TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) http://usdebtclock.org/ It is a mathematical fact that the USA is headed towards bankruptcy. The USA is currently paying 20% of its tax revenue towards interest payments on its debt. A debt that is still growing every year. Obama's ten year plan will see an increase in debt of 10 trillion USD. Around 2014, the government will start spending more on Social Security than it borrows... See the US government has been spending its citizens social security payments all of these years on other stuff and now the baby boomers are going to retire and be eligible for those payments. American's savings rates are at the lowest since the end of World War II. That is Federal Debt. States are also in debt. Estimates put the total debt per US citizen at around $350,000. For those of you planning to receive Social Security... 2 options... 1. you receive dollars that value have been shattered through inflation 2. you receive a smaller amount of money than you were supposed to, a number close to zero The USA currently has a 350 billion trade deficit. There are no realistic scenarios of reversal. 10% of US housing is bank controlled with more foreclosures on the way. Edited March 25, 2010 by TheItaliann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEEYEDTHAI Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 You knew I was felling a little blue today so,you just wanted to cheer me up right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrak Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 1) It is a mathematical fact that the USA is headed towards bankruptcy. Wrong all US debts are in US$ (except corporate). The US controls a printing press that can print an infinite amount of US$. 2) The USA is currently paying 20% of its tax revenue towards interest payments on its debt. This is totally untrue. In fact there is virtually no evidence that the US has been paying interest on its borrowings or even intends to out of taxpayers dollars. Every year it runs a large fiscal deficit. Taxpayers dollars do not even cover Government expenditure. What it does is borrow more each year to pay its interest payments and revenue shortfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherstuff1957 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 The US National Debt is owed to China, Japan, the UK, etc... If the value of the dollar collapses, the value of that debt also collapses. They (the lending countries) just can't afford to let the US dollar deflate or let the US go bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejah Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) if the dollar falls/fails wont it bring down other currencies? including the baht? Edited March 25, 2010 by deejah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 "How Long Before The Usd Is Trading For 10-15 Thb ?" yawwwnnnnn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEEYEDTHAI Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 1) It is a mathematical fact that the USA is headed towards bankruptcy. Wrong all US debts are in US$ (except corporate). The US controls a printing press that can print an infinite amount of US$. 2) The USA is currently paying 20% of its tax revenue towards interest payments on its debt. This is totally untrue. In fact there is virtually no evidence that the US has been paying interest on its borrowings or even intends to out of taxpayers dollars. Every year it runs a large fiscal deficit. Taxpayers dollars do not even cover Government expenditure. What it does is borrow more each year to pay its interest payments and revenue shortfall. Still not feeling better.Can't any of you whiz kids say something to cheer a boomer up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Never - only in the OP's dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 "The US controls a printing press that can print an infinite amount of US$." Someone has a strong grasp on economics! "What it does is borrow more each year to pay its interest payments and revenue shortfall." Oh, ok. Dunno what I was worried about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) The US National Debt is owed to China, Japan, the UK, etc... If the value of the dollar collapses, the value of that debt also collapses. They (the lending countries) just can't afford to let the US dollar deflate or let the US go bankrupt. Krugman recently had an interesting piece in the NYT along those lines. Edited March 25, 2010 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 "In 2015 alone, the estimated interest due - $533 billion - is equal to a third of the federal income taxes expected to be paid that year, said Charles Konigsberg, chief budget counsel of the Concord Coalition, a deficit watchdog group." This is around the time when the baby boomers start retiring and the government has to find the money it spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hopefully you're finding useful things to do (read: invest) with those dollars while it's still nicely overvalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 1. The UK is also going bankrupt. They will need their own bail out. 2. "China is also gobbling up stakes in mining projects for commodities like copper and iron across the globe. They've managed to snag a near-monopolistic hold on rare earth elements, which are crucial to alternative energy and other next-generation technologies. China is an emerging economic superpower. GDP growth, while probably manipulated by a few points, remains high. The U.S. is more reliant on them (and other lenders) than ever. China, on the other hand, is working hard to become less reliant on exports to the West. If they're successful, this will allow them to shed dollar assets and/or allow their currency to float against America's. Either way, the greenback will suffer. Such a move would drastically shift global trade balances. It should also benefit gold in two ways. First, price would be driven up as countries directly increase their precious metal holdings. Second, owners of gold would be protected from a depreciating dollar, as countries continue to diversify their assets. China, alongside its BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) fellows, is clearly positioning itself for a world in which the dollar is no longer king. Gold will play a big role in this shift." The world is moving away from the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw25rw Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 "The US controls a printing press that can print an infinite amount of US$."Someone has a strong grasp on economics! Judging by your propaganda, it isn't you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Btw, I forgot to mention that these 400-500billion dollar a year interest payments are only this small because US interest rates are so low...the us gov cant raise their interest rates or these amounts will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Its not their stake in US debt. Its their USD reserves. Almost