Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[lothda]

Abhisit was put in power by those who were legally elected... thus he is democratically elected.... why do some people have an issue with this.. are they completely ignorant..?

Thanks... say it again and again until people understand...

[johndpoole]

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

The yellow shirts and their pet politicians managed a coup to oust Thaksin and then their puppet politicians managed to oust the two other two legally elected PM's. You could call Abhisit legally elected, but that is quite a push. You are not happy with the politicians? Wait for the next election rather than oust three legally elected PM's.

Like it or not the current government owes the yellow shirts BIG time. If Abhisit holds elections within six months, I think the red shirts are being unreasonable if they refuse to accept those terms.

You don't think the Reds are being unreasonable now since the PM already agreed to elections in 9-months (a year ahead of schedule) and they have not budged from 15-days (even though 15 days has come and gone)? Should the PM keep throwing out numbers and offers to a group who has made clear they will not negotiate until their demands are met?

Can you imagine George Bush agreeing to hold elections a year early because he was not majority elected by the people and instead relied on a court order to become president. I really have huge respect for the PM and leaders for making this offer for the sake of Thailand and not solely their own gains. Rememeber, they are legally in office now and a court has ruled so and nobody other court has over ruled or it been legally contested.

[johncitizen]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

[TheOldWolf]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Really???

[johndpoole]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Actually the Reds have been very clear that 15 days is the number. Abhisit has offered 9-months and is open for talking more but the Reds are not willing to talk until after their demands are agreed to ... in other words, they refuse to negotiate or try to find compromise or common ground.

This is what happens when you have no true agenda except that of somebody else who is pulling your strings from far away because they are on the run from the law.

[KireB]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Which UDD leader stated that? Because I clearly remember Jatuporn clinging on to the non-negotiable 15 days.

Enlighten us!

[frodo]

If a crackdown does occur, what will the leaders do? Any bets they'll pull a Jakrapob and flee leaving the uneducated poor alone to make decisions on their own.

[Gary A]

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

The yellow shirts and their pet politicians managed a coup to oust Thaksin and then their puppet politicians managed to oust the two other two legally elected PM's. You could call Abhisit legally elected, but that is quite a push. You are not happy with the politicians? Wait for the next election rather than oust three legally elected PM's.

Like it or not the current government owes the yellow shirts BIG time. If Abhisit holds elections within six months, I think the red shirts are being unreasonable if they refuse to accept those terms.

You don't think the Reds are being unreasonable now since the PM already agreed to elections in 9-months (a year ahead of schedule) and they have not budged from 15-days (even though 15 days has come and gone)? Should the PM keep throwing out numbers and offers to a group who has made clear they will not negotiate until their demands are met?

Can you imagine George Bush agreeing to hold elections a year early because he was not majority elected by the people and instead relied on a court order to become president. I really have huge respect for the PM and leaders for making this offer for the sake of Thailand and not solely their own gains. Rememeber, they are legally in office now and a court has ruled so and nobody other court has over ruled or it been legally contested.

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

[Netfan]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Where and when did they say 2 months? Which of their spokesmen? Did Thaksin give his approval? Abhisit has come down from the regular election in 20 months. Last I heard -today- the Reds were still demanding dissolution within 15 days.

At any rate, what the government should have done is announced the Chelsea-Man U game was being televised at National Stadium for free. When the crowd moved there, just lock the gates.

[TheOldWolf]

From today:

Jatuporn says red shirts will do everything to pressure PM to dissolve House

Jatuporn Promphan announced Saturday that the red-shirt people would do everything to pressure the government to dissolve the House.

Speaking at the Rajprasong Intersection, he said the blockade of the intersection was considered as the means to least affect the Bangkokians.

"We will try to minimise the effects on Bangkokians but we need to do everything to pressure the government to dissolve the House," Jatuporn said.

He said the red-shirt people would continue their rally at the Rajprasong Intersection as long as they want.

Weng Tojirakarn said the red-shirt movement would step up pressure to force the government to dissolve the House in 15 days.

[lannarebirth]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Which UDD leader stated that? Because I clearly remember Jatuporn clinging on to the non-negotiable 15 days.

Enlighten us!

Veera. He did not offer it. It "slipped out" more than anything, as a "possibility" but they moved on quickly as his 2 co-leaders started rambling.

[granuaile]

I really feel sorry for the people from my village here in Issan who were inticed to join the rally (about 100) because they are now potentially in harms way. These are salt of the earth people. Of course they are making three times as much daily wages and sending money back to the family weekly. As I stated in a previous post the man who works for me has eight extended family members who joined the rally. They do not have a clue as to why this is all happening but are happy to participate for the money.

