What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[Thai at Heart]

Gee! Sure am glad that this topic has been kept out of politics, hot in Thailand this time of year isn't it?

Sod it; let's have a general election!

Can't bring myself to vote for Cameron though!!

Oh come on he went to the same school as Abhisit. Give the guy a break.

Please don't say you go with good old Gordon who today PROMISED, if you vote for me you will definitely get me for 5 more years.

[BigC]

step down he is too expensive

[rametindallas]

Abhisit should ask his boss Suthep to become Primne Minister for two or three months. Than held elections and if he and his boss are not bluffing he will become an elected Prim Minister.

If he does not make it because people vote someone else in they should give the power to the people who can fire all judges from the kangaroo courts write a new constitution which revokes the amnesty that Sobthi gave himself after raping the countries democracy and ruining the prospects of the country to come out of the dark ages.

The gap between the poor and the rich is bigger than in China, bigger than in India. Abhsit should be ashamed of that.

The income gap in Thailand is smaller than the income gap in the U.S. where even poor people live better than most of the World's middle class. It's about opportunity to get ahead in life and begins with quality education. You are being ridiculous blaming Abhisit for the state of affairs in Thailand when the so-called 'Education PM' (Dr. Taksin) did nothing during his long tenure to improve education of the disadvantaged. BTW I am a big booster of the poor in Yasothon and send a substantial sum each month to support the education of my GF's 2 siblings. FYI I believe the Yellow leaders should serve substantial prison terms for disrupting Thailand's economy as should the current '3 Amigos'.

[Thai at Heart]

Abhisit should ask his boss Suthep to become Primne Minister for two or three months. Than held elections and if he and his boss are not bluffing he will become an elected Prim Minister.

If he does not make it because people vote someone else in they should give the power to the people who can fire all judges from the kangaroo courts write a new constitution which revokes the amnesty that Sobthi gave himself after raping the countries democracy and ruining the prospects of the country to come out of the dark ages.

The gap between the poor and the rich is bigger than in China, bigger than in India. Abhsit should be ashamed of that.

The income gap in Thailand is smaller than the income gap in the U.S. where even poor people live better than most of the World's middle class. It's about opportunity to get ahead in life and begins with quality education. You are being ridiculous blaming Abhisit for the state of affairs in Thailand when the so-called 'Education PM' (Dr. Taksin) did nothing during his long tenure to improve education of the disadvantaged. BTW I am a big booster of the poor in Yasothon and send a substantial sum each month to support the education of my GF's 2 siblings. FYI I believe the Yellow leaders should serve substantial prison terms for disrupting Thailand's economy as should the current '3 Amigos'.

Please read the limitations of the Gini Co-efficient as a measure of income disparity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Gini coefficients do include investment income; however, the Gini coefficient based on net income does not accurately reflect differences in wealth - a possible source of misinterpretation. For example, Sweden has a low Gini coefficient for income distribution but a significantly higher Gini coefficient for wealth (for instance 77% of the share value owned by households is held by just 5% of Swedish shareholding households )[12]. In other words, the Gini income coefficient should not be interpreted as measuring effective egalitarianism.

Too often only the Gini coefficient is quoted without describing the proportions of the quantiles used for measurement. As with other inequality coefficients, the Gini coefficient is influenced by the granularity of the measurements. For example, five 20% quantiles (low granularity) will usually yield a lower Gini coefficient than twenty 5% quantiles (high granularity) taken from the same distribution. This is an often encountered problem with measurements.

Care should be taken in using the Gini coefficient as a measure of egalitarianism, as it is properly a measure of income dispersion. For example, if two equally egalitarian countries pursue different immigration policies, the country accepting higher proportion of low-income or impoverished migrants will be assessed as less equal (gain a higher Gini coefficient).

The Gini coefficient is a point-estimate of equality at a certain time, hence it ignores life-span changes in income. Typically, increases in the proportion of young or old members of a society will drive apparent changes in equality. Because of this, factors such as age distribution within a population and mobility within income classes can create the appearance of differential equality when none exist taking into account demographic effects. Thus a given economy may have a higher Gini coefficient at any one point in time compared to another, while the Gini coefficient calculated over individuals' lifetime income is actually lower than the apparently more equal (at a given point in time) economy's.[13] Essentially, what matters is not just inequality in any particular year, but the composition of the distribution over time.

