Red Shirts To March On Bangkok Streets Again

[webfact]

Red Shirts to March on Bkk Streets Again Next Saturday

BANGKOK: -- DAAD Leader Jatuporn Prompan announced on the red shirt rally stage last night that the protesters will take to the streets of Bangkok once again on Saturday, March 27. Jatuporn reasoned that, because the red shirts received such as warm welcome from city residents, they will make another visit across the capital again this Saturday.

He went onto to explain that DAAD supporters in the provinces can come to Bangkok to join the event or can stay in their home towns and gather at the city halls.

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has announced on several occasions that provincial red shirt protesters should start gathering in front of their respective city halls to show support for the DAAD cause.

Jatuporn Prompan last night denied that local Pheu Thai politicians in Bangkok were responsible for the large number of participants in this past Saturday's citywide procession. He said that leaders will discuss an appropriate route for next Saturday's march.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-22

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[Mitker]

Reds rallies peaked somewhere at 100.000. Wow, impressive crowd...

But in a country of 60+ million, it means 1 out of 600 habitants was in the street that day.

If any advocates it's enough to oust a government, then he must be ready to see 15 different governments per week.

Thailand has indeed a human potential for about 2 similar protests per day (60M/100K/365days) if you spread them all over the year.

I know I round a little, that toddlers are hardly expected to rally and that for each demonstrator there may be several sympathisers but the rationale remains.

ps: actually, the real question is: except Who-We-Know, who's ready to buy so many protesters for the next one?

[Mitker]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

[bangon04]

So if 10 Red Shirts picket each Amphur in Isaan, it will be a lot cheaper to organise, but won't it just annoy the local people more? Seems the money is really running out now....

[anotherpeter]

The reds haven't worked out how to get a reaction from the government, so they keep on pressing.

They got a few people out waving at them on the weekend, so they think there is support there??

For a city of 10 million people, quite a few who come from the north/north east, you would think they would have got a couple of million out on the streets supporting them.

But, no. They even got people abusing them in some areas.

I think next week there will be even more abusing them.

[geovalin]

Reds rallies peaked somewhere at 100.000. Wow, impressive crowd...

But in a country of 60+ million, it means 1 out of 600 habitants was in the street that day.

If any advocates it's enough to oust a government, then he must be ready to see 15 different governments per week.

Thailand has indeed a human potential for about 2 similar protests per day (60M/100K/365days) if you spread them all over the year.

I know I round a little, that toddlers are hardly expected to rally and that for each demonstrator there may be several sympathisers but the rationale remains.

ps: actually, the real question is: except Who-We-Know, who's ready to buy so many protesters for the next one?

Your dear Yellows are even less and do not represent more than 5% of the population (I don't want to insult Thai people telling yellow are more than 5%) but they managed to invade the house of Government, the airports, force a new alliance. This was undemocratic.

Just make fresh elections, we'll see.

[geovalin]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

[Jerrytheyoung]

We will see...

What is the ratio of yeast in pastry for making a bread?

In the events of May 68, it started by a demonstration of 150 Students the 22 Mars, the 6 May 20,000 demonstrators, but the 13 may they were one million only, the peak of the events, then only 400,000 (and 800,000 as De Gaulle supporters) France population is about similar to Thailand one

So the number of demonstrators currently involved is significant and the event has to be taken into account. The debate on the figures is of poor interest.

In the demonstrator interviews, (The Nation as well as BP), it appears that most of demonstrators have financed on their own their venue.

Taking into account that the Center of Gravity of the demonstration is shifted to "Class war" and no more centralised on Thaksin, the movement is going to take more momentum ....

[way2muchcoffee]

Just make fresh elections, we'll see.

Fresh elections would require a few things.

1) Agreements to cease all vote-buying efforts by all parties - punishments are already proscribed by law

2) All candidates must be able to campaign freely in every area without fear of harassment or violence. It will be up to the redshirts to guarantee this in their regions. Previous groups entering their strongholds have been victims of death threats, pelting with fermented fish, and machete attacks. This is a huge condition that must be met before any election can be scheduled.

3) Then there is the Thaksin question. There must be iron-clad agreements to cease all political attempts to exonerate Thaksin. The courts have authority in this and political meddling is unacceptable. This is probably the deal breaker for both sides. The reds won't do it. The Dems, military, and most educated society won't tolerate a Thaksin whitewash. Stalemate.

4) Not necessary or likely, but it would be good to have international observers at the next election to guarantee against electoral fraud.

If these conditions could be met elections would likely go forward in a matter of months.

Edited March 22, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[LuckyLew]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

France a proud nation, haha

Without the allies you would all be Germans

But since you only refer to 1700's and not 1900's

I can see how you relate to Thaksin Napoleon Shina-part

Two alleged great leaders spending their greying days

in exile

[Ricardo]

Your dear Yellows are even less and do not represent more than 5% of the population (I don't want to insult Thai people telling yellow are more than 5%) but they managed to invade the house of Government, the airports, force a new alliance. This was undemocratic.

Just make fresh elections, we'll see.

