Buriram Or Buri Ram

[meadish_sweetball]

Google indicates 'Buriram' with 90,200 hits versus 19,400 for 'Buri Ram'. I am sure there are all variants available.

What I would prefer is official recommendations from the Royal Institute or another authoritative source.

Cheers,

Meadish

Edited May 23, 2005 by meadish_sweetball

[Ajarn]

Slow day, Meadish?

[yoot]

Google indicates 'Buriram' with 90,200 hits versus 19,400 for 'Buri Ram'. I am sure there are all variants available.

What I would prefer is official recommendations from the Royal Institute or another authoritative source.

Cheers,

Meadish

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From The Royal Institute, it's 'Buri Ram'.

You can check for other provinces on this site,

http://www.royin.go.th/index.html

[sabaijai]

This topic came up once before. From what I can tell the general practice is to separate semantic units when they're regularly used on their own in Thai discourse.

Hence Chiang Mai (New City) can be separated but Buriram (City Rama, or City of Rama) shouldn't be, since buri (from the Pali-Sanskrit for 'city') only appears in general Thai discourse as part of a city name (eg Thonburi, Phetchaburi). The confusion with Buriram vs Buri Ram comes with the fact that it's rare to put the 'buri' first. Interestingly enough, I've often heard folks from Buriram refer to their town as 'Ramburi'.

On the Royal Institute website there's a page on separating words when going from Thai to Roman:

๔. การแยกคำ

ในการถอดอักษรไทยเป็นอักษรโรมันให้เขียนแยกเป็นคำ ๆ เช่น

สถาบันไทยคดีศึกษา

= Sathaban Thai Khadi Sueksa

ห้างแก้วฟ้า = Hang Kaeo Fa

ถนนโชคชัย = Thanon Chok Chai

ซอยบุญมา = Soi Bun Ma

ยกเว้นคำประสมซึ่งถือว่าเป็นคำเดียวกัน และวิสามานยนามที่เป็นชื่อบุคคล ให้เขียนติดกัน เช่น

ลูกเสือ (คน) = luksuea

จานผี = chanphi

รถไฟ = rotfai

หลวงไพเราะเสียงซอ = Luang Phairosiangso

นายโชคชัย จิตงาม = Nai Chokchai Chitngam

On the other hand, the RI isn't always consistent with this rule, writing 'Maha Nakhon' even though the word 'maha' - borrowed from Pali-Sanskrit - isn't used on its own in Thai.

In fact the website has listings for every amphoe in every province. In that section it says the standard is 'Buri Ram'. Other RI examples include Thon Buri and Phaya Thai though one more commonly sees Thonburi and Phayathai.

I prefer Buriram myself for the reasons stated above, and your Google search suggests I'm not alone.

Ramburi?

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks sabaijai and yoot.

Slow day, Meadish?

Actually, it's been far too fast... I wish I could rewind it a few hours.

[RDN]

Thanks sabaijai and yoot.

Slow day, Meadish?

Actually, it's been far too fast... I wish I could rewind it a few hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even slower in Phuket. There's a hairdressing salon near my local pub, but the sign says "Bar Ber".

[lampard10]

What about the big signs all over the airport which clearly announce

" BURIRUM AIRPORT'

Come on lads, how many times must we have this. How long have you lot been here. Thai to English is purely phonetical. There are no 'translations' It is written exactly as the person doing the writing hears it. Exactly as in English someone trying to put a Scots accent on paper might write 'Thars a moose in the hoose' of course it's wrong..........but thats how it's said.

[meadish_sweetball]

What about the big signs all over the airport which clearly announce

" BURIRUM AIRPORT'

Come on lads, how many times must we have this. How long have you lot been here. Thai to English is purely phonetical. There are no 'translations' It is written exactly as the person doing the writing hears it. Exactly as in English someone trying to put a Scots accent on paper might write 'Thars a moose in the hoose' of course it's wrong..........but thats how it's said.

My question was about whether to use a separating space or not, not about the transcription of Thai into Roman letters. Not the same issue.

When writing something that is going to be published it is advisable to try to follow the norm (or in the absence of a norm, follow majority usage). This is the reason behind my question. The Royal Institute issue recommendations for spelling and pronunciation of Thai, and they are the closest thing to a language authority Thailand has, which is why I like to follow their advice if possible.

When it comes to something as basic and official as the names of the provinces, I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first - it is just laziness on their part. If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

[lampard10]

What about the big signs all over the airport which clearly announce

" BURIRUM AIRPORT'

Come on lads, how many times must we have this. How long have you lot been here. Thai to English is purely phonetical. There are no 'translations' It is written exactly as the person doing the writing hears it. Exactly as in English someone trying to put a Scots accent on paper might write 'Thars a moose in the hoose' of course it's wrong..........but thats how it's said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My question was about whether to use a separating space or not, not about the transcription of Thai into Roman letters. Not the same issue.

When writing something that is going to be published it is advisable to try to follow the norm (or in the absence of a norm, follow majority usage). This is the reason behind my question. The Royal Institute issue recommendations for spelling and pronunciation of Thai, and they are the closest thing to a language authority Thailand has, which is why I like to follow their advice if possible.

