What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[anotherpeter]

Do you have any knowledge about events in Thailand at all? Your ignorance is overwhelming. It would take three people full time to fill you in on all of the errors you make. Here is the sequence of events for the charter amendments.

1) The PTP demanded amendments. This was their primary condition for reconciliation.

2) The Democrats preferred no amendments, but were willing in the interests of reconciliation.

3) The Coalition Partners all wanted amendments.

4) Bipartisan committees were set up and worked for many months.

5) A conclusion was reached that was amenable to all parties, including the PTP.

6) At the very last minute the PTP pulled out.

7) Given that the PTP were the ones demanding the amendments, and suddenly reversed their decision, the Democrats decided to put the whole thing on hold. And that's where we are today. All that needs to be done is dust off the previous agreements reached by all sides and go forward with the amendment process.

Please do not change the subject and go off on a diversion.

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

If as you state he has no control of the amendments, then he was telling lies when he said "9 months to change the constitution and have elections".

Thats simple to follow is it not ?

Simple unless you might be a Yellow shirt liar perhaps ? I do not know.

You're <insult removed>. Way2much answered your question directly without changing the subject.

If you'd seen the negotiations or read anything since them, you would know the timeline that lead to the 9 months before elections. The budget, the constitution changes, discussion and referendum, rules and regulations for the elections, and then elections.

Edited April 9, 2010 by anotherpeter
Insult removed-LivinginKata

[rixalex]

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

Are you saying that when he made the offer of going to the polls in 9 months he did so on the proviso of constitutional amendments, and if amendments weren't made then the election would be called off?

[way2muchcoffee]

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

Are you saying that when he made the offer of going to the polls in 9 months he did so on the proviso of constitutional amendments, and if amendments weren't made then the election would be called off?

That was my understanding rixalex, but I don't believe the matter was discussed sufficiently to know for sure as the reds walked away from the table.

Edited April 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[JacknDanny]

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

Are you saying that when he made the offer of going to the polls in 9 months he did so on the proviso of constitutional amendments, and if amendments weren't made then the election would be called off?

I told him yesterday to change 'Level' to 'Knob' but he wont listen

[lannarebirth]

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

Are you saying that when he made the offer of going to the polls in 9 months he did so on the proviso of constitutional amendments, and if amendments weren't made then the election would be called off?

That was my understanding rixalex.

He offered to cut short his term from 21 months to nine months. He outlined his reasoning as to why he required nine months as [er "anotherpeter"'s previous post: If you'd seen the negotiations or read anything since them, you would know the timeline that lead to the 9 months before elections. The budget, the constitution changes, discussion and referendum, rules and regulations for the elections, and then elections.

[animatic]

Well in spite of the incessant red propaganda campaign here,

The ration of Law and Order votes in the TFV poll remains constant.

Still solidly : 2-1 clean out the mob, then move forward for ALL Thais,

not just this one special interest group.

[lannarebirth]

Well in spite of the incessant red propaganda campaign here,

The ration of Law and Order votes in the TFV poll remains constant.

Still solidly : 2-1 clean out the mob, then move forward for ALL Thais,

not just this one special interest group.

I voted for more patience. I hope that's what we're seeing here and not ineffectiveness. Time will tell.

[way2muchcoffee]

I voted for more patience. I hope that's what we're seeing here and not ineffectiveness. Time will tell.

My sentiments exactly. Time will tell.

[britmaveric]

If I was the govt - I literally would stop saying things you know you can't enforce and just do nothing. I would think time is on their side....

[way2muchcoffee]

If I was the govt - I literally would stop saying things you know you can't enforce and just do nothing. I would think time is on their side....

dam_n Brit. We agree again. That's twice in one day. Try for a third?

[SantiSuk]

I might want to change my vote!

I originally voted for patience. If the climb down at the TV station was ordered by Government it presumably will cling onto power and eventually lose all credibility and be forced out. If the Government ordered the Military/Police to keep the station closed, then heads should roll in the Military/Police. If the Military/Police refused to obey the orders then the Government has to make that fact known and resign.

Patience is turning into farce. I'm beginning to think that Abihsit is not so clever and balanced after all - just pathetic or powerless. Military rule here we come (again)

[animatic]

Well in spite of the incessant red propaganda campaign here,

The ration of Law and Order votes in the TFV poll remains constant.

