to discuss the dissolution of parliament "if every party agrees that the dissolution will truly lead to genuine peace".

The protesters claim Abhisit's government is illegitimate as it came to power with army backing via a December 2008 parliamentary vote, after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies.

The Red Shirts say they are campaigning against the formidable power of Thailand's ruling class -- including military and palace officials -- whom they accuse of ousting elected governments and defending yawning social inequality.

The Reds are largely followers of Thaksin, a billionaire telecoms tycoon who lives abroad to avoid a jail term for corruption, staunchly supporting the populist policies he introduced before he was ousted in a 2006 coup.

The protesters paralysed streets on Wednesday as they fanned across Bangkok, crowding outside the US and British embassies to denounce alleged interference against Thaksin after hurling their own blood at Abhisit's house and offices.

While Abhisit offered talks, a government spokesman confirmed Thursday that the premier had also told lawyers to begin legal action against Thaksin and Red leaders for making false accusations against him.

Thaksin himself, who has spoken to the crowd via video link each night, has been in Montenegro since Saturday and has taken citizenship of the European Balkan state, Montenegrin police said Wednesday.

Rally organisers planned a day of rest and meetings for most of Thursday, followed by an evening of music and dancing -- apparently designed to keep spirits and numbers up.

But doubts about their chances of winning are intensifying.

"Though the Red Shirts have succeeded in calling attention to their agenda, the major societal forces of Thailand appear stacked against them," said Paul Chambers, a Thailand specialist at Heidelberg University in Germany.

"This includes the monarchy, soldiers in top positions, courts, the ruling coalition, and most business groups."

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-18

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[yoshiwara]

Since he is in exile, Thaksin must be Leon Trotsky.

Montenegro, like Mexico, begins with an 'M'.

[siampolee]

Now we begin to see the real agenda of the Red Shirt Brigade,Thaksins money is useful to them along with Hun Sens socialist principles.

''Whats' mine is mine, what's yours is also mine''

Edited March 18, 2010 by siampolee

[mazeltov]

Since he is in exile, Thaksin must be Leon Trotsky.

Montenegro, like Mexico, begins with an 'M'.

strange logic, what comes next Thaksin should move to Tunisia because it begins with an "T".

and what about Abhisit, first letter is an "A" . "A" like ... and for Suthep is it a "S", "S" like ...???

555. funny games, almost like that Thursday is the new Friday.

[stevehaigh]

they tried that in Cambodia and it worked out really well for them. Mr T should know now, he's their economic adviser

[srisatch]

Quote from above:

Though the Red Shirts have succeeded in calling attention to their agenda, the major societal forces of Thailand appear stacked against them," said Paul Chambers, a Thailand specialist at Heidelberg University in Germany.

"This includes the monarchy, soldiers in top positions, courts, the ruling coalition, and most business groups."

A good read is Siam Mapped by Thongchai Winichakul

Explores the ways in which..never mind the myth that Thailand has never been colonised..Thailand/Siam has colonised large areas of what is now its territory. One result is that in many areas Thai is a minority language. The North Eastern/Issan people speak Lao, in the South East they speak Khmer and in the North Kammuang..there are a myriad of tribal dialects..about 80!! ..see Studies in Tai Linguistics in Honor of William Gedney..and then there is the issue of Teochew, the Chinese, spoken by great numbers of people in the Central/Southern area and Bangkok. Thailand is a highly fragmented country. At its peripheries: on the borders with Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Malaysia, where refugees, insurgents, disenfranchised and denationalised hill tribe ethnic groups survive, Thailand barely maintains its sovereignty. A country massively centred on one city Bangkok and a tacky tourist industry is held together, just, by money, plentiful food, strong families, the hegemony and 'benevolent' autarchy of the monarchy and the unpleasant nationalism/racism that has been diligently constructed to create the notion of 'being Thai'. It is a great shame that the clearly constructive aspiration to representation by the so called 'rural poor'...not that poor!!..is hijacked by the demagogue and mobile phone and silk tycoon Thaksin..the Chinese Slim of Thailand.

[CMFarang]

I Guess Mr. T would not be a part of the Elite Class they are struggling against.