When it comes to something as basic and official as the names of the provinces, I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first - it is just laziness on their part. If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I stand corrected. It's just there's so many threads about this. sorry

[snowleopard]

What about the big signs all over the airport which clearly announce

" BURIRUM AIRPORT'

Come on lads, how many times must we have this. How long have you lot been here. Thai to English is purely phonetical. There are no 'translations' It is written exactly as the person doing the writing hears it. Exactly as in English someone trying to put a Scots accent on paper might write 'Thars a moose in the hoose' of course it's wrong..........but thats how it's said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My question was about whether to use a separating space or not, not about the transcription of Thai into Roman letters. Not the same issue.

When writing something that is going to be published it is advisable to try to follow the norm (or in the absence of a norm, follow majority usage). This is the reason behind my question. The Royal Institute issue recommendations for spelling and pronunciation of Thai, and they are the closest thing to a language authority Thailand has, which is why I like to follow their advice if possible.

When it comes to something as basic and official as the names of the provinces, I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first - it is just laziness on their part. If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

Good or evil? Welcome to the land of the free_beyond dichotomies.

There's no Buri Ram in Thai.Only จังหวัดบุรีรัมย์,so it has to be transliterated into Roman characters.

Trust your own instinct for a change instead of submitting to authority and then copy/paste their supposedly supreme realities as your own truths.

Stock Holm or Stockholm/Mad Rid or Madrid/Moss Cow or Moscow/Buddha Pest or Budapest/Bang Cock or Bangkok/Constant-in-Opel or Constantinople.

"Här i snön har det ju sprungit en hare."_"Jaså,har'e"!

"Titta!Där kommer ju Göran."_"gör'an"!

Snow Leopard or Snowleopard

[meadish_sweetball]

I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

Good or evil? Welcome to the land of the free_beyond dichotomies.

There's no Buri Ram in Thai.Only จังหวัดบุรีรัมย์,so it has to be transliterated into Roman characters.

Trust your own instinct for a change instead of submitting to authority and then copy/paste their supposedly supreme realities as your own truths.

Stock Holm or Stockholm/Mad Rid or Madrid/Moss Cow or Moscow/Buddha Pest or Budapest/Bang Cock or Bangkok/Constant-in-Opel or Constantinople.

"Här i snön har det ju sprungit en hare."_"Jaså,har'e"!

"Titta!Där kommer ju Göran."_"gör'an"!

Snow Leopard or Snowleopard

Point taken, Sno Leppard. You Animal.

In the end I went with my initial gut feeling, and wrote "Buriram", against the advice of The Royal Institute. But I still like to inform myself about my options before I make a choice.

All together now:

[istanbul (Not Constantinople) Lyrics

Artist: They Might Be Giants (Buy They Might Be Giants CDs)

Album: Flood]

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople

Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople

So if you've a date in Constantinople

She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)

Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul

:D

- Vart tog vägen vägen?

- Ja, vi är ju ute på en åker och åker!

[snowleopard]

I don't accept the fact that people who construct signs in English do not check with the Royal Institute first

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

If the Som Tam lady has a problem with spelling something correctly, that is all good and understandable, but people in official functions should know better.

Good or evil? Welcome to the land of the free_beyond dichotomies.

There's no Buri Ram in Thai.Only จังหวัดบุรีรัมย์,so it has to be transliterated into Roman characters.

Trust your own instinct for a change instead of submitting to authority and then copy/paste their supposedly supreme realities as your own truths.

Stock Holm or Stockholm/Mad Rid or Madrid/Moss Cow or Moscow/Buddha Pest or Budapest/Bang Cock or Bangkok/Constant-in-Opel or Constantinople.

"Här i snön har det ju sprungit en hare."_"Jaså,har'e"!

"Titta!Där kommer ju Göran."_"gör'an"!

Snow Leopard or Snowleopard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point taken, Sno Leppard. You Animal.

In the end I went with my initial gut feeling, and wrote "Buriram", against the advice of The Royal Institute. But I still like to inform myself about my options before I make a choice.

All together now:

[istanbul (Not Constantinople) Lyrics

Artist: They Might Be Giants (Buy They Might Be Giants CDs)

Album: Flood]

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople

Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople

So if you've a date in Constantinople

She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)

Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it I can't say

People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul

:D

- Vart tog vägen vägen?

- Ja, vi är ju ute på en åker och åker!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Been a long time gone, Constantinople

Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks

Did you know that the suffix '-bul' in Istanbul has the same etymon as the Thai affix 'buri'?

'Istan Bull' sounds too much like 'bull and &lt;deleted&gt;' so I prefer the good old Viking name 'Micklagård',for the ancient Byzantine city of 'Constantine Opel'.

ในกาลครั้งหนึ่งนานมาแล้วที่เมืองมิกละโกร์ด... "nai gaala krang neung naan maa laeow tee meuang Micklagård" (Det var en gång för länge sedan i staden Micklagård..)

Once upon a time in Micklagård...

The Svear went to what today is Russia (Gårdarike):

via the seas Ladoga and Onega to the river Volga and all the way over the Caspic Sea to the flourishing Islam Persia. via Riga and the river Dvina/Düna to Smolensk. via Petersburg and the rivers Neva and Volkhov to Novgorod (Holmgård). from Novgorod and Smolensk they followed the river Volga to Kiev (Könugård) and further over the Black Sea to Istanbul (Micklagård) in the Byzantian Empire where the first written source reports Varangians in the Emperor's guard year 837.

- Vart tog vägen vägen?

- Ja, vi är ju ute på en åker och åker!

Det var en gång en gång_och den gången var gången inte sandad...

Cheers,

Snowleopard

Edited May 26, 2005 by snowleopard