What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[Jingthing]

Remember he is not elected by an democratic election. He took the power by the militarys help (and I supose some more "unsuspest elemments" help too).

I admire you, wanthai, for having the guts to show your complete ignorance of the situaiton in Thailand in such a bold and public way

More like parroting the Truth Today propaganda. A lot of birds out today.

[britmaveric]

I think it would be more fair to say Abhisit took advantage of the situation that the military provided him through eliminating his obstacles.

[webfact]

Poll: Nearly half want Red Shirts to end protest now

BANGKOK (TNA) -- Nearly half of those polled in an opinion poll released Thursday-- 49.2 per cent-- wanted Thailand's anti-government Red Shirts to end their nearly one-month-long demonstration immediately and return home.

The poll conducted among 1,156 residents in Bangkok and nearby provinces between April 4 and 5 by Dhurakij Pundit University in reference to the red-shirted demonstrations found that 22.8 per cent of respondents wanted the movement to temporarily suspend the rally and resume political activities later after the traditional Thai New Year Songkran festival.

Nearly one in five-- 17.7 per cent-- said the ‘Red Shirt’ United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) should prolong its protest.

Regarding the real objectives of the UDD-led mass rally, over one-third-- 39 per cent-- thought the Red Shirts intended to help fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

One-third-- 32.6 per cent --believed that that the demonstrators were demanding democracy, about one in six, or 14.4 per cent, commented that the red-shirted supporters did not know clearly what they wanted to call for.

Nearly sixty-one per cent-- 60.6 per cent-- did not think that dissolving Parliament would help solve the current social conflicts, while 71.1 per cent believed that the demonstration failed to resolve the ongoing problems.

In addition, almost two-thirds or 64.2 per cent believed that the UDD demonstration would finally fail to achieve its aim against 35.8 per cent of respondents who believed otherwise.

Over forty per cent-- 41.8 per cent-- of respondents were 'bored' with the red-clad protest -- with about one-third describing themselves as sick and tired of it, one in four-- 24.6 per cent-- wanted the Reds to stop their anti-government protest.

About one in six-- 16.9 per cent-- were urging the Reds to be patient and continue their political fight.

Regarding Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva’s performance in handling with the intensified protest, only 18.5 per cent rated the premier’s performance as excellent, while nearly half or 47.9 per cent evaluated his performance as fairly well.

One-third -- 33.5 per cent -- were dissatisfied with the premier’s performance, saying he was almost unable to solve the problem.

The anti-government UDD protesters have staged rally in Bangkok since March 13, demanding that Mr Abhisit dissolve Parliament and call for a fresh general election.

Responding to the protest, the Internal Security Act (ISA) has been imposed to maintain law and order in Bangkok and provinces nearby since March 12.

However, protesters remain at the main rally site, Phan Fa bridge and lay siege at the Bangkok’s prime commercial intersection at Ratchaprasong where they have staged a protest against the government since Saturday paralysing traffic and cost tens of millions of dollars daily in economic losses.

The premier on Wednesday declared state of emergency to restore peace after thousands of protesters stormed parliament on Wednesday which has sent cabinet members and lawmakers fleeing the building. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-o4-08

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[SantiSuk]

Sorry Jingthing, not bothered at. Unlike you I am aware that while such a poll is fun to talk about but has not statistical significance. In words you might understand "It's meaningless"

Polls can reveal some interesting information but the without proper population selection about the only thing we can understand from this is particular poll is that a larger number of people on TV took the initiative to say they want harsher actions by the government that wanted parliment dissolution. Beyond that is useless to speculate. I know that will be particularly haard for you to do since you seem to have an aversion to facts.

How silly of me!!!

I should have thought that the die hard reds on here would turn round and say the poll was meaningless!!

Its meaningless inasmuch as it has no effect on the end result.

However it goes to show that at at least 3/4 of TV users are anti-red. Which is about right in my circle of friends both Thai and Western.

So all the nonsense spouted yesterday about how wrong it was to say that the majority of farang are anti red, has just been shot down in flames.

From previous polls done on here, TV has a broad range of users, from high end millionaires (real or dreamers ) to pikers. So I would suggest that the poll is reasonably accurate.