From my 17 years of watching Thai Politics , it has always been about anything BUT helping the Poor, hence , they are still Poor.

It all has to do with who you know or what you have.

GREED ??

I wonder , do these people know what HYPOCRITES are ?

Can somebody pay everyone to go home please ?

[craigt3365]

what cracks me up is the leaders of the Red shirts are all HI SO's! Wealthy. Just like in the USA, where the Democrats say they are for the working man...as they drive a Benz and take vacations around the world. Same same.

We were watching the red shirt channel the other day. My wife saw a lady get up on stage and goes "Oh! Look at her...she is big time HI SO in Bangkok." And there she is trying to get the poor people to sleep on the street and walk in the sun for them...crazy....amazing what you can get people to believe...

[webfact]

PM agrees to negotiate with red shirts

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday agreed to go to the negotiable table with the red shirts if they agreed to the conditions that the government set to ensure that the red-shirt rallies would be held peacefully.

Speaking after a two-hour meeting with the National Human Right Commission (NHRC), Abhisit warned the red-shirt protesters against using intimidating language that incites violence, and blocking state premises, or those of important figures including the King's, saying if they agree to the conditions, he was willing to hold a negotiation with them.

The NHRC has stepped in to help find solution to end the red-shirt protest that has been staged in the capital for almost one week and seems to be prolonging.

One of the major demands of the red-shirt protesters is an immediate House dissolution to pave way for a general election.

Abhisit said the government would manage the situation in light of the rallies without adding more tensions but would maintain flexibility and patience unless the protesters break the law such as throwing objects or blood.

The PM cited the intimidating statements by the red shirts that he found unacceptable were "had Abhisit been home, he would have lost his blood from his head and the blood would have been used to wash the feet.''

Abhisit said many people had reflected on what happened at his house and how the red shirts were acting very intimidating to him even though he held a PM post.

In response to the protesters' demand to hold a negotiation with PM and refused a negotiation in the form of coordination by PM's secretary-general Korbsak Sabhavasu, Abhisit said he was willing to go to the negotiation with the red shirts but they must comply with the conditions the government had set.

National Human Rights Commission chairman Amara Pongsapit who joined the meeting said the commission had proposed the PM all the protesters' demands and the government was willing to hold a negotiation under the condition that the rallies were being held peacefully.

She said the government would not impose emergency decree or impose it only when it deemed necessary and the imposition would not adversely affect basic human rights.

She said the commission and the government also agreed that inciting violence and intimidation would be regarded as violation of basic rights.

She agreed with the government's conditions to the protesters that they must not block the premises of the King and his family, state offices such as hospitals, airports, embassies including the home of the PM, the Democrat Party.

She praised the government for its patience, its respect for the rights of the protesters and its attempts to keep security for them.

-- The Nation 2010-03-18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Ungabunga]

Shame That they seem intent to try and drive a bigger wedge between the classes here. Instead of Montenegro, Mr Thaksin should have took an easyjet flight to European ski resort, as it seems he's on a slippery slope.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Ungabunga

[twschw]

I suppose we will be seeing more of Giles Ji Ungpakorn now that there is going to be a class war

[vicco]

Abhisit appeared in a nationally televised address from an army barracks in the northern outskirts of Bangkok, where he has been based for most of the rally, and reiterated his offers of dialogue. "I am ready to talk with any Red groups," he said, adding that the government was ready to discuss the dissolution of parliament "if every party agrees that the dissolution will truly lead to genuine peace".

Sounds like a nice offer.....very reasonable, and if he had the real authority to do anything maybe they would get somewhere.....but with Mr. T pulling strings on one side

and the hard core minority that really runs Thailand on the other....not likely to happen unfortunately.....kinda like Israel and Hamas trying to agree............

[bifftastic]

It is a great shame that the clearly constructive aspiration to representation by the so called 'rural poor'...not that poor!!..is hijacked by the demagogue and mobile phone and silk tycoon Thaksin..the Chinese Slim of Thailand.

It is indeed unfortunate that a personality cult rather than a legitimate political party with clear policies seems to be what they have. They may have it but everyone focuses on Thaksin, this last rally was, I believe, a missed opportunity to swing public attention away from him and on to the issues.