Still solidly : 2-1 clean out the mob, then move forward for ALL Thais,

not just this one special interest group.

I voted for more patience. I hope that's what we're seeing here and not ineffectiveness. Time will tell.

I liked the concept of more patience.

But had to vote Law And Order, which si not cracking heads.

It is stoping a lowering of legal standard to the yellow version,

and a return definitively to the PRE-yellow version where it should be.

If I had thought more patience would have worked...

I might easily have picked that.

But history shows having patience with zealots,

ends up in the same disaster, just later in time. Sadly so.

I think we are seeing the Police Generals trying to remove Abhisit for standing up to them 3 months ago.

Ineffectiveness caused by corruption fighting back against an honorable man trying to clean up the country.

[rixalex]

Abhisit said he needed 9 months to change the constitution and then have elections.

How did he promise that ? Is it any wonder the Reds pulled out.

Are you saying that when he made the offer of going to the polls in 9 months he did so on the proviso of constitutional amendments, and if amendments weren't made then the election would be called off?

That was my understanding rixalex, but I don't believe the matter was discussed sufficiently to know for sure as the reds walked away from the table.

My feeling is (and granted it just a feeling) had the reds agreed with elections in 9 months and shaken hands with the PM during those televised talks, the entire nation would be preparing itself for them and no matter whether all the details were able to be completed, such as constitutional amendments, elections would have to go ahead no matter.

For LevelHead to say that the reds refused to agree to the 9 month election proposal because they doubted amendments could be completed in time is i think pure and utter nonsense.

[Sunderland]

I want Abhisit to come out from the table he is hiding under and deliver a speech which lets us all know who is actually controlling Thailand as of now. Is it him, the army or the Strawberry Alliance Party on stage at Rajaprasong?

[SanSaiExPat]

I am astounded by the number of ego-centric posts on these forums at a time that cries for mutual understanding.

The land in which we -- and for many of us, our families -- live is approaching a major turning point, the fundamental basis of which is unrelated to what is now being present presented as a "red-yellow", "prai-amataya", conflict. There is a kingdom at stake now...

I'm not Thai. I can't possibly be certain that anything I think is right or wrong is commonly perceived by Thais as being so. But we are all human beings, potential Buddhas, and so we we intrinsically know what is right and wrong, even if we choose to deny or defy that knowledge.

Some of you seem eager for a class war. How many of of you have been at the wrong end of a machine gun? How many of you have had your testicles wired to a field telephone? PM me for details.

Please, let's try to forget our self-validating didactics and try to direct our energies to encourage tolerance and understanding within the framework of a decent civil society.

Personally, I think that the government has shown exceptional constraint in its unwillingness to use repressive measures, and I credit it in that regard.

With all due respect. I don't accept yourself depreciating attitude of, “I'm not Thai, I can't know...bla, bla, bla...” or “what the heck its, TIT.” If your breathing, take up space and can see. It' pretty easy to understand what's going on in Thailand and like it or not it IS a classic struggle for freedom from Tyranny and economy hegemony over the people. The TRT had started to loosen those bonds and the people got a taste of what economic freedom could be like and they want more. As you drive through the countryside today and you go through each village and you see OTOP signs please remember the man who developed and implemented the concept. How brilliant was that? I don’t think anyone here is eager for, as you say, “class warfare” but on the other hand the people of Thailand are tired of the elite class using xenophobic policies, rural vs. urban differences and the precepts of Buddha to keep them tame and down or as my wife, pathetically says when I ask her about the current situation, she says, “Not my business honey.” While that is truer of me, it really isn’t my business, other than being an interested citizen of the world. It is quite tragic that many hard working, intelligent Thai’s believe politics is, “not their business” and is reserved for the Chinese-Thai Bangkok Elites. And it’s also terrible that their belief in Lord Buddha leads them to think, as my wife says, “Those people will get what’s coming to them in another life.” Ah yes what a wonderful edict to keep people in line, they will get their piece of the pie in the next life. You say we should all work towards, “tolerance and understanding within the framework of a decent civil society.” Tolerance and understanding of a government who removes the political party and leader you voted for by military force? And please sir, describe your idea of a “decent civil society”? It is this one that is decent? Is that what you are saying? In your post you intimate that you’ve had horrific personal experiences with electric shock. For that you have my sympathy and condolences but it has nothing to do with the current unrest.

