Red-Shirt Leaders Urged To Bypass Thaksin

[ChiangMaiFun]

a valid case and your insultsIn that case I'll take my 6,995 posts and agree with him.

"...I can assure you the REDS do NOT speak for the majority of Thai's..."

'...You likely even know and understand all of this,

but life under the bridge must just get too boring sometimes I imagine.'

pathetic rhetoric based on... nothing but biased and ignorant views that you think you know what the Thai people think - you don't - and I don't - let the electorate decide - but that's too dangerous for you isn't it?

I can add my 11,000 posts to the above and the fact that I have been here more than 2 years AND have followed politics here the entire time. How a minority that chose to be represented by cheats and thieves "feels" just isn't an issue of democracy. Since the reds turned down a reasonable offer by the government they can just wait until Abhisit decides is the best time OR the coalition falls apart.

Hi! I wondered when you would chip in Abhisit has already given ground by saying he will call an early election - you were against this? what happened? changed your view? you were saying 'stay the whole length' you're a little bit mute about this point JD

[Chaimai]

i believe the only true test will be a nationwide election and the PM has agreed that in principal - whoever wins - wins

Nobody, including Abhisit, has ever talked about there being no elections, so all you are doing is stating the obvious.

Where disagreement lies is in your and the reds' viewpoint that at their demand and with the threat of violence hanging in the air, elections should be called immediately and before the government has served its term - nevermind what the rest of the country thinks or feels - that's what they want so that's what we must have.

Classis playground posturing - if you don't dissolve parliament within 15 days we will call you bad names and throw blood at your house. Na na na na na nah !

[traderjm]

Classis playground posturing - if you don't dissolve parliament within 15 days we will call you bad names and throw blood at your house. Na na na na na nah !

I realize I only have 51 posts and as such my opinion is likely not valid, but..... that's never stopped me before. So here goes, I am curious as it's been 15 days that the REDs have been calling for parliament to be dissovled with no luck. They also claim the will NOT stoop to violence. So what is stopping the current gov't from just saying ok well see ya next year for the elections. Sooner or later all those reds will get bored and go home, the puppet master will run out of patience and will to spend any more money and the way the tide appears to be turning Bangkok citizens are already feeling less friendly on a daily basis to their up country guests... I have a hard time seeing how the REDs get out of this with any face left.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Classis playground posturing - if you don't dissolve parliament within 15 days we will call you bad names and throw blood at your house. Na na na na na nah !

I realize I only have 51 posts and as such my opinion is likely not valid, but..... that's never stopped me before. So here goes, I am curious as it's been 15 days that the REDs have been calling for parliament to be dissovled with no luck. They also claim the will NOT stoop to violence. So what is stopping the current gov't from just saying ok well see ya next year for the elections. Sooner or later all those reds will get bored and go home, the puppet master will run out of patience and will to spend any more money and the way the tide appears to be turning Bangkok citizens are already feeling less friendly on a daily basis to their up country guests... I have a hard time seeing how the REDs get out of this with any face left.

That's fine... happy to receive contributing debate - no need to call fellow posters 'trolls' is there? the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it! I hope they now accept gracefully and we have a fair and balanced election - whoever wins - wins - and get's my (not that it matter anymore than other posters) support. this government does not have widespread support - if it doe let it be ELECTED by the people (not just a glutton of MPs).

[rixalex]

Whilst i strongly disagree with much if not most of what CMF says, i am sorry to see him being labeled. It's unnecessary. Just my opinion...

[rixalex]

the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it!

It might be a victory for the reds but i fail to see how it's a victory for democracy or for the rest of the country. This government as you accept is legitimate and having a minority group force it to cut short its term under the threat of violence is something not far short of a coup.

[jdinasia]

Classis playground posturing - if you don't dissolve parliament within 15 days we will call you bad names and throw blood at your house. Na na na na na nah !