In all political arenas the leaders of various parties often fall foul of either their own mis-guided actions (or criminality!) or are discredited by the opposition. What happens then is, they step down amid much publicity, disappear into the background whilst others repeatedly re-affirm the party line and the party re-groups and carries on.

[gymboy33]

they must be taking a leaf out gordon brown/labours book in the uk,who have declared a class more against the conservation public school boys party who are out for the upper classes first and foremost..

pretty similar to here

and the conservative and dem leaders both went to eton

[EastSaxCol]

I suppose we will be seeing more of Giles Ji Ungpakorn now that there is going to be a class war

Except that he's exiled in the UK to avoid a court appearance on a celeste majeste rap.

More of a Troksky than Khun Thaksin admittedly.

[Scott]

Current and former politicians have proper names, please use them. One post deleted.

[fenny99]

When Petrol prices rose in the uk. There were protests outside the petrochem works , which stopped petrol gas and oil being delivered all over the country , crippling the u.k. Bringing it to a stand still after a few days there were no cars busses or trains . No one could get to work it was great

If there serious why dont the Thais follow suit bring Bangkok to its knees .

They will have to listen then ???? wont they ..

I LOVE ANARCHY 2010

[thaibkk]

djees, nice forum , you type a name wrong (esp) and your post got delllleted... oh typo.. also delete ?

[jayboy]

I suppose we will be seeing more of Giles Ji Ungpakorn now that there is going to be a class war

I doubt it.There's an additional irony that Acharn Giles is as about upper middle class as one can get in Thailand without bumping into the Mom Luangs and Higher Moms.

Another irony is that that some of the fervent anti Reds and by extension devotees of the Old Etonian Abhisit on this forum loathe his toff counterpart Cameron in the UK.I'm talking about the Brit contingent here of course.

Message seems to be is that it's perfectly in order to drool like a serf about the upper class in another culture and country,but to be twisted with class envy and bitterness when it comes to contemplating toffs in one's own country.As the Americans say go figure.

[yoshiwara]

Abhisit is very clever.

He has offered the reds dialogue towards an agreement.

That wasn't on the red's (sorry, Thaksin's) game plan.

The game plan was to force the PM to resign.

Then the reds claim success.

Then the reds go to victory.

Unreal but there it is.

However, in reality it is the reds who have been defeated.

Abhisit's offer is splitting the reds.

Some want to get real and say yes.

Some want to say no.

The No's will be split.

Some want to continue the struggle, the 'class struggle' as the new direction.

They want to force the PM out, no deal, keep the demos going.

Some want to say no not because they want to keep on the same track, but because they are now staring at defeat.

Electoral defeat.

They need to regroup.

Unfortunately, the realistic group and the soft No's do not represent Thaksin's will.

His will is to continue full tilt.

They are falling apart.

[animatic]

Quote from above:

Though the Red Shirts have succeeded in calling attention to their agenda, the major societal forces of Thailand appear stacked against them," said Paul Chambers, a Thailand specialist at Heidelberg University in Germany.

"This includes the monarchy, soldiers in top positions, courts, the ruling coalition, and most business groups."

A good read is Siam Mapped by Thongchai Winichakul

Explores the ways in which..never mind the myth that Thailand has never been colonised..Thailand/Siam has colonised large areas of what is now its territory. One result is that in many areas Thai is a minority language. The North Eastern/Issan people speak Lao, in the South East they speak Khmer and in the North Kammuang..there are a myriad of tribal dialects..about 80!! ..see Studies in Tai Linguistics in Honor of William Gedney..and then there is the issue of Teochew, the Chinese, spoken by great numbers of people in the Central/Southern area and Bangkok. Thailand is a highly fragmented country. At its peripheries: on the borders with Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Malaysia, where refugees, insurgents, disenfranchised and denationalised hill tribe ethnic groups survive, Thailand barely maintains its sovereignty. A country massively centred on one city Bangkok and a tacky tourist industry is held together, just, by money, plentiful food, strong families, the hegemony and 'benevolent' autarchy of the monarchy and the unpleasant nationalism/racism that has been diligently constructed to create the notion of 'being Thai'.

