Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[johndpoole]

I said take a photo of todays papers in front of a Bangkok landmark.

There you go.

I am in Bangkok.

Now if you are, then you go do the same ? Of if not then admit you are not in Bangkok.

Its easy really.

People who can, do.

People who cannot, whine and moan and come up with a 1001 excuses.

It seems only you oddly feel something to prove. The rest of us know were we are, feel no need to prove it but for folks like you to investigate .. it would be easy. Just check our previous posts over the last year. Unlike you, we are not changing user accounts each few hours. And LOL, what landmark is in your "claimed" photo?

EDIT: Thread deleted

[SurinLA]

Well, on the ground here in Bangkok support is very strong for the Reds.

Increasing amounts of traffic with red flags driving around.

I would even suggest support is growing, now that more people are seeing past the propaganda this is "just Thaksin" and realising some people are at last standing up to the elites and their corruption.

Hopefully the House will be dissolved soon and the power returned to the lovely Thai people who can have a vote and excercise their Democratic rights.

Well done the reds, and well done the people of Bangkok for supporting them, cheering them, giving out food and drink !!!!!!!

LOL ... strange that NOBODy supports your views and that they are not seen by anyone that is actually on the ground in Thailand

That there are SOME taxi-drivers that are pro Thaksin is true. Other than that your post is just subjective propoganda.

Well, I am in Bangkok and have proved it.

I can only suggest either those commentating here are not actually in Bangkok (likely).

Perhaps someone else in Bangkok would like to verify they are in Bangkok and then comment on the situation ? I mean, am I the only person here actually in Bangkok ? Its looking that way.

Support is strong for the Reds and its why the government have let deadline after deadline slip, they dare not use force as support is toooooo strong.

Can any other people explain why all these deadlines keep passing ? Each time the government make a deadline and let is pass they look weaker and weaker and weaker so please do not say they are doing it because they want to.

.

Support is strong from who? I am not in Bangkok but I am watching live TV from different channel. People are looking for the shades because it is so hot. It is about 5 - 6000 left at Rajaprasong. Nobody goes around giving food and water beside their own people(reds).

Cars with REDS driving around are the same cars drove around yesterday.

The don't use forces because they don't want to harm fellow Thais. The deadlines keep passing because they don't want any confrontation and those crazy leaders are crazys and they can harm the city and people.

There are update news regularly on internet or tvs.

[RedJay]

Well, on the ground here in Bangkok support is very strong for the Reds.

Increasing amounts of traffic with red flags driving around.

I would even suggest support is growing, now that more people are seeing past the propaganda this is "just Thaksin" and realising some people are at last standing up to the elites and their corruption.

Hopefully the House will be dissolved soon and the power returned to the lovely Thai people who can have a vote and excercise their Democratic rights.

Well done the reds, and well done the people of Bangkok for supporting them, cheering them, giving out food and drink !!!!!!!

LOL ... strange that NOBODy supports your views and that they are not seen by anyone that is actually on the ground in Thailand

That there are SOME taxi-drivers that are pro Thaksin is true. Other than that your post is just subjective propoganda.

I was at Siam last night about 11pm, walked through the entire rally, and I would have to say I had a strong 'feeling' from people in the crowd that they are expressing themselves w/o reservation. Just good Thai people who want their country to consider their views.

As I left I could see many people coming to join the rally. Besides, night time is the best time to be out and about in BKK this time of year.

Well said.

It is only the biased local press under the ownership of Yellow and some TVF poster who seem to try to always say its Thaksin (maybe because the TVF posters are not in Thailand and so rely on the Yellow owned papers for their on line news ?)

Its not any more, its bigger than that and he is just one part of the Reds, one sub-faction.

This is about Democracy in Thailand and getting the power back from the elite and giving it to the people.

.

