Bangkok Residents Become Hostages To Red-Shirt Anarchy

[hansnoi]

forget about Thaksin, he's running on a triple mood standard.

Yeah, this Thaksin calling the courts biased, but using the same to sue even now. Think about.

I wonder why non of the red and yellow shirt parties have called on the mediating services of mr. Silvio Berlusconi. Like Thaksin he has a lot of experience in mixing his business and political interests. Like Abhisit he knows how to model the rules of parlementary democracy to his own political advantage. And like many expat members of this forum he loves beautiful women. So he should come immediately to Thailand. I guarantee, in no time all parties embrace each other in tears of laughing and there will be no energy left for bloodshed. To avoid disaster and loss of lifes all means should be tried.

[Publicus]

At the weekend virtually all the big stores in the area were closed. Why?

I get a feeling that the closure of these stores isn't just about security - although they do - of course - have every right to close to the public whenever they want for whatever reason - BUT it also has the effect of being a deliberate - politically motivated move aimed to discredit the Red-Shirt movement in general.

Designed to reinforce the idea to the general public that these ordinary - decent citizens - are an out of control bunch of criminals intent upon criminal activity - which just isn't the case.

I rest my case.

Totally agree. Cutting of their nose to spite their face. Similarly, closing down the underground and not letting commuters out was more of the same.

If there's one thing all this proves its that military coups are no longer going to be tolerated as a panacea for all Thailands problems..... not that they ever were.

Kinda nonsense. Why would they open for the mob who scare away all the other customers? Thaksin and a few others want probably kill the business there to take over? No? I wouldn't cut that window out, there's a high probability and this has always been his style of business, sort of.

On the other hand when people are so sure that the red leaders want democracy then why act like this? If they were going out in small groups with flyers to get attention, many people would notice that they are sincere and it would be a waaaay cheaper. I don't believe for a moment the the red shirt leaders bear democracy in mind, not with these actions. It's just a bunch of anarchists.

"Anarchists" is spot on, exactly to the point. I've been down here at Pandemonium Central since Sunday. I've been with RedShirt people I know and have met many I didn't know - in fact I'm swamped by RedShirts. These people haven't any idea why they're here except they don't like anybody, anything or any alternative. They'll go home for Songkran then wait until the next opportunity to come again to Bangkok to create chaos, havoc and billions in losses. They're anarchists, period. When they aren't dancing and singing, clapping and selling Red memorebilia, they're listening to hate speech, loving it and cheering. They're being very careful not to mention any program or alternative predicate to the present order (messy as it itself may be) nor, as has been pointed out are they handing out leaflets, flyers or statements of philosophy and moral justification of their uncivil disobedience. If they're not anarchists, they're nihilists - Nietzsche may have had some point about Buddhism. Or both.

These Reds also very careful not to mention you-know-who because it would spoil the fun. The people here know that if in making their ruckus and commotion, they were to show a you-know-who square face poster, photo, button, flag, banner, scarf or to say his name, the fun would be over. Thaksin's name in Thailand is shyt and has been shyt for months now, even among the Reds. These Reds swarming around outside this internet cafe where I am at Ratchaprarop, across from the Indra Center/Hotel, know that if the country knew they were acting for Thaksin the country would support a complete sweep of the streets to send these mindless Reds home. Thaksin is involved in this, let there be no doubt. But when he's hiding behind anarchists who enjoy and thrive on shutting down traffic, closing malls and countless shops on the streets, costing individual people their day's pay at work - day after day - Thaksin is showing yet again that it's more important to him to tear the place down than to allow Thailand to continue without Himself. These Reds running about the place are vagrants here, and I strongly suspect they're vagrants back home as well.

The previous violent ideological Reds of Pattaya and Songkran a year ago have been succeeded by Reds who are lighter of spirit and head than their predecessors. These Reds now are flakes. Abhisit is right to wait them out until Songkran when these flakes will drift back northward. It's expensive to the economy and as disruptive as chaos can be disruptive, but so far without violence. Saturday......waiting till Saturday.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Publicus

[JacknDanny]

Hi.

This reply is solely for a user named LevelHead, and i am trying hard not to let it become a flame.

You tell people "go and learn about democracy". At the same time you say that the mob out there is "fighting for democracy".

My friend, i clearly tell you, it is YOU who has to learn a thing or two about democracy.

As to TRT/PPP, they won elections, yes. And they have been disbanded. Did you ever bother checking WHY they both were disbanded..? Correct, electoral fraud. That is, bribing people to vote for them, or, more commonly known as "vote buying". Which is NOT democratic, not the least bit. If you simply pay everyone to vote for you, you don't need a mandate or public support - all you need is a lot of money.