It is a great shame that the clearly constructive aspiration to representation by the so called 'rural poor'...not that poor!!..is hijacked by the demagogue and mobile phone and silk tycoon Thaksin..the Chinese Slim of Thailand.

Class war? Bravo what a brilliant and original idea!

Especially seeing how well it has not worked everywhere else.

Hey, Giles will be happy as a bearded clam in the Red Sea!

Elites?

They list Political and Aristocratic elite, as if it is ONE Elite.. far from it.

And ignore;

The business elite striving to be the two above, by walking on the workers hands.

social climbing elite hoping to have the status of the top two,by looking down on others big time.

Sports and Pop star elites and all the many different people who have excelled,

or came from families that excelled over time.

All successful people are elites in some way, as well as the middle classes,

showing the beginnings of social status and creature comforts improvement.

All at different stages in the Kow Tow society melded with the new found capitalist society,

and freedoms unheard of even 50 years ago. 'A people' need to grow into such

a new cultural miasma, and that takes time and trial by error change.

Khun Thongchai has an excellent article, not dissimilar to many of my posts about

the artificial nature of Thailand as an entity trying to create a Thai Culture and Identity,

from many different ones at a cultural cross roads. And some of the problem this causes in Thailand.

Class war, 67 million class wars daily, and not letting up, it is ingrained in the last dozen generations,

and only the advent of western media access for all is altering that perception in an way.

Not to say that is BETTER, but it is an viewable alternative and the MTV Tweeting generation

will have considerably different thought patterns than their parents and parents parents.

[Bagwan]

I suppose we will be seeing more of Giles Ji Ungpakorn now that there is going to be a class war

Except that he's exiled in the UK to avoid a court appearance on a celeste majeste rap.

More of a Troksky than Khun Thaksin admittedly.

Celeste ? Heavenly? Like nothing on Earth would be more accurate

[Bagwan]

I suppose we will be seeing more of Giles Ji Ungpakorn now that there is going to be a class war

Except that he's exiled in the UK to avoid a court appearance on a celeste majeste rap.

More of a Troksky than Khun Thaksin admittedly.

Celeste ? Heavenly? Like nothing on Earth would be more accurate

[frodo]

I hope their class war doesn't include the way they speak. Not a good way to win many friends, and certainly inappropriate at any level.

The PM cited the intimidating statements by the red shirts that he found unacceptable were "had Abhisit been home, he would have lost his blood from his head and the blood would have been used to wash the feet.''

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30124993.html

[animatic]

Abhisit is very clever.

He has offered the reds dialogue towards an agreement.

That wasn't on the red's (sorry, Thaksin's) game plan.

The game plan was to force the PM to resign.

Then the reds claim success.

Then the reds go to victory.

Unreal but there it is.

However, in reality it is the reds who have been defeated.

Abhisit's offer is splitting the reds.

Some want to get real and say yes.

Some want to say no.

The No's will be split.

Some want to continue the struggle, the 'class struggle' as the new direction.

They want to force the PM out, no deal, keep the demos going.

Some want to say no not because they want to keep on the same track, but because they are now staring at defeat.

Electoral defeat.

They need to regroup.

Unfortunately, the realistic group and the soft No's do not represent Thaksin's will.

His will is to continue full tilt.

They are falling apart.

Nicely stated synopsis.

Yes he seems to be playing them rather well.

The wild card is how hard and how far, the violent leaning branch of Reds will push their views.

They lost big time and the only way lefty is to Move VERY LEFT.

Giles Left of Left seems the plot twist now, bet he gets a number of long distance calls.

The question is, can this actual bring back the support they lost badly,

or is it a left turn too far.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Now that Thaksin is out of the agenda, we are in the real issues.

I have already stated that it was very urgent to listen to the Rural population demands. Thailand Industry is booming, Bangkok and government are focusing on this expansion and the "good economical results". But they forget that this cannot be done durably with 50% of the population sidelined. Abhisit looks like a very smart guy in the management of the crisis until now. I expect he will go further in order to defuse -in depth- the situation.

