Thai Peace Talks End Without Resolution

[Publicus]

My assumption that all volunteers would have a Health Check is based on experience dealing with Civil Servants and HR departments where all workers who are recruited to carry out duties involving physical exertion are given health checks. Of course you would now argue that all the 1000 "volunteers" thugs recruited by Abhisit are only used to gather intelligence and not to get involved in physical exertion (violence). But I remember last Songkrang when the Red Shirts said that the extreme violence at Victory Monument was the work of infiltrators, this was flatly denied by the Government. What are they going to say now, "We never infiltrate demonstrations with paid Government thugs?"

Physical exertion?? They are probably all sleeping on some chair somewhere, making a phone call every hour saying "yep, they're still here".

Have you seen any of these volunteers? Are any of them dressed in red? Are you on something?

Now you go from making it up as you go along to being childish or maybe it's just that you're extremely ill informed. The man whose picture you most probably carry in your wallet stated that he had recruited 1000 volunteers from the Ministry of the Interior - to reporters in front of TV cameras - at the start of the demonstrations. Does he also tell lies like the ones his Minister of Health has been caught telling?

One thing we can say for sure is that there is an unbroken umbilical cord between Thaksin and yourself.

Some forum contributors think there is a screw loose in the connection, but this may be going too far.

Thaksin apologists rarely go off on a complete tangent.

On the contrary, they have a mission to fulfil.

Thaksin has made 2 comments recently, which are interesting to say the least.

Firstly that it wasn't the reds undertaking the violence last Songkran

and secondly that the current government is riddled with unstable homosexuals.

Well, you are certainly making a game attempt to follow Thaksin's utterances re the violence.

And your fetishisation of HIV is just one step away from Thaksin's gay obsession.

Although you are being accused of being unstable, this is unfair.

An attack dog would be a fairer description of the positions held.

Good luck.

It is a thankless task.

Hear, hear! Well done.

[lookpapa]

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

No, it's not "my game". That's the game the reds are playing now in the "debate". It's not a bad game plan using it against Abhisit who'd like to distance himself from the military who are pulling his strings. The working class , especially in terms of Thailand don't need to be clarified, it's self explanatory. The people who've been exploited by the Elite.(as distinct from "elitist")

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

No wonder that a debate like that on TV is a no contest.

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Thai society is going through turmoil and it's long overdue. Thaksin was a bit different from the norm as he tried to do something for the rural poor when nobody else would. Certainly he did it because they were his constituents, ie. they voted him in and he benefited. So what else is new? Why don't the Democrats make the same people their constituents? The answer is obvious, the status quo might be changed somewhat and some people who are priviliged wouldn't like it.

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

Except that you fail to identify what sort of revolution you are advocating.

A bourgeois revolution? A proletarian revolution?

You don't know and you don't understand beyond probably wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt.

Or maybe you really do think there can be a revolution of the peasantry led by petty-bourgeois elements a la Cuba.

One thing is clear. Revolutions are not calibrated by greed, but by objective class forces none of which you comprehend.

Not that you are completely naive about the situation.

Re Thaksin in your meally-mouthed reference to 'ie. they voted him in and he benefited.' ie not only do you here explicitly support corruption, you support Thaksin's greed as well.

So much for a revolutionary position.

Some dumb Thaksin apologists put it out that they are supporting the lower classes, well some of them anyway.

However, the apologists are not opposed to the status quo (re class power) whatsoever

What they, in practice, are supporting, is a personalised split in the ruling class represented by Thaksin.

Any protestations to the contrary should be summarily dismissed for the dissembling it is.

Any revolution that changes the status quo is an event which can benefit Thailand. It doesn't matter if it comes from the bourgeois or the proletarian. For Thailand's sake it better come from the educated intelligentia/ business people who have a compassion for rural folk and willing to give up some ill gotten gains.

In this context one could say that Thaksin is doing exactly that as he's financing the reds. IMO the reds will have just as much impact on Thaksin if he comes back and gets re-instated as he on them. That's what Abhisit and his supporters are scared of, a shift away from the present power structure . In this scenario the military may have to be put in their places, that is a defence force instead of an internal security force and puppet masters to PMs.

You're badly mistaken if you think that a sweet talking Abhisit who learnt his skills of manipulations in Oxford is a true representative for all people in Thailand. A pretty boy bidding the policies of others (including the military) . Now he's trying to cuddle up to the rural folk by trying to buy them off with forgiving their debt. Last week he was telling the military to submit their military wish lists so they'll be appeased. The guy is so obvious Blind Freddy can see it. Except you.