The Gini coefficient is a measure only of inequality. Countries can have the same Gini coefficient but have completely different levels of wealth and indeed it is possible for a more equal country to be poorer at every level of income. Similarly, the Gini coefficient as measured over time does not measure growth in incomes.

Comparing income distributions among countries may be difficult because benefits systems may differ. For example, some countries give benefits in the form of money while others give food stamps, which might not be counted by some economists and researchers as income in the Lorenz curve and therefore not taken into account in the Gini coefficient. The USA counts income before benefits, while France counts it after benefits, making the USA appear slightly more unequal vis-a-vis France than it admittedly is. In another example, USSR appeared to have relatively high income inequality: by some estimates, in the late 70's, Gini coefficient of its urban population was as high as 0.38[14], which is higher than many Western countries today. This apparent inequality ignored the fact that many benefits received by Soviet citizens were nonmonetary and were afforded regardless of income: these benefits included, among others, free child care for children as young as 2 months, free elementary, secondary and higher education, free cradle-to-grave medical care, free or heavily subsidized housing. In this example, an accurate comparison between the 1970s USSR and Western countries would require one to assign monetary values to such benefits (a difficult task in the absence of free markets). Similar problems arise whenever a comparison between pure free-market economies and partially socialist economies is attempted. Benefits may take various and unexpected forms: for example, major oil producers such as Venezuela and Iran provide indirect benefits to its citizens by subsidizing the retail price of gasoline.

Similarly, in some societies people may have significant income in other forms than money, for example through subsistence farming or bartering. Like non-monetary benefits, the value of these incomes is difficult to quantify. Different quantifications of these incomes will yield different Gini coefficients.

The measure will give different results when applied to individuals instead of households. When different populations are not measured with consistent definitions, comparison is not meaningful.

As for all statistics, there may be systematic and random errors in the data. The meaning of the Gini coefficient decreases as the data become less accurate. Also, countries may collect data differently, making it difficult to compare statistics between countries

Of course the US will now be more comparable with some more enlightened parts of the world that think for some strange reason providing healthcare for its people is probably a good thing. There are plenty in the world who wouldn't take too much pride in claiming that what happens in the US is a paragon of social equity.

[rametindallas]

QUOTE (mythBuster @ 2010-04-08 17:20:41) Abhisit should ask his boss Suthep to become Primne Minister for two or three months. Than held elections and if he and his boss are not bluffing he will become an elected Prim Minister.

If he does not make it because people vote someone else in they should give the power to the people who can fire all judges from the kangaroo courts write a new constitution which revokes the amnesty that Sobthi gave himself after raping the countries democracy and ruining the prospects of the country to come out of the dark ages.

The gap between the poor and the rich is bigger than in China, bigger than in India. Abhsit should be ashamed of that.

I'll take the income disparity of the U.S. everytime over the universality of the poor in China and India. Still, no rebuttal of my main point of the so-called 'Education PM' and what he did not do for the disadvantaged of Thailand!

[monkfish]

Is Exile an option?

[Publicus]

Clear the streets now. This is difficult to say given teenagers are among the Redshirt mob, that the Redshirts do have some valid socioeconomic grievances and given that I myself spent several years in the streets of Boston, New York and Washington getting CS gassed and clubbed in opposition to the Vietnam War. The people have the right to petition the government for redress of grievances but they do not have the right to try to destroy the country primarily in the interests and to the sole benefit of one single man who, when he did rule, proved to be an unashamed tyrant and open advocate of corruption as being in the nature of Thai culture. This is not a man to be a leader, nor is he to be emulated or accepted as the standard of national leadership in the name of democracy.

The Redshirts haven't anything to do with correcting a wrong policy decision, as in the case of the US government in Vietnam. The Redshirts rather want their peice of the proverbial pie while Thaksin wants control of the country to include the power to decide the size of the pie to the rural poor.

There isn't any sympathy for the Redshirts in Bangkok. I've been around Centerpoint since Sunday and all I see are Reds talking to Reds, Reds in pickups with other Reds, Reds cycling with Reds, Reds standing around with Reds, Reds eating with Reds, Reds sitting with Reds, Reds walking with Reds. I don't see any Bangkokians extending their hand (or even a finger) to welcome or support the Reds. Bangkokians are grossly inconvenienced, disrupted and economically harmed but rather adopt the mai pen rai attitude to let the Reds be. At this point in time, however, since the 2006 coup there isn't any support in the city for Thaksin or the Reds to grab onto in their attempts to topple the government. All Thaksin and the Reds can hope for now is a Red Coup which, while unlikely, is something we now seem to be hearing rumors about.