every currency is backed by the dollar. And its the fact that Petro is priced in dollar. Those are seriously the only things keeping it afloat. Its just business. These men from the World's Nations don't love each other. Business, not personal. The world is surely going to move away from the USD. The US National Debt is owed to China, Japan, the UK, etc... If the value of the dollar collapses, the value of that debt also collapses. They (the lending countries) just can't afford to let the US dollar deflate or let the US go bankrupt. Krugman recently had an interesting piece in the NYT along those lines. Edited March 25, 2010 by TheItaliann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hi (again) Heng, I think you have family members in the gold industry in Thailand. Is any of the gold they sell in those shops 99.99%? On this website I see http://www.thaigold.info/th/ 99.99% 17,400 Baht But I am not interested in purchasing gold on paper, only in the physical form. Do you know anywhere to buy bars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Nah $ will be king far after your are long gone mate. Remember those that chuck the $ end up equally hurting themselves. I'd say Yanks have everyone buy their <deleted> - if yanks go down they will take everyone with them. (too late to diversify) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotlost Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 How many times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 How many times... All pretty boring retread year after year. I agree.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 The sky is falling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItaliann Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Guys, You can't run debts when you aren't making any money. At other times in the US history, they carried debts but were running large trade surpluses. They are now dead last. There is not a single comparable point in US history to where we are now. Stimulating conversation and rebuttal, btw. Edited March 25, 2010 by TheItaliann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 ^but you forget Europe is near bust and China will be next. So I don't see how the mentality - everyone is in the same boat so to speak. Let's not delude ourselves to think that they aren't. BTW - Yanks could say fk it and not give a penny more. The country is pretty self sufficient when it comes to natural resources. Sure would it mean a diff way of living why not? However like I said I don't think it will ever come to that because this is a world based economy - you fk one power house over pretty good, you end up affecting us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 There was a poster not to long ago that thought the euro was going to tank. Both the USD & Euro are very unlikely to tank. I think the Thai baht will be forced to be devalued long before any western's currency(maybe besides Greece at the moment). A cold day in hel_l ..........Maybe but really doubtful. As mentioned before China is holding a lot of U.S. debt now & I think they would do everything in their power to insure that further write offs are minimized! I don't think I would bet on the USD tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Moved to banking and finance/business forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) 1) It is a mathematical fact that the USA is headed towards bankruptcy. Wrong all US debts are in US$ (except corporate). The US controls a printing press that can print an infinite amount of US$. 2) The USA is currently paying 20% of its tax revenue towards interest payments on its debt. This is totally untrue. In fact there is virtually no evidence that the US has been paying interest on its borrowings or even intends to out of taxpayers dollars. Every year it runs a large fiscal deficit. Taxpayers dollars do not even cover Government expenditure. What it does is borrow more each year to pay its interest payments and revenue shortfall. Still not feeling better.Can't any of you whiz kids say something to cheer a boomer up? How's this: The US is probably capable of carrying all it's own debt if need be and has several tools, including mandating banks buy it as reserves to keep interest rates fairly low. Additionally, I expect protectionist measures are going to start to get more play soon. That ought to help balance of trade and savings, though probably not the global economy. Alternatively, maybe the cost of getting the US on board the global currency bandwagon as opposed to fighting it would be to give the $USD a weighting higher than it probably deserves. edit: and of course the VAT Tax is coming... Edited March 25, 2010 by lannarebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forethat Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 The US National Debt is owed to China, Japan, the UK, etc... If the value of the dollar collapses, the value of that debt also collapses. They (the lending countries) just can't afford to let the US dollar deflate or let the US go bankrupt. Considering that the US dept is based on consumption, the question is rather how long we can afford to hold US under the arms, and not the way you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) The US National Debt is owed to China, Japan, the UK, etc... If the value of the dollar collapses, the value of that debt also collapses. They (the lending countries) just can't afford to let the US dollar deflate or let the US go bankrupt. You are so conventional with that thought. China can definitely benefit from a devalued dollar in the near future and for a long time to go. Think long term not just how do we fix this to our advantage. The american advantage is over it is done the fatlady is getting ready to sing. Face reality donot hide your head in meaningless jargon. Real winners face reality and make decisions accordingly losers donot. Edited March 25, 2010 by lovelomsak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Around 2014, the government will start spending more on Social Security than it borrows... Actually the date was 2016 ...As of last night on the news here in the US they said it has moved up to this year 2010 due to the recession & job losses. Meaning that starting this year the SS program will start taking in less funds than it is paying out. Deficit spending should not be surprising to anyone at this stage. But like Abrak said many think no problem they/USA has a printing press or even computerized digits that can be added infinitely. Well yes but as they can absolutely guarantee payments, but they can not guarantee purchasing power. Additionally, I expect protectionist measures are going to start to get more play soon. That ought to help balance of trade and savings, though probably not the global economy. The current affair with China & Google could be the trip wire/excuse some are looking for to start that up with. Edited March 25, 2010 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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