I realize I only have 51 posts and as such my opinion is likely not valid, but..... that's never stopped me before. So here goes, I am curious as it's been 15 days that the REDs have been calling for parliament to be dissovled with no luck. They also claim the will NOT stoop to violence. So what is stopping the current gov't from just saying ok well see ya next year for the elections. Sooner or later all those reds will get bored and go home, the puppet master will run out of patience and will to spend any more money and the way the tide appears to be turning Bangkok citizens are already feeling less friendly on a daily basis to their up country guests... I have a hard time seeing how the REDs get out of this with any face left.

That's fine... happy to receive contributing debate - no need to call fellow posters 'trolls' is there? the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it! I hope they now accept gracefully and we have a fair and balanced election - whoever wins - wins - and get's my (not that it matter anymore than other posters) support. this government does not have widespread support - if it doe let it be ELECTED by the people (not just a glutton of MPs).

Gads ... where have the reds "forced" the government to do anything? Abhisit has stepped up and agreed in principal to allow early elections a year ealy, but NOT before the budget, and constitution are dealt with. For a relative newcomer to state how much support the government possibly is not quite as valid as perhaps the opinion of someone that has lived in Thailand and not just in Chiang Mai for a couple of years. The current government has more than 50% of the country's support. Then there's the ELECTED part --- the current PM is the ELECTED PM. Elected the same way Samak and Somchai were, by the members of parliament! You know and have stated this numerous times yet you keep coming back to nonsensical statements again .....

[ratcatcher]

Classis playground posturing - if you don't dissolve parliament within 15 days we will call you bad names and throw blood at your house. Na na na na na nah !

I realize I only have 51 posts and as such my opinion is likely not valid, but..... that's never stopped me before. So here goes, I am curious as it's been 15 days that the REDs have been calling for parliament to be dissovled with no luck. They also claim the will NOT stoop to violence. So what is stopping the current gov't from just saying ok well see ya next year for the elections. Sooner or later all those reds will get bored and go home, the puppet master will run out of patience and will to spend any more money and the way the tide appears to be turning Bangkok citizens are already feeling less friendly on a daily basis to their up country guests... I have a hard time seeing how the REDs get out of this with any face left.

That's fine... happy to receive contributing debate - no need to call fellow posters 'trolls' is there? the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it! I hope they now accept gracefully and we have a fair and balanced election - whoever wins - wins - and get's my (not that it matter anymore than other posters) support. this government does not have widespread support - if it doe let it be ELECTED by the people (not just a glutton of MPs).

Gads ... where have the reds "forced" the government to do anything? Abhisit has stepped up and agreed in principal to allow early elections a year ealy, but NOT before the budget, and constitution are dealt with. For a relative newcomer to state how much support the government possibly is not quite as valid as perhaps the opinion of someone that has lived in Thailand and not just in Chiang Mai for a couple of years. The current government has more than 50% of the country's support. Then there's the ELECTED part --- the current PM is the ELECTED PM. Elected the same way Samak and Somchai were, by the members of parliament! You know and have stated this numerous times yet you keep coming back to nonsensical statements again .....

It's OK jd, CMF is just being pig-headed.

[animatic]

Well your red friends turned it down,

and Abhisit is now under no obligation to do anything besides finish his term.

The only reason he talked with them was for a time out for the people of Bangkok

and to air the sides views for ALL Thais to see and hear and make up their own minds.

Fair play to him, it no doubt was not an easy two meetings. But he did it with aplomb.

It ill be much harder for the reds to build a real crowd that is unopposed now,

since they clearly looked and acted intransigent and Abhisit looked and acted

reasonably forthcoming and made reasonable concessions.

True believers and paid filler coming for one more bash, but nothing much more.

The Reds didn't accept and that will not go unnoticed by the general public.

Come what may Abhisit can say he tried and was rebuffed, but the same people

who threw blood all around and disrupted traffic in Bangkok for weeks on and

and called everyone hideous names in very un-thai like fashions,

and refused further discussions.

Did they ask for help for the people in the north, did they ask for any practical

help in ways to change what's happening for farmers in rice and other crops?

Nope not a word.

No they had one idea for the bully pulpit they were graciously handed.

Bring down the government ASAP... as if that truly will help the people

of Issan in a practical way. It won't, it qwill only help Thaksin's

hand picked puyai crew back to power.