Stop it now. The failure to stop the Yellows at the airport by a Thaksin led proxy government has put the country in an endless spiral of public disorder to the point now of bordering on anarchy. The State of Emergency means nothing if it doesn't immediately settle the place down, to clearify to all of the society what happens when continuing and unrelenting disorder is bred and funded by a fugitive traitor from abroad.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Publicus

[LaoPo]

What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

If the elite- and military backed Abhisit is confident enough he can win the new elections there's no reason why he shouldn't call for completely free and new elections; not in 9 months like he suggested but in 2 to 3 months.

That would calm the present situation and the problems would be gone for the time being.

But....will the democrats win enough to form a new government ? (eventual with coalition partners)

Are the elite and military willing to let Abhisit have new free elections....?

hmmm.....I don't know.

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

I am including this link from another thread about the reasons foreigners in Thailand have become divided politically about the red shirts.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LD07Ae01.html

I suggest EVERYONE read it. It really made me think. It made me feel more tolerant of the foreign supporters of the red shirts and it may make the other side more tolerant of the anti-red foreigners, like me. Almost all of us want the same thing in the end, more of a democracy, more social justice.

I don't think it will make you change sides, if that worries you. It also became even more clear to me that the key reasons I oppose the red shirts are:

-- the linkage to Thaksin, the fact that Thaksin was becoming a dictator before he went down. To me, he is the opposite of a pro-democratic leader

-- my dislike for strong men politicians especially when they are very corrupt

-- seeing other SE Asian countries with lefty regimes, and thinking Thailand would not be better like that

-- hope that more moderated, less revolutionary, slower but less destructive path towards more social justice can occur without a red revolution and its inherent dangers

The darker reason the article suggests that some anti-reds are that way (going native and identifying with the Thai elite) is interesting but has nothing to do with me. I don't identify with them.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

If the elite- and military backed Abhisit is confident enough he can win the new elections there's no reason why he shouldn't call for completely free and new elections; not in 9 months like he suggested but in 2 to 3 months.

That would calm the present situation and the problems would be gone for the time being.

But....will the democrats win enough to form a new government ? (eventual with coalition partners)

Are the elite and military willing to let Abhisit have new free elections....?

hmmm.....I don't know.

LaoPo

The reality is that no one can be confident of an election outcome in this atmosphere whether the election were held in two months, six months, nine months or later in 2011. The are too many uncertainties and wild radical factors in normal electoral politics, nevermind under present cirumstances for anyone on either side to be confident of winning the next election - regardless of whenever it might be. Indeed, given the prevailing overt national mood and the everpresent political undercurrents, the sooner an election might be called the more unpredictable for either side the outcome could be, would be. Both camps know this. The reason the Red Camp is pushing for elections sooner rather than later - tomorow isn't soon enuff for them - is that the Red Camp is out of the government. The Red Camp therefore has to roll the dice, has to push for a snap election in the gamble they can try by all means to control the process and thus the outcome.

The Democrat led coalition and their partners are reasonably confident they could come out ahead in the next election but also know that so many wild card factors are at play that going for a poll would not even rise to the level of being a calculated risk they could reasonably take. Indeed, for the Red Camp, not having a snap election gamble is a loss; for the government, not having a wild snap election gamble is a left-handed, non-event win. It's practical and pragmatic, real politics and cold political calculationing by those on either side. In the wild and unpredicable poll the Reds need and want, either side could win or loose and both sides know it. In other words, the Red Camp is desperate to have a poll whereas the government simply needs to sit tight.

Everyone who knows politics knows having an election this year would be to precipitate a wild, unpredictable and likely bloody process which would further divide the country in that, given each side believes it could win, neither side would accept the predictably hairy outcome of a desperate process. Thus no wild and unpredictable electoral processes this year, no wild or unpredictable electoral outcome this year. Checkmate.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Publicus

[LaoPo]

Everyone who knows politics knows having an election this year would be to precipitate a wild, unpredictable and likely bloody process which would further divide the country in that, given each side believes it could win, neither side would accept the predictably hairy outcome of a desperate process. Thus no wild and unpredictable electoral processes this year, no wild or unpredictable electoral outcome this year. Checkmate.

Maybe that's what you wish but it's not what many Thai want.

It's the poor against the establishment and everybody knows very well that in the end.....the poor always win, no matter how long it takes.