[hardy1943]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

One man, One vote.

Trouble is I suspect that a lot of these 'political debators' , have multi accounts, multi pseudonyms, and will probably have been reincarnated 6 or 7 times before Sunday

The vote will still show at least 3;1 against the reds, unlike what the red supporters say/believe.

Personally I voted B.

LOL

Rich Elite Yellow shirts who can use the Internet on the latest Mac PC with a 10MB broadband connection in their AC "study room" can each vote once.

Red shirts out on the streets or working in the factory or on the farm with no internet connection and no PC can vote, but of course, will not be able to.

LOL

It's a vote of Thai Visa users. Not an national poll.

We have no business getting involved.Like I have no business telling my wife how to vote.Frankly I am tired of the hype THAI VISA makes of this.

[hammered]

I want Abhisit to come out from the table he is hiding under and deliver a speech which lets us all know who is actually controlling Thailand as of now. Is it him, the army or the Strawberry Alliance Party on stage at Rajaprasong?

Pretty much agree. Be totally honest and if necesary just resign on the spot. The time for deals and games that have been badly mishandled is over. People are just going to get hurt by more of that.

[Rhodiebkk]

Doing nothig is no longer an option if he is to retain any credibility.

Otherwise, move to Dubai!

[khaowong1]

> No politic discussions in this Poll thread please.

That's pretty tough given the topic of the poll?

But erm, okay: Pretty hot and humid these days isn't it?

these were my thoughts exactly...

[LaoPo]

Ineffectiveness caused by corruption fighting back against an honorable man trying to clean up the country.

Corruption in Thailand is as old as it's history and Abhisit might be an honorable and educated distinguished man, he's nothing without the elite and military, still backing him. Most of them corrupt as well and everybody knows it.

He's a puppet on a string and that.....that...is very unfortunate for the future of Thailand.

Free new elections is the only way on the path to full democracy.

Now Thailand is still ruled from behind the velvet curtains and nothing is done for the poor majority.

If the elite & military as well as the reds and yellows will accept the outcome of eventual new and free elections is a whole other scenario and remains to be seen....

This country is a mess and as long as the establishment will not accept and don't really care that there are still 40-50 million poor people out there, it will remain a mess.

Thailand will only improve with fair and proper education for all, including the poor.

LaoPo

Edited April 9, 2010 by LaoPo

[clinique]

this is becoming a farce !!!

And it isnt our business to interfere,,but,

Who really doesnt know who is supporting Abhisit ??

Is the R S arguement REALLY that they want T back ?

OR

That they want the government to look after ALL Thai people, not just Bkk elite.?

If he had any b*lls A V would dissolve the govt and call new elections - if he is so sure he is right show some backbone,,

He isnt ?

Thats why he wont ?

[Publicus]

Abhisit's reign has been tarnished by his coming to power without election, and has been defined by political tension, few political achievements and a sluggish economy. Dissolving the parliament as soon as it is feasible and letting the people vote is the way forward for the Thai nation.

Abhisit actually came to power with an election of MPs. The same way that Samak and Somchai came to power.

The last 5 years has been defined by political tension. There have been few political acheivements in the last 5 years either.

Dissolving parliament will not move the Thai nation forward. It will keep it exactly where it is. Political tension and few political acheivements.

The way forward is for a new constitution written for ALL Thais (not just to get Thaksin off) and voted for and accepted by all Thais.

Then have elections without corruption. The reds seem to want to take those clauses out of the constitution.

There was a dirty election which was biased against the PPP, but they still won.

Failing to win the dirty way the Elite then convicted the PPP and found the Democrats not guilty of the same things is is said.

They then manipulated the present coalition into power it is alleged through bribes of money and powerful positions in government where these people could make money for them and their friends through influence of government contracts.

The people got trampled all over and so did Democracy.

Dissolve the House. Have new elections.

Keep the rabid Yellow dogs in their kennels and accept the votes of the people under free and fair elections, not dirty one sided "out to get the PPP" ones.

Abhisit and Suthep are no longer in control, dissolve the House.

If you want to see how corrupt the legal system is just look at the coup, its a treason offense and yet they gave themselves "immunity" from committing those crimes and the same people who gave themselves immunity then accuse Thaksin of wanting immunity.