Sorry you can no longer plausibly attempt to imply

that these Red Leaders speak for the majority of Thais.

They blew it on national television for all to see.

Now Abhisit has called for a debt moratorium for farmers... practical help.

Who's thinking of what most of them need, vs what a segment wants?

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it!

It might be a victory for the reds but i fail to see how it's a victory for democracy or for the rest of the country. This government as you accept is legitimate and having a minority group force it to cut short its term under the threat of violence is something not far short of a coup.

Yes I concure.

A Pyrrhic victory at most, ooh we won a concession and the told them to stick it...

Wow what a win.... insert irony,

[ChiangMaiFun]

the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it!

It might be a victory for the reds but i fail to see how it's a victory for democracy or for the rest of the country. This government as you accept is legitimate and having a minority group force it to cut short its term under the threat of violence is something not far short of a coup.

Appreciate the other post...

…back to the debate - it sort of comes with the territory doesn't it? It’s a vicious circle? I don’t know how to stop them going round and round – when one side uses the tactic the other side tends to too. I was VERY surprised (and a little disappointed) that Abhisit even considered calling an early election – but he has publicly stated it – if it’s a tactic it will backfire. As you know we disagree on an early election – I actually quite like Abhisit – but I don’t like that way the government was formed.

[Chaimai]

Well your red friends turned it down,

and Abhisit is now under no obligation to do anything besides finish his term.

Yes he is. I believe that he is committed to making Thailand a "better place" with a better political foundation.

Now Abhisit has called for a debt moratorium for farmers... practical help.

Who's thinking of what most of them need, vs what a segment wants?

I rest my case. This is a small thing that he does to try and progress matters. Cynics will argue that it is 'vote buying' but, so far, I have not seen Abhisit do anything that is detrimental to the people (all people) of Thailand.

Not bad for a puppet.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Well your red friends turned it down,

and Abhisit is now under no obligation to do anything besides finish his term.

The only reason he talked with them was for a time out for the people of Bangkok

and to air the sides views for ALL Thais to see and hear and make up their own minds.

Fair play to him, it no doubt was not an easy two meetings. But he did it with aplomb.

It ill be much harder for the reds to build a real crowd that is unopposed now,

since they clearly looked and acted intransigent and Abhisit looked and acted

reasonably forthcoming and made reasonable concessions.

True believers and paid filler coming for one more bash, but nothing much more.

The Reds didn't accept and that will not go unnoticed by the general public.

Come what may Abhisit can say he tried and was rebuffed, but the same people

who threw blood all around and disrupted traffic in Bangkok for weeks on and

and called everyone hideous names in very un-thai lake fashions refused further discusions.

Did they ask for help for the people in the north, did they ask for any practical

ways to change what's happening for farmers in rice and other crops?

Nope not a word.

No they had one idea for the bully pulpit they were graciously handed.

Bring down the government ASAP... as if that truly eill help the people

of Issan in a practical way.

Sorry you can no longer plausibly attempt to imply

that these people speak for the majority of Thais.

Now Abhisit has called for a debt moratorium for farmers... practical help.

Who's thinking of what most of them need, vs what a segment wants?

No one agrees with 'throwing blood around' I though it was pathetic (almost as the airport takeover) and I don't support such childish and pathetic rantings anymore than you do. I agree they should be very careful with Abhisits offer - a more statesman-like consideration would not go amiss. BUT they did force it - whichever way you look at it - I was most surprised actually! you have to admit that? come on be fair - he didn't offer it out of Goodwill... but there may be some amongst the reds who are stupid enough to throw it away - therein lies the rub. All of this doesn't mean to say they do not have some points though...

[ChiangMaiFun]

Well your red friends turned it down,

and Abhisit is now under no obligation to do anything besides finish his term.

Yes he is. I believe that he is committed to making Thailand a "better place" with a better political foundation.

Now Abhisit has called for a debt moratorium for farmers... practical help.

Who's thinking of what most of them need, vs what a segment wants?

I rest my case. This is a small thing that he does to try and progress matters. Cynics will argue that it is 'vote buying' but, so far, I have not seen Abhisit do anything that is detrimental to the people (all people) of Thailand.