Don't forget the 45% (of total Thai workforce) laborers in agriculture! The severe and extreme droughts doesn't really help the establishment to calm the poor...I'm talking about a 17/18 million people workforce here with wives and husbands and grand parents and children to take care of....it's a ticking time bomb.

If there are no elections to be hold, there wild be an unpredictable bloodshed as well and the establishment will be pushed back in the corner further and further, until the poor silent majority bomb bursts. God and Buddha forbid....

I hope I'm wrong

LaoPo

[yoshiwara]

Everyone who knows politics knows having an election this year would be to precipitate a wild, unpredictable and likely bloody process which would further divide the country in that, given each side believes it could win, neither side would accept the predictably hairy outcome of a desperate process. Thus no wild and unpredictable electoral processes this year, no wild or unpredictable electoral outcome this year. Checkmate.

Maybe that's what you wish but it's not what many Thai want.

It's the poor against the establishment and everybody knows very well that in the end.....the poor always win, no matter how long it takes.

Don't forget the 45% (of total Thai workforce) laborers in agriculture! The severe and extreme droughts doesn't really help the establishment to calm the poor...I'm talking about a 17/18 million people workforce here with wives and husbands and grand parents and children to take care of....it's a ticking time bomb.

If there are no elections to be hold, there wild be an unpredictable bloodshed as well and the establishment will be pushed back in the corner further and further, until the poor silent majority bomb bursts. God and Buddha forbid....

I hope I'm wrong

LaoPo

You must be living in some Maoist fantasy land.

Also the idea that Thaksin's forces represent clear class forces is ridiculous.

The reds present zero economic demands re the peasantry.

I repeat, Thaksin has no class demands as part of his programme.

His only programme is a personal return to power supported by an amalgam of regional cross-class interests subordinated to the regional landowners.

There is no fool like a Maoist fool.

[LaoPo]

Everyone who knows politics knows having an election this year would be to precipitate a wild, unpredictable and likely bloody process which would further divide the country in that, given each side believes it could win, neither side would accept the predictably hairy outcome of a desperate process. Thus no wild and unpredictable electoral processes this year, no wild or unpredictable electoral outcome this year. Checkmate.

Maybe that's what you wish but it's not what many Thai want.

It's the poor against the establishment and everybody knows very well that in the end.....the poor always win, no matter how long it takes.

Don't forget the 45% (of total Thai workforce) laborers in agriculture! The severe and extreme droughts doesn't really help the establishment to calm the poor...I'm talking about a 17/18 million people workforce here with wives and husbands and grand parents and children to take care of....it's a ticking time bomb.

If there are no elections to be hold, there wild be an unpredictable bloodshed as well and the establishment will be pushed back in the corner further and further, until the poor silent majority bomb bursts. God and Buddha forbid....

I hope I'm wrong

LaoPo

You must be living in some Maoist fantasy land.

Also the idea that Thaksin's forces represent clear class forces is ridiculous.

The reds present zero economic demands re the peasantry.

I repeat, Thaksin has no class demands as part of his programme.

His only programme is a personal return to power supported by an amalgam of regional cross-class interests subordinated to the regional landowners.

There is no fool like a Maoist fool.

To call a fellow member during a discussion a fool is something only fools do. Gentlemen debaters don't.

I never spoke of "forces".

If you know a little about the world's history, no matter the country, you will know that in the end the "people" will always win and succeed, especially if they live in poor circumstances.

The Romans already knew...."give them bread and games" to calm and control the unhappy and poor masses.

Time will tell the same for Thailand. Too many people on this forum still hang on in the past, still talking about Thaksin; they forget the unrest and protests aren't about (exclusively) Thaksin anymore.

It's the uncomfortable and poor circumstances so many millions still live in because all those past and present governments did NOTHING for their poor citizens, only taking care of themselves and that includes Thaksin.

But Thaksin understood the poor better than the other elite and military; whatever bad things he did, he understood the underlying needs of the poor much better than any other past government and one way or another he was able to make a bond with them.

Thaksin is gone and his powers are fading away but the needs of the poor masses are still there.

Abhisit has no feeling, no compassion, no "touch" with the poor masses and the elite and military might be able to control the poor a bit longer and keep Abhisit in the saddle but there will be a day that they will loose control and that won't be a very nice day.

Free elections, the sooner the better is the only way out for a peaceful solution to control the poor masses.