[blaze]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

As someone opposing a movement- it is not wise to underestimate the dedication of your enemy. History is redolent with pasty faced white people sipping gin on their colonial verandahs dismissing the distant native drum beats as nothing more than a sign of restlessness. Pip pip old chap- nothing to be alarmed at.. no threat whatsoever!

Edited April 4, 2010 by blaze

[johndpoole]

Well, I am in Bangkok and have proved it. ...

Actually no you haven't.

You only proved you know someone who is in Bangkok

and can send you a picture by email.

Absolutely NO PROOF.

As if we really care where the propaganda program is based

or has agents in residence.

All his effort to prove he is in BKK seems more likely he is not even here. I think he protests too much over something only he is obsessed with. One would have to assume he is on some portable device to have had this picture so ready to share after his typing his demands for people to submit photos. He was doing the same thing early in the morning under the name JW2010 on a different thread ... same exact demand of the same type of picture.

[RedJay]

Well, on the ground here in Bangkok support is very strong for the Reds.

Increasing amounts of traffic with red flags driving around.

I would even suggest support is growing, now that more people are seeing past the propaganda this is "just Thaksin" and realising some people are at last standing up to the elites and their corruption.

Hopefully the House will be dissolved soon and the power returned to the lovely Thai people who can have a vote and excercise their Democratic rights.

Well done the reds, and well done the people of Bangkok for supporting them, cheering them, giving out food and drink !!!!!!!

Nice comments! Our family supports the reds as well. A very passionate lot they are. No more coups and bullshit disqualifications (A cooking show? That's the best they could do?)

Democracy is worth a few inconveniences, you know. Most of our home countries went through a few "inconveniences" to say the least to establish our coupless democratic societies where leaders are ACTUALLY ELECTED.

Thanks for speaking out. Its about time the "Truth" had a chance to shine and the Yellow propaganda stop.

This is about the Thai people and their demands for Democracy and the fight against the elites stranglehold on power and force.

Time for lunch and a nice massage

Edited April 4, 2010 by RedJay

[kissdani]

This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.

We've got an image enhanced using Adobe® Photoshop® software, folks. Nice try.

[johndpoole]

Anybody else need proof? I can email you. LMAO

[way2muchcoffee]

Folks be careful. There may be some agent provocateurs on board who would relentlessly bait people into slipping up and getting themselves suspended or banned. I urge all to exercise caution.

Edited April 4, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Moonrakers]

Well, I am in Bangkok and have proved it. ...

Actually no you haven't.

You only proved you know someone who is in Bangkok

and can send you a picture by email.

Absolutely NO PROOF.

As if we really care where the propaganda program is based

or has agents in residence.

All his effort to prove he is in BKK seems more likely he is not even here. I think he protests too much over something only he is obsessed with. One would have to assume he is on some portable device to have had this picture so ready to share after his typing his demands for people to submit photos. He was doing the same thing early in the morning under the name JW2010 on a different thread ... same exact demand of the same type of picture.

For goodness sakes people. Who really gives a flying one about where he is anyway, stop feeding him and maybe he will stop this crap.

[frodo]

Isn't this thread about Thai Protesters in Bangkok?

Frankly, I'm getting rather tired of having to read through pages upon pages of trollish posts about who's who in Bangkok. Many of us don't give a hoot where you live.

Maybe start a social thread in the Bangkok forum?

[lannarebirth]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

Yeah, I think people object to that, here in Thailand and everywhere else too. I object to that and I'm sure you do too. That is not the aim of this partcular protest however, and even if the protest were successful in toppling this government, it is my sincere belief that the goal of achieving a fairer and more egalitarian society would be pushed FURTHER away. It is my belief, and I am a Red Shirt supporter, is that no government has ever done more or intends to do more to achieve the Red Shirts stated goals than the present one, imperfect as it is.

Edited April 4, 2010 by lannarebirth

[johndpoole]

Well, I am in Bangkok and have proved it. ...

Actually no you haven't.

You only proved you know someone who is in Bangkok

and can send you a picture by email.

Absolutely NO PROOF.