Edited March 31, 2010 by lookpapa

[lannarebirth]

I think the assertion that "the military are pulling Abhisit's strings" is not accurate. If you have a medical problem and you go to a surgeon for advice he will recommend surgery, if there is a standoff between civilians and the military the military will respond with a military type reaction UNLESS they are taking their orders from a civilian government. They're trying it Abhisit's way. Yeah, maybe that could change in the future, but that's the only conclusion I think one can draw right now.

[animatic]

Any revolution that changes the status quo is an event which can benefit Thailand.

Nice try, no sale.

Graduated change harms fewer people.

Revolutions always hurt the poor in the near term, more than the rich in the long term.

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[brd199]

Poll: Government, UDD urged to negotiate

BANGKOK, 31 March 2010 (NNT) – A majority of people want the government and the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) to use negotiation means to end the ongoing political deadlock, according to the recent survey of Assumption University Research Center.

The survey, conducted in real time with 1,197 households across the country on 30 March 2010, shows most of the respondents are not confident that a house dissolution and fresh elections can solve the persisting political stalemate as proposed by the protest group.

42.4% of the respondents want the government to complete its four-year term.

27.2% of them prefer the government to dissolve the house within 15 days.

13.9% and 13.8% of the rest view that the House of Representatives should be dissolved in the next six and nine months respectively.

35.5% of the respondents view that the leadership of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has increased after the negotiation sessions with the UDD. 35.4% believe his leadership has remained unchanged while 26.2% say it has decreased.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303310009

[warfie]

former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra made a video-link call to the red-shirt protesters, claiming that he knew beforehand that the negotiation would fail.

Can we now add clairvoyance to all his other "talents"... or does that simply solidify his pathological liar "talent"?

TW has that 'gift' too.... always telling me afterwards that she 'knew' it was going to happen...

Not too difficult to be wise after the fact...

[monkfish]

According to Thai News there will be a 3rd round of talks.

Only 9 rounds left!

[Thai at Heart]

The government should not be using volunteers for this type of policing. Pure and simple.

Is there a lack of soldiers or policemen in the country?

[yoshiwara]

Any revolution that changes the status quo is an event which can benefit Thailand. It doesn't matter if it comes from the bourgeois or the proletarian. For Thailand's sake it better come from the educated intelligentia/ business people who have a compassion for rural folk and willing to give up some ill gotten gains.

In this context one could say that Thaksin is doing exactly that as he's financing the reds. IMO the reds will have just as much impact on Thaksin if he comes back and gets re-instated as he on them. That's what Abhisit and his supporters are scared of, a shift away from the present power structure . In this scenario the military may have to be put in their places, that is a defence force instead of an internal security force and puppet masters to PMs.

You're badly mistaken if you think that a sweet talking Abhisit who learnt his skills of manipulations in Oxford is a true representative for all people in Thailand. A pretty boy bidding the policies of others (including the military) . Now he's trying to cuddle up to the rural folk by trying to buy them off with forgiving their debt. Last week he was telling the military to submit their military wish lists so they'll be appeased. The guy is so obvious Blind Freddy can see it. Except you. [/b]

It is appalling that here we have a forum contributor who does not know the difference between a bourgeois and a proletarian revolution.

It doesn't matter he bleats.

In addition he is unable to distinguish between the proletariat and the peasantry which is not surprising.

No doubt this inability to distinguish between classes is in no small part due to his own narrow petty-bourgeois mentality which thinks a revolution starts with wearing a T-shirt.

Note that this pathetic ideology comes out in the cheap shot taken at Oxford University.

You can be sure he did not get the grades to go anywhere very much.

I digress.

Readers may wonder whether it is important to engage in serious discussion with such individuals re the class nature of Thailand.

It might be if the reds represented a clear class position and a revolutionary class to boot.

They don't.

In fact the reds have no economic class positions at all.

None. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

All the banner waving and so-called class warfare shouting is nothing more than PR clothing.

The only principled position that the reds and the forum Thaksin apologists hold is that of representing the financial interests of Thaksin.

Thaksin is a personalised mafia split from the establishment.

What Thaksin represents if he represents anything is a threat to turn the State into his personal mafia stronghold.