Thaksin has that money, and we all know how he got it - by robbing this very country left, right and center. By mis-using his position as prime minister after the very first and ONLY election that he actually won democratically - and where he very nearly failed right off the start by hiding his assets so clumsily that it was found out. Everyone heard about the often quoted "honest mistake" back then, and only money (as in "bribe the right people") had him keep his new post as prime minister.

From that very moment onward Thaksin's politics was populist - to win the support from the poor and lowly-educated (who are the easiest to reel in with even smallest amounts of money) while at the same time manifesting himself in such a way that a legal removal, be it through elections (more and well-organized, top-to bottom vote buying) nor impeachment ("you can't impeach me", to quote Thaksin himself, i remember that newspaper headline) or other means. He already had control over the police force by having his close friends in all required key positions, the only thing still missing was the army - which did the only thing left to get rid of him - the coup. While Thaksin was in power he threw lawsuits left and right, attempted (somewhat successful) to silence the media and had people overly critical "disappear". His ultimate goal? To be president/dictator of the "Republic of Thailand" on the day the unmentionable happens.

Isn't it a little contradictory that those red-shirted people out there cry "elite-this, elite-that" while their big idol, Thaksin, is a multi-billionaire and no doubt a representative of the very elite none of them will ever have access to? Isn't it him who had nothing to show, except for money?

Yet still the old machine is still running - Thaksin and his money creating mayhem, it is not those people forming the mob but their crazed leaders who are in direct contact with Thaksin to get their battle instructions live from Dubai, Montenegro or where ever. The same people who, pretty elite-ish, stay in air conditioned luxury hotels while their foot soldiers, those bused-in farmers from Isan and Chiang Mai, roam the streets in their red shirts that, ironically, read "Truth Today".

And please, stop going on about "double standards". Here, too, they all but contradict themselves by thinking they alone have the right to protest and state that the pink shirts, yellow shirts or regular Bangkok citizens should shut up, remove their banners and let the reds go where ever they want. If the reds can protest, so can the pinks or yellows or the nud_e ones. Everything else is, yes, double standards. The reds, occupying and terrorizing Bangkok since several weeks now with parades designed to do nothing but create traffic chaos and inconvenience, are after all the ones that managed to stop (under treat of violence!) a registered and permitted gay parade in Chiang Mai which would not have been as large as their own parade in Bangkok and would have taken place on a designated stretch of road cleared for said parade.

So please, LevelHead, go out there and check the reality. Mix with the crowd and talk to some of them. It is something which i did and got surprising answers regarding "Thaksin" and "Abhisit" and nope, i won't state them here because it is nobody's business. Just to let you know - it is YOUR image that is seriously flawed, specially your conception of "democracy".

Best regards......

Thanh

Great Post!

Unfortunately most of the reds on here are either too thick to understand what you are saying, else their poisoned minds are already well and truly welded shut!

[hansnoi]

Funny you mention Berlusconi.

Was explaining situation to a colleague from Serbia and when mentioning T's got a Montenegro passport, he said "No wonder, mafia sticks together".

I said that in that case Thaksin should move to Italy instead, when an italian collague passed, saying "Berlusconi doesn't like competition"...

There you go...

Not by coincidence I mentioned Berlusconi. Know the Italian situation very well and my ironic comment was ment as a reminder for all those on this forum who act as if in western democracies everything goes by the book. But thanks for the good joke. And on a more serious note: I am not an expert in Thai politics. But being here and very interested in what's going on I see many parallels between the Italian political scene and the one in Thailand. OK, there are differences: Thailand is a kingdom and the army seems to play a big role behind the scenes and Italy has the Vatican and the maffia. But the real resemblance between the two is the art of bashing: fruitless blaming the 'bad guy' for everything what is going wrong in the country without offering a real alternative and a united force to lure the voters away from the 'force of all evil'. I hope in the end the Thai will be more smart than the Italians!

[Nuchanart]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

[shawndoc]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Tell them to ask their daughters who they shipped off to Bangkok to work and send money back home. I guarantee you they are familiar with Facebook, Hi5, MSN, and plenty more.

[siampolee]

Nuchanart

[b] Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.
Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.[/b]

Well that proves without a doubt that the rhetoric coming from Thaksin about education etc etc failed miserably, there was not any improvement in literacy levels at all under the Thaksin regimes or overall wealth and living standards for the poor in Thailand.