Not bad for a puppet.

Pleeeeeze - it's so naive as to be almost laughable - 'vote buying'? surely not?

if we could just stop this endless round of 'my dick is bigger than your dick' we could make progress - both sides!

[jdinasia]

the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it!

It might be a victory for the reds but i fail to see how it's a victory for democracy or for the rest of the country. This government as you accept is legitimate and having a minority group force it to cut short its term under the threat of violence is something not far short of a coup.

Yes I concure.

A Pyrrhic victory at most, ooh we won a concession and the told them to stick it...

Wow what a win.... insert irony,

hmmmm I see it as a victory for the government. The reds provided a pipeline directly into their powerbase by airing the "discussions" on PeopleTV. I can see no way that Abhisit could have gotten his message directly to those people without this public duscussion. It WILL make some of them think about what good governance is.

Abhisit took the high road and dealt with Jatuporn's rude sneering and Weng's lies by speaking plainy and politely. Abhisit asked pointed questions and gave direct answers that in several cases left the reds speechless. Abhisit reminded the reds watching at home that they were NOT the only people in Thailand and that the government must represent all people. He got a chance to point out what they had accomplished and the red leadership could not match that with anything that PPP or PTP had accomplished. Abhsist had the chance to point out that charter reform could have been finished by now but Jatuporn's party had walked away from it.

Abhisit offered a compromise that gave up more time that his government is legally entitled to run Thailand than time he kept for the government to address things like the budget and charter reform.

The people of Thailand LIKE compromise solutions and abhor ultimatums. Abhisit offered a compromise and the reds offered only an ultimatum.

Jatuporn's recent statement of threatening that BKK would look like the troubled South when it comes to bombings and attacks will certainly stick in the craw of most Thais as well.

[ChiangMaiFun]

the reds, 'love em or hate em' have forced Abhisit to give way to an earlier election - a victory I'd call it!

It might be a victory for the reds but i fail to see how it's a victory for democracy or for the rest of the country. This government as you accept is legitimate and having a minority group force it to cut short its term under the threat of violence is something not far short of a coup.

Yes I concure.

A Pyrrhic victory at most, ooh we won a concession and the told them to stick it...

Wow what a win.... insert irony,

hmmmm I see it as a victory for the government. The reds provided a pipeline directly into their powerbase by airing the "discussions" on PeopleTV. I can see no way that Abhisit could have gotten his message directly to those people without this public duscussion. It WILL make some of them think about what good governance is.

Abhisit took the high road and dealt with Jatuporn's rude sneering and Weng's lies by speaking plainy and politely. Abhisit asked pointed questions and gave direct answers that in several cases left the reds speechless. Abhisit reminded the reds watching at home that they were NOT the only people in Thailand and that the government must represent all people. He got a chance to point out what they had accomplished and the red leadership could not match that with anything that PPP or PTP had accomplished. Abhsist had the chance to point out that charter reform could have been finished by now but Jatuporn's party had walked away from it.

Abhisit offered a compromise that gave up more time that his government is legally entitled to run Thailand than time he kept for the government to address things like the budget and charter reform.

The people of Thailand LIKE compromise solutions and abhor ultimatums. Abhisit offered a compromise and the reds offered only an ultimatum.

Jatuporn's recent statement of threatening that BKK would look like the troubled South when it comes to bombings and attacks will certainly stick in the craw of most Thais as well.

oh cummon JD.......... you're sounding like the Iraqi Public Relations Minister on the eve of invasion - 've vill beat zem' - don't tell us it's a 'victory' for the government - it is not - at least hold true to your ideals - talk about SPIN - wow I'm going round and round!!!

[jdinasia]

CMF --- for "spin" you will have to consult with your handlers. The ones that turned down a compromise. The ones that let Abhisit speak directly to their followers etc.

