Thaksin Passes The Point Of No Return : Anand

[anotherpeter]

Well, while history looks at Anand's time as PM favorably I think that's primarily because it was compared to the horrendous governments before him. For all his aristocratic and gentlemanly qualities, I'm not sure he's a democrat-at-heart. That's all fine so far, but the lack of a strong democracy in this country guarantees a very bumpy ride ahead. And we're out of time to establish a strong democracy, where elected government can rule without worrying about coups from the military or the judiciary.

I don't think we are out of time yet. There is still a lot to do, but these things don't happen overnight.

I hope and pray that we're not out of time. With big changes ahead, I fear that only a very solid and strong democracy can weather those changes. A weak and corrupt system on the other hand is a recipe for disaster, and there's really no telling how far Thailand can fall.

To be honest the system probably never was that strong to begin with, just the absence of coups and a democratically drafted constitution painted a nice picture. In the end though that meant nothing. I now think the coup was a symptom of Thailand not being a strong democracy to begin with, more than a cause.

The last coup was because of the corruption. That's still there, and it's ingrained in Thai society, so still a chance of more coups.

How do you get a democratically drafted constitution when you don't have a strong democracy, when a lot of Thais don't understand democracy (all Thais, no sides), and when a lot of those in powerful positions (local, regional, national) abuse democracy.

Edited March 26, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Thai at Heart]

Well, while history looks at Anand's time as PM favorably I think that's primarily because it was compared to the horrendous governments before him. For all his aristocratic and gentlemanly qualities, I'm not sure he's a democrat-at-heart. That's all fine so far, but the lack of a strong democracy in this country guarantees a very bumpy ride ahead. And we're out of time to establish a strong democracy, where elected government can rule without worrying about coups from the military or the judiciary.

I don't think we are out of time yet. There is still a lot to do, but these things don't happen overnight.

I hope and pray that we're not out of time. With big changes ahead, I fear that only a very solid and strong democracy can weather those changes. A weak and corrupt system on the other hand is a recipe for disaster, and there's really no telling how far Thailand can fall.

To be honest the system probably never was that strong to begin with, just the absence of coups and a democratically drafted constitution painted a nice picture. In the end though that meant nothing. I now think the coup was a symptom of Thailand not being a strong democracy to begin with, more than a cause.

The last coup was because of the corruption. That's still there, and it's ingrained in Thai society, so still a chance of more coups.

How do you get a democratically drafted constitution when you don't have a strong democracy, when a lot of Thais don't understand democracy (all Thais, no sides), and when a lot of those in powerful positions (local, regional, national) abuse democracy.

Corruption was one of the reasons behind the last coup. I am not denying that Thaksin carried out policy corruption.

One only has to see how the constitution was changed to see that there was also a feeling that at this period of Thai history, there should not be a government with an absolute majority. I concur with Winnie, that the entire system was never meant to be that strong anyway. This is why the population has almost come to look upon a coup as some kind of benevolent get out clause. Whenever something contentious happens, the army come to save the day and feather their own nest at the same time of course.

I think there is a strong understanding about what "Thai" democracy is among the people, and it has an inherent part of it that involves the army, the elite of Bangkok, rural godfathers, patronage, corruption, vote buying, political scandal and inactivity by ALL parties. This is what Thai's expect of their democracy. The same old faces with the same old crap. Admittedly, Thaksin did find a new bunch of nationwide constituents who didn't have much of a voice before, so the rural poor must be added to this list now.

This does not mean that democracy doesn't work, it is just that the system has been subverted over the years (not just by Thaksin) to suit the whims of those of the day and has become "Thaionized" into something that is not really democracy.

Well, this is Abhisit's opportunity to get out his note pad and make his "I have a dream speech". If nothing else he can leave Thai politics with a strengthened and renewed understanding of democracy.

[shawndoc]

How do you get a democratically drafted constitution when you don't have a strong democracy, when a lot of Thais don't understand democracy (all Thais, no sides), and when a lot of those in powerful positions (local, regional, national) abuse democracy.

What would you change with the current constitution?

My biggest complaint (and it may just be misperception on my part) is that it is too easy to change.

[anotherpeter]

Corruption was one of the reasons behind the last coup. I am not denying that Thaksin carried out policy corruption.