But just like the reds on the street, if the poll or election is not to their taste, then it has to be changed or manipulated until the result is more to their liking.

By implication you say that the poll can determine the red/yellow balance of TVers. Out of interest, how are you interpreting the colour bias of those who voted for patience?

[SantiSuk]

The gap between the poor and the rich is bigger than in China, bigger than in India. Abhsit should be ashamed of that.

Where does that stat come from? I can't comment on China but, living in so-called poor rural Issaan as I do and having visited India many times I think the India analogy is complete sphericals.

Edited April 8, 2010 by SantiSuk

[landofthefree]

Sorry Jingthing, not bothered at. Unlike you I am aware that while such a poll is fun to talk about but has not statistical significance. In words you might understand "It's meaningless"

Polls can reveal some interesting information but the without proper population selection about the only thing we can understand from this is particular poll is that a larger number of people on TV took the initiative to say they want harsher actions by the government that wanted parliment dissolution. Beyond that is useless to speculate. I know that will be particularly haard for you to do since you seem to have an aversion to facts.

How silly of me!!!

I should have thought that the die hard reds on here would turn round and say the poll was meaningless!!

Its meaningless inasmuch as it has no effect on the end result.

However it goes to show that at at least 3/4 of TV users are anti-red. Which is about right in my circle of friends both Thai and Western.

So all the nonsense spouted yesterday about how wrong it was to say that the majority of farang are anti red, has just been shot down in flames.

From previous polls done on here, TV has a broad range of users, from high end millionaires (real or dreamers ) to pikers. So I would suggest that the poll is reasonably accurate.

But just like the reds on the street, if the poll or election is not to their taste, then it has to be changed or manipulated until the result is more to their liking.

By implication you say that the poll can determine the red/yellow balance of TVers. Out of interest, how are you interpreting the colour bias of those who voted for patience?

I would put the ones that want patience as red supporters ie happy with the current stand off and sympathetic to the reds despite the emergency decree

[indyuk]

Start putting redshirts in jail.

Don't be so politically naive. The Red Shirts and their forbears are seeking a

democracy promised to the Thai people in the 1930's. They won that democracy

through Thaksin Shinwata, only to see it removed in another coup.

The Red Shirts are determined to secure the rights of the people.

The fact that this political movement toward self determination

inconveniences a few foreigners who seem think that Thailand

owes them something is irrelevant. :annoyed

:

[somo]

Poll is slanted by the questions and options.

If you asked - Do the reds have good reason to demand change? with a simple yes or no option you may get a different result.

As of now it is just over 50% in favour of kicking them out - hardly conclusive considering most farangs here are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice.

[Jingthing]

Poll is slanted by the questions and options.

If you asked - Do the reds have good reason to demand change? with a simple yes or no option you may get a different result.

As of now it is just over 50% in favour of kicking them out - hardly conclusive considering most farangs here are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice.

I can help you open your own poll your way if you don't know how. Just PM me. I detest complainers who whine about polls when they could bloody well start one themselves (but be warned, people will RIP yours apart).

[way2muchcoffee]

I would put the ones that want patience as red supporters ie happy with the current stand off and sympathetic to the reds despite the emergency decree

That would be a mistake in many cases. I support the redshirt footsoldiers. My wife and family are from the NE. I support them financially as necessary to help them make ends meet. That wouldn't be necessary if they were given a fairer shake in life. But, sadly, they are abused by this society each and every day. I understand their plight and I am surrounded by their angst. They have every reason and every right to be angry,

Nevertheless, I do not support the redshirt leaders and I cannot therefore support these demonstrations.

I voted patience.

Edited April 8, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[monkfish]

Wonder which side the Admin are on?

[animatic]

Interestingly we can see the full court press of lies and blatant propaganda deceptions foisted in our faces,

and yet, the main mass of TVF voters aren't buying it, regardless of how hard they are pushed.

Goes to show, you can't try selling smoke and mirrors to everybody, and succeed.

Edited April 8, 2010 by animatic

[SantiSuk]

I would put the ones that want patience as red supporters ie happy with the current stand off and sympathetic to the reds despite the emergency decree

OK - delete one from your score - I'm no red (hate the idea of Thaksin and believe Thailand is best served by continuing with the present constitution for the time being and have good regard for Abhisit). But I urge patience.