LOL

An election at any time during 2010 would be political suicide for the country. Either side could win but one side, the Reds-Thaksin are out of govenment so they are frantic and desperate to get a snap election going, then to do everything and anything they can do to win regardless of laws. Meanwhile the government has become well positioned to come out ahead in an election, to include a snap election, but would do best in a clean and honest election......which any election forced by Thaksin and his Reds never would be.

It's basic politics 101 and political campaigns 101 - a fugitive criminal traitor hiding out abroad wants - needs desperately - to get a snap election because he and his forces are out of power. So the fugitive Red side say that because they want an election, they are for democracy - a syllogism and a fallacy of reasoning and logic, and given the past several years a claim that is prima facie bogus (on its face). The incumbent coalition government probably would like to call a snap election but is reluctant in the extreme to do so because everyone in the coalition knows the Thaksin forces, which are out of power, will do anything to try to get a snap election called, then will do anything and everything - no holds barred to include the laws - to try to win the snap election.

Because it would be impossible to have a snap election that could even have a semblance of fairness and honesty to it, neither side would accept the outcome and the country would be more divided and hostile towards the other side than anything we've seen to date. The mob that shouts "I want an election now so therefore I'm for democracy" is the crowd that will destroy the processes of democratic elections to achieve their selfish and nefarious purposes, to wit: change the constitution so that the tyrant destroyer of democracy in Thailand, Thaksin, can return to assume all the power and authority of the government......this dictatorship would of course be necessary because he Thaksin knows the people, cares for the poor and can rid the society of those awful elements who would oppose him in all of his goodness.

Sounds familiar doesn't it? It's been played out in 3rd world countries for hundreds of years.

Anytime we hear voices bellowing that they want a snap election so therefore they are for democracy, we know that Thaksin wants a snap election so he can destroy democratic proceses and democracy itself. Bellyaching about how poor people are in the countryside doesn't change the facts that Thaksin desperately needs a snap election so he can destroy democratic processes and democracy itself in his tunnel vision mad pursuit of power and revenge.

[LaoPo]

What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

That Poll-question is a weird one now, since tonight. His days are counted....

Who would have thought so on such a short notice, not even 48 hours after this Poll-topic was started ?

I bet nobody on the TV Forum, apart from the ones who really rule Thailand...and I said it many times before:

The elite and military; the real establishment, the real powers.

And who could have expressed it better than good old Prem......

""The army is like a racehorse and governments are merely jockeys who come and go," Privy Councilor, former Army Chief and Prime Minister Prem Tinsulanonda said during a speech to cadets in July 2006. "The [military's]owners are the nation and the King."

2 months later Thaksin was ousted by the military....

Source, Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1978994,00.html

Another sad day for Thailand's poor; it's not about them, it never has been.... it's about Power & Money and Money & Power.....

LaoPo

Edited April 9, 2010 by LaoPo

[sjaak327]

I voted new elections, IMHO the way the previous government ended (newin changing sides) was more then enough reason to call for new elections.

[rixalex]

An election at any time during 2010 would be political suicide for the country. Either side could win but one side, the Reds-Thaksin are out of govenment so they are frantic and desperate to get a snap election going, then to do everything and anything they can do to win regardless of laws. Meanwhile the government has become well positioned to come out ahead in an election, to include a snap election, but would do best in a clean and honest election......which any election forced by Thaksin and his Reds never would be.

It's basic politics 101 and political campaigns 101 - a fugitive criminal traitor hiding out abroad wants - needs desperately - to get a snap election because he and his forces are out of power. So the fugitive Red side say that because they want an election, they are for democracy - a syllogism and a fallacy of reasoning and logic, and given the past several years a claim that is prima facie bogus (on its face). The incumbent coalition government probably would like to call a snap election but is reluctant in the extreme to do so because everyone in the coalition knows the Thaksin forces, which are out of power, will do anything to try to get a snap election called, then will do anything and everything - no holds barred to include the laws - to try to win the snap election.

Because it would be impossible to have a snap election that could even have a semblance of fairness and honesty to it, neither side would accept the outcome and the country would be more divided and hostile towards the other side than anything we've seen to date. The mob that shouts "I want an election now so therefore I'm for democracy" is the crowd that will destroy the processes of democratic elections to achieve their selfish and nefarious purposes, to wit: change the constitution so that the tyrant destroyer of democracy in Thailand, Thaksin, can return to assume all the power and authority of the government......this dictatorship would of course be necessary because he Thaksin knows the people, cares for the poor and can rid the society of those awful elements who would oppose him in all of his goodness.