One only has to see how the constitution was changed to see that there was also a feeling that at this period of Thai history, there should not be a government with an absolute majority. I concur with Winnie, that the entire system was never meant to be that strong anyway. This is why the population has almost come to look upon a coup as some kind of benevolent get out clause. Whenever something contentious happens, the army come to save the day and feather their own nest at the same time of course.

I think there is a strong understanding about what "Thai" democracy is among the people, and it has an inherent part of it that involves the army, the elite of Bangkok, rural godfathers, patronage, corruption, vote buying, political scandal and inactivity by ALL parties. This is what Thai's expect of their democracy. The same old faces with the same old crap. Admittedly, Thaksin did find a new bunch of nationwide constituents who didn't have much of a voice before, so the rural poor must be added to this list now.

This does not mean that democracy doesn't work, it is just that the system has been subverted over the years (not just by Thaksin) to suit the whims of those of the day and has become "Thaionized" into something that is not really democracy.

Well, this is Abhisit's opportunity to get out his note pad and make his "I have a dream speech". If nothing else he can leave Thai politics with a strengthened and renewed understanding of democracy.

Agreed.

There is still a way to go. They still need to move forward.

IMHO, they can only move forward without Thaksin.

The poor a more aware of democracy, and now have a voice and know how to use it. The army, elite of Bangkok AND the rural elite ("godfathers") have to listen to them and look after them. That is the ONLY good thing Thaksin has done.

ALL of the people of Thailand still need to learn more about democracy and they need to get rid of corruption at all levels of society.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The last coup was because of the corruption.

There we disagree. I believe the last coup was about a feudal clique clinging to power. All coups anywhere are about power. Don't take my word for it though: look at the Mickey Mouse legal charges brought forward so far, in the last THREE YEARS.. Anything there worth a military coup? And then, people like Suthep are high and dry in the government again.. If corruption ranked anywhere on anyone's radar then he most definitely wouldn't be in the government..

Even the coup makers themselves didn't talk about corruption. It was to save the nation of rural protesters coming to Bangkok to cause trouble. Remember that? The Nation printed it so obviously that must be true.

Edited March 26, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Thai at Heart]

The last coup was because of the corruption.

There we disagree. I believe the last coup was about a feudal clique clinging to power. All coups anywhere are about power. Don't take my word for it though: look at the Mickey Mouse legal charges brought forward so far, in the last FOUR YEARS.. Anything there worth a military coup? And then, people like Suthep are high and dry in the government again..

I tend to agree with you.

Corruption was a very convenient excuse. I mean, if corruption in Thai politics was justification for a coup, would there have been any sitting parliaments in the last 80 odd years?

[anotherpeter]

The last coup was because of the corruption.

There we disagree. I believe the last coup was about a feudal clique clinging to power. All coups anywhere are about power. Don't take my word for it though: look at the Mickey Mouse legal charges brought forward so far, in the last THREE YEARS.. Anything there worth a military coup? And then, people like Suthep are high and dry in the government again.. If corruption ranked anywhere on anyone's radar then he most definitely wouldn't be in the government..

Even the coup makers themselves didn't talk about corruption. It was to save the nation of rural protesters coming to Bangkok to cause trouble. Remember that? The Nation printed it so obviously that must be true.

76 billion baht is probably worth a coup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Thai_cou...ses_of_the_coup

"Two months after the coup, the junta issued a white paper identifying many reasons for the coup, including corruption, abuse of power, lack of integrity, interference in the checks and balances system, human rights violations, and destroying the unity of the people."

Here is a good list of the things Thaksin did as reasons for the coup:

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/22/hea...es_30019578.php

EDIT: Excessive corruption is a pretty good reason.

Edited March 26, 2010 by anotherpeter

[shawndoc]

At some point, the corruption gets to the point where you just can't look the other way. Even in Thailand.

[mca]

"Two months after the coup, the junta issued a white paper identifying many reasons for the coup, including corruption, abuse of power, lack of integrity, interference in the checks and balances system, human rights violations, and destroying the unity of the people."

Of course sadly and ironically the majority of the above could equally be applied to the coup makers themselves.

Really Thailand should just have 2 sets of coup makers who take it in turns to overthrow each other.

[anotherpeter]

"Two months after the coup, the junta issued a white paper identifying many reasons for the coup, including corruption, abuse of power, lack of integrity, interference in the checks and balances system, human rights violations, and destroying the unity of the people."

Of course sadly and ironically the majority of the above could equally be applied to the coup makers themselves.