Edited April 8, 2010 by SantiSuk

[geriatrickid]

Sometimes I read the comments and am totally shocked. What planet do these people live on? An experienced military operator? <deleted> is that. Another wannabe expert? Look at the 1st paragraph. What do drive by shootings and poor driving have to do with the current situation? Whether or not there is an intervention in Bangkok, it will have ZERO impact on drive by shootings or poor driving skills. Does this person really think that a drunk on a vendetta or a drug dealer or an aggrieved business partner is going to be detered by the intervention in Bangkok? Will the 18 year old slow down on her Hello Kitty cycle if some red shirt is arrested? I think not.

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

What is a military operator and tactician? Do you mean a mercenary or as we politely term them today, a contractor? Your views are precisely why Blackwater ended up in deep trouble. If you ever attended Officers Training School or the War College in your respective nation you would have taken the courses in military law and ethics. Surgically taking out ring leaders with long range rifle fire as you term it (normal people just say marksman or sniper) is governed by specific rules and regulations. We do not kill civilian political activists unless there is a near and imminent threat, i.e. it is to save a life. Killing people without any judicial hearing or judgement is referred to as an extra judicial killing. (Ever notice that the anti redshirts like to complain about Thaksin's alleged extrajudicial killings and quashing of civil rights, and yet they froth at the mouth with innovative strategies that are much worse?) If you were in the military and did this you would be charged with murder and subject to a court martial. If it was state sanctioned it could be considered a war crime. The rest of your sermon reads like a sanitized version of how the Serbians planned the massacre of Bosnian civilians. Moving them with compassion? Right. The Thai military does not have the greatest reputation for moving people peacefully. Remember the Rohingya (sic) refugees?, How about the Burmese refugees or the Hmong?

What version of Janes did you read to come up with There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. We do not use tanks to quell urban disturbances in Bangkok. This is not China with its highways and wide squares. The chief reason is the size of the typical road. There are too many obstacles. You can't drive a tank down most Bangkok roads without hitting something. The APCs are not designed for this. The air component isn't there. There are no sound blasting trucks. There are no microwave trucks. All that there are a bunch of soldiers with guns. yes there are elite units equipped with riot gear. However, that is not their job. Soldiers are not there to fight riots. They are there to respond to catastrophic events and war. Once the eilte unit lines are breached, the next line are the thousands of poor conscripts who may think twice about shooting their countrymen and women. This is how revolutions occur.

Are you the Tactician that told Bush to declare victory in the Iraq War in May 2003?

[juehoe]

At the long term, only new and fair election could perhaps solve the problem.

Even I not agree with the protests and other action by Red Shirt leaders and Taksin - we have to remember that the current government came to power by a Yellow Shirt kind of putsch and not through a democratic process.

I assume that Abhisit could be the right man for Thailand. But he is under pressure of some very bad people and ideas which are "collected" in the Yellow/Pink Shirt group.

Thailand needs people who can solve this lands problems and care of all its population and not only for a certain group or class. Both are wrong; the Reds and the Yellos/Pinks, too...!

[Jerrytheyoung]

Wonder which side the Admin are on?

From my experience, the Thai Administration is a replica of the Country except the Bosses close to Governement.

Every party has his own relays inside the Administration....

[somo]

Poll is slanted by the questions and options.

If you asked - Do the reds have good reason to demand change? with a simple yes or no option you may get a different result.

As of now it is just over 50% in favour of kicking them out - hardly conclusive considering most farangs here are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice.

I can help you open your own poll your way if you don't know how. Just PM me. I detest complainers who whine about polls when they could bloody well start one themselves (but be warned, people will RIP yours apart).

I see you recognise yourself as one of those I was referring to.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sometimes I read the comments and am totally shocked. What planet do these people live on? An experienced military operator? <deleted> is that. Another wannabe expert? Look at the 1st paragraph. What do drive by shootings and poor driving have to do with the current situation? Whether or not there is an intervention in Bangkok, it will have ZERO impact on drive by shootings or poor driving skills. Does this person really think that a drunk on a vendetta or a drug dealer or an aggrieved business partner is going to be detered by the intervention in Bangkok? Will the 18 year old slow down on her Hello Kitty cycle if some red shirt is arrested? I think not.