Sounds familiar doesn't it? It's been played out in 3rd world countries for hundreds of years.

Anytime we hear voices bellowing that they want a snap election so therefore they are for democracy, we know that Thaksin wants a snap election so he can destroy democratic proceses and democracy itself. Bellyaching about how poor people are in the countryside doesn't change the facts that Thaksin desperately needs a snap election so he can destroy democratic processes and democracy itself in his tunnel vision mad pursuit of power and revenge.

Well summed up Pub.

All these people who claim to be on the side of democracy because they are the ones calling for immediate elections, will be singing an entirely different tune should Thaksin and his cronies get back in power via unfair means and should certain groups then be calling for new elections.

The current government is legitimate and legal, as much as some may disagree with how they came to power. If you claim to be in favour of democracy, you should be fighting for the current government to serve out its term, not for them to be forcefully ousted by a minority group that is funded by a convicted criminal.

At the end of the day, we aren't talking about the beginning of a four year term. We are past halfway now and elections will have to come quite soon anyway. For the sake of a few months, why can't people be patient? I think we know the answer to that question - or at least the answer why one certain individual can't be patient - just a shame the whole country has to get dragged along with him, as he seems to be successfully achieving right now.

Edited April 10, 2010 by rixalex

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abhisit's reign has been tarnished by his coming to power without election, and has been defined by political tension, few political achievements and a sluggish economy. Dissolving the parliament as soon as it is feasible and letting the people vote is the way forward for the Thai nation.

Abhisit actually came to power with an election of MPs. The same way that Samak and Somchai came to power.

The last 5 years has been defined by political tension. There have been few political acheivements in the last 5 years either.

Dissolving parliament will not move the Thai nation forward. It will keep it exactly where it is. Political tension and few political acheivements.

The way forward is for a new constitution written for ALL Thais (not just to get Thaksin off) and voted for and accepted by all Thais.

Then have elections without corruption. The reds seem to want to take those clauses out of the constitution.

There was a dirty election which was biased against the PPP, but they still won.

Failing to win the dirty way the Elite then convicted the PPP and found the Democrats not guilty of the same things is is said.

They then manipulated the present coalition into power it is alleged through bribes of money and powerful positions in government where these people could make money for them and their friends through influence of government contracts.

The people got trampled all over and so did Democracy.

Dissolve the House. Have new elections.

Keep the rabid Yellow dogs in their kennels and accept the votes of the people under free and fair elections, not dirty one sided "out to get the PPP" ones.

Abhisit and Suthep are no longer in control, dissolve the House.

If you want to see how corrupt the legal system is just look at the coup, its a treason offense and yet they gave themselves "immunity" from committing those crimes and the same people who gave themselves immunity then accuse Thaksin of wanting immunity.

LOL

An election at any time during 2010 would be political suicide for the country. Either side could win but one side, the Reds-Thaksin are out of govenment so they are frantic and desperate to get a snap election going, then to do everything and anything they can do to win regardless of laws. Meanwhile the government has become well positioned to come out ahead in an election, to include a snap election, but would do best in a clean and honest election......which any election forced by Thaksin and his Reds never would be.

It's basic politics 101 and political campaigns 101 - a fugitive criminal traitor hiding out abroad wants - needs desperately - to get a snap election because he and his forces are out of power. So the fugitive Red side say that because they want an election, they are for democracy - a syllogism and a fallacy of reasoning and logic, and given the past several years a claim that is prima facie bogus (on its face). The incumbent coalition government probably would like to call a snap election but is reluctant in the extreme to do so because everyone in the coalition knows the Thaksin forces, which are out of power, will do anything to try to get a snap election called, then will do anything and everything - no holds barred to include the laws - to try to win the snap election.

Because it would be impossible to have a snap election that could even have a semblance of fairness and honesty to it, neither side would accept the outcome and the country would be more divided and hostile towards the other side than anything we've seen to date. The mob that shouts "I want an election now so therefore I'm for democracy" is the crowd that will destroy the processes of democratic elections to achieve their selfish and nefarious purposes, to wit: change the constitution so that the tyrant destroyer of democracy in Thailand, Thaksin, can return to assume all the power and authority of the government......this dictatorship would of course be necessary because he Thaksin knows the people, cares for the poor and can rid the society of those awful elements who would oppose him in all of his goodness.