Really Thailand should just have 2 sets of coup makers who take it in turns to overthrow each other.

Well, you might expect that of an army, but not of a "democratic" prime minister.

[Thai at Heart]

At some point, the corruption gets to the point where you just can't look the other way. Even in Thailand.

So the judgement is entirely subjective isn't it. By your definition a certain amount is acceptable, until a certain tipping point is reached and then it is justified? Of course, no one would ever say that someone's subjective judgement could be changed by a little back hander here or there.

I take the view that none of the major protagonists in this mess are above reproach, the coup makers and PAD included. Thaksin will get his just desserts by the letter of the law (or new one's also), however, your statement proves that there is a certain uneven handedness in the way the system works in Thailand. It is just a matter of how high your head sticks above the parapet as to whether it gets chopped off or not.

Either the law applies or it doesn't.

[moresomekl]

"......I believe that great leaders overrule their security service when the interest of the country is at stake .

Besides the red shirts do not appear to me as beeing violent people , even though Mr T has been heard inciting

violence . If they were violent there would have been many deads by now .

I know about K. Anand time in office and agree with you.

Well the result of Mr Abhisit "foresight" is plain for all to see, I have nothing much to add . Do not underestimate the determination and arguably popular support that the red shirts have in the county as a whole . While they may be the minority its certainly is a far larger one then 0.139% . "

Quote: "......I believe that great leaders overrule their security service when the interest of the country is at stake."

My comment: Nice theory, but totally lacking recognition of the actual on the ground severe realities and long-term (many decades) of diverse and nasty history of the whole situation. I'm sure PM Abhisit would like to be sitting in a whole different scenario and therefore be able to take a whole different approach, but he's not.

Quote: "......Besides the red shirts do not appear to me as being violent people , even though Mr T has been heard inciting violence . If they were violent there would have been many deads by now .

My Comment: Burned buses in the streets, parked a gas tanker in a high volume residential area and threaten to blow it up, tried to pull Abhisit out of his car, actually severely beat up Abhisit's driver, sent visiting respected dignitaries from other Asean countries running for their lives, threaten to assassinate the PM and his family, encourage people to bring petrol bombs to Bkk, hundreds of speeches of very severe hatred against the PM and many others, CM group beat up monks at prayer, CM group have roughed up numerous other people, various country red shirt based groups (Udon, Ubon, etc.) threatened severe violence and severely intimated many people, refuse to allow anybody other than red shirts to speak publicly, and have beat people up. And more...

You say non violent, non threatening, peaceful rational people, supporting freedom of speech, supporting democratic principles. What Television do you watch?

Quote: "....Do not underestimate the determination and arguably popular support that the red shirts have in the county as a whole . While they may be the minority its certainly is a far larger one then 0.139% . "

My comment: Yes there is a need for change, to ensure that everything is more fair and more equitable for all Thais, all Thais share the wealth, all Thais have better opportunities in life and equal justice regardless of family name and affiliations. And nothing will change until there is a credible force to push for these changes. And the key word is credible! And the current people (I hesitate to say politicians) who make up the PT party and others (mostly incapable thieves) will work hard to stop any such changes, because it would prevent them from further rampant feeding from the trough (the budget cash).

But the red shirts (as a whole group) have no credibility under any measure as a valid logical structured focused knowledgeable movement (they charge their war-cry and their demands every 5 minutes) and none of the current leaders have any credibility whatever and have painted themselves as not much more than thugs and liars, they want a convicted highly corrupt man pardoned, a man who should be behind bars for crimes against humanity) and they want a return to a constitution which makes vote buying easy.

Please understand that i was talking about current protest , not the previous ones . I watch mainly foreign news , not thai news .

I would not be so extreme as you are about Thaksin but he is a convicted felon + part of his fortune has been confiscated and i think its richly deserved . We have to trust the thai courts

I see an emerging trend by the movement to distance itself from Thaksin as compared to two weeks ago , and i agree with you that they dont know exacltly what they want , short of disolving the parliament .

The new constitution makes it impossible or very difficult to buy votes but it does not garantee stability in the thai context .

[Nuchanart]

"Thailand: Why the Reds Are in Revolt

By Hannah Beech / Bangkok

A telecom billionaire who has spent much of his self-exile in Dubai, Thaksin is an unlikely savior for a legion of bus commuters. He is everything a Thai farmer or construction worker is not: a pale-complexioned ethnic Chinese with nary a callus on his palms. (Abhisit fits that category too.)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...75217-2,00.html

Very good article. I hope this is not a paid ads by Thaksin.