As if we really care where the propaganda program is based

or has agents in residence.

All his effort to prove he is in BKK seems more likely he is not even here. I think he protests too much over something only he is obsessed with. One would have to assume he is on some portable device to have had this picture so ready to share after his typing his demands for people to submit photos. He was doing the same thing early in the morning under the name JW2010 on a different thread ... same exact demand of the same type of picture.

For goodness sakes people. Who really gives a flying one about where he is anyway, stop feeding him and maybe he will stop this crap.

The most sanest response yet ... how do you activate the ignore feature? I know I saw it here somewhere but am missing where it is now.

[pimay11]

Well, I am in Bangkok and have proved it. ...

Actually no you haven't.

You only proved you know someone who is in Bangkok

and can send you a picture by email.

Absolutely NO PROOF.

As if we really care where the propaganda program is based

or has agents in residence.

All his effort to prove he is in BKK seems more likely he is not even here. I think he protests too much over something only he is obsessed with. One would have to assume he is on some portable device to have had this picture so ready to share after his typing his demands for people to submit photos. He was doing the same thing early in the morning under the name JW2010 on a different thread ... same exact demand of the same type of picture.

For goodness sakes people. Who really gives a flying one about where he is anyway, stop feeding him and maybe he will stop this crap.

Good advice. By now we all understand his intentions. Just ignore him and hopefully he will go away.

[Indo-Siam]

At the very peak of Red Shirt accomplishment - that being during their "around the city" caravan two Saturdays ago - the total population of Red Shirt participants in Bangkok might have possibly hit 300,000 Thais - that being 75,000 participants, and three times that many spectators showing approval. Or - if I am significantly off - it could possibly have been 90,000 participants, and four times as many spectators - for a total of 450,000 Thais. That out of a city of 10,000,000 Thais. That's less than 5% - at the peak.

Any Red Shirt supporter can claim that there many more supporters - but look at the story: The Red Shirt leadership has consistently been BEGGING for popular reinforcement - every hour of every day - and it is pretty clear that the entire Red Menace spectacle will peter out and fail unless the Red Shirt movement creates a critical mass of protesters that is a LOT more than the 60,000 that are presently out there. If you are a Red Shirt supporter in Bangkok, and you do not actively join them - then you are really not a committed supporter. You are merely sympathetic to their grievances - but not necessarily approving of their methods.

By everything I've seen, the actual number of active, committed Red Shirt supporters - that is, the UNPAID participants, who participate out of political awareness and fervor - instead of simply being paid "extras" in a drama performance - may be as low at 10,000 to 15,000 people. Not a very impressive number - comparable to the PAD extremists 18 months ago

Anyone who says that the broad population of Bangkok is significantly behind the Red Shirts is simply delusional. Perhaps 5% are significantly pro-Red, and possibly another 5% are somewhat sympathetic. Similarly, 5% are vehemently opposed to the Reds, and another 5% are quite negative against them. The other 80% of the population is unaligned, and simply does not care - and it is this 80% that will slowly be pushed into the anti-Red camp if the Reds continue their disruptive stunts. Even then, they will not be politically anti-Red - they are simply anti-anarchy and anti-chaos.

The Reds are proving daily that they view anarchy as an acceptable state of affairs - in someone else's neighborhood.

We are now approaching the point where the sitting government will face a crisis - for the simple reason that it has issued ultimatums - but is demonstrating that it is not able to enforce those ultimatums. It is thus on the path toward falling into the Red's trap - if the Government is no longer able to exert sovereign control over its capital city, then that Government does not deserve to remain in power. Within days, the Government either has to fold its cards - or it has to take the unpleasant step of finally cracking down on the mob.

In my opinion, what the Government ought to do is snatch the top 10-20 leaders of the Reds - detained for insurrection. But - I guess that is easier said than done.

