The Thais Working Israel's Farms

[LaoPo]

The Thais working Israel's farms

By Jon Donnison

BBC News, Gaza

After the Israeli government stopped Gazan workers from crossing the border farmers have had to look as far afield as Thailand for workers

The beautiful moshav or communal farm at Netiv Haasara in southern Israel, right on the border with Gaza, is green, lush and fragrant with jasmine and orange blossom.

In the moshav's vast greenhouses they grow everything from cucumbers to coriander, peas to peppers.

“ It was much nicer to have Palestinian workers coming across. I wish it could change ”

Roni Keidar

Roni Keidar

The sounds and smells are pretty typical of Israel in springtime - except, that is, for the murmur of conversation in an unlikely language - Thai.

"Virtually all our workers here are Thai," says Roni Keidar who runs a seed production business on the moshav.

"We tried to get Israelis to do the work but it's too difficult. It's too hot for them in the greenhouses," she says.

"Too posh to pick?" I ask. "Maybe," Ms Keidar laughs.

The Israeli government says there are around 28,000 Thais working legally in Israel.

And with the farms located close to the border with Gaza, there is a risk from the rockets Palestinian militants fire into Israel.

Last month a Thai farm worker at Netiv Haasara became the first person in Israel in more than a year to be killed by a rocket fired by Palestinian militants in Gaza.

Cheap workforce

But for many it is a risk worth taking.

"I earn about a thousand dollars a month here," says 33-year-old Kai, who gives only his first name, as he picks coriander. "That's double what I could earn back home."

Kai has worked here for four and half years. He has six months to go on his five-year visa.

Kai has only a few months left on his visa

He is doing work that used to be done by another cheap workforce just down the road.

Netiv Haasara is right on the border with Gaza. Standing by the greenhouses you can literally touch the huge concrete wall that separates Israel from the Palestinian territory.

Less than a kilometre from Netiv Haasara is the Erez Crossing, the main checkpoint from Gaza into Israel.

These days just a trickle of people are allowed to cross.

Unemployed

But until the start of the second intifada, or Palestinian uprising, in 2000 when Israel tightened the border, thousands of Gazans used to travel daily through Erez to work on Israeli farms.

I meet one such Gazan next to his small house in Beit Hanoun.

The walls are riddled with bullet holes from Israel's offensive in Gaza just over a year ago.

Like more than 40% of Gazans, Khalil Zania is unemployed.

Mr Zania worked for 17 years on the farm

But for 17 years he helped keep bees and picked flowers on the moshav where Roni Keidar now has her farm.

"After the intifada they started using foreign workers and we had to stay home. It makes me feel sad. Palestinian workers were very good," he says.

Mr Zania says he still talks on the phone to some of the friends he met in Israel.

And Roni Keidar said her Gazan workers were "part of the family".

"We used to go to their weddings or birthday parties in Gaza. They would come and eat at our house," she says.

Although she says it's "crazy" to be using workers from halfway around the world when there is a huge unemployed workforce so close to home, she can see why the Palestinians are not allowed in.

"It's because of terrorism," she says, adding that when the borders were open, there were suicide attacks in cities such as Tel Aviv.

"It was much nicer to have Palestinian workers coming across. I wish it could change."

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/midd...ast/8597493.stm

Published: 2010/04/01 08:26:12 GMT

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

That is sad about the Gazans. Low paid farm workers should be your neighbors, its nicer that way.

[geriatrickid]

28,000 Thais? Cripes that's a big population. $1,000/month = $12,000./annum Pretty good wages compared to what a Thai farm worker gets. What is it now 150 baht/200 baht /day? That makes the wages more like$125-$150/month. I think the Israelis provide room and board whereas the typical Thai farmworker pays for it out of his/her daily wages. I don't know where the Thai worker was making $500/month, (he says the Israeli pay is 2X what he got in Thailand) unless I am clueless on the wages paid on Thai farms. All in all a pretty good arrangement all the same.

Considering this farm and most of the others employing Thais are in undisputed parts of Israel, it would seem that the arabs once again misjudged. However, that shouldn't stop Norway from continuing to fund Hamas. I can't wait for the usual Euro trash to show up and find a way to blame Israel for not having an open border.

[Huey]

You know I love Thailand and I like to see Thai People working abroad. For example I do alot of work in Iraq and Afghan which is pretty much dominated by Philipenoes, Bangladeshi, Eastern European, and Nepali when it comes to TCNs. So when I see a Thai out there making that bread I feel happy for him or her and it's always nice to chat in Thai and about spicy food and how much we miss home.

That being said, thats just dead wrong that not only did they take the native inhabitant's land but they won't even let them till the fields to put food on their plates.

Damm and they are probably only make half of what it costs to hire a Thai.