However, The Time is a media that cannot be bought.

[anotherpeter]

"Thailand: Why the Reds Are in Revolt

By Hannah Beech / Bangkok

A telecom billionaire who has spent much of his self-exile in Dubai, Thaksin is an unlikely savior for a legion of bus commuters. He is everything a Thai farmer or construction worker is not: a pale-complexioned ethnic Chinese with nary a callus on his palms. (Abhisit fits that category too.)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...75217-2,00.html

Very good article. I hope this is not a paid ads by Thaksin.

However, The Time is a media that cannot be bought.

But Thaksin knew how to tap into a voter base long underexploited by traditional Thai politicians. His populist policies, which included heavily subsidized health care and microfinancing schemes, delighted the lower classes and helped Thaksin win the largest electoral mandate in Thai history. Economists have critiqued the loan projects, pointing out that much of the money was spent on satisfying consumption cravings, as opposed to building businesses, thereby creating unsustainable debt loads. Long-term reality mattered less, however, than short-term perception.

Thaksin knew how to EXPLOIT the voter base. It was the short-term perception that mattered, until Thaksin was able to consolidate his power at the top. If he'd been in power a couple more years, the poor would have begun to realise this, but it would have been too late.

[Thai at Heart]

"Thailand: Why the Reds Are in Revolt

By Hannah Beech / Bangkok

A telecom billionaire who has spent much of his self-exile in Dubai, Thaksin is an unlikely savior for a legion of bus commuters. He is everything a Thai farmer or construction worker is not: a pale-complexioned ethnic Chinese with nary a callus on his palms. (Abhisit fits that category too.)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...75217-2,00.html

Very good article. I hope this is not a paid ads by Thaksin.

However, The Time is a media that cannot be bought.

But Thaksin knew how to tap into a voter base long underexploited by traditional Thai politicians. His populist policies, which included heavily subsidized health care and microfinancing schemes, delighted the lower classes and helped Thaksin win the largest electoral mandate in Thai history. Economists have critiqued the loan projects, pointing out that much of the money was spent on satisfying consumption cravings, as opposed to building businesses, thereby creating unsustainable debt loads. Long-term reality mattered less, however, than short-term perception.

Thaksin knew how to EXPLOIT the voter base. It was the short-term perception that mattered, until Thaksin was able to consolidate his power at the top. If he'd been in power a couple more years, the poor would have begun to realise this, but it would have been too late.

And now the nub of the problem. The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan. For the first time, the poor whether they are being misled or not have the balls to protest. Next step I can see is if they can't bring them to Bangkok, they will get them to protest up country in the rural cities.

I somehow they wouldn't find it hard to get 100k in each of the major cities of the North East and the North.

[Nuchanart]

He is so good looking. Don't we all just love him, especially the army boys.

And the song is great too.

[anotherpeter]

And now the nub of the problem. The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan. For the first time, the poor whether they are being misled or not have the balls to protest. Next step I can see is if they can't bring them to Bangkok, they will get them to protest up country in the rural cities.

I somehow they wouldn't find it hard to get 100k in each of the major cities of the North East and the North.

EVERY PARTY until the TRT had little or no time for Isaan. But Thaksin knew how to EXPLOIT it for HIS OWN gains.

What is good about the MISLED having the balls to protest? They have been misled, and are being misled, into thinking that Thaksin did good things for them. What did Thaksin do that was good for them?

It is great that the reds have kept their protests peaceful. That has helped them raise the issues about the plight of the poor, which is fantastic.

Now, go back home and let the government do something about it. If they don't do anything, then vote them out in the next election.

[eggomaniac]

... [boy you been a messin, where you shouldn't be messin] these boots are made for walking

I see someone else caught that little slip.

TH

and there are other 'clues' that speak volumes, though we have to wink and nod

[bacchanal]

He is so good looking. Don't we all just love him, especially the army boys.

And the song is great too.

quite a stark contrast from the red ravings that typify the "passes the point of no return"

[manjara]

"Thailand: Why the Reds Are in Revolt

By Hannah Beech / Bangkok

A telecom billionaire who has spent much of his self-exile in Dubai, Thaksin is an unlikely savior for a legion of bus commuters. He is everything a Thai farmer or construction worker is not: a pale-complexioned ethnic Chinese with nary a callus on his palms. (Abhisit fits that category too.)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...75217-2,00.html

Very good article. I hope this is not a paid ads by Thaksin.