The exit of the crisis MUST comprises a chapter dedicated to measures favouring the rural population, part of the Budget dedicated to expansion must be dedicated to modernisation of agriculture, irrigation in every village (solar pumps....), rubber and rice price policy, support of rural famility incomes, specific loans for agriculture equipment.....

If this is not done, the crisis will be only postponed or maybe will evolve in a very serious situation.

I wish the best and a smooth crisis exit to Thailand that I love as my second country.

[Zolt]

Abhisit appeared in a nationally televised address from an army barracks in the northern outskirts of Bangkok, where he has been based for most of the rally, and reiterated his offers of dialogue. "I am ready to talk with any Red groups," he said, adding that the government was ready to discuss the dissolution of parliament "if every party agrees that the dissolution will truly lead to genuine peace".

Sounds like a nice offer.....very reasonable, and if he had the real authority to do anything maybe they would get somewhere.....but with Mr. T pulling strings on one side

and the hard core minority that really runs Thailand on the other....not likely to happen unfortunately.....kinda like Israel and Hamas trying to agree............

Abhisit is playing this fairly well. Actually the democrats had been considering dissolution for a while before. The opposition is still a bit in disarray, and the democrats have probably made significant gains since last Songkran, but the Puea Thai would probably agree to a dissolution (look pretty silly if they don't).

The main adversaries of dissolution are the coalition allies, esp. Bhum Jai Thai. They fear that either they will suffer the electoral fallout from switching sides, or that either side will win by a large enough margin to make a coalition irrelevant. BJT is spending and campaigning wildly in the Northeast to bridge the gap, but so far polls credit them with less than 1% of votes.

Also if the democrats wait for the late 2011 elections, the 5-year ban on a lot of Thaksin cronies from TRT will be over by then, allowing them to run again.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Zolt

[onlooker]

This situation calls for a patriotic Ad Carabao song to calm things down and bring everyone together over an energy drink or cold beer.

Edited March 18, 2010 by onlooker

[Darkling]

When Petrol prices rose in the uk. There were protests outside the petrochem works , which stopped petrol gas and oil being delivered all over the country , crippling the u.k. Bringing it to a stand still after a few days there were no cars busses or trains . No one could get to work it was great

If there serious why dont the Thais follow suit bring Bangkok to its knees .

They will have to listen then ???? wont they ..

I LOVE ANARCHY 2010

when did this happen?

[featography]

Abhisit appeared in a nationally televised address from an army barracks in the northern outskirts of Bangkok, where he has been based for most of the rally, and reiterated his offers of dialogue. "I am ready to talk with any Red groups," he said, adding that the government was ready to discuss the dissolution of parliament "if every party agrees that the dissolution will truly lead to genuine peace".

Sounds like a nice offer.....very reasonable, and if he had the real authority to do anything maybe they would get somewhere.....but with Mr. T pulling strings on one side

and the hard core minority that really runs Thailand on the other....not likely to happen unfortunately.....kinda like Israel and Hamas trying to agree............

Abhisit is playing this fairly well. Actually the democrats had been considering dissolution for a while before. The opposition is still a bit in disarray, and the democrats have probably made significant gains since last Songkran, but the Puea Thai would probably agree to a dissolution (look pretty silly if they don't).

The main adversaries of dissolution are the coalition allies, esp. Bhum Jai Thai. They fear that either they will suffer the electoral fallout from switching sides, or that either side will win by a large enough margin to make a coalition irrelevant. BJT is spending and campaigning wildly in the Northeast to bridge the gap, but so far polls credit them with less than 1% of votes.

Also if the democrats wait for the late 2011 elections, the 5-year ban on a lot of Thaksin cronies from TRT will be over by then, allowing them to run again.

Why are the Reds not willing to wait til next years election, if it is past the 5 year ban on Thaksin's group? That doesn't make any sense from their position.

Also, "Thaksin himself, who has spoken to the crowd via video link each night, has been in Montenegro since Saturday and has taken citizenship of the European Balkan state, Montenegrin police said Wednesday". IF he has taken citizenship there, doesn't Thailand have the option to end his Thai citizenship? Dual citizenships is not permitted.