What a surprise.

Thaksins elite the very class he reinforced via his nepotism, grand theft, corruption and violent policies, the repression of free speech are now the very people he seeks to destroy in his desire to yet again grasp power in his never ending megalomaniac life style.

Why does Thaksin need to do this , can you or will you explain the workings of your Dear Leaders warped mind to we lesser mortals.

Your superior intellect would indeed be beneficial to we poor illiterates in understanding what drives your blind support for a ruthless self serving megalomaniac dictator

Edited April 6, 2010 by siampolee

[LevelHead]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

[traderjm]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Hahahaha, stereotype much?

Just get all those little Issan princesses working the clubs, beauty salons, massage parlors etc... to explain it all to mom and day.. at least they will get education from somewhere, seeing as they have no access anywhere else...

You would think though that with 20 million supporters as claimed by the RED leaders they could muster up at least a million of them that have a computer and know how to use it, if not that does not speak well to the education/IQ level of their 20 million strong team.

[traderjm]

Simple.

Yes, indeed YOU are.

[LuckyFive8888]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

so you think those thai people in facebook are actually farang with multiple account (200,000) and made up their thai names and writing thai scripts on facebook?

i think you haven't eaten yet.

[Who, me ?]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

so you think those thai people in facebook are actually farang with multiple account (200,000) and made up their thai names and writing thai scripts on facebook?

i think you haven't eaten yet.

This guy, Levelhead, is just a troll.....I strongly suggest him to wear a red shirt, a red cap, and to go with his fellow protesters.....He will do something useful for his cause....and we will be better without him here....

[Siripon]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

A lot of people in Issan are bored to death with the red shirts, ask my neighbours.

In a poll 2 days ago 42% of those polled want the government to continue.

The government is not weak, Anupong is. He wouldn't take action against the PAD and he won't against the UDD. He doeasn't want to be remembered like Sujinda.

[SurinLA]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

A lot of people in Issan are bored to death with the red shirts, ask my neighbours.

In a poll 2 days ago 42% of those polled want the government to continue.

The government is not weak, Anupong is. He wouldn't take action against the PAD and he won't against the UDD. He doeasn't want to be remembered like Sujinda.

In my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

[LevelHead]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Majority of Thai's no not use any "social" networking pages.

Thai's remain real people who live in families, who meet face to face and eat together and drink together.

Unlike flakey farangs who think that a computer "socal network" is important.

The younger Thai's use Tagged and Hi-5 and do not use facebook, that is only a very tiny percentage.

Therefore a poll, where anyone in the world can vote (not restricted to Thai ISP's), where the majority of users will be flakey farang or PAD activists and probably many multiple user accounts (1 person having 10 or more user ID's) is not representative of anything.

What is representative is people on the streets in Red. The local silent majority of people supporting the reds and not getting involved in anti-Red protests. The absolute (and I mean near absolute now) support from the whole North and North East, the major population of Thailand who are cheering on the Reds.

The simple fact the government is unable to do anything.

The government is weak, very weak, it does not have the support of the people, it was not the "elected" government, it is a fake "coalition of the greedy" and it needs to be dissolved and new elections held.

Simple.

A lot of people in Issan are bored to death with the red shirts, ask my neighbours.

In a poll 2 days ago 42% of those polled want the government to continue.

The government is not weak, Anupong is. He wouldn't take action against the PAD and he won't against the UDD. He doeasn't want to be remembered like Sujinda.

In my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Thank you for polling every single person in the village, did you conduct a "private poll" allowing them to vote behind closed doors ? or an open poll ?

However, I do not believe your findings, thats my choice

[BigBikeBKK]

so you think those thai people in facebook are actually farang with multiple account (200,000) and made up their thai names and writing thai scripts on facebook?

i think you haven't eaten yet.

Levelhead is most certainly a troll or suffers from a mental condition.

Anyone who can make statements like this is obviously living in complete denial or reality: "The country was running fine under Thaksin and the TRT. There were no problems at all, the people were happy apart from a few elite in Bangkok who were not getting their cut and wanted a return to the Democrats were they get their cut."

Post #28

Thais don't use Facebook? Then the 205+ thousand Thais who have joined the "No dissolution of parliament" page on facebook must represent only a tiny fraction of the huge silent majority who want this nonsense to end.

I find their statement of purpose to be quite compelling:

This group is open for anybody who disagrees with the idea of the dissolution of parliament. To put it simply, we are neither Red nor Yellow. We want to declare our stand in believing that the dissolution of parliament will not lead to a long-term solution, nor will it lead to peace. At this point, our prime minister has done his best and the results have proven his success.