It will truly be sad if the 80% of the protesters who are just there to earn money as extras get hurt. The are truly pawns in the game, and too ignorant of what is really going on to grasp the potential danger they are in.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Indo-Siam

[johncitizen]

ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE UDD:

1. The area around the Rachaprasong

intersection is public space, not government/ official space.

Article 63 of the Constitution states that the public have the right

to assemble.

2. Constitutional law is the highest

form of law in the country, and gives people the right to assemble.

Therefore, according to this constitutional right, any notification

by the government to try to prohibit this assembly is invalid and

cannot be enforced.

3.

Any arrest or control of the

population who are exercising their right to peaceful protest, free

from weapons, is illegal according to the law of the land.

4.

Demands by the public for the

government to dissolve parliament are demands made in accordance

with the law and the principles of democracy. Therefore, government

officials do not have the authority to quell or disperse the

protester's assembly.

[animatic]

johndpoole, it is against all Forum guidelines to take someone elses post and doctor it. You have modified my photo and you have broken all forum rules, and you have been reported for it.

It will win you no favours trying to play games like that, my photo is original, that you can doctor it is not of any importance, it shows how desperate you are as you appear, like many others, to not be in Bangkok.

I have verified, in good faith, to all that I am in Bangkok and can comment on the situation in Bangkok from 1st hand viewing of events.

You have now verified that you are likely not in Bangkok and you can doctor original posts and photo's of other forum members. Such behaviour shows everyone that you are certainly not trustworthy !!!!!

"Broken All forum rules." Not hardly.

You joined today and are lecturing about forum rules all ready... ROTFLOL

most newbies are a bit shy... I guess you're a TVF Kraisu with a back story you're not telling.

Once that photo was posted to TVF data base it became public domain via TVF,

and by freedom to parody laws he could COPY it and make a parody.

It came across as a joke anyway.

Simply put your PHOTO op proved nothing what soever about your location...

I could get a photo from a friend done in 20 minutes and post it and say I am in Bangkok.

A useless effort.

[jfchandler]

Here's what I would suggest as a reasonable/sensible yardstick by which to measure who should be leading Thailand....regardless of their shirt color.

Which person as PM, and which party in leadership, is willing to put the best interests of the country and the regular Thai citizens over their own personal financial and political self-interests....

I'm not sure which person or group can meet that standard. But I'm pretty darned sure, Thaksin and his cronies cannot...

[Neurath]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

As someone opposing a movement- it is not wise to underestimate the dedication of your enemy. History is redolent with pasty faced white people sipping gin on their colonial verandahs dismissing the distant native drum beats as nothing more than a sign of restlessness. Pip pip old chap- nothing to be alarmed at.. no threat whatsoever!

There seems to be a fairly widespread perception that the larger part of this conflict isn't over instituting a system whereby all people will be equal under the law but rather over who will be above it and who under it. There's world of difference between these two things and I'm not convinced the leadership of the Red's, and certainly not Taksin supporters, understand or want to understand it.

[blaze]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

Yeah, I think people object to that, here in Thailand and everywhere eklse too. I object to that and I'm sure you do too. That is not the aim of this partcular protest however, and even if the protest were successful in toppling this government, it is my sincere belief that the goal of achieving a fairer and more egalitarian society would be pushed FURTHER away. It is my belief, and I am a Red Shirt supporter, is that np government has ever done more or intends to do more to achieve their stated goals than the present one, imperfect as it is.

Is it not the aim? Is the core of poverty in most third world/developing countries not the need of the elites to keep the poor away from power- Maybe the redshirts can not- or do not- articulate the frustration the way I might- that doesn't mean that frustration is not what is fueling this. (read about the jaqueries =- the peasant revolts- of Europe- unfocused- grabbing at ideological straws- but born of genuine dissatisfaction with the status quo as they perceived it==- and those who had ignored the mounting frustration, paid a terrible price.)