You know this is the sad thing. When the redshirts marched down Latphrao, I felt like they were mostly good people. I know last year there was a lot of violence, and I have been worried there will be this year,.... but the people I saw marching and riding their motorcycles I felt like were good people. I thought they were being used, very badly, and I hoped the people whose faces I saw all managed to get back home safely. I still hope that. Maybe they will end up being used by the redshirt leaders, the really culpable party here, in violence, or perhaps they will be hurt, arrested, and even imprisoned. I hope not,... and I think it is the leadership that should be imprisoned... You know I think the government has acted with far more restraint than you would see in the US where I am from. There would be armed troops not unarmed ones, nuns have been sent to prison for throwing blood on WMDs in the US....

You know if I thought this was really about the rights of poor people, I would maybe be supportive. But it isn't. When they marched down Latphrao it was clear it was about Thaksin, not the rights of poor people. I hope most go home safely and without being arrested...

[johndpoole]

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

The yellow shirts and their pet politicians managed a coup to oust Thaksin and then their puppet politicians managed to oust the two other two legally elected PM's. You could call Abhisit legally elected, but that is quite a push. You are not happy with the politicians? Wait for the next election rather than oust three legally elected PM's.

Like it or not the current government owes the yellow shirts BIG time. If Abhisit holds elections within six months, I think the red shirts are being unreasonable if they refuse to accept those terms.

You don't think the Reds are being unreasonable now since the PM already agreed to elections in 9-months (a year ahead of schedule) and they have not budged from 15-days (even though 15 days has come and gone)? Should the PM keep throwing out numbers and offers to a group who has made clear they will not negotiate until their demands are met?

Can you imagine George Bush agreeing to hold elections a year early because he was not majority elected by the people and instead relied on a court order to become president. I really have huge respect for the PM and leaders for making this offer for the sake of Thailand and not solely their own gains. Rememeber, they are legally in office now and a court has ruled so and nobody other court has over ruled or it been legally contested.

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

I regret that you are unable to comprehend the similarity between these two events and why it is important for Thais to understand how democracy, constitutions and elections can work in a country that has been practicing democracy for more than 200 years ... but this is not the time or place to try to educate you.

[johndpoole]

I really feel sorry for the people from my village here in Issan who were inticed to join the rally (about 100) because they are now potentially in harms way. These are salt of the earth people. Of course they are making three times as much daily wages and sending money back to the family weekly. As I stated in a previous post the man who works for me has eight extended family members who joined the rally. They do not have a clue as to why this is all happening but are happy to participate for the money.

You know this is the sad thing. When the redshirts marched down Latphrao, I felt like they were mostly good people. I know last year there was a lot of violence, and I have been worried there will be this year,.... but the people I saw marching and riding their motorcycles I felt like were good people. I thought they were being used, very badly, and I hoped the people whose faces I saw all managed to get back home safely. I still hope that. Maybe they will end up being used by the redshirt leaders, the really culpable party here, in violence, or perhaps they will be hurt, arrested, and even imprisoned. I hope not,... and I think it is the leadership that should be imprisoned... You know I think the government has acted with far more restraint than you would see in the US where I am from. There would be armed troops not unarmed ones, nuns have been sent to prison for throwing blood on WMDs in the US....

You know if I thought this was really about the rights of poor people, I would maybe be supportive. But it isn't. When they marched down Latphrao it was clear it was about Thaksin, not the rights of poor people. I hope most go home safely and without being arrested...

It is about Thaksin and people who really don't understand that can easily be led. Regretfully it is the strongest that survive and these are the folks throughout history that have been led like lambs to a slaughter.

[Chaimai]

Abhisit was put in power by those who were legally elected... thus he is democratically elected.... why do some people have an issue with this.. are they completely ignorant..?

Thanks... say it again and again until people understand...

This is fundamental to getting to "GO".

The red protestors want the Abhisit to dissolve parliament and hold elections. Abhisit has agreed to this, one year early - OK the red shirts may well have caused the acceleration. Well done, good achievement 15 days reasonable... PLEASE !!

It seems to me that everyone can pretty much have what they want (if properly handled) - free and fair elections in 2553.

NO PROBLEM

Ah! Wait. This seems to exclude the little bloke in exile who is funding the protests.

NO PROBLEM.

This is NOT about Thaksin. We hear it is about the deomocrat right of all of Thailand to elect the government of their choice.

NO PROBLEM.

Simply allow International overseers to assist with ensuring that vote buying is eradicated, then nobody can cry "foul".

Ah! Wait. Where does this leave Thaksin ?

NO PROBLEM.

Let Thaksin come back and serve his legal penalty and he can join mainstream politics at a later date.

[casscada]

Second Round Of Talks With Red Shirts - Updates, MONDAY MARCH 29

THE NATION: Veera: "To lay down rules, two months should be enough."

