Thai Peace Talks End Without Resolution

[webfact]

Peace Talks End Without Resolution

BANGKOK: -- Peace talks between the government and red shirt protesters ended without a resolution from both sides as the parties could not agree to a timeframe on which House dissolution should take place. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was accompanied by his secretary general Korbsak Sapavasu and veteran Democrat MP Chamni Sakdiset. The red shirt protesters were represented by Veera Musikapong, Jatuporn Prompan, and Dr. Weng Thojirakarn. The meeting started shortly after its scheduled time of 6 P.M. after the prime minister arrived back to Thailand from an official day trip to Brunei.

Talks started off with a question from the red shirt leaders as to whether the government had considered their proposition to dissolve the House of Representatives without 15 days. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva explained that, after consideration, the government has concluded that a 15-day deadline would be unrealistic and that the administration would be willing to further discuss a more appropriate timeframe with the protesters.

The two and a half hour talks then went back and forth between allegations from the red shirt protesters as to the legitimacy of this administration and why House dissolution could not take place within the 15 day timeframe. The Abhisit administration suggested at timeframe of 9 months, a far cry from the 2-week deadline set by the protesters.

Prime Minister Abhisit explained three reasons behind the 9 month suggestion. He said the government is willing to forgo its remaining 1 year and 9 months in its term, but would be willing to organize for a referendum on the charter amendments. After the referendum results, the current Parliament would enact those changes and then a dissolution would take place.

A second reason cited by the prime minister was the budget calendar. He claims that the current administration must pass the appropriate budget laws for next year’s fiscal budget otherwise the government would be in a bind when this year’s budget is dried up by October of this year.

The third reason Prime Minister Abhisit explained was the overall political atmosphere in Thailand. He said that, under the current circumstances, political parties wouldn’t be able to campaign properly and there is an overall sentiment of anger and misunderstandings among the public. Abhisit said that the referendum will help with this issue and the 9 month timeframe would be enough time for emotions to calm down.

However, throughout the discussion, the red shirt leaders refused to agree with the prime minister and reiterated that all the issues that the prime minister raised can be dealt with after House dissolution.

The talks ended without any confirmation as to whether they would be meeting again.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Old Man River]

Can anyone tell me where Weng got the 20 million supporters from?

Another ridiculous claim by the Red Shirts.

[givenall]

The funniest part of whole discussion was when the Red showed the picture of the soldiers during the emergency order from last April but forgot to mention the mess they created.

I wonder if they forgot to bring those pictures

[ThailandLovr]

That one Red Shirt leader must have gotten a stout kick under the table when he threw out the 2-3 months statement.

[webfact]

Thai PM, Red Shirts fail to agree after more talks

by Boonradom Chitradon

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told protesters Monday he would call polls before his term ends but he refused to meet their 15-day deadline, leading to stalemate after a second day of talks.

The televised negotiations, aimed at ending weeks of disruptive rallies in Bangkok by supporters of deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra, lasted two hours, with Abhisit offering the three Red Shirt representatives a compromise deal.

Abhisit said he was willing to call elections as early as the year's end, one year ahead of their due date in December 2011, but the two parties parted without agreement, with the premier offering fresh discussions on Thursday.

The Red Shirts said they would discuss whether to take up that offer.

"If you want my government... to call an election before our term has ended, no problem. But we have to talk..." Abhisit told the Red Shirt leaders.

"I have one year and nine months left, I want to see the economy improving, I want to see the rules of conduct and atmosphere in this country improving," he later added.

The red-dressed movement says the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

The group, supported mainly by Thailand's poor rural population, first gathered two weeks ago in the capital's government quarter, laying open again the country's wide social chasm following months of rival street campaigns.

Abhisit said that before any vote he wanted to hold a referendum on changes to the military-backed constitution that was brought in following the 2006 coup that ousted Thaksin from power, and which the Red Shirts oppose.

"Let's just say that the government is turning down our demand and that we refuse the government's offer," said Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan following Abhisit's proposal, although both sides appeared relaxed throughout the discussions, following tense talks on Sunday.

The Reds' populist political icon, former telecoms tycoon Thaksin, has egged on his supporters with near-daily speeches by videolink. He currently lives in Dubai to avoid a jail sentence for corruption.

The Reds began rallying on March 14 after a court ruling seized 1.4 billion dollars of Thaksin's fortune.

About 80,000 Red Shirts rallied on Saturday and forced troops to retreat from security posts in the heart of Bangkok. But police said only 16,000 protesters remained at their city rally ground on Monday.