Thaksin was a SOB- but he was THEIR SOB- and to them, I think, that his treatment is interpreted as further evidence of the contempt with which the elites hold the poor- and the extent they will go to to deprive the poor of any kind of voice. In that sense, Thaksin may be nothing more than a symbol.

[traderjm]

They were paid for gas, not to protest. Of course, you can twist it, I'll give you that. You obviously have never been outside of Bangkok and don't own a car either. Driving from Chiang Mai or the North-East to Bangkok costs more than just the 2,000 Baht they received. They probably paid another 500 or 1,000 from their own pockets to get here. Not to mention going back (though you're right, they could get another 2,000 Baht to drive 70% back home).

And so they're being paid 500 Baht to protest? That's still over 1 billion Baht.

Goodness you are wrong with anything you say, I actually own two cars in BKK I get out of the city quite a bit, but you are in fact right I have NEVER been to Issan for a vacation. I am not sure what you think you know but the fact is nobody in the RED camp is denying the protesters are being 500 baht per day to protest... that is above and beyond any other expenses that are being covered..

Plus nobody doubted your math I am sure giving ONE of 30 or so BILLION square Jaw has left will be more than worth it if it gives him what he and his mob wants... you need to get out more a lot more.

[dobadoy]

Jw, redjay, trollboy, whatever your name is, how do you figure - i watched Man Utd play Chelsea last night, more red shirts at Man Utd than there are at Siam Square, but by your logic man utd must have the support of all the people of england.

(edit: sorry to all for throwing out the troll bait, just saw moonrakers excellent post above.)

Edited April 4, 2010 by dobadoy

[blaze]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

As someone opposing a movement- it is not wise to underestimate the dedication of your enemy. History is redolent with pasty faced white people sipping gin on their colonial verandahs dismissing the distant native drum beats as nothing more than a sign of restlessness. Pip pip old chap- nothing to be alarmed at.. no threat whatsoever!

There seems to be a fairly widespread perception that the larger part of this conflict isn't over instituting a system whereby all people will be equal under the law but rather over who will be above it and who under it. There's world of difference between these two things and I'm not convinced the leadership of the Red's, and certainly not Taksin supporters, understand or want to understand it.

I share your skeptisim- this could be nothing more than a desire to replace one set of pooyais with another. But maybe it isn't. Maybe it is the beginning of an assault on the culture of dependency which all paternalistic societies foster. Whether or not the demonstraters articulate it as such.

[way2muchcoffee]

ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE UDD:

1. The area around the Rachaprasong

intersection is public space, not government/ official space.

Article 63 of the Constitution states that the public have the right

to assemble.

2. Constitutional law is the highest

form of law in the country, and gives people the right to assemble.

Therefore, according to this constitutional right, any notification

by the government to try to prohibit this assembly is invalid and

cannot be enforced.

3.

Any arrest or control of the

population who are exercising their right to peaceful protest, free

from weapons, is illegal according to the law of the land.

4.

Demands by the public for the

government to dissolve parliament are demands made in accordance

with the law and the principles of democracy. Therefore, government

officials do not have the authority to quell or disperse the

protester's assembly.

Perhaps they should have read Section 62.

Section 62: A person shall enjoy the liberty to assemble peacefully and without arms.

Restriction on such liberty under paragraph one shall not be imposed except by virtue

of the law specifically enacted for the case of public assembling and for securing public

convenience in the use of public places or for maintaining peace and order during the

time when the country is in a state of war or when a state of emergency or martial law is

declared.

[lannarebirth]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

Yeah, I think people object to that, here in Thailand and everywhere else too. I object to that and I'm sure you do too. That is not the aim of this partcular protest however, and even if the protest were successful in toppling this government, it is my sincere belief that the goal of achieving a fairer and more egalitarian society would be pushed FURTHER away. It is my belief, and I am a Red Shirt supporter, is that no government has ever done more or intends to do more to achieve the Red Shirts stated goals than the present one, imperfect as it is.