Bangkokpundit: So Abhisit says end of year; Veera says about 2-3 months. At least we are moving ahead

[jdinasia]

"Our patience is running out, but because of our patriotism we must adhere to non-violence," said Red Shirts leader Jatuporn Prompan.

Strange, I could have sworn just yesterday I watched a video on You Tube where Jatuporn told everyone to come down to Bangkok from Nakhon Nowhere with empty 1 liter bottles that the reds would fill with gasoline for free and if a single drop of thai blood was spilled he'd burn the place down (paraphrased).

Now that doesn't sound anything remotely like adhering to a non-violent agenda. Then again this is thailand, so I could be wrong, but I don't think so. .. .

This entire ploy by the redz taking over a HUGE money maker for thailand, the entire Rajprasong shopping district is akin to a 'game of chicken'.

Each side trying to see if the other will resort to violence first. It's a very frickin' dangerous game for all concerned but especially the average red shirt thai who happens to be out on the street when this 'powder keg' explodes. Believe me the red leaders are too protected to have ANYTHING happen to them.

Given the hateful rhetoric (or the same ol' repackaged <deleted>) the fire-brand red mouthpiece Jatuporn has been spouting today, I think it's down to the end game for the redz, and sadly for all involved; my prediction is the redz will 'chicken out' first and push this to a violent confrontation. A bad end to any day. ..

if the youtube story is true i hope it gets played out on thai national tv tonight.

deos anyone have the link to that vdo?

I think he is confused ... it was a different red thug leader that wanted people to bring the bottles. Arisman

So google arisman youtube

[frodo]

I want to feel for them, but I cannot any longer. It's not about democracy, it's all about whitewashing one man and trying to bring him back.

I'm sitting outside and can hear my neighbors radio. She has it on each night at this time. The rhetoric is angry and the crowds are loving and eating this up. I have felt for some time now, that the red leaders have wanted this all along. They, the leaders and followers, are fully aware by now that they are breaking the law and consequences which can result from their own actions. They have a choice and what happens now is entirely up to them. If they want to return and protest to where they were, they have been given that right. If they want to stay and continue to deny Bangkokians their freedoms and possibly face a crackdown it's on them. They will not be heroes, nor will they be martyrs as the leaders have them believe.

I see the main leader is talking with them from wherever he may be. Naturally, he is proud of them and makes it sound like they are achieving greatness. How many lives will be lost for this man and his money.

Edited April 3, 2010 by frodo

[johndpoole]

Second Round Of Talks With Red Shirts - Updates, MONDAY MARCH 29

THE NATION: Veera: "To lay down rules, two months should be enough."

Bangkokpundit: So Abhisit says end of year; Veera says about 2-3 months. At least we are moving ahead

Not sure why you included Bangkokpundit's take on this but if I am not mistaken this was 2-months being thrown out was more as trying to say the PM was not being genuine when he said it would take 9-months to get new rules in place. Bottom line is what IS VERY clear is that the Reds continue to say 15-days which clearly shows they have not compromised at all.

[bubba]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Who and when even suggested two months on behalf of UDD?

Link?

[orchidlady]

I have been wondering...how are they providing power to their big stage screen, sound systems etc. Do they have portable generators...where are they getting the electricity to run them.? Both at Sanum Luang and now at the Erawan intersection. Are they running long extension cords and tapping into electricity someone else is paying for? Don't believe someone should have to pay other than the protestors for their use of electricity. Pull the plug-shut off the electricity...cut off their power to talk to their supporters. What they should have done every time Thaksin called in.

[granuaile]

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

Well as an American I do, and I can assure you no demands like this would be considered acceptable. The comparison is a valid. George Bush assumed the role of president despite questionable activities at the ballot box in 2000 and 2004. I didn't like, I never recognized him as legitimate holder of the office, but no one was marching and demanding dissolution of the government. And if they had engaged in behavior and rhetoric such as the redshirt leaders have here, how long do you think it would take to get the National Guard out? In fact I have been to anti-klan/nazi rallys where National Guard troops were prominent. Armed with automatic weapons, not batons and shields.

[johncitizen]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Edited April 3, 2010 by johncitizen

[lannarebirth]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Who and when even suggested two months on behalf of UDD?

Link?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Talks-Red-Sh....html&st=25

[gregb]

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

Please. Send them to take over the government house and airport. Those targets have very little effect on most of the country. They are high profile, largely symbolic targets that affect a small percentage of the country directly. I didn't agree when the yellows did that either, but at least that was not serious.

The red shirts on the other hand, care not a bit for anyone other than themselves. They selected a target designed to cause maximum inconvenience to millions of Bangkok residents. The yellows at least had some compassion for ordinary citizens. The reds are just being impudent cretins.

I could forgive them for an airport or a government installation. A major intersection however? That demands their immediate removal. No mercy. The two can not even be compared. The reds are 100 times worse than the yellows ever even tried to be.