It is a pity that you haven't been in Thailand long enough to see how well that the discussions played for the government. If you knew how Thais respect politeness and an attitude of being willing to compromise and hear someone else's opinion, then you would understand how well this played to the rest of the country. Abhisit did what Thais expect out of leaders and Jatuporn came off looking like a thug. Many of the reds that have not been totally braindeadened by the PeopleTV slanted "news" and information will have seen this but more importantly people all over Thailand saw it. It was a big PR "coup" for Abhisit to get that much unobstructed free airtime into the heart of the Red camp.

Abhisit has everr appeared the conciliatory prime minister in this red made mess and the 2 publicly televised discussions just added to his image, while making Jatuporn and Dr Weng look like total reactionaries with no plan at all.*

That no violence has befallen the reds at their rallies has not gone unnoticed by people either. People remember the nightly grenade attacks at Government house (after Sae Daeng, a red leader, announced that there would be grenade attacks). People remember those grenade attacks continueing at Suwannapoom after the AOT closed the airport and walked away. People SEE the grenade attacks happening across bangkok and remember who talked about grenades (Sae Daeng -- the red leader that frequently has visited Thaksin). Then they have now heard jatuporns threat of more to come. Great timing that! "Hey world --- help us!, hey world --- BTW we are planning on making Bangkok look like Thailand's "restive South".

The above PLUS Abhisit's reminder of when the term "double standards" started being used in Thailand (after Thaksin's was not found guilty on his 2001 assets concealment case) certainly made its way through the public's mind.

[animatic]

CMF --- for "spin" you will have to consult with your handlers. The ones that turned down a compromise. The ones that let Abhisit speak directly to their followers etc.

It is a pity that you haven't been in Thailand long enough to see how well that the discussions played for the government. If you knew how Thais respect politeness and an attitude of being willing to compromise and hear someone else's opinion, then you would understand how well this played to the rest of the country. Abhisit did what Thais expect out of leaders and Jatuporn came off looking like a thug. Many of the reds that have not been totally braindeadened by the PeopleTV slanted "news" and information will have seen this but more importantly people all over Thailand saw it. It was a big PR "coup" for Abhisit to get that much unobstructed free airtime into the heart of the Red camp.

Abhisit has everr appeared the conciliatory prime minister in this red made mess and the 2 publicly televised discussions just added to his image, while making Jatuporn and Dr Weng look like total reactionaries with no plan at all.*

That no violence has befallen the reds at their rallies has not gone unnoticed by people either. People remember the nightly grenade attacks at Government house (after Sae Daeng, a red leader, announced that there would be grenade attacks). People remember those grenade attacks continueing at Suwannapoom after the AOT closed the airport and walked away. People SEE the grenade attacks happening across bangkok and remember who talked about grenades (Sae Daeng -- the red leader that frequently has visited Thaksin). Then they have now heard jatuporns threat of more to come. Great timing that! "Hey world --- help us!, hey world --- BTW we are planning on making Bangkok look like Thailand's "restive South".

The above PLUS Abhisit's reminder of when the term "double standards" started being used in Thailand (after Thaksin's was not found guilty on his 2001 assets concealment case) certainly made its way through the public's mind.

Nothing amiss in this synopsis.

Yes Abhisit really made huge points all over the nation in ways that traditionally have strong meaning in Thai lives.

The only one partway breaking even on the opposition was Veera, who looked too emotionally angry,

but at least talked rationally and to the point. Not agile, but at least functional... this man must be rather frustrated in the company he keeps...

Weng was a tangential ideologue, the semi-reconstructed communist trying in vain to be

relevant in the 21st century, and only acting to a long held mental script in obvious way.

Jatuporn, was so obnoxious it's easy to see what his aging mother chided him publicly, and they are estranged.

He is and ideologue, without a position he really understands, like a trained attack dog,

left on it's own too long and grown half feral, and then brought back to protect the sheeple.

Make a big noise and maybe the wolf pack won't eat your flock in one night...

Compared to Abhisits lucid and composed back up team it is more than night and day,

it's more like 19th and 21st centuries Marx vs Keynes on the main stage.

Edited March 31, 2010 by animatic

[tracymeaw]

Well many thanks for following my two so-called "meaningless comments" with a third.

I thought you and I agreed that I wouldn't tell anyone about Prem being your hero and you wouldn't tell anyone that Thaksin is mine. OOPS, too late!