Is it not the aim? Is the core of poverty in most third world/developing countries not the need of the elites to keep the poor away from power- Maybe the redshirts can not- or do not- articulate the frustration the way I might- that doesn't mean that frustration is not what is fueling this. (read about the jaqueries =- the peasant revolts- of Europe- unfocused- grabbing at ideological straws- but born of genuine dissatisfaction with the status quo as they perceived it==- and those who had ignored the mounting frustration, paid a terrible price.)

Thaksin was a SOB- but he was THEIR SOB- and to them, I think, that his treatment is interpreted as further evidence of the contempt with which the elites hold the poor- and the extent they will go to to deprive the poor of any kind of voice. In that sense, Thaksin may be nothing more than a symbol.

In their day to day lives no group of people suppresses the freedoms of the Thai peasantry more than their local chao por and the police. Interestingly, both groups are aligned with this movement that says it seeks to empower these very same people. You don't think there's a rub there?

[way2muchcoffee]

Also Article 70 might be appropriate.

Section 70: Every person shall have the duty to defend the country and obey the law.

[Siripon]

At the very peak of Red Shirt accomplishment - that being during their "around the city" caravan two Saturdays ago - the total population of Red Shirt participants in Bangkok might have possibly hit 300,000 Thais - that being 75,000 participants, and three times that many spectators showing approval. Or - if I am significantly off - it could possibly have been 90,000 participants, and four times as many spectators - for a total of 450,000 Thais. That out of a city of 10,000,000 Thais. That's less than 5% - at the peak.

Any Red Shirt supporter can claim that there many more supporters - but look at the story: The Red Shirt leadership has consistently been BEGGING for popular reinforcement - every hour of every day - and it is pretty clear that the entire Red Menace spectacle will peter out and fail unless the Red Shirt movement creates a critical mass of protesters that is a LOT more than the 60,000 that are presently out there. If you are a Red Shirt supporter in Bangkok, and you do not actively join them - then you are really not a committed supporter. You are merely sympathetic to their grievances - but not necessarily approving of their methods.

By everything I've seen, the actual number of active, committed Red Shirt supporters - that is, the UNPAID participants, who participate out of political awareness and fervor - instead of simply being paid "extras" in a drama performance - may be as low at 10,000 to 15,000 people. Not a very impressive number - comparable to the PAD extremists 18 months ago

Anyone who says that the broad population of Bangkok is significantly behind the Red Shirts is simply delusional. Perhaps 5% are significantly pro-Red, and possibly another 5% are somewhat sympathetic. Similarly, 5% are vehemently opposed to the Reds, and another 5% are quite negative against them. The other 80% of the population is unaligned, and simply does not care - and it is this 80% that will slowly be pushed into the anti-Red camp if the Reds continue their disruptive stunts. Even then, they will not be politically anti-Red - they are simply anti-anarchy and anti-chaos.

The Reds are proving daily that they view anarchy as an acceptable state of affairs - in someone else's neighborhood.

We are now approaching the point where the sitting government will face a crisis - for the simple reason that it has issued ultimatums - but is demonstrating that it is not able to enforce those ultimatums. It is thus on the path toward falling into the Red's trap - if the Government is no longer able to exert sovereign control over its capital city, then that Government does not deserve to remain in power. Within days, the Government either has to fold its cards - or it has to take the unpleasant step of finally cracking down on the mob.

In my opinion, what the Government ought to do is snatch the top 10-20 leaders of the Reds - detained for insurrection. But - I guess that is easier said than done.

It will truly be sad if the 80% of the protesters who are just there to earn money as extras get hurt. The are truly pawns in the game, and too ignorant of what is really going on to grasp the potential danger they are in.

The government is well aware of the trap of issung a state of emergency and then not being able to enforce it without a serious loss of life which is why I think you're on the right track regarding arrests of the leaders. Warrants are being issued and I think in the next 48 hours we will see this happen.

The UDD went for the economic jugular because driving around Bangkok on Saturdays was not going to sway the government.