Edited April 3, 2010 by gregb

[johndpoole]

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

Well as an American I do, and I can assure you no demands like this would be considered acceptable. The comparison is a valid. George Bush assumed the role of president despite questionable activities at the ballot box in 2000 and 2004. I didn't like, I never recognized him as legitimate holder of the office, but no one was marching and demanding dissolution of the government. And if they had engaged in behavior and rhetoric such as the redshirt leaders have here, how long do you think it would take to get the National Guard out? In fact I have been to anti-klan/nazi rallys where National Guard troops were prominent. Armed with automatic weapons, not batons and shields.

CORRECT!! And despite the fact most Americans were unhappy with the courts ruling, we accepted we had to wait until the next elections and hope our guy got elected then. Sure we complained and even maybe gathered in protest but any group who broke the law was arrested.

The problem with Thailand is there are no consistent consequences to people's actions. Regardless of who is in charge or what is going on in the US, you know the law will be enforced.

But let us not forget, like every other country, the US is far from perfect but it has evolved from many of the issues facing Thailand today.

[jdinasia]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Not true

One leader MENTIONED 2-3 months ... then 2 months .. then an SMS and the others started talking and 2 months was gone. They never stated that 2 months was an acceptable compromise and after the meating said there would be no more talks and ONLY 15 days was acceptable. that they would NOT compromise on 15 days. Why? We can only surmise that the answer to why, is that Thaksin NEEDS for the reds to be the ones that try and push through the charter revision. Why is that? To do as they previously tried to do, to whitewash Thaksin's crimes.

Strangely it seems that a coup is an acceptable answer to the Reds. One would assume that is because it would stop the progress the Democrats are making in helping the people of Isaan. The red rank and file will not be able to hold a powerbase in Isaan much longer as the Dems make a functional power base of their own in the area. If they get a coup then they (the reds) can just work on the old song of a coup ... and ignore that the dems have started fixing the BAD populist policies and handouts and are replacing them with functional programs for the welfare of ALL the people in Thailand. (Free schools, free uniforms, better funding for FREE medical care, a government where the military listens to the government and doesn't dictate to it ... etc etc.)

the real thing is ... what will new elections bring? The way things stand now, the current coalition takes less than 50% of the parliament seats and a few less than PTP but STILL form the coalition government.

[Netfan]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Two months is long enough? I hope you are available as an organizer! Candidates have to file and be checked - a few years ago a few were caught using false credentials. More importantly, security has to be in place to ensure the safety of candidates in all areas - don't forget theres a bit of a problem down south as well. Will there be international observers? If so, from where? US, UN, EU? When will they arrive- before the election to check on vote buying? But first and most importantly, will Thaksin approve, because the Reds can't agree to anything without his say so.

[poskat]

.

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

The yellow shirts and their pet politicians managed a coup to oust Thaksin and then their puppet politicians managed to oust the two other two legally elected PM's. You could call Abhisit legally elected, but that is quite a push. You are not happy with the politicians? Wait for the next election rather than oust three legally elected PM's.

Like it or not the current government owes the yellow shirts BIG time. If Abhisit holds elections within six months, I think the red shirts are being unreasonable if they refuse to accept those terms.

You don't think the Reds are being unreasonable now since the PM already agreed to elections in 9-months (a year ahead of schedule) and they have not budged from 15-days (even though 15 days has come and gone)? Should the PM keep throwing out numbers and offers to a group who has made clear they will not negotiate until their demands are met?

Can you imagine George Bush agreeing to hold elections a year early because he was not majority elected by the people and instead relied on a court order to become president. I really have huge respect for the PM and leaders for making this offer for the sake of Thailand and not solely their own gains. Rememeber, they are legally in office now and a court has ruled so and nobody other court has over ruled or it been legally contested.

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

I regret that you are unable to comprehend the similarity between these two events and why it is important for Thais to understand how democracy, constitutions and elections can work in a country that has been practicing democracy for more than 200 years ... but this is not the time or place to try to educate you.

Actually, you are the one who needs education:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2...conducted-media

[Insight]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Two months is long enough? I hope you are available as an organizer! Candidates have to file and be checked - a few years ago a few were caught using false credentials. More importantly, security has to be in place to ensure the safety of candidates in all areas - don't forget theres a bit of a problem down south as well. Will there be international observers? If so, from where? US, UN, EU? When will they arrive- before the election to check on vote buying? But first and most importantly, will Thaksin approve, because the Reds can't agree to anything without his say so.

And lets not forget allegedly the pro-Thaksin side also wants "to make certain arrangements with the military", which is precisely why they want this election in such a ridiculously short time frame.

It's gone 9pm now. The reds won't budge. The BKK residents are fed up.