The Reds have staged a series of dramatic stunts in their bid to force Abhisit out, picketing the army barracks where he is holed up and throwing their own blood at his office gates.

They say the British-born, Oxford-educated Abhisit is only able to lead his six-party coalition with military backing.

Abhisit had ruled out talks while the protesters remained on the streets, but changed his mind on Sunday, a move analysts said might hint at a weakening of his support by the establishment.

While the demonstrations have passed peacefully, security forces have taken few chances, putting a 50,000-strong force on the streets and using a strict security law to police the rallies.

Deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the cabinet would decide on Tuesday whether to extend again the Internal Security Act in Bangkok and two neighbouring provinces. It is due to expire on Tuesday.

Suthep said the law, which allows authorities to set up checkpoints, impose curfews and limit movement, could also be enforced to cover a regional summit being held at the weekend on the Thai coast to discuss Mekong river flows.

The capital was hit late Sunday by the latest in a series of minor explosions at politically significant sites and army buildings.

More than a dozen people have been hurt in grenade attacks in the last three days, including at the gate of the barracks where Abhisit has been living and working during the protests.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-29

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[anotherpeter]

The red-dressed movement says the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

oh no ... a parlimentary vote!! How dare they use democracy to get into power!!

[henryalleman]

What can be more dedemocratic than holding a referendum about the constitution, by refusing this the masks of the red shirts are faling. The have no interest in democratic reforms at all; Theuy only have one goal. making Thailand a peoples democratic state like Laos and other Zimbabwes. Only bring the puppet master back to power so the robbing can continue.

Abhisit proved this 2 weeks that hes a statesman and more and more Thai start to realize this.

I'm only afraid that this denial of sensible proposals of the government will be the beginning of more bomb attacks and violence. Because the puppet master and his cronies start to be desperate. They realize that the majority of Thai is not following them, they even start to be disgusted every day more and more about this hudlums. On the net there are dozens of newsletters circulating. They are very outspoken about what they think about the whole red shirts movement and of there leaders and Mr. T. in particular. The last few day's I receive a couple of them. The red shirts are not aware how they offend the nationalistis and royalistic majority of this country.

Further more, I'm rather sure that the red shirts (like most Thai) have no clue how a parliamtary democracy works. I hope Thailand and all of us will be saved from people like this in power.

Edited March 29, 2010 by henryalleman

[TheOldWolf]

I think PM played his card very well. He gave the reds a chance, but they didn´t take. To everyone that can think by themselves it is obius that the only thing they want is to get Thaksin back to power, it not was not obius before. PM deserves lot of credit and support for the way he handle this.

It may be some disapointment among a lot of red supporters and this might be little scary. What will be there next move?

[bertlamar]

My friend says that abhisit speaks a lot more logically. Not sure that works with upcountry folk sometimes.

I suspect if the weather we are getting now in rachada moves to ratchadamnoen a few red shirt people will be also doing a wet tee shirt contest also.

Its pouring with rain!!

- think red shirts should try to negotiate. If they agree in the middle in october then everyone goes home with something.

Except mr thaksin I suppose. Which is what this is about.

[Cayenne]

The reds want to negotiate a victory- any victory will do at this point. You ever wondered why Jatuporn wanted 2 weeks? Well in two weeks we will have Songkran and like it or not, the majority of the Red Shirts will be gone by then to celebrate back home. Problem is, after Songkran it will be the start of the rainy season and there is the matter of crops to tend too.

Bottomline- it will be hard to mobilize people to BKK again like this and they will have to wait another year.

[MaiChai]

Yeah, Songkran soon. Only one more week. What do you prefer, political flighting or celebrating Songkran with friends and family? The reds have lost the battle in my opinion. Government just needs to sit it out for next week and make sure no violence breaks out.

Feel sorry for the soldiers being victimised by cowards loping grenades at them. So much to peaceful demonstrating.

[brahmburgers]

The reds want to negotiate a victory- any victory will do at this point. You ever wondered why Jatuporn wanted 2 weeks? Well in two weeks we will have Songkran and like it or not, the majority of the Red Shirts will be gone by then to celebrate back home. Problem is, after Songkran it will be the start of the rainy season and there is the matter of crops to tend too.

Bottomline- it will be hard to mobilize people to BKK again like this and they will have to wait another year.

Agree. Timing is important. The Red tide is ebbing - has been since the demonstration started. Abhisit is in the power seat, and needs to appreciate he's holding most of the cards. He's in a strong position, and the Reds are wobbling, grasping at straws (the photos of police/army aiming guns at protesters last year, etc. ....fact is, no Reds were shot last year - that pours water on that assertion).

