The inquest into the death of two Welsh lads who died following a high speed crash in Pattaya last year has been reported on the BBC

Verdict Accidental, may have swerved to avoid a dog in the road.

Tragic.

I remember the incident being reported.

Everyone is responsible for their own life and well being ,choosing the way we use it.

Unfortunately this was a very poor (or unlucky) choice.

If this is indeed true...it brings up an important fact about driving in Pattaya/Thailand. It may sound cruel and harsh but IMO it is very necessary due to the large number of soi dogs and cats everywhere. If a driver encounters a dog/cat on the road or crossing the road one must always plow-on straight ahead and not slow down or swerve to avoid it. In the congested roads in any built-up urbanized area of Thailand this is necessary due to the car-moto-push-cart-people congestion found on all the streets and narrow sois in the country. The danger to life and property of trying to avoid the dog/cat is too great.

I know this is counter to how we would want to act but I feel it is very necessary. In order to act appropriately should the occasion arise, one must also think about this situation beforehand and mentally practice the routine in one's head when driving or else our "natural" avoidance reaction would kick into action.

Sure. This is the tunnel vision driving that makes crossing the road very dangerous for people too.

Look up, down, right, left, sideways, under, over and beyond before crossing.

Take care.

I do have a link for a video showing the aftermath of this crash, should anyone wish to see it feel free to pm me and I will reply with the link. it is gruesome but to be fair it should be shown to people that regularly ride here, especially without helmets (although in the video it appears one was wearing one of those cheap plastic helmets.

No doubt I will get flamed for having the video, but like I said it is not out of morbid fascination, I just believe that people should be allowed to see it if it can help others take more care when riding or make sure they have a decent helmet.

You can see the last pathway they took on 2nd rd with this youtube

they hit the curb at 1;32 and one body ended up on sidewalk and the other near the walkway accross the road 1;38, must be 30 meters from curb to where the bodys ended up.

The green tall Hieniken sign was involved. bent

I did ask some thais at the scene what they saw. They said the bike was going extremely fast.

The report quoted the Coroner, Mr Owen: "A dog running out is quite a common cause for an accident of this kind."

I am sorry but travelling at high speed through town is more a contributing factor than a soi dog. If the lads were a little slower, perhaps the outcome might be less tragic. If you are travelling at ridiculously high speeds on a motorcycle, and I have witnessed many (thai and farang), then it is an accident waiting to happen whether you are avoiding soi dogs, pedestrians, pot holes, illegally parked cars, other bad drivers, drunks, other tourists with different/unpredictable road sense and a whole lot of other hazards.

In a situation like this: speed kills, soi dogs don't. Remove all soi dogs and guess what, there will still be speedsters ending up dead or injured. My only hope is that innocent bystanders (huamn or aimal) are not hurt as well.

The road bends to the left and also expands for parking area for the taxi. The curb then takes a sharp bend to align with the road. If you are on a bike and passing on the right, traffic can obstruct your view of the curb. The curb turns at a sharper angle and I did view tire marks at that location.

I have had problems there myself at normal speed.

RIP

I remember this ghastly tragedy.

It is sad but, as reported by eye witnesses at the time, they were travelling way too fast.

I think it would be fair to say the bike was travelling at speed judging by how far away from the bodies it ended up.

Post deleted, please remember there may be relatives reading this thread.

I've said it before but these "super bikes" have absolutely no place on the public roads anywhere in the world. You might think that you are the bog's dollocks in terms of motorcycling but, unless you are a MotoGP rider, you are NOT! Add to that the thousands of other road users who are anyone from a young kid to an old biddy and these things should not be there - PERIOD!

These death machines are rented out to anyone who turns up with the money without any reference to capabilities.

Anyway RIP to my two fellow countrymen, victims of a bit of foolhardiness and Thai lax safety standards. The running out dog scenario is irrelevant - SPEED KILLS.