[F1fanatic]

28,000 Thais? Cripes that's a big population. $1,000/month = $12,000./annum Pretty good wages compared to what a Thai farm worker gets. What is it now 150 baht/200 baht /day? That makes the wages more like$125-$150/month. I think the Israelis provide room and board whereas the typical Thai farmworker pays for it out of his/her daily wages. I don't know where the Thai worker was making $500/month, (he says the Israeli pay is 2X what he got in Thailand) unless I am clueless on the wages paid on Thai farms. All in all a pretty good arrangement all the same.

Considering this farm and most of the others employing Thais are in undisputed parts of Israel, it would seem that the arabs once again misjudged. However, that shouldn't stop Norway from continuing to fund Hamas. I can't wait for the usual Euro trash to show up and find a way to blame Israel for not having an open border.

I suspect most posters are far more sensible than you realise and understand the Israeli/Palestinian problem does not have any easy solution.

I'm sure most of us have our own sympathies, but most realise that both sides have a genuine argument and have also committed atrocities.

[Jingthing]

Damm and they are probably only make half of what it costs to hire a Thai.

Did you just make that up? Evidence please or retract that slur. Cheers.

[Huey]

Damm and they are probably only make half of what it costs to hire a Thai.

Did you just make that up? Evidence please or retract that slur. Cheers.

Slur? I wasn't trying to slur or offend anyone. And I don't have anything to back it up, it's just my educated guess knowing how horrendus the situtation is in Palestine, that when you add up the costs, tickets, room and board, salary, that you hire a Thai for that you could get a Palestinan for half of that cost. I would like to know if I'm wrong, mabey Bina or someone with some first hand knowledge could say for sure. But I'm betting $500-600 a month for a Palestinian to do the same job.

[Jingthing]

Damm and they are probably only make half of what it costs to hire a Thai.

Did you just make that up? Evidence please or retract that slur. Cheers.

Slur? I wasn't trying to slur or offend anyone. And I don't have anything to back it up, it's just my educated guess knowing how horrendus the situtation is in Palestine, that when you add up the costs, tickets, room and board, salary, that you hire a Thai for that you could get a Palestinan for half of that cost. I would like to know if I'm wrong, mabey Bina or someone with some first hand knowledge could say for sure. But I'm betting $500-600 a month for a Palestinian to do the same job.

Just like I thought, you made it up. And now you are backtracking saying it about the extra costs not the pay to the workers. Another point, do you actually believe most Israelis are HAPPY that they feel so afraid of violence that they can't hire their Palestinian neighbors? Its a two way street buddy, there is guilt on BOTH sides. Of course, nothing against the Thai workers; its an opportunity for them.

BTW, you may or may not be right that the Palestinian workers get less. Maybe they get more. I don't know and neither do you. I am sure it depends on market forces and employers everywhere (not only Jews dear) generally pay market rates for labor. I am just offended that you made it up and in that context it is a slur unless evidence is provided.

[tb86]

i think your getting a bit carried away with that, its reasonable to asume such a thing.. wouldnt go as far as calling it a slur either

[Jingthing]

i think your getting a bit carried away with that, its reasonable to asume such a thing.. wouldnt go as far as calling it a slur either

Why is it reasonable? The Thais aren't better workers. I am sure the overhead for the Thais is more, but I don't get the assumption that they are paid more.

[Ulysses G.]

The truth is that the wall and the travel restrictions have virtually stopped suicide bombing in Israel. It is too bad that the Palestinians have rejected every peace proposal and elected violent criminals - Hamas - to represent them in Gaza or maybe these measures would not be so necessary.

[Huey]

i think your getting a bit carried away with that, its reasonable to asume such a thing.. wouldnt go as far as calling it a slur either

Thank You tb86, It is an assumption, one I would put money on as well, but a assumption none the less or more for that matter. If you want to read some malace into it thats your personal problem. I'll I'm saying is I bet the locals are cheaper. But Horraay for the Thais. It don't need to be more than that unless you wanna take it there.

[Jingthing]

The truth is that the wall and the travel restrictions have virtually stopped suicide bombing in Israel. It is too bad that the Palestinians have rejected every peace proposal and elected violent criminals - Hamas - to represent them in Gaza or maybe these measures would not be so necessary.

Even though I am pro Israel and of course support a two state solution I recognize there is considerable guilt on BOTH sides, and BOTH sides must make big compromises if these peoples are to ever live in peace. I am not optimistic.

[Ulysses G.]

All true, but Huey seems to think that these restrictions are in place to screw someone, rather than for protection purposes.

[tb86]

id really rather not bicker about something like this, but with a large population of unemployed men and women in close proximity with thier own housing and communites ect, its terribly sad but supply vs demand would tell us that one could possibly have acess to realtivley cheap labor force, just one mans opinion, take it as such

[Jingthing]

All true, but Huey seems to think that these restrictions are in place to screw someone, rather than for protection purposes.

You're correct. He has a posting history of anti-Israeli bias and isn't fooling anyone if he says that he doesn't. These restrictions are very sad for the Israelis (as it shows the peace process has failed) and the Palestinians (hey they need the work), but, yes they were done for security.

[tigerfish]

one question.

how many of you have spent a long length of time in israel/palestine.

apart from our resident mod.