The Reds didn't agree to end of the year dissolution and elections. So, if they continue to hang tough and not give their approval, THEN ABHISIT DOESN'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY THAT OFFER! In other words, if there's no agreement, then Abhisit can go full term, and the elections will fall on December 2011, as they should.

[Chaimai]

Koo, is that you?[/b] Say, why is it that the Red Shirts are only interested in changing that portion of the constitution dealing with criminal amnesty and rules and prohibitions for violating election law? Just wondering.

Well spotted LRB.

[mazeltov]

Edited to add: If the dems go through with this and the reds accept it, Abhisit is taking a huge electoral gamble as a percentager of his voters wont like it and the dems could really underperform in the election. NPP will target the dems on this and split their vote to punish them.

yep, Abhisit got that goodbye SMS already.

"THE NATION: "Wanna read sms people sent 2 me? They said they won't vote for me if I dissolve House under pressure from just one group," PM said." TVF Updates

anyway, do you really think that could have a huge impact? the NPP will be there in 9 month and in 2 years too.

maybe the Dems could win new voters, more from the share of the moderate people in the middle.

and don't forget the Dems aren't the only party in this government.

[hammered]

Edited to add: If the dems go through with this and the reds accept it, Abhisit is taking a huge electoral gamble as a percentager of his voters wont like it and the dems could really underperform in the election. NPP will target the dems on this and split their vote to punish them.

yep, Abhisit got that goodbye SMS already.

"THE NATION: "Wanna read sms people sent 2 me? They said they won't vote for me if I dissolve House under pressure from just one group," PM said." TVF Updates

anyway, do you really think that could have a huge impact? the NPP will be there in 9 month and in 2 years too.

maybe the Dems could win new voters, more from the share of the moderate people in the middle.

and don't forget the Dems aren't the only party in this government.

They certainly arent the only party in the government. The Abhisit negotiation will give the NPP leverage to take Dem votes and damage them and the NPP will not mind the Dems underperforming as that will raise the spectre of the PAD again. There isnt really too much middle for the Dems to saqueeze imho and any gain they made there would likely be more than offset by losing the hardcore PADites. The other government parties I would guess are nowere near as ready for an election as the Dems who have fairly large support. BJT has to take PTP on in its heartland that means getting budgetry stuff out there. Ditto in all the other small government parties. Only PTP and the Dems are really ready as they are big and have a base. And the other parites are just as likely to target Dem voters as much as PTP ones.

[Publicus]

The funniest part of whole discussion was when the Red showed the picture of the soldiers during the emergency order from last April but forgot to mention the mess they created.

I wonder if they forgot to bring those pictures

This speaks directly to the cynical nature of Thaksin and his minions - that they're trying to shift blame for their own attempts at violent revolution to the government's defensive actions to counter the aggressive initiatives of the revolutionaries. The Reds' three stooges presentation of the photos reminds me of playing ice hockey - your counterpart on the other team bashes you in an illegal hit, then when you get up to head straight on towards him to return the favor the opponent shouts then you get tagged with a penalty for the the legitimate response. Except when the three stooges presented the photos they fully discredited themselves, as people in general know the Redshirts' reputation for violence, especially in the particular situation and settting of the Red initiated Pattaya and Songkran violence.

Dream on Reds. Abhisit has emerged from this unprecedented Political Reality Show, "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" as the adult who has the responsbility and perspective of having the interests of the entire nation on his desk both domestically and globally. Abhisit isn't being paid by anyone except the taxpayers themselves.

[lannarebirth]

The funniest part of whole discussion was when the Red showed the picture of the soldiers during the emergency order from last April but forgot to mention the mess they created.

I wonder if they forgot to bring those pictures

OK, here's the part I don't understand. The Red shirts claim there was a massacre by Army soldiers during the Songkran rioting. Has anyone come forward to say they're missing a father, a cousin a son a brother? Shouldn't they have a list of names of people "missing in action"? If they can't come up with that as a minimum to warrant further investigation it is very hard to take their highly inflammatory accusations seriously.

[animatic]

'The massacre' is just part of their spin that was invented when the Songkran riots

was lost so spectacularly badly, any thing to try and create a 'general uprising' against the government.

No one bought this spin back then,

and they are stuck with defending it, or come across as gross liars,

so they try it over and over... it's part of the Red Legend. Habit.

That they were stupid enough to try it now shows the paucity of their ideas.