.It doesn't matter....' Intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest.

A blind man sees (understands) more than you.

Edited March 31, 2010 by yoshiwara

[JetsetBkk]

Conspicuous silence from the red cheerleading squad. A good move by Abhisit, who continues to impress.

Can't be bothered. Next thread, please.

Likewise, you cannot argue with people who are so entrenched with their own rhetoric at least we will have the last laugh when Abhisit gets booted out either by the Military or the electorate which will happen within the next year at the latest!

Maybe you would think different if you listen to my Thai wife explain to family in Issan what it was all about

Now they say Abhisit not loose face, so must be good man, wife explain to them Abhisit give them all money much, in better living standards so can not waste, Thaskin give little cash gone to quick

She say Abhisit face get stronger every day

Thaskins greatest threat is not Abhisit, but Village Thai daughters who get education

Why are you writing like a Thai person trying to speak English? Aren't you Australian?

Maybe you should ask my g/f's aunt who is as bald as a coot because of the free chemotherapy she is getting because of the 30 baht scheme, which she believes (irrespective of whether it's true or not) that Thaksin started.

That is the problem you anti-Reds have, as well as the slightly humorous notion that what you write here will have any effect on the events in Thailand.

Basically, you're preaching to the wrong audience.

[TheOldWolf]

Maybe you would think different if you listen to my Thai wife explain to family in Issan what it was all about

Now they say Abhisit not loose face, so must be good man, wife explain to them Abhisit give them all money much, in better living standards so can not waste, Thaskin give little cash gone to quick

She say Abhisit face get stronger every day

Thaskins greatest threat is not Abhisit, but Village Thai daughters who get education

Why are you writing like a Thai person trying to speak English? Aren't you Australian?

Maybe you should ask my g/f's aunt who is as bald as a coot because of the free chemotherapy she is getting because of the 30 baht scheme, which she believes (irrespective of whether it's true or not) that Thaksin started.

That is the problem you anti-Reds have, as well as the slightly humorous notion that what you write here will have any effect on the events in Thailand.

Basically, you're preaching to the wrong audience.

He refers to his wife and she talks english this way. For it makes it more geniun. And I think she speaks to the right audience, other thais in the villages.

[animatic]

Maybe you would think different if you listen to my Thai wife explain to family in Issan what it was all about

Now they say Abhisit not loose face, so must be good man, wife explain to them Abhisit give them all money much, in better living standards so can not waste, Thaskin give little cash gone to quick

She say Abhisit face get stronger every day

Thaskins greatest threat is not Abhisit, but Village Thai daughters who get education

Why are you writing like a Thai person trying to speak English? Aren't you Australian?

Maybe you should ask my g/f's aunt who is as bald as a coot because of the free chemotherapy she is getting because of the 30 baht scheme, which she believes (irrespective of whether it's true or not) that Thaksin started.

That is the problem you anti-Reds have, as well as the slightly humorous notion that what you write here will have any effect on the events in Thailand.

Basically, you're preaching to the wrong audience.

He refers to his wife and she talks english this way. For it makes it more geniun. And I think she speaks to the right audience, other thais in the villages.

That's how I read it also.

[MellowYellow]

If it was all about the substance of debate it's a no contest. The question is why the PM gave his time to the Red shirt leaders who are unqualified to contest him around the table. The answer is because the red shirts represent the poorest of Thailand (as distinct from Thaksin) and they're uneducated and some of the elite (read PAD) want to keep them that way.

This conflict now goes beyond Thaksin's issues. He maybe financing it but once the shackles are off it's anybody's guess how it'll end. If the red shirts remain resolute ( a big if) they can't lose. The end of an elitist society in Thailand must be close as the gap between the haves and the havenots are growing. It's better to yield a bit now than have a proper revolution. An election will appease the reds but the politicians will still win (read the educated people) and so the status quo will remain. The only thing which may change is that the next government maybe more "poor people friendly" ei. they'll be more beholden. Too much greed is bad for the ruling classes too, history proves that. The 9 months delay Abhisit is proposing is a furfy, he just wants to take the wind out of the reds's sails.

What a load of nonsense.

First of all for saying that an elitist society is coming to an end.

It is clear that you are unable to distinguish between 'elitist' ( a meaningless term), 'haves and have nots' (another meaningless term which avoids a distinguishing of classes) and the 'poorest' (a poor attempt to presumably separate the peasantry from other classes).