Sounds familiar doesn't it? It's been played out in 3rd world countries for hundreds of years.

Anytime we hear voices bellowing that they want a snap election so therefore they are for democracy, we know that Thaksin wants a snap election so he can destroy democratic proceses and democracy itself. Bellyaching about how poor people are in the countryside doesn't change the facts that Thaksin desperately needs a snap election so he can destroy democratic processes and democracy itself in his tunnel vision mad pursuit of power and revenge.

The Democrat Party took over the Government after:

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

• Refusing to take part in the elections of 2006 because they knew they would lose

• A military coup in September 2006

• A military Constitution was introduced in 2007 which decreased the democratic space

• They lost the December 2007 election

• They supported the PAD violent demonstrations which seized Government House and closed down the international airports

• The Courts were used twice to dissolve Red Shirt parties which won majorities

• Corrupt politicians were bullied and bribed by the army to change sides and support the Democrat Party

you think this is democracy?

[rixalex]

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

Nothing whatsoever wrong with using state funds for the poor. It's about how you do it. You can either do it for long-term sustainable benefit, or you can do it for short-term vote gains that may ultimately worsen the problem.

[ChiangMaiFun]

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

Nothing whatsoever wrong with using state funds for the poor. It's about how you do it. You can either do it for long-term sustainable benefit, or you can do it for short-term vote gains that may ultimately worsen the problem.

but you get the point? how many other countries do you know who disband WHOLE political parties because individuals are corrupt? can you imagine banning the Democrats in the USA because of Clintons misdeamenour? it's a political tool... surely you see that? Democracy (as we know it) does not exist here - it's the Wild West (or East)

[anotherpeter]

The Democrat Party took over the Government after:

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

• Refusing to take part in the elections of 2006 because they knew they would lose

• A military coup in September 2006

• A military Constitution was introduced in 2007 which decreased the democratic space

• They lost the December 2007 election

• They supported the PAD violent demonstrations which seized Government House and closed down the international airports

• The Courts were used twice to dissolve Red Shirt parties which won majorities

• Corrupt politicians were bullied and bribed by the army to change sides and support the Democrat Party

you think this is democracy?

1) How many of Thaksin's programs helped the poor in the long run or were properly funded, and how many were short term vote grabbers?

2) Why take part in something that has been corrupted so you don't have a chance?

3) What in the 2007 constitution decreased the democratic space? I thought most of the changes were to reduce the corruption space. That's what the Thaksin parties object to so much.

4) Everyone "lost" the 2007 election. Coalitions have been used to form 3 governments - Samak's, Somchai's and Abhisits.

5) Not all the Democrats supported the PAD.

6) Bullied and bribed? What about bribes to support the PPP after they campaigned that they wouldn't?

Democracy may still have a long way to go in Thailand, but submitting to mob protests is not a way forward, and returning to Thaksin is *definitely* not the way forward.

(remember that the PAD did not force the PPP to step down. The courts disbanded them, and they (ex-PPP/PTP) could have still formed a coalition after the disbanding.)

[rixalex]

• Refusing to take part in the elections of 2006 because they knew they would lose

I think you are right to say they would have lost but there are two things you need to consider. One is that at that stage Thaksin's grip on power was very tight - not only because of popularity which i agree he enjoyed, but because his tentacles had spread so far and wide that he had control over just about every organisation and body that might otherwise have stood up to some of the bad things that were going on. The Dems wouldn't have therefore been fighting an election on an uneven playing field.

The other point is that the entire reason for the elections was because of pressure that Thaksin was under following the underhand way he sold his business. He was using the ballot as a means of endorsing the deal he had done and silencing his critics. This is not what the ballot box is for. It's not the public's job to decide someone's guilt or innocence on complicated legal matters, the details to which they are not privy to.

Thaksin should have temporarily stepped down to allow the deal to be investigated by an independent body. Or even better still he could have simply accepted that it was a little unfair to have sold the business without paying tax, and made a sizeable contribution to a charity. This would have been such a smart move on his part and i'm certain he would still be in power to this day had he done so.