Not sure who you're addressing, "Your dear Yellows", but the PAD & NPP haven't yet fought an election, and I agree that they'll probably get very little support, when they do. Like UDD they're a small pressure-group, and not very active or well-supported now that their main objective, of exposing Thaksin for what he is, has been achieved.

The "fresh elections, we'll see" were held in December-2007, and PPP (now PTP) got about the same as the Democrats, but of course since then the 'Friends of Newin' have abandoned the 'sinking ship', and Thaksin has inspired the Red-Songkran riots and now the Million-Man-Flop, also put off many more supporters with his close ties to Hun Sen.

So I suspect that PTP (led by whom ?) will continue to be a significant but minority party, whenever the next elections are held, so will the Dems and everyone else. Unless something happens to change the long-term pattern of Thai-politics, small parties of self-interested power-groups & vote-deliverers, jostling for a position at the 'trough'.

Or perhaps another traffic-stopping tour of Bangkok will change the country forever ? Sounds unlikely, doesn't it !

Edited March 22, 2010 by Ricardo

[jonclark]

All this babbling about the same old topics of who is right and wrong. Both are right and both are wrong. No such thing as black and white in politics.

The point here is that next saturday we can expect more of the same!! This is going to inconvienience a lot of people who have lives to live and need to get out and about. I think if this happens then you can expect far worse gridlock next saturday and tempers getting frayed. It wouldn't surprise me to see a counter demonstration held at the same time.

Hopefully this announcement is just a barganing ploy by Jatuporn, as he sees Abhisit isn't budging on his precondition for talks. Hopefully it will amount to nothing and they will all sit down and discuss the future

[quiksilva]

good post way2muchcoffee, that's what the Government is saying, they don't want to enter negotiations with a guarantee that the house will be dissolved, because those conditions are necessary.

However, I believe that Reds don't really want to negotiate a truce, they want elections to be run just like they have always been run, because they know how to play that game.

As always, its not about the little guys, its all about money and power. Money and power is, of course every politician's end game, regardless of the party (albeit save a few public figureheads), the difference between them is a matter of the degree of greed and to some extent their vision.

[phuketrichard]

are they all going home and then coming back for saturday?? seems like alot of travel to me and i doubt it will happen.

[Mitker]

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

No insult here.

Most of the sympathizers have very serious concerns to be addressed in their daily life. The big problem is the total inadequacy between their opportunistic leaders and their genuine needs. It's obvious that these people are eager the better conditions. The problem is the tricky game of these who lead them.

A balanced future for Thailand goes through more popular welfare, more education, more health care. No through media control, systematic corruption, interests conflict and abuse of power.

You'll say that's precisely what they say they want? I'll answer you: remember Mr T years? The picture was pretty dark.

Desperately waiting for genuine political leaders with a vision for their people. Not for them, using the people.

You wise man didn't mention the "Terror" years following the revolution. There's a 3rd way between status quo and erratic transition.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Mitker

[animatic]

Reds rallies peaked somewhere at 100.000. Wow, impressive crowd...

But in a country of 60+ million, it means 1 out of 600 habitants was in the street that day.

If any advocates it's enough to oust a government, then he must be ready to see 15 different governments per week.

Thailand has indeed a human potential for about 2 similar protests per day (60M/100K/365days) if you spread them all over the year.

I know I round a little, that toddlers are hardly expected to rally and that for each demonstrator there may be several sympathisers but the rationale remains.

ps: actually, the real question is: except Who-We-Know, who's ready to buy so many protesters for the next one?

Your dear Yellows are even less and do not represent more than 5% of the population (I don't want to insult Thai people telling yellow are more than 5%) but they managed to invade the house of Government, the airports, force a new alliance. This was undemocratic.

Just make fresh elections, we'll see.

0.149% of the population at best.

One in 670 inhabitants.

669 are not complaining like this

One in 280 voters from the last election.

Seems like 279 are not having an issue worth tramping to Bangkok for.

That was big rally best case,

currently it is.

30,000 hardcores still marching is ;

less than 0.045 % or the population

only 0.107% of the 28 mil. voters from last election.

In ABAC polling situations this is statistically less than the variation tolerances.

Or a this rally is LESS THAN the statistical null.

One in 2233 residents.

One in 933 voters from last election.

In perspective.

Edited March 22, 2010 by animatic

[elcent]

Endless comments about events and people.

Why not discuss about ideas?

[anotherpeter]

I assume it will go to different locations than last Saturday.

If they go to the same locations they would probably get less support, since:

1) the people out last Saturday have seen the parade, so won't bother getting out to see it again.

2) the people who's businesses and lives were affected would probably get out to abuse the reds more.

If they go to new locations they will get similar "support" ... that is, people who actually support them, people that come out to watch the parade, people who just happened to be there, people who tried to get away but couldn't because of the traffic. But the reds will call it support regardless.

[givenall]

Reds rallies peaked somewhere at 100.000. Wow, impressive crowd...

But in a country of 60+ million, it means 1 out of 600 habitants was in the street that day.