You know, it takes a really small mind to think that this is all about one man, Thaksin. But, it is very funny that you are so clearly afraid of him.

The red leaders keep on saying it's all about Thaksin. But Thaksin occasionally has to remind them that it's not about him, but get the government dissolved so I can come back and fix everything.

It can't be only about the poor farmers, because the government is doing something to help them.

It is clearly ALL about Thaksin.

Let's settle this the Thai Democratic way... if you really think that I am Pro-Thaksin and you don't like what I say, then just have me banned.

Why does that sound so much like someone who HAS been banned at TV... hmm

And, why does it sound like every post you enter is an argument between a schizophrenic and himself?

[Siam Simon]

Let's settle this the Thai Democratic way... if you really think that I am Pro-Thaksin and you don't like what I say, then just have me banned.

Why does that sound so much like someone who HAS been banned at TV... hmm

And, why does it sound like every post you enter is an argument between a schizophrenic and himself?

He's TV's Ralph, and the obsessive ranter mate is Sergeant (Wait Till Your Father Gets Home). There you go, simple explanation .

[tracymeaw]

'Yoshiwara, you talk so much shit that were out of quotes..

'

do we really need to use swear words on this web site

to me it just shows your status no matter which side you support

Sorry, I will work on my writing skills and choice of words.

"The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof, SHIT detector. This is the writer's radar and all great writers have had it. "-- Ernest Hemingway

My shit detector is apparently malfunctioning! Of course, I could be wrong, in which case you can always run back to your imaginary little protective bubble where the big bad words can't hurt you anymore.

By the way, it takes a very shallow person to presume to judge a person's status simply by a web board posting. Get a life <deleted>!!

wow 7 posts... welcome newbie - and thanks for your crass and infantile contribution full of BIG and BOLD swear words (you must be out of your teens by now?) which added...? ZILCH to the debate

Thanks for showing me your fine example of an intelligent, mature, and on topic post. You must be really smart!

[tracymeaw]

Sorry, I will work on my writing skills and choice of words.

"The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof, SHIT detector. This is the writer's radar and all great writers have had it. "-- Ernest Hemingway

My shit detector is apparently malfunctioning! Of course, I could be wrong, in which case you can always run back to your imaginary little protective bubble where the big bad words can't hurt you anymore.

By the way, it takes a very shallow person to presume to judge a person's status simply by a web board posting. Get a life <deleted>!!

Tracy.

Where have you been for the last 7 years?

Thanks for the warm welcome! I’ve been very busy these past few years. Hopefully I will settle down in Thailand soon with all of the friendly people I'm meeting here on thaivisa.

[ChiangMaiFun]

CMF --- for "spin" you will have to consult with your handlers. The ones that turned down a compromise. The ones that let Abhisit speak directly to their followers etc.

It is a pity that you haven't been in Thailand long enough to see how well that the discussions played for the government. If you knew how Thais respect politeness and an attitude of being willing to compromise and hear someone else's opinion, then you would understand how well this played to the rest of the country. Abhisit did what Thais expect out of leaders and Jatuporn came off looking like a thug. Many of the reds that have not been totally braindeadened by the PeopleTV slanted "news" and information will have seen this but more importantly people all over Thailand saw it. It was a big PR "coup" for Abhisit to get that much unobstructed free airtime into the heart of the Red camp.

Abhisit has everr appeared the conciliatory prime minister in this red made mess and the 2 publicly televised discussions just added to his image, while making Jatuporn and Dr Weng look like total reactionaries with no plan at all.*

That no violence has befallen the reds at their rallies has not gone unnoticed by people either. People remember the nightly grenade attacks at Government house (after Sae Daeng, a red leader, announced that there would be grenade attacks). People remember those grenade attacks continueing at Suwannapoom after the AOT closed the airport and walked away. People SEE the grenade attacks happening across bangkok and remember who talked about grenades (Sae Daeng -- the red leader that frequently has visited Thaksin). Then they have now heard jatuporns threat of more to come. Great timing that! "Hey world --- help us!, hey world --- BTW we are planning on making Bangkok look like Thailand's "restive South".