[LevelHead]

Its nice to see the UK government dissolving parliament in a few days and then calling elections in a month (yes just 1 month).

Its easy to do and why are the Democrats/BJT not doing it ?

Of course, should it happen to be that way that there is "vote buying" it takes lots of time to get money into various bank accounts via 3rd and 4th parties so you then hand it out during election campaigns, firstly you must borrow from Japan and other countries, then you must have some big government stimulus projects, then it must be siphoned off and spread about and then moved around and then put into small amounts. The last part possibly takes 9 months. Lets hope none of that happens and THailand has clean elections.

So to prevent the chances of vote buying, a snap election in a month or two would be great for Thailand and great for Democracy !!

If Gordon can, so can you Abhisit !

[brahmburgers]

It's becoming evident that the Red movement is losing credence day by day. Its handful of reps (and their leader in absentia) who showed up for the two days of face to face discussions, were outwitted by the gov't reps. That's a big reason why the Red reps called off further meetings.

The big test will be when there are elections. If the elections were held soon, and the Reds didn't win, you can bet they'd be out demonstrating again. Same could be said for the Yellows. Thais in general need to learn to find a way to accept the results of an election. The way to make changes (if that's what they want) is a subsequent election. Thais are so politically impatient. Whenever they don't have whom they want in power, they want the system changed to try again ...and again - right away.

Thai elections are tainted with vote buying, but that's about as good as can be expected for a fledgling democracy. Hopefully it will get better as voters mature, and realize they can say 'no' to offers of vote buying.

Hopefully, the next election cycles will have open & televised debates, without candidates worrying about defamation suits getting slapped left and right.

[LevelHead]

so you think those thai people in facebook are actually farang with multiple account (200,000) and made up their thai names and writing thai scripts on facebook?

i think you haven't eaten yet.

One person can sign up 100,000 user names, there are no restictions. Google translate can write in Thai for you.

If 10,000 PAD members signed up for 20 names each, you have 200K.

Think about it, why would anyone put a "poll" on facebook which the majority of the millions of Thai people do not even use ?????? Unless its there as a tool of the Yellow shirt PAD.

It is not representative of anything due the ease with which it can be manipulated and abused.

[animatic]

Facebook? What is facebook?

Most PAD people have access to Facebook.

Most UDD people have not even heard of Microsoft, not to mention Facebook.

Tell them to ask their daughters who they shipped off to Bangkok to work and send money back home. I guarantee you they are familiar with Facebook, Hi5, MSN, and plenty more.

Exactly their children know exactly what's happening.

Just like Sea Dangs daughter doesn't agree with her dad's politics.

She is better informed because she hasn't closed her mind already.

[way2muchcoffee]

[in my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Interesting. I've just come back from spending a week in a village in Surin. Based on informal conversations with many folks in the village, listening to their banter etc I would put the distribution there at about:

Pro-Red: 70%

Pro-Government: 10%

Undecided: 20%

[Thai at Heart]

[in my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Interesting. I've just come back from spending a week in a village in Surin. Based on informal conversations with many folks in the village, listening to their banter etc I would put the distribution there at about:

Pro-Red: 70%

Pro-Government: 10%

Undecided: 20%

To be expected. The heartlands of TRT aren't likely to change their views any time soon.

[blaze]

At the weekend virtually all the big stores in the area were closed. Why?

I get a feeling that the closure of these stores isn't just about security - although they do - of course - have every right to close to the public whenever they want for whatever reason - BUT it also has the effect of being a deliberate - politically motivated move aimed to discredit the Red-Shirt movement in general.

Designed to reinforce the idea to the general public that these ordinary - decent citizens - are an out of control bunch of criminals intent upon criminal activity - which just isn't the case.

I rest my case.

Totally agree. Cutting of their nose to spite their face. Similarly, closing down the underground and not letting commuters out was more of the same.

If there's one thing all this proves its that military coups are no longer going to be tolerated as a panacea for all Thailands problems..... not that they ever were.

Kinda nonsense. Why would they open for the mob who scare away all the other customers? Thaksin and a few others want probably kill the business there to take over? No? I wouldn't cut that window out, there's a high probability and this has always been his style of business, sort of.

On the other hand when people are so sure that the red leaders want democracy then why act like this? If they were going out in small groups with flyers to get attention, many people would notice that they are sincere and it would be a waaaay cheaper. I don't believe for a moment the the red shirt leaders bear democracy in mind, not with these actions. It's just a bunch of anarchists.