You dare to use the term 'ruling class', but run away from identifying the working class.

In short, you throw around various wishy-washy definitions of class war like a drunken man but in reality you have not got a clue.

The reds distinct from Thaksin? So that's your game.

As Thaksin said in his recent message to the troops 'Its not about me, its about Thailand'.

Nobody believes him and nobody believes you.

No, it's not "my game". That's the game the reds are playing now in the "debate". It's not a bad game plan using it against Abhisit who'd like to distance himself from the military who are pulling his strings. The working class , especially in terms of Thailand don't need to be clarified, it's self explanatory. The people who've been exploited by the Elite.(as distinct from "elitist")

There's no need for a revolution if the ruling classes would give a bit to the poorest and not be so greedy. The evidence is so apparent, if you live in Bangkok you can't avoid seeing it.

Look at them gallovanting in the Emporium and Paragon for instance then contrast that of the rural folks. Look at the private school pupils and contrast that to the village schools .

No wonder that a debate like that on TV is a no contest.

Why is this government scared of going to an election? Why would'nt they be, they know they're likely to lose. There's nothing unusual about govenments going to the polls early. In fact in many countries the government engineers that to have an election at their choosing when it advantages them. Clearly Abhisit fears an election now. If he thought he could win he'd grab at it. After all he's a politician. Everyone knows that in particular in Thailand being elected to run the place is a way to riches. The only PM in the last few decades who was not like that is Anand.

Thai society is going through turmoil and it's long overdue. Thaksin was a bit different from the norm as he tried to do something for the rural poor when nobody else would. Certainly he did it because they were his constituents, ie. they voted him in and he benefited. So what else is new? Why don't the Democrats make the same people their constituents? The answer is obvious, the status quo might be changed somewhat and some people who are priviliged wouldn't like it.

The fact is that other counties went through tumultous times like this and came through better for it. What's the saying, "you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg"?

Except that you fail to identify what sort of revolution you are advocating.

A bourgeois revolution? A proletarian revolution?

You don't know and you don't understand beyond probably wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt.

Or maybe you really do think there can be a revolution of the peasantry led by petty-bourgeois elements a la Cuba.

One thing is clear. Revolutions are not calibrated by greed, but by objective class forces none of which you comprehend.

Not that you are completely naive about the situation.

Re Thaksin in your meally-mouthed reference to 'ie. they voted him in and he benefited.' ie not only do you here explicitly support corruption, you support Thaksin's greed as well.

So much for a revolutionary position.

Some dumb Thaksin apologists put it out that they are supporting the lower classes, well some of them anyway.

However, the apologists are not opposed to the status quo (re class power) whatsoever

What they, in practice, are supporting, is a personalised split in the ruling class represented by Thaksin.

Any protestations to the contrary should be summarily dismissed for the dissembling it is.

Any revolution that changes the status quo is an event which can benefit Thailand. It doesn't matter if it comes from the bourgeois or the proletarian. For Thailand's sake it better come from the educated intelligentia/ business people who have a compassion for rural folk and willing to give up some ill gotten gains.

In this context one could say that Thaksin is doing exactly that as he's financing the reds. IMO the reds will have just as much impact on Thaksin if he comes back and gets re-instated as he on them. That's what Abhisit and his supporters are scared of, a shift away from the present power structure . In this scenario the military may have to be put in their places, that is a defence force instead of an internal security force and puppet masters to PMs.

You're badly mistaken if you think that a sweet talking Abhisit who learnt his skills of manipulations in Oxford is a true representative for all people in Thailand. A pretty boy bidding the policies of others (including the military) . Now he's trying to cuddle up to the rural folk by trying to buy them off with forgiving their debt. Last week he was telling the military to submit their military wish lists so they'll be appeased. The guy is so obvious Blind Freddy can see it. Except you.

I don't mind speeeeeling or grammar errors but all the broken quotes tags in this post make it incomprehensible between what you are saying and what you are responding to.

Also, +1 to what the others have responded if you really think a military revolution is the sane answer to any of the issues of the day.

[Publicus]

Pheu Thai Party Chairman Suggests House Dissolution Within 2 Months

BANGKOK: -- The chairman of the Pheu Thai Party has suggested that if the government does not agree with the red-shirts' demand for House dissolution within 15 days, it could do so within two months.