The fact that the only country leader, not being present in Hanoi during the ASEAN conference is Abhisit, is frowned upon by the other Asean Leaders already.

"problems in Thailand, protests in Thailand, riots in Thailand....?....again? " ...."this Abhisit must be a pussy...."

It shows the elite and military are loosing ground, loosing control...slipping away, not being able to comfort the Thai population and especially the poor. They had more than 3 years to try and do so since the coup but they failed in every respect.

Did they provide "bread and games" for the poor? Did they increase the living standards for the poor ?

The Romans understood much better than the Thai leaders, and for a much longer period of time.........until the moment that the Roman leaders also failed and the system collapsed and the poor took over.

The same will happen to Thailand; it will take some time but it WILL happen.

LaoPo

[elshaheen]

wipe out all the red shirts, all of them.

[bacchanal]

His government is corrupt, there has already been many scandals.

Have not a few MP's resigned due to corruption ?

Reds sure are funny people.

They go from "many" to a "few" in the span of 12 minutes.

[bacchanal]

Are there any children among the crowds? If so the warning should now be given they are putting their offspring in the way of potential danger.

Yes, there are children present. They are responding to the direct advice of the red leader in Dubai to bring their children to his protests.

Of course, his own children are not present. He wouldn't want anything unsettling to happen to his own elite offspring.

[Changian]

Back on Topic - What should Abhisit do . . .

He's probably wishing that the demonstrations were taking place in a seaside town like Pattaya or Hua Hin then the army could just round up the protestors, put them in engineless boats and tow them out to sea. Out of sight, out of mind - just hope too many don't wash up in Indonesia somewhere and then blab to Dan Rivers.

[ozzydom]

B for me

[tracymeaw]

I’m just happy to see that the option 1 crowd (Dissolve Parliament) is winning the poll! How did this happen you ask? Group 1 decided that Group 2 was buying votes (one poster already admitted to selling a vote to Group 2) and so, Group 1 decided that Group 2 is guilty of voting fraud. The right thing to do under the rule of law and to preserve normalcy is to get army backing, dissolve Group 2 voting party, ban their leaders and bribe/threaten remaining members to jump ship to the new majority… Group 1! Completely legal and democratic! Group 1 drew up a new constitution to say it legal, so it must be true.

No reason to try and challenge this post because in this scenario you can’t!! Thaivisa had its plug pulled when the government discovered they were generating a poll that was violating the above mentioned rule of law. This was the last post ever for thaivisa. So you see, Group 1 wins by a landslide! Just think of it as democracy with a “Made in Thailand” label affixed. I'm glad you all agree with me 110%... sure beats going to prison doesn't it.

[geriatrickid]

It is unfortunate that not one of you proponents of maintainingg the law and responding to the redshirt 'aggressors' has not taken the time to respond to ignorant comments from people demanding murder and genocide;

Start putting redshirts in jail.

Better still...shoot them.....

wipe out all the red shirts, all of them.

There are many comments posted by self professed superior farangs, but what civilised person says to wipe them all out?

Can some of you people opposed to the red shirts understand now why you are seen with such contempt? For many of you, this isn't about law &order or stability, but is about coping with your own personal demons. Unfortunately, the type of person that would advocate mass murder, usually has a history of criminal or anti-social behaviour. Once people are dehumanized, it becomes easier to offer the hungry desperate child money in return for sex, to cheat people in commercial transactions, to beat up the wife or kids etc. Those that advocate murder and genocide, tend to be cowards once confronted. One need only look at the many scared psychos at the Bosnian and Nuremburg war crimes trials. All quick to blame someone else. Perhaps now some of you can understand why many Thais would be happy to be rid of a large number of foreigners.

Those two posts are despicable. And the folks whining in here about no respect for decency, are no better for not speaking up.

[khunjamespittman]

wipe out all the red shirts, all of them.

What did you expect to accomplish with this hateful post?

We should all be trying to calm the situation and hopefully lead to some legitmate and reasonable proposalsto lead to an early election to put a legitimate govenment selected by the popular will of the citizens of Thailand.

Please try to make some civil contributions.

[khunjamespittman]

Are there any children among the crowds? If so the warning should now be given they are putting their offspring in the way of potential danger.

Yes, there are children present. They are responding to the direct advice of the red leader in Dubai to bring their children to his protests.

Of course, his own children are not present. He wouldn't want anything unsettling to happen to his own elite offspring.

Stop this nonsense! Thaksin has been accused of every crime in the world.