The above PLUS Abhisit's reminder of when the term "double standards" started being used in Thailand (after Thaksin's was not found guilty on his 2001 assets concealment case) certainly made its way through the public's mind.

I don't disagree they didn't come across well - and you know I do not support nor condone violence in any of my posts and have spoken out against it many times - but my point is... they have forced Abhsisit to consider an early election - you should conceed this point.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Breaking News!!!

Yellows to shut down Chiang Mai Airport!

The yellow leader Samooweng Damnooweng was heard to comment

'we will shut it down - due to the pollution by the red shirts - they caused pollution to disrupt us - they do it every year!'

when asked why they would do it? he replied 'there is no smoke without fire is there?'

so there you have it

[jdinasia]

Forced? LOL

[anotherpeter]

I don't disagree they didn't come across well - and you know I do not support nor condone violence in any of my posts and have spoken out against it many times - but my point is... they have forced Abhsisit to consider an early election - you should conceed this point.

Maybe Abhisit offered it knowing full well that the reds would not (and could not) accept it.

So Abhisit wasn't forced into accepting it, it was just part of the chess game.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I don't disagree they didn't come across well - and you know I do not support nor condone violence in any of my posts and have spoken out against it many times - but my point is... they have forced Abhsisit to consider an early election - you should conceed this point.

Maybe Abhisit offered it knowing full well that the reds would not (and could not) accept it.

So Abhisit wasn't forced into accepting it, it was just part of the chess game.

whatever the wrong and rights - we all know that he would not have offered if the protests had not occurred - you know it, I know it - all of you know it - elections will happen before the due date - just admit that part - in that sense they have forced it - you can't deny that and it weakens your whole arguement if you do.

I have been bold enough to admit many weaknesses on the reds side - in many of my posts - just be honest

[ChiangMaiFun]

Forced? LOL

he would have done it anyway right? haha cummon...

[jdinasia]

I don't disagree they didn't come across well - and you know I do not support nor condone violence in any of my posts and have spoken out against it many times - but my point is... they have forced Abhsisit to consider an early election - you should conceed this point.

Maybe Abhisit offered it knowing full well that the reds would not (and could not) accept it.

So Abhisit wasn't forced into accepting it, it was just part of the chess game.

Abhisit has said for weeks that dissolution was not off the table. What he got by that was access. People that have been here long enough know that you can't rule Thailand without considering ALL the people including those that have set themselves up as the 'enemy'.

Thaksin failed in this through hubris. His proxies since 2006 have continued with a program of hubris where nobody matters but them. People that understand Thailand will understand that Abhisit gained face by everything that has gone on recently and the reds have lost. People that don't see the bigger picture will harp on about what they don't understand as the government being "forced" into something. Let's look at the reality, nothing in the government stance has changed. The government gained access to speak directly to the red rank and file. The government looked generous and the reds stuck to an 'ultimatum' that cost them support in the majority of neither red nor yellow Thais AND amongst their own moderates. This was a clear win for the government.

[Ricardo]

I don't disagree they didn't come across well - and you know I do not support nor condone violence in any of my posts and have spoken out against it many times - but my point is... they have forced Abhsisit to consider an early election - you should conceed this point.

I'm petty sure that PM-Abhisit, as a normal politician, would already have been considering an early election, as all it would take is one of his coalition-partners to drop out (not entirely impossible) and he would then need to decide, whether to call an election or return to opposition. That's just normal politics.

Note that PM-Somchai had the same opportunity, but 'democratically' chose not to go to the country, before his party was dissolved and his coalition-government fell, in November-2008.

No, the point is, Abhisit chose to link an early-election, which the Red-Shirts seek, to improvements to the Constitution, which they also from-time-to-time claim to seek. Either way he wins, because they help him achieve something worthwhile longer-term with the Constitution, or they show that a quick-election is more important to them than fairer democratic-rules.

In sticking to the 15-day dissolution, the Red-leaders show that Thaksin's needs are currently their over-riding consideration, rather than their noble claims to also want to fix Thai democracy.