However, The Time is a media that cannot be bought.

But Thaksin knew how to tap into a voter base long underexploited by traditional Thai politicians. His populist policies, which included heavily subsidized health care and microfinancing schemes, delighted the lower classes and helped Thaksin win the largest electoral mandate in Thai history. Economists have critiqued the loan projects, pointing out that much of the money was spent on satisfying consumption cravings, as opposed to building businesses, thereby creating unsustainable debt loads. Long-term reality mattered less, however, than short-term perception.

Thaksin knew how to EXPLOIT the voter base. It was the short-term perception that mattered, until Thaksin was able to consolidate his power at the top. If he'd been in power a couple more years, the poor would have begun to realise this, but it would have been too late.

And now the nub of the problem. The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan. For the first time, the poor whether they are being misled or not have the balls to protest. Next step I can see is if they can't bring them to Bangkok, they will get them to protest up country in the rural cities.

I somehow they wouldn't find it hard to get 100k in each of the major cities of the North East and the North.

The current government is doing a lot for the dirt poor farmer. Whether that is directly because of Thaksins previous policies and success in exploiting them, is debateable, but you cannot say that nothing is being done for them. Sure they don't get the money to go and spend on 'consumption cravings', but that's not a bad thing.

Education and assistance for the elderly are pretty good places to start and will probably have a better long term effect than the TRT populist policies.

The Democrats should set a timetable for elections based on a normal term of office (maybe they already did). Then everyone should go home and spend their time working out what policies will be best for thailand, not their own pockets.

And Thaksin should just stay in Dubai...if they let him!

[shawndoc]

At some point, the corruption gets to the point where you just can't look the other way. Even in Thailand.

So the judgement is entirely subjective isn't it. By your definition a certain amount is acceptable, until a certain tipping point is reached and then it is justified?

That's not what I said. In my opinion no corruption should be allowed and anti-corruption laws would be vigorously enforced.

But I wasn't talking about my belief of what should be allowed. I was talking about the situation as it happened. I feel a big reason for the coup is that Thaksin had gotten so obviously corrupt it was becoming impossible for the Thai people to look the other way. He dissolved the parliament because they were trying to investigate him (and his party was in power!) and was dragging his feet on holding new elections. He was rocking the boat by being so obvious about it, the military decided to step in and shut him down before the people got too upset and their anger at Thaksin spilled over to the other corrupt leaders of the country.

Remember when the coup took place it wasn't greeted with protest and anger. People were coming out to give flowers to the soldiers and take photos with them.

By acting when they did, the military avoided being lumped in as "just as corrupt as Thaksin and the TRT" to being viewed (at least for a short time) as the guys who were there to clean things up.

They of course botched a lot of things up, and their taint will haunt any non TRT/PPP/PTP party that comes to power for at least a few more election cycles.

[scorecard]

And now the nub of the problem. The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan. For the first time, the poor whether they are being misled or not have the balls to protest. Next step I can see is if they can't bring them to Bangkok, they will get them to protest up country in the rural cities.

I somehow they wouldn't find it hard to get 100k in each of the major cities of the North East and the North.

EVERY PARTY until the TRT had little or no time for Isaan. But Thaksin knew how to EXPLOIT it for HIS OWN gains.

What is good about the MISLED having the balls to protest? They have been misled, and are being misled, into thinking that Thaksin did good things for them. What did Thaksin do that was good for them?

It is great that the reds have kept their protests peaceful. That has helped them raise the issues about the plight of the poor, which is fantastic.

Now, go back home and let the government do something about it. If they don't do anything, then vote them out in the next election.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE: "What did Thaksin do that was good for them?"

This question has been asked many times but i've never seen any really detailed answers with tangible items. We always hear the smokescreen stuff about "He gave them hope", (in fact he tricked them into false hope).

And there's another group - taxi drivers. He promised them houses, new cars, free loans, massive rise in flag fall and kilometre rate etc. All of this is /was in fact unethical, all of society should benefit from legislation and policy.

Not so long ago I came across a taxi driver here in BAagkok who spoke excellent English and he asked me what I thought about thaksin. I avoided his questions.