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

What is a military operator and tactician? Do you mean a mercenary or as we politely term them today, a contractor? Your views are precisely why Blackwater ended up in deep trouble. If you ever attended Officers Training School or the War College in your respective nation you would have taken the courses in military law and ethics. Surgically taking out ring leaders with long range rifle fire as you term it (normal people just say marksman or sniper) is governed by specific rules and regulations. We do not kill civilian political activists unless there is a near and imminent threat, i.e. it is to save a life. Killing people without any judicial hearing or judgement is referred to as an extra judicial killing. (Ever notice that the anti redshirts like to complain about Thaksin's alleged extrajudicial killings and quashing of civil rights, and yet they froth at the mouth with innovative strategies that are much worse?) If you were in the military and did this you would be charged with murder and subject to a court martial. If it was state sanctioned it could be considered a war crime. The rest of your sermon reads like a sanitized version of how the Serbians planned the massacre of Bosnian civilians. Moving them with compassion? Right. The Thai military does not have the greatest reputation for moving people peacefully. Remember the Rohingya (sic) refugees?, How about the Burmese refugees or the Hmong?

What version of Janes did you read to come up with There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. We do not use tanks to quell urban disturbances in Bangkok. This is not China with its highways and wide squares. The chief reason is the size of the typical road. There are too many obstacles. You can't drive a tank down most Bangkok roads without hitting something. The APCs are not designed for this. The air component isn't there. There are no sound blasting trucks. There are no microwave trucks. All that there are a bunch of soldiers with guns. yes there are elite units equipped with riot gear. However, that is not their job. Soldiers are not there to fight riots. They are there to respond to catastrophic events and war. Once the eilte unit lines are breached, the next line are the thousands of poor conscripts who may think twice about shooting their countrymen and women. This is how revolutions occur.

Are you the Tactician that told Bush to declare victory in the Iraq War in May 2003?

Excellent Geriatrikid

I will add that Militaries know how to handle a war..... but ending a war is the issue of Diplomats and it can be quite tricky.

You can win the battles and loose the war....Think about that Fore Man

[Jerrytheyoung]

Deleted ...Double posting by error....Sorry

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[hextac]

I was going to vote 1 but 2 gave me more money.

[hoilai]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

One man, One vote.

Trouble is I suspect that a lot of these 'political debators' , have multi accounts, multi pseudonyms, and will probably have been reincarnated 6 or 7 times before Sunday

The vote will still show at least 3;1 against the reds, unlike what the red supporters say/believe.

Personally I voted B.

LOL

Rich Elite Yellow shirts who can use the Internet on the latest Mac PC with a 10MB broadband connection in their AC "study room" can each vote once.

Red shirts out on the streets or working in the factory or on the farm with no internet connection and no PC can vote, but of course, will not be able to.

LOL

As if we don't see dozens of Thais in internet cafes daily

in ever town and village around the whole country...

yes, but they are mostly kids who do not know who ptv is and who are gaming/and/or gambling mostly and don't give a dam_n to all these protests.

[Jingthing]

Poll is slanted by the questions and options.

If you asked - Do the reds have good reason to demand change? with a simple yes or no option you may get a different result.

As of now it is just over 50% in favour of kicking them out - hardly conclusive considering most farangs here are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice.

I can help you open your own poll your way if you don't know how. Just PM me. I detest complainers who whine about polls when they could bloody well start one themselves (but be warned, people will RIP yours apart).

I see you recognise yourself as one of those I was referring to.

I see. You aren't really interested in doing anything except to hurl insults. Next ...

[hoilai]

Sometimes I read the comments and am totally shocked. What planet do these people live on? An experienced military operator? <deleted> is that. Another wannabe expert? Look at the 1st paragraph. What do drive by shootings and poor driving have to do with the current situation? Whether or not there is an intervention in Bangkok, it will have ZERO impact on drive by shootings or poor driving skills. Does this person really think that a drunk on a vendetta or a drug dealer or an aggrieved business partner is going to be detered by the intervention in Bangkok? Will the 18 year old slow down on her Hello Kitty cycle if some red shirt is arrested? I think not.