[Pakboong]

About 1,400 Palestinians were killed when Israel launched its last offensive on the Gaza Strip in December 2008.

Ten Israeli soldiers and three civilians also died over the 22-day period of the assault.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleea...65845904380.htm

[Ulysses G.]

It sounds like Hamas should stop shooting missles into Israel.

[Jingthing]

About 1,400 Palestinians were killed when Israel launched its last offensive on the Gaza Strip in December 2008.

Ten Israeli soldiers and three civilians also died over the 22-day period of the assault.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleea...65845904380.htm

Thanks for the old news. Who doesn't know that the Israeli military is very strong compared to what the Palestinians can do? Does that justify Palestinian suicide bombings of civilians to you? OK, maybe it does, I know it does to many. But surely anyone can understand why the Israelis are afraid of the Gazan guest workers, given the state of war.

[tigerfish]

It sounds like Hamas should stop shooting missles into Israel.

two place names and a person

sabra and shatila, ariel sharon.

go figure!

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas and the PLO.

[Huey]

Sure I have my own opinions about the isreali/Palestinian issue. And I'm VERY happy to talk about them. However doing so on these forums only lead to the forum getting shut down and or getting banned. So over a beer, sure, here? It's not worth it, although yes I have more than once gave snippets of how I feel, I'm not inclined to go further here.

[Jingthing]

The point is, there is a state of war there. Both sides mistrust each other, with good reason. Now given this, why should Israelis voluntarily allow their civilians to be at a greater risk (allowing the Gazan workers) than they have to? That would be suicidal. Suicide is a Palestinian thing, not an Israeli thing.

[Huey]

Hamas and the PLO.

Freedom or Death

[Ulysses G.]

doing so on these forums only lead to the forum getting shut down and or getting banned.

Agreed and for good reason. This is a forum about Thailand, not Israel.

[Jingthing]

Hamas and the PLO.

Freedom or Death

Freedom means destroying Israel to these groups, so unless they soften their position, the smart money is on the latter ...

[tigerfish]

Hamas and the PLO.

as i thought, you know nothing about the arab isreali conflict.

hamas wasnt even around when these events took place!

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas and the PLO.

Freedom or Death

Well, it mostly seems to be death.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas and the PLO.

as i thought, you know nothing about the arab isreali conflict.

hamas wasnt even around when these events took place!

Which events are you refering to?

Hamas is certainly guilty of incitement to genocide and of crimes against humanity. Ami Isseroff Jan. 13, 2009

Haviv Rettig Gur , THE JERUSALEM POST

The fighting tactics and ideology of Hamas are a "case study par excellence" of a systematic violation of international humanitarian law, according to a leading expert in international law who visited the Gaza periphery region on Tuesday.

There is "almost no comparable example" anywhere in today's world of a group that so systematically violates international agreements related to armed conflict, Irwin Cotler - a former Canadian justice minister, MP and law professor at Montreal's McGill University - told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.

Hamas is committing at least six violations of international law, Cotler explained.

"First, the deliberate targeting of civilians is in and of itself a war crime," he noted, referring to the Hamas rockets fired at southern towns for eight years.

"A second war crime is when Hamas attacks [from within] civilian areas and civilian structures, whether it be an apartment building, a mosque or a hospital, in order to be immune from a response from Israel," he went on. "Civilians are protected persons, and civilian areas are protected areas. Any use of a civilian infrastructure to launch bombs is itself a war crime."

That Hamas bears legal responsibility for the harm to civilians in areas from which it fires is enshrined throughout international law, he said: "In the general principles of customs binding on nations, in the specific international law of armed conflict [also called] international humanitarian law, in the Fourth Geneva Convention, in decisions of the International Court of Justice and the international criminal tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda - it's all set out there."

Third, he explained, "the misuse and abuse of humanitarian symbols for purposes of launching attacks is called the perfidy principle. For example, using an ambulance to transport fighters or weapons or disguising oneself as a doctor in a hospital, or using a UN logo or flag, are war crimes."

The fourth violation, "of which little has been made, is the prohibition in the Fourth Geneva Convention and international jurisprudence against the direct and public incitement to genocide. The Hamas covenant itself is a standing incitement to genocide. [similarly,] just before this fighting started, I saw Hamas leaders on television referring to Israel and Jews as the sons of apes and pigs."

The fifth crime relates to the scope of the attack on civilians, which upgrades the violation to a crime against humanity. According to Cotler, "when you deliberately hit civilians not infrequently but in a systematic, widespread attack, that's defined in the treaty of the International Criminal Court and international humanitarian law as a crime against humanity."

The final war crime for which Hamas is responsible is the recruitment of children into armed conflict.

"Hamas is a case study of each of these six categories of war crime," said Cotler. Unfortunately, the international community "has been minimizing the manner in which Hamas has engaged in consistent mass-violation of international humanitarian law." http://news.zionism-israel.com/2009/01/ham...es-against.html