He then said 'don't worry, I hate thaksin, he is a cunning thief'. So I asked him how many taxi drivers had actually received houses, new cars, etc., and when was the rate going up? He laughed and said that thaksin keeps telling the drivers 'coming soon' but nothing had ever eventuated, and he promised these items again just before songkran last year.

So I asked him, 'are the drivers angry that nothing has been delivered?'

He laughed again and said 'they believe him'. He's their hero and they will never see it any different.

[Cayenne]

He is so good looking. Don't we all just love him, especially the army boys.

And the song is great too.

quite a stark contrast from the red ravings that typify the "passes the point of no return"

Oh I'm sure that Youtube is full of these Red shirt gems, all sprouting nonsense. The fact that they sometimes contradict each other or make absolutely no sense at all seems to be lost on their supporters. Funny how they all seem to want to dissolve parliament but no one can seem to agree what happens next.

[janderton]

... The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan...

incorrect.... taxes has been increased in Isaan area too

[rametindallas]

One thing this govt. is doing for the poor and middle class in this country is introducing property taxes. These taxes will mainly affect the wealthy, large landholders, the Amataya, who for decades, let their land sit idle and off the market, which keeps property values unnaturally high. Now, they will either have to pay tax or put the land into circulation. This new available land will then depress prices making land affordable to more people. Land will also have to be productive thereby helping the economy.

[Jingthing]

Yes property taxes are an excellent, progressive idea. I support that for Thailand. As I own real estate here, I assume I would also be taxed. I would be happy to pay that tax to increase the equality in Thailand. To the people who say anti-reds are that way over financial self interest, I say, you're totally wrong. A peaceful progressive reform movement led by morally credible leaders, and one that denounces Thaksin, would be very welcome indeed.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

... The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan...

incorrect.... taxes has been increased in Isaan area too

One could say some have cynical views around these parts. Even jaundiced.

The times they're a changin'

[Mario2008]

1 post referring to a non existing person named "toxin" deleted.

[animatic]

... The poor have lost their poster boy apparently by the coup makers and the PAD coming along and stirring up the pot, and they have been delivered Abhisit.

If I was a dirt poor farmer, I wouldn't see this as anything that is going to bring me any good whatsoever, so what do I have to lose by protesting. They have no empathy for a person (as well educated as he may be) like Abhisit. He has and his party have proven since time immemorial to have little or no time for Isaan...

incorrect.... taxes has been increased in Isaan area too

One could say some have cynical views around these parts. Even jaundiced.

The times they're a changin'

But the dirt poor are not the ones paying them taxes.

Except as costs handed down by the local puyais....

Which is the real issues, Bangkok needs to put the heavy thumb on the local country side puyais to

give the dirt farmers a bigger share of their hard earned profits. That is the 'class' that is MOST

doing harm to the simple Somchais working their plots.

Regardless of what might have been done by ALL political parties in the past,

it is generally acknowledged that it is a new game these days

and that Issan can never be forgotten again.

And the likely hood that, after Thaksin is gone, the Dems

will suddenly for get this demographic section is minuscule.

Oh, by the way,

people alive remember BEFORE the democratic party existed.

So "since time immemorial" is nothing but hyperbole.

Edited March 27, 2010 by animatic

[jdinasia]

Khun Anand is a very wise person .

In my opinion his views about Thaksin and what early election would do

sums it up .

What in my view Thailand needs is a strong executive

branch , entirely separated from the legislative branch (current elected parliament)

backed by a strong system of checks and balance answerable to HM .

Then the PM elected by all the people directly has time (3-4 years) to

do his job for the country without constant disruption by MP switching loyalties

17 coups since WWII , only one PM that could accomplish a full term

ppl in the street claiming that this or that governement is not legally elected

right or wrong , all these would stop

The system of Constitutional monarchy does not put a constrain on how

the governement respective branches work or are elected .

The british model may work in UK , it has not worked well

in Thailand .

But then maybe i miss something .

Anand did not mention "early" elections. He mentioned "elections" and noted they were due next year.

"Elections cannot resolve everything, but they may be helpful in accelerating the resolution of the problem. Just like the constitution does not resolve any problems in an automatic way."

Anand predicts that new polls will be held next year if the UDD fails to topple the government in the coming weeks. Abhisit could yet survive his full his term through to the end of 2011 if he focuses on improving the lives of farmers and the Thai economy continues to recover from the global economic crisis, he says.