So the government have to move the protestors without falling into the 'brutal suppression' trap, otherwise the business sector and ordinary Bangkokians will start squealing.

[Neurath]

Let's be honest here, this is the only "Double Standard" that Thaksin and his paid supporters care about:

Is that right? Nobody objects to the arbitrary application of law (including traffic laws), the know your place mentality of beaurocratic officals at most levels, the fact that the poor are expected to kow-tow to the powerful? Is there not a wide spread perception that the powerful and rich and well placed get away with stuff that would see the average joe behind bars in a heartbeat? And nobody minds that?

As someone opposing a movement- it is not wise to underestimate the dedication of your enemy. History is redolent with pasty faced white people sipping gin on their colonial verandahs dismissing the distant native drum beats as nothing more than a sign of restlessness. Pip pip old chap- nothing to be alarmed at.. no threat whatsoever!

There seems to be a fairly widespread perception that the larger part of this conflict isn't over instituting a system whereby all people will be equal under the law but rather over who will be above it and who under it. There's world of difference between these two things and I'm not convinced the leadership of the Red's, and certainly not Taksin supporters, understand or want to understand it.

I share your skeptisim- this could be nothing more than a desire to replace one set of pooyais with another. But maybe it isn't. Maybe it is the beginning of an assault on the culture of dependency which all paternalistic societies foster. Whether or not the demonstraters articulate it as such.

[edit, misread quote!]

I just find it very hard feel a great deal of sympathy for movement that has Thaksin as its mascot (and he is at least that) - a man who did so much to destroy the rule of law and constitutional government - and Chalerm as its titular parliamentary leader (a man who has also done so much for the rule of law and it's equal application to friend, foe and family.) My feeling listening to what Jatuporn et.al. have to say is that they are unhappy about have particular masters - not that they're unhappy having masters per-se. Their justifactory vocabulary concerning 'democracy' seems to be just that - a justificatory vocabulary. Dangerous, very dangerous as we've seen in this region over the last 40 years.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Neurath

[blaze]

In their day to day lives no group of people suppresses the freedoms of the Thai peasantry more than their local chao por and the police. Interestingly, both groups are aligned with this movement that says it seeks to empower these very same people. You don't think there's a rub there?

This would not be the first 'revolution' to turn on those who have 'joined' it for what is perceived by the grass roots as ideologically impure reasons. OK that's a bit wordy- but I think you get my drift. If the people have learned that they can, as a united force, challenge not just the gov't but the Privy council= what is to stop them challenging those who exploit them day by day- regardless of what color shirt the powermongers wore back in the halcion days of 2010?

But I fear that I am being too idealistic- it takes generations to change a culture- especially one where well being is determined by playing ball in the arena of nobless oblige- still- this might be a beginning.

My worst fear, which I think I share with you, is that this will turn out to be nothing more than a demand for rights- but no committment to responsibilities. But like all fears- that is projection into a dimension none of us can know. The mere fact that the nature of Thai society- the cultural underpinnings are being questioned can not be a bad thing.

[kissdani]

Support is strong from who? I am not in Bangkok but I am watching live TV from different channel. People are looking for the shades because it is so hot. It is about 5 - 6000 left at Rajaprasong. Nobody goes around giving food and water beside their own people(reds).

Cars with REDS driving around are the same cars drove around yesterday.

The don't use forces because they don't want to harm fellow Thais. The deadlines keep passing because they don't want any confrontation and those crazy leaders are crazys and they can harm the city and people.

There are update news regularly on internet or tvs.

Hi!

What channel you are looking?

I have here only Thai television and there comes nothing about some red masses in Bangkok. Just Abhisit from time to time, He talks about thai strength trough unity. And a lot of clips with happy people waving the Thai flag are shown or your daily soaps. but nothing about red people power.

The whole red thing is a total hoax. Don't get panic.

Sathorn has sunshine and is quite like it is on sunday.

How is the weather in LA?