Edited March 29, 2010 by animatic

[Publicus]

'The massacre' is just part of their spin that was invented when the Songkran riots

was lost so spectacularly badly, any thing to try and create a 'general uprising' against the government.

No one bought this spin back then,

and they are stuck with defending it, or come across as gross liars,

so they try it over and over... it's part of the Red Legend. Habit.

That they were stupid enough to try it now shows the paucity of their ideas.

More credit to Abhisit in his decision to meet with the three stooges because the three could and only did discredit themselves on live national tv, especially sitting across the table with the cool and rational Abhisit. Abhisit has stood up well under intense and immense pressures over the past year+ . By meeting with the individual three stooges Red leaders Abhisit has further cemented his standing against this single interest group. Abhisit effectively and responsively presented himself as the guy responsible to all Thais for the well being of their nation. This is counter the the three stoges who have the interests of one single person in their irresponsible, continually disruptive actions.

[Jingthing]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

[TheOldWolf]

Very qiut here tonight ! Maybe because the reds have run out of amunition, because of how well PM playes his cards?

[Jingthing]

Very qiut here tonight ! Maybe because the reds have run out of amunition, because of how well PM playes his cards?

Quiet is good. Maybe Thailand has reached a turning point towards SANITY.

[Publicus]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

Consider if we would Abhisit and Thaksin is a remote connection one on one direct discussion, debate and argument of the issues, differences and contentious claims and as to whom has the interests of the country in mind and at heart.

Actually, I don't know if I could take another scene of Thaksin weeping his lamentable situation and status as a global fugitive, whimpering his ingenuous love of the country and its people even while Abhisit continues to present his calm, cool and rational commitment to making Thailand a more reasonable and rational place in which all Thais matter, are deserving of respect whether in support or opposition to the government, and in which falang are welcome and could enjoy relatively equitable rights as foreigners enjoy in our own countries.

Do pardon my momentary lapse into fantasy as I know Thaksin neither could nor would dare to engage himself in a direct one on one face off with the far superior intellect Abhisit and the Abhisit who's shown a ton of political savvy in his handling of the Redshirts in the streets and their three soi dogs sent by Thaksin to speak to whom Thaksin himself dare not personally and directly engage.

[animatic]

"

Reds are disciplined. Yellows are mad and bloodlust," Weng said.

What a lovely quote from the lucid Dr. Weng,

after the whole world watched their blood bath stunt last week.

He gives off the visuals of a thought full Chinese man, till he opens his mouth...

Just talked with a woman in Boston, she watched that with amazement and disgust on TV.

I tried to call on some business, but before that could be addressed,

I had to explain in detail what all the blood was about...

and why there was this fat, wild eyed, shaved head,

guy screaming incomprehensibly in a red shirt.

Jutuporn for sure, made it across the pond...

but the imagery and message was really badly received...

Now I didn't preface this with anything besides "Hello. How are you?.

It just all came pouring out after;

What is going on over there???

As to Abhisit's performance; another fine job after a tiring trip.

No doubt most Thais see all 6 parties in a different light than before.

As said above Abhisits stock is rising, even if there is a election next winter.

The more grenades go off, the lower the Reds stock will sink...

Wait on Songkran... an anniversary that most Thais will

NOT associate favorably with the Red Shirts.

Edited March 29, 2010 by animatic

[JetsetBkk]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

Can't be bothered. Next thread, please.

[monkfish]

Where have you guys been?? good night

[TheOldWolf]

So where we go from here? Will the reds go home? Go riot? Sit still until Tuesday?

[lannarebirth]

So where we go from here? Will the reds go home? Go riot? Sit still until Tuesday?

I think they would be well advised to not raise much of a ruckus on Bangkok sreets during workdays.

[animatic]

Sitting still is not their style.

Jatuporn bounces about like a mental ricochet,

so who knows what his thought choochoo will lead him too.

Given too much time to think how badly they have played it,

they likely will think more pressure is good,.

[SurinLA]

The PM just came back from a 12 hours foreign trip(Brunei) and straigth to the meeting with those three. Where did he have dinner before the meeting? I cannot believe he gave so much time an energy to these RED leaders.

From what the 3 Reds made their demands, they seem to be the same message as what the Thai FOR THAI party is crying about the govt. Why don't they let these opposition party (TPT) represent them and talk to the PM in the house when those people are elected officials who work for the people, rather than coming out to protest and cause so much problems to Bangkok people and tourists.

I assume that this is the first time majority or many of the RED supporters have seen and listened to the current and REAL Thai PM after watching so much of the www.redshirttv.com and Taksin reality show.