You have no knowledge of what is or is not happening in Dubai. You were probably cheering when earlier false post stated that they had factual information form the Dubai government that Thaksin had been kicked,

Please confine your post to real, substantiated facts. Talk about what you know! Not what you fanticize about!

[anotherpeter]

"Too many people on this forum still hang on in the past, still talking about Thaksin; they forget the unrest and protests aren't about (exclusively) Thaksin anymore."

If the protests were about the poor, then the red leaders would be talking about policies to help the poor. The only policy that they have to "help" the poor, is to bring back Thaksin.

That is why many people on this forum are still talking about him. Currently, Thaksin is the main issue.

Most red supporters also look to the past to blame the coup junta. The keep bringing up the coup junta as blame for everything that they disagree with.

They blame the constitution of coup junta for the charges against Thaksin. They conveniently ignore that the charges against Thaksin were from the 1997 constitution.

They blame the constitution of coup junta for the PPP being disbanded. They conveniently ignore that many of the changes were to stop electoral corruption.

They blame the disbanding of the PPP by the courts on the coup junta. They conveniently ignore that the PPP executive were caught red handed committing electoral fraud.

They blame the coup junta for unfair elections. They conveniently ignore that most of the actions were to reduce electoral fraud and vote buying.

They blame the coup junta for intimidation during the elections. They conveniently ignore that in many red electorates that other parties could not campaign because of threats on their lives.

They say the disbanding of the PPP allowed the Democrats to come to power. They conveniently ignore that the PTP could have still formed a coalition government if they had the support of the smaller parties.

They blame the coup junta for the smaller parties changing the support from the Thaksin parties to the Democrats. They conveniently ignore that many of the smaller parties campaigned that they wouldn't support the PPP.

The say it was the coup junta that put Abhisit in as an unelected PM. They conveniently ignore that in a democracy, elected MPs vote for the PM.

The red supporters can not move forward and wait for elections in Dec 2011 when they are due, or even Dec 2010 when they have been offerred.

The red supporters want to go back to the past and bring back Thaksin.

[anotherpeter]

Are there any children among the crowds? If so the warning should now be given they are putting their offspring in the way of potential danger.

Yes, there are children present. They are responding to the direct advice of the red leader in Dubai to bring their children to his protests.

Of course, his own children are not present. He wouldn't want anything unsettling to happen to his own elite offspring.

Stop this nonsense! Thaksin has been accused of every crime in the world.

You have no knowledge of what is or is not happening in Dubai. You were probably cheering when earlier false post stated that they had factual information form the Dubai government that Thaksin had been kicked,

Please confine your post to real, substantiated facts. Talk about what you know! Not what you fanticize about!

Did you miss Thaksin's call in where he told the red supporters to bring their children?

[khunjamespittman]

dissolve parliament is the best way to end this protest.

Short term solution - Long term nightmare:

square face returns, corrupts the judiciary, start again controlling medias and filling deeeeeeep pockets

No, thank you.

"democracy is not my goal" (Taksin Shinawatra)

Re your Taksin quote. If that is indeed his let me explain. Allot of people are confused by the term democracy and all it's implications. For example, the United States of America is not a democracy. We are a republic, a representative republic. That. I believe is what Taksin was talking about. He didn't want a European Democracy run by elites but he wanted a true, representative republic, of the people, by the people, for the people but one in which the minority views would be protected.

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and ( The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority. http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/American...cts/demrep.html

Not quite sure where you are from but US governments model is properly called "a representative democratic republic".

It is a democratic form of government! It is a Democracy!

[anotherpeter]

I'm just happy to see that the option 1 crowd (Dissolve Parliament) is winning the poll! How did this happen you ask? Group 1 decided that Group 2 was buying votes (one poster already admitted to selling a vote to Group 2) and so, Group 1 decided that Group 2 is guilty of voting fraud. The right thing to do under the rule of law and to preserve normalcy is to get army backing, dissolve Group 2 voting party, ban their leaders and bribe/threaten remaining members to jump ship to the new majority… Group 1! Completely legal and democratic! Group 1 drew up a new constitution to say it legal, so it must be true.

No reason to try and challenge this post because in this scenario you can't!! Thaivisa had its plug pulled when the government discovered they were generating a poll that was violating the above mentioned rule of law. This was the last post ever for thaivisa. So you see, Group 1 wins by a landslide! Just think of it as democracy with a "Made in Thailand" label affixed. I'm glad you all agree with me 110%... sure beats going to prison doesn't it.