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

What is a military operator and tactician? Do you mean a mercenary or as we politely term them today, a contractor? Your views are precisely why Blackwater ended up in deep trouble. If you ever attended Officers Training School or the War College in your respective nation you would have taken the courses in military law and ethics. Surgically taking out ring leaders with long range rifle fire as you term it (normal people just say marksman or sniper) is governed by specific rules and regulations. We do not kill civilian political activists unless there is a near and imminent threat, i.e. it is to save a life. Killing people without any judicial hearing or judgement is referred to as an extra judicial killing. (Ever notice that the anti redshirts like to complain about Thaksin's alleged extrajudicial killings and quashing of civil rights, and yet they froth at the mouth with innovative strategies that are much worse?) If you were in the military and did this you would be charged with murder and subject to a court martial. If it was state sanctioned it could be considered a war crime. The rest of your sermon reads like a sanitized version of how the Serbians planned the massacre of Bosnian civilians. Moving them with compassion? Right. The Thai military does not have the greatest reputation for moving people peacefully. Remember the Rohingya (sic) refugees?, How about the Burmese refugees or the Hmong?

What version of Janes did you read to come up with There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. We do not use tanks to quell urban disturbances in Bangkok. This is not China with its highways and wide squares. The chief reason is the size of the typical road. There are too many obstacles. You can't drive a tank down most Bangkok roads without hitting something. The APCs are not designed for this. The air component isn't there. There are no sound blasting trucks. There are no microwave trucks. All that there are a bunch of soldiers with guns. yes there are elite units equipped with riot gear. However, that is not their job. Soldiers are not there to fight riots. They are there to respond to catastrophic events and war. Once the eilte unit lines are breached, the next line are the thousands of poor conscripts who may think twice about shooting their countrymen and women. This is how revolutions occur.

Are you the Tactician that told Bush to declare victory in the Iraq War in May 2003?

...remembr the filipinos sticking theirroses into the barrels of the solidiers' M-16s during the last days of president ferdinand marcos?

well said, the thousands of serfs and poor conscripts will think twice before opening fire on their own countrymen from upnorth...

chances are if that happen, the bloodshed will be unimaginable this time....

again, well said, the army is for war purposes.....

crossing the line can mean only........

Edited April 8, 2010 by hoilai

[Jingthing]

Sometimes I read the comments and am totally shocked. What planet do these people live on? An experienced military operator? <deleted> is that. Another wannabe expert? Look at the 1st paragraph. What do drive by shootings and poor driving have to do with the current situation? Whether or not there is an intervention in Bangkok, it will have ZERO impact on drive by shootings or poor driving skills. Does this person really think that a drunk on a vendetta or a drug dealer or an aggrieved business partner is going to be detered by the intervention in Bangkok? Will the 18 year old slow down on her Hello Kitty cycle if some red shirt is arrested? I think not.

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

What is a military operator and tactician? Do you mean a mercenary or as we politely term them today, a contractor? Your views are precisely why Blackwater ended up in deep trouble. If you ever attended Officers Training School or the War College in your respective nation you would have taken the courses in military law and ethics. Surgically taking out ring leaders with long range rifle fire as you term it (normal people just say marksman or sniper) is governed by specific rules and regulations. We do not kill civilian political activists unless there is a near and imminent threat, i.e. it is to save a life. Killing people without any judicial hearing or judgement is referred to as an extra judicial killing. (Ever notice that the anti redshirts like to complain about Thaksin's alleged extrajudicial killings and quashing of civil rights, and yet they froth at the mouth with innovative strategies that are much worse?) If you were in the military and did this you would be charged with murder and subject to a court martial. If it was state sanctioned it could be considered a war crime. The rest of your sermon reads like a sanitized version of how the Serbians planned the massacre of Bosnian civilians. Moving them with compassion? Right. The Thai military does not have the greatest reputation for moving people peacefully. Remember the Rohingya (sic) refugees?, How about the Burmese refugees or the Hmong?