If any advocates it's enough to oust a government, then he must be ready to see 15 different governments per week.

Thailand has indeed a human potential for about 2 similar protests per day (60M/100K/365days) if you spread them all over the year.

I know I round a little, that toddlers are hardly expected to rally and that for each demonstrator there may be several sympathisers but the rationale remains.

ps: actually, the real question is: except Who-We-Know, who's ready to buy so many protesters for the next one?

Your dear Yellows are even less and do not represent more than 5% of the population (I don't want to insult Thai people telling yellow are more than 5%) but they managed to invade the house of Government, the airports, force a new alliance. This was undemocratic.

Just make fresh elections, we'll see.

Don’t forget that the Yellow were really organized by the rich and the Military faction. This is not a democracy and you don’t have to have the majority jut the bigger power.

Reds have to do more than just march. If the so called were worried they would be out right now to neutralize so called Red. After all this is Thailand and this is not a politic based on popular idea

[givenall]

are they all going home and then coming back for saturday?? seems like alot of travel to me and i doubt it will happen.

I hope they go someplace else (may be Isan ). I can’t take another 3 4 hr of noise and traffic jam again in my area.

Same thing for the entire merchant which lost a lot of customers around the route

[granuaile]

The reds haven't worked out how to get a reaction from the government, so they keep on pressing.

They got a few people out waving at them on the weekend, so they think there is support there??

For a city of 10 million people, quite a few who come from the north/north east, you would think they would have got a couple of million out on the streets supporting them.

But, no. They even got people abusing them in some areas.

I think next week there will be even more abusing them.

When they waved at me I waved back, when they shook my hand I went along, but did noit mean I supported their cause. A lot of people in this area seemed to though, but an equal number seemed indifferent. Some did not seem happy but said nothing. It sounded like some heckling but I am not sure.

I agree they want to push buttons to make the government look bad, something they haven't yet been able to do.

[quiksilva]

Endless comments about events and people.

Why not discuss about ideas?

If you want to start a thread to discuss ideas that we can not implement and will never be heard by the people who matter, go ahead. This thread is about an event.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Endless comments about events and people.

Why not discuss about ideas?

Go on the other thread "Red Shirts have declared Class war".

[granuaile]

I assume it will go to different locations than last Saturday.

If they go to the same locations they would probably get less support, since:

1) the people out last Saturday have seen the parade, so won't bother getting out to see it again.

2) the people who's businesses and lives were affected would probably get out to abuse the reds more.

If they go to new locations they will get similar "support" ... that is, people who actually support them, people that come out to watch the parade, people who just happened to be there, people who tried to get away but couldn't because of the traffic. But the reds will call it support regardless.

It may have been bad for some businesses, especially those patronized by farang and the larger malls, but I don't think it was bad for local businesses. Here where I live, a lot of the shop keepers seemed supportive, as well as rthe vendors, and many were doing brisk business. The redshirts were passing out water to the locals and one local was passing out tissues to the passing redshirts. I went into the Family Mart because my camera batteries when kaput, and they were busier than I ever see them.

I don't dislike the redshirts, I don't agree with them, but I don't dislike them, and it might be unwise to discount the support they may have. As a farang I wouldn't take a stance if it was a yellow-shirt march either,....

[shawndoc]

Once again, congrats to the Red Shirts for keeping things peaceful. And while the blood thing was nasty and wrong, it was at least a non-violent act that succeeded in getting them some international press (although perhaps not the type they wanted).

However they don't seem to have sort of end game. Its clear they aren't going to get what they originally wanted, or what they pretended to want. What do they hope to achieve?

[connel707]

Bring me any red shirt able to prove he/she knows Exim is not an exotic dish and Temasek a DIY brand and I will start to listen to him/her.

Until then, I just see them as manipulated folks serving the cause of a greedy, dictator-to-be billionaire on the run. They simply do not understand the game they are used for.

My factory staff is tuned all day long on a red shirts radio. Speechs would make you feel like you were listening to a Rwandese radio days before it went ugly.

Not good to insult the people.

By the way, when we, French, made the revolution in 1789, I'm pretty sure that some wise men like you told "the populace will never be able to manage the country". But we did! With difficulties yes but France is now a proud country with a stable government.

Same in USA when they expelled the British.

What are you Croaking about..??????

[Mosha]

The French Government wanted to unite with the UK after the 2nd World War. Britain turned them down, so don't go extolling the stability of a French government.

[Wolfie]

And this thread is not about French (or UK) politics - lets keep it on topic please

[hammered]

All part of attempts to induce a reaction. Foreign analysis over the weekend that Abhisit had the upper hand by just sitting around doing nothing and waiting the rally out is hard to fault. Like the PAD the reds need an event but cant directly create it themselves so they will continue to goad.

Bangkokians will become angry at some point even if they arent now, which isnt really clear

There will also be lots of other attempts to wind up the military etc

[beejoir]

The had a semi good run of form, ok the blood thing pushed it a little too far but I'm sure the villagers liked it, but now call it a day, and go and work on making a legitimate party to contest the next election.

S I M P L E