Regarding the negotiation between the government and the red-shirt leaders, the Chairman of the Pheu Thai Party, General Chaowalit Yongjaiyudh, said he agrees with the red-shirts' demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dissolve the lower-house within 15 days, before the country can be further damaged from widespread corruption, and to reunite the divided public.

Chaowalit suggested that if the government does not agree with the red-shirts' demand for House dissolution within 15 days, it could do so within two months.

Chaowalit has also criticised a comment made by Chief Adviser of the Chart Thai Pattana Party, Banharn Silpa-archa, that his party is not prepared for a new election.

The chairman of the Pheu Thai Party said the politicians should always consider the people's interests before of their own.

Meanwhile, Chief of the Pheu Thai Party's MPs, Chalerm Yubamrung, said at the party's annual convention that he will submit a request for the next no confidence debate on April 19th if the protesters agree to suspend the rally during that time.

Chalerm said the information for the scrutinising the prime minister, the foreign minister, and the interior minister has been prepared.

He also pointed out that one additional member of the Cabinet will be scrutinised at the session, but he refused to give details, saying he does not want to risk damaging the sensitive evidence that he has in hand.

Chalerm also plans to pressure Banharn to stop supporting the government.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-31

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

The chairman of the Pheu Thai Party said the politicians should always consider the people's interests before of their own.

Politician quote of the day

My reaction precisely and exactly. There is a long parade of clowns in in the country's political history, but none of 'em can top this guy who's at a dubiously distinctive pinnacle and likely will remain there indefinitely.

[Siam Simon]

Seem the paranoia has hit a new high and a low nerve...

No, it could never hit a new low with the likes of you and Sergeant around .

[zirc]

Meanwhile, Chief of the Pheu Thai Party's MPs, Chalerm Yubamrung, said at the party's annual convention that he will submit a request for the next no confidence debate on April 19th if the protesters agree to suspend the rally during that time.

Chalerm said the information for the scrutinising the prime minister, the foreign minister, and the interior minister has been prepared.

He also pointed out that one additional member of the Cabinet will be scrutinised at the session, but he refused to give details, saying he does not want to risk damaging the sensitive evidence that he has in hand.

A mere 24 hours later and the Censure Debate by Chalerm and his PTP MP's has been axed by the opposition chief whip Witthaya Buranasiri.

He said that any efforts expended with a censure motion might derail the UDD red shirt protests.

Disarray continues unabated with the PTP, who haven't had a proper Party Leader for the Pheu Thai Party for a year and a half and explains why they use the feigned titles of "Chief of the Pheu Thai Party MP's" for Chalerm and "Chairman of the Pheu Thai Party" for Chavalit.

[JetsetBkk]

He refers to his wife and she talks english this way. For it makes it more geniun. And I think she speaks to the right audience, other thais in the villages.

That's how I read it also.

That's how I read it also. But in fact he wasn't quoting his wife, he was referring to what she said, so it was his way of talking.

I know a lot of posters are not native English speakers so maybe you don't understand the difference.

[yoshiwara]

My assumption that all volunteers would have a Health Check is based on experience dealing with Civil Servants and HR departments where all workers who are recruited to carry out duties involving physical exertion are given health checks. Of course you would now argue that all the 1000 "volunteers" thugs recruited by Abhisit are only used to gather intelligence and not to get involved in physical exertion (violence). But I remember last Songkrang when the Red Shirts said that the extreme violence at Victory Monument was the work of infiltrators, this was flatly denied by the Government. What are they going to say now, "We never infiltrate demonstrations with paid Government thugs?"

Physical exertion?? They are probably all sleeping on some chair somewhere, making a phone call every hour saying "yep, they're still here".

Have you seen any of these volunteers? Are any of them dressed in red? Are you on something?

Now you go from making it up as you go along to being childish or maybe it's just that you're extremely ill informed. The man whose picture you most probably carry in your wallet stated that he had recruited 1000 volunteers from the Ministry of the Interior - to reporters in front of TV cameras - at the start of the demonstrations. Does he also tell lies like the ones his Minister of Health has been caught telling?

Do you think Thaksin had a point about the PM being surrounded by mentally unstable homosexuals?

Because I suspect that they are the ones directing the HIV slander of which you speak.

Its a good job that Thaksin is a beacon of light re speaking the truth.

One can see the inspirational effect on red supporters such as yourself.

One big beacon leading lots of little beacons.