LaoPo ... I rest my case.

[khunjamespittman]

Are there any children among the crowds? If so the warning should now be given they are putting their offspring in the way of potential danger.

Yes, there are children present. They are responding to the direct advice of the red leader in Dubai to bring their children to his protests.

Of course, his own children are not present. He wouldn't want anything unsettling to happen to his own elite offspring.

Stop this nonsense! Thaksin has been accused of every crime in the world.

You have no knowledge of what is or is not happening in Dubai. You were probably cheering when earlier false post stated that they had factual information form the Dubai government that Thaksin had been kicked,

Please confine your post to real, substantiated facts. Talk about what you know! Not what you fanticize about!

Did you miss Thaksin's call in where he told the red supporters to bring their children?

Not quite sure what to make of a post like this. We all need to stop trying to parse everyone's words and start trying to contribute someething positive toward making Thailand a better place for all it's people.

i see no advantage in this tit for tat kind of dialogue.

[teetersb]

What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

If the elite- and military backed Abhisit is confident enough he can win the new elections there's no reason why he shouldn't call for completely free and new elections; not in 9 months like he suggested but in 2 to 3 months.

That would calm the present situation and the problems would be gone for the time being.

But....will the democrats win enough to form a new government ? (eventual with coalition partners)

Are the elite and military willing to let Abhisit have new free elections....?

hmmm.....I don't know.

LaoPo

The reality is that no one can be confident of an election outcome in this atmosphere whether the election were held in two months, six months, nine months or later in 2011. The are too many uncertainties and wild radical factors in normal electoral politics, nevermind under present cirumstances for anyone on either side to be confident of winning the next election - regardless of whenever it might be. Indeed, given the prevailing overt national mood and the everpresent political undercurrents, the sooner an election might be called the more unpredictable for either side the outcome could be, would be. Both camps know this. The reason the Red Camp is pushing for elections sooner rather than later - tomorow isn't soon enuff for them - is that the Red Camp is out of the government. The Red Camp therefore has to roll the dice, has to push for a snap election in the gamble they can try by all means to control the process and thus the outcome.

The Democrat led coalition and their partners are reasonably confident they could come out ahead in the next election but also know that so many wild card factors are at play that going for a poll would not even rise to the level of being a calculated risk they could reasonably take. Indeed, for the Red Camp, not having a snap election gamble is a loss; for the government, not having a wild snap election gamble is a left-handed, non-event win. It's practical and pragmatic, real politics and cold political calculationing by those on either side. In the wild and unpredicable poll the Reds need and want, either side could win or loose and both sides know it. In other words, the Red Camp is desperate to have a poll whereas the government simply needs to sit tight.

Everyone who knows politics knows having an election this year would be to precipitate a wild, unpredictable and likely bloody process which would further divide the country in that, given each side believes it could win, neither side would accept the predictably hairy outcome of a desperate process. Thus no wild and unpredictable electoral processes this year, no wild or unpredictable electoral outcome this year. Checkmate.

Well Said!

[gymboy33]

i think abhisit has played his last possible card,maybe his trump or last play..

and he's basically hoping the army are gonna get up and break up their Rajprasong Intersection rally

but maybe the army wont do anything because anupong doesnt want his legacy tainted with blood

if they dont lift a finger like they didnt with the yellows and the reds continue to run amok,,abhisit will have to resign...

[anotherpeter]

Yes, there are children present. They are responding to the direct advice of the red leader in Dubai to bring their children to his protests.

Of course, his own children are not present. He wouldn't want anything unsettling to happen to his own elite offspring.

Stop this nonsense! Thaksin has been accused of every crime in the world.

You have no knowledge of what is or is not happening in Dubai. You were probably cheering when earlier false post stated that they had factual information form the Dubai government that Thaksin had been kicked,

Please confine your post to real, substantiated facts. Talk about what you know! Not what you fanticize about!

Did you miss Thaksin's call in where he told the red supporters to bring their children?

Not quite sure what to make of a post like this. We all need to stop trying to parse everyone's words and start trying to contribute someething positive toward making Thailand a better place for all it's people.

i see no advantage in this tit for tat kind of dialogue.

Khun James, your post said "Please confine your post to real, substantiated facts. Talk about what you know! Not what you fanticize about!".

As soon as I point out that it was widely reported that Thaksin said to bring your children, you don't know what to make of it????