What version of Janes did you read to come up with There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. We do not use tanks to quell urban disturbances in Bangkok. This is not China with its highways and wide squares. The chief reason is the size of the typical road. There are too many obstacles. You can't drive a tank down most Bangkok roads without hitting something. The APCs are not designed for this. The air component isn't there. There are no sound blasting trucks. There are no microwave trucks. All that there are a bunch of soldiers with guns. yes there are elite units equipped with riot gear. However, that is not their job. Soldiers are not there to fight riots. They are there to respond to catastrophic events and war. Once the eilte unit lines are breached, the next line are the thousands of poor conscripts who may think twice about shooting their countrymen and women. This is how revolutions occur.

Are you the Tactician that told Bush to declare victory in the Iraq War in May 2003?

...remembr the filipinos ticking theirroses into the barrels of the solidiers' M-16s during the last days of president ferdinand marcos?

well said, the thousands of serfs and poor conscripts will think twice before on their own countrymen from upnorth...

chances are if that happen, the bloodshed will be unimaginable this time....

again, well said, the army is for war purposes.....

crossing the line can mean only........

The problem dear is that in your analogy it is THAKSIN who is MARCOS! And the Flip protesters were really peaceful and weren't threatening to use MOLOTOV COCKTAILS (and had before) and worse. If you are going to use comparisons, use ACCURATE ones. Otherwise, pure propaganda. Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[somo]

Poll is slanted by the questions and options.

If you asked - Do the reds have good reason to demand change? with a simple yes or no option you may get a different result.

As of now it is just over 50% in favour of kicking them out - hardly conclusive considering most farangs here are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice.

I can help you open your own poll your way if you don't know how. Just PM me. I detest complainers who whine about polls when they could bloody well start one themselves (but be warned, people will RIP yours apart).

I see you recognise yourself as one of those I was referring to.

I see. You aren't really interested in doing anything except to hurl insults. Next ...

Precisely the point. You feel insulted. I wonder why

[Jingthing]

Precisely the point. You feel insulted. I wonder why

I don't feel insulted. I feel annoyed by a whiner who is all about whining with no interest in doing anything productive. Good bye. We have finished talking. Thank you.

[hoilai]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

Short term solution - Long term nightmare:

square face returns, corrupts the judiciary, start again controlling medias and filling deeeeeeep pockets

No, thank you.

"democracy is not my goal" (Taksin Shinawatra)

We need lots of tear gas, sound machines, water canons and detention trucks.... I'm sure if protesters over ran Congress while it was in session, you'd see rubber bullets flying, people being escorted to jail and thousands scurrying away - AND RIGHTLY SO!!!!

good point, but we are in the united provinces of thailand, not the u.s. of a,

too too bad.....

Edited April 8, 2010 by hoilai

[BigBikeBKK]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

Vote once? That's no fun. Well I for one am voting early and frequently as they say in the Democratic stronghold of Chicago, Obama's hometown.

So far it does appear that most of the Farangs on this board are liberal European socialist CS's. Pity that.

I'm American and voted "To disperse the protesters and arrest the red shirts leaders ". Calling someone a "liberal" as if it's a dirty word is a tired and worn out Neo-con cliche. Obama won, get over it. I'm wishing Abhisit luck- he's been patient enough with the mob and it's time to send 'em home for Songkran and the leaders to jail.

[xenomorph]

Soo... Exactly what is Abhisit accused for by the reds?

He was legally elected by the parliament. He's been in charge for this country for merely 16 months. So what have he been doing wrong during this time? Or is that the red are pissed off because he is not their man? So every time a group of people doesn't get "their man" to rule this country, they will get rid of the government and have new elections??

Or does it have something to do with Thaksin's assets been confiscated?

Edited April 8, 2010 by xenomorph

[somo]

Precisely the point. You feel insulted. I wonder why

I don't feel insulted. I feel annoyed by a whiner who is all about whining with no interest in doing anything productive. Good bye. We have finished talking. Thank you.

Please don't feel insulted. I was referring to "farangs here (who) are bigots who consider themselves superior to ordinary Thais let alone the poor villagers who are finding a voice." I suppose if you class yourself as part of that group then it would be a different matter.