I've said it before but these "super bikes" have absolutely no place on the public roads anywhere in the world. You might think that you are the bog's dollocks in terms of motorcycling but, unless you are a MotoGP rider, you are NOT! Add to that the thousands of other road users who are anyone from a young kid to an old biddy and these things should not be there - PERIOD!

These death machines are rented out to anyone who turns up with the money without any reference to capabilities.

Anyway RIP to my two fellow countrymen, victims of a bit of foolhardiness and Thai lax safety standards. The running out dog scenario is irrelevant - SPEED KILLS.

Yeah just ban everything.. that's the way forward

What happened was unfortunate but it's nothing to do with having a 'superbike' They would have been killed just as easily on a scooter or even a bicycle.. The simple fact is that speed much greater than 25kmph can be fatal if you aren't wearing a decent helmet and protective clothes.. If these guys had been honking along on a scooter and lost control they would have more than likely had a fatal ending.. Big bikes don't kill any more so than scooters. (in fact cos of their superior brakes and handling they are arguably safer) What kills is iresponsible and untrained riders not riding at a speed suitable for the road conditions.. Again I'm sorry for their untimely end but they made the choice. Luckily no innocent bystanders were hurt.

I ride bikes here (big and small) and try to ride as carefully and safely as posible.. I have lost three good friends in the last 6 Months all to motorbike accidents (all were hit by cars or other bikes, none were drunk or speeding excessively) I know the risk I take here and do my best to mitigate it by wearing the appropriate clothes and helmet.. Banning things doesn't work.. Training and enforcement does.. Unfortunately in Thailand there is little of either and many farangs get caught up in the local way of doing things.

The pathologist's report also mentioned the possibility Mr Jenkins had swerved to avoid a dog.

Interesting how the pathologist would draw this conclusion after examining the bodies at a different location at a different time....seriously, was he there?

Yeah its possible that a dog ran out, happens everywhere in Thailand but these deaths wern't caused by some mysterious power, the rider lost control of the motorcycle and crashed, killing his pillion. The term 'Accident' suggests otherwise.

Anyway hopefully these boys didnt suffer at the time and hopefully their families have obtained some closure on this aweful incident.

Terrible for the familly,but i was there shortly after,the sign was bent double ,they were speeding on a large superbike which was not suitable for the roads or traffic conditions in Pattaya ,they were wearing shorts and sandals and judging by the comments travelling very fast all over the road.

its a tragady ,but it happens all the time here ,just like the thread i wrote a few weeks ago where a tourist on a bike hit my car ,did damage and b@ggered off , i wouldnt allow any of them to rent a bike ,thats it.

I wont say anything derogatory but when this happened they were travelling very fast and were under the influence

It is very sad and a tragic lesson

We are accountable for our own actions in many cases

Blaming this particular incident on lax thai safety standards is BS, except that bikes are rented to people without licenses or sufficient skill but once again adults should be accountable for their own actions

People dont have to hire motorcycles if they dont have a license, they dont have to ride faster than their capabilities and they dont have to DUI

Riding in Thailand is a wonderful experience, but it is dangerous, even when you careful. I don't need a cop to tell me I should wear a helmet.

I have hit two dogs, first one I hit straight as that was what I had been told. But I grabbed he breaks went into a skid and went down.

Second one I didn't touch the brakes, I didn't go down, it was easy to recover.

I assure without the proper safety equipment based on what helmet looked like I would have died.

Road conditions change instantly in Thailand, that is the norm. Ride with safety in mind. Do the best you can to be able to go on a ride again the next day.

This is sad. But, far to common.

The traffic control regs on this section of 2nd Road are the products of moronic minds. I understand that the road safety pu chai responsible is a PH.D, in flower arranging I assume. The right hand lane is for the use of contraflow baht buses only but at any time you see cars and bikes careering along in the wrong direction and the lane is littered with parked vehicles. The very idea is crazy.

Remembering the reports at the time I suggest that misadventure would have been a more correct verdict.

Signs at AFL matches

"Slowing down won't kill you"

You know it makes sense.