"Anarchists" is spot on, exactly to the point. I've been down here at Pandemonium Central since Sunday. I've been with RedShirt people I know and have met many I didn't know - in fact I'm swamped by RedShirts. These people haven't any idea why they're here except they don't like anybody, anything or any alternative. They'll go home for Songkran then wait until the next opportunity to come again to Bangkok to create chaos, havoc and billions in losses. They're anarchists, period. When they aren't dancing and singing, clapping and selling Red memorebilia, they're listening to hate speech, loving it and cheering. They're being very careful not to mention any program or alternative predicate to the present order (messy as it itself may be) nor, as has been pointed out are they handing out leaflets, flyers or statements of philosophy and moral justification of their uncivil disobedience. If they're not anarchists, they're nihilists - Nietzsche may have had some point about Buddhism. Or both.

These Reds also very careful not to mention you-know-who because it would spoil the fun. The people here know that if in making their ruckus and commotion, they were to show a you-know-who square face poster, photo, button, flag, banner, scarf or to say his name, the fun would be over. Thaksin's name in Thailand is shyt and has been shyt for months now, even among the Reds. These Reds swarming around outside this internet cafe where I am at Ratchaprarop, across from the Indra Center/Hotel, know that if the country knew they were acting for Thaksin the country would support a complete sweep of the streets to send these mindless Reds home. Thaksin is involved in this, let there be no doubt. But when he's hiding behind anarchists who enjoy and thrive on shutting down traffic, closing malls and countless shops on the streets, costing individual people their day's pay at work - day after day - Thaksin is showing yet again that it's more important to him to tear the place down than to allow Thailand to continue without Himself. These Reds running about the place are vagrants here, and I strongly suspect they're vagrants back home as well.

The previous violent ideological Reds of Pattaya and Songkran a year ago have been succeeded by Reds who are lighter of spirit and head than their predecessors. These Reds now are flakes. Abhisit is right to wait them out until Songkran when these flakes will drift back northward. It's expensive to the economy and as disruptive as chaos can be disruptive, but so far without violence. Saturday......waiting till Saturday.

I'm not totally in disagreement with your perceptions- though I think anarchists is a bit strong- anarchists aren't usually so easily led and well ordered as these people. They have set up an extended village in the city- complete with pooyai bahn. Nobody that I see there is showing the kind of self directed initiative one would expect from anarchists- (I was struck yesterday that the willingness of a crowd of that size to so pliantly submit to a handful of demagogues on stage was so Asian- so Thai- and so easily monolithic.

I wonder how many of them actually understand the nature of the perceived 'enemy'- (amaryata)- (for that matter how many of 'us' do?)- how many understand how the culture itself feeds the 'system' (by indoctrinating the prime value of knowing one's place in the pecking order)- are they just hoping that the 'leaders' have a 'plan'--- or is it even more elemental- a simple statement of dignity in the heart of a city that has not, culturally, afforded them a whole lot of dignity in the past? An expression of power for power's sake- Brown weathered faces now determining the shopping hours of the milky white hi-sos who glom up skin whitening products designed specifically to at least physically differentiate them from their country cousins- You deprive us of the PM of our choice- we deprive you of your access to fancy perfumes and cosmetics.

Edited April 7, 2010 by blaze

[geriatrickid]

can we be reasonable and agree that 15 days is an impossibility? An election cannot be held on such short notice. What Abhisit could do is say, ok, I'll dissolve the house, but in 30 days. This will give us time to prepare for an election. He could then hold the election in 90 days. As he was acting PM, he would still be in power. That makes it 4 months. The downside is that 90 days of campaigning would make everyone go batty with the incessant loudspeakers.

Just me pondering. This protest isn't going anywhere now and the government isn't going anywhere either. Although General Prawit seems to think he can send the demonstrators on their way.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm not totally in disagreement with your perceptions- though I think anarchists is a bit strong- anarchists aren't usually so easily led and well ordered as these people. They have set up an extended village in the city- complete with pooyai bahn. Nobody that I see there is showing the kind of self directed initiative one would expect from anarchists- (I was struck yesterday that the willingness of a crowd of that size to so pliantly submit to a handful of demagogues on stage was so Asian- so Thai- and so easily monolithic.

