Thai Forces Use Tear Gas, Water Cannon Against Protesters

[way2muchcoffee]

I hate to teach people to suck eggs, but please look backwards.

Sondthi, the coup leader who granted himself immunity and said he would never enter politics, who now is in a political party............. (tells you everything)

Sondthi said that he was scared Thaksin would invoke the SOE, as once the SOE is invoked the top brass can be replaced for failing to follow orders.

I think we are seeing a massive fight between Annupong and Abhisit/Suthep.

In order to appear to follow orders its why the Army put up a weak fight, fired some tear gas and then fell back at Thaicom.

Annupong has followed orders so Abhisit and Suthep cannot replace him.

Its all a game but it tells you loud and clear that the invoking of the SOE was a game by Suthep/Abhisit to get rid of Annupong.

We now have the Reds against the