I wonder how many of them actually understand the nature of the perceived 'enemy'- (amaryata)- (for that matter how many of 'us' do?)- how many understand how the culture itself feeds the 'system' (by indoctrinating the prime value of knowing one's place in the pecking order)- are they just hoping that the 'leaders' have a 'plan'--- or is it even more elemental- a simple statement of dignity in the heart of a city that has not, culturally, afforded them a whole lot of dignity in the past? An expression of power for power's sake- Brown weathered faces now determining the shopping hours of the milky white hi-sos who glom up skin whitening products designed specifically to at least physically differentiate them from their country cousins- You deprive us of the PM of our choice- we deprive you of your favorite recreation- shopping.

I don't see much anarchic behaviour from the crowds themselves. The speeches are filled with rhetoric and are bloody monotonous, but the crowd watching all seems very much under control. I don't think they understand the reality of amaryata, or whether they feel that it still exists. What I believe they do feel is that their labour makes a lot of people in Bangkok extremely wealthy and that this at least deserves recognition and some reciprocity from any government in terms of giving back more to the countryside instead of being continuously Bangkok centric.

On a lighter note, I can just see Nivea's latest TV adverts.

"Oh dear, what a fabulous tan. Where have you been? Cannes, Maldives, at least Phuket, oh, please do tell!"

"No I hung out in front of Central World for the holidays."

[LevelHead]

[in my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Interesting. I've just come back from spending a week in a village in Surin. Based on informal conversations with many folks in the village, listening to their banter etc I would put the distribution there at about:

Pro-Red: 70%

Pro-Government: 10%

Undecided: 20%

That would be about correct for the majority of the country, a small amount of Yellow, a large amount of Red and a few with no colour.

Of course down South (sparse population) it the Yellow and Red figures would reverse but they are a minority of the Thai population.

I think Abhisit knows this, which is why he is not attacking the reds for fear of losing even more support in the next election.

Annupong also knows this IMO, which is why he is doing nothing too.

The only people who do not "accept" this are the Yellows and the English language papers and other papers under "Yellow" control.

[LevelHead]

Its nice to see the UK government dissolving parliament in a few days and then calling elections in a month (yes just 1 month).

Its easy to do and why are the Democrats/BJT not doing it ?

Of course, should it happen to be that way that there is "vote buying" it takes lots of time to get money into various bank accounts via 3rd and 4th parties so you then hand it out during election campaigns, firstly you must borrow from Japan and other countries, then you must have some big government stimulus projects, then it must be siphoned off and spread about and then moved around and then put into small amounts. The last part possibly takes 9 months. Lets hope none of that happens and THailand has clean elections.

So to prevent the chances of vote buying, a snap election in a month or two would be great for Thailand and great for Democracy !!

If Gordon can, so can you Abhisit !

It would be good to see the Red leaders talk about this today and ask Abhisit for a comment on it. Why does he need 9 months ?

[way2muchcoffee]

[in my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Interesting. I've just come back from spending a week in a village in Surin. Based on informal conversations with many folks in the village, listening to their banter etc I would put the distribution there at about:

Pro-Red: 70%

Pro-Government: 10%

Undecided: 20%

To be expected. The heartlands of TRT aren't likely to change their views any time soon.

It was also very interesting that they all know that my wife and I are pro-government. They made no attempt to push their beliefs or criticize ours. In fact, they generally preferred to steer any political conversation to safer topics to avoid any potential confrontation or hard feelings. It was something like - yes we have our beliefs and you have yours. You all are here for a holiday so let's just enjoy each other's company while you are here - friends, family, fun. I was rather impressed by this attitude.

[moresomekl]

Maybe the government of national unity is going to be tried

Yes maybe

Frankly i see no other alternative ,short of using force, to end the current standoff

and prevent future ones .

[moresomekl]

[in my village in Surin, there is 0% supporting the redshirt protest. There used to be 60% THAI RAK THAI/PHEU THAI supporters.

Interesting. I've just come back from spending a week in a village in Surin. Based on informal conversations with many folks in the village, listening to their banter etc I would put the distribution there at about:

Pro-Red: 70%

Pro-Government: 10%

Undecided: 20%

To be expected. The heartlands of TRT aren't likely to change their views any time soon.

It was also very interesting that they all know that my wife and I are pro-government. They made no attempt to push their beliefs or criticize ours. In fact, they generally preferred to steer any political conversation to safer topics to avoid any potential confrontation or hard feelings. It was something like - yes we have our beliefs and you have yours. You all are here for a holiday so let's just enjoy each other's company while you are here - friends, family, fun. I was rather impressed by this attitude.

I concurr . Most thais upcountry are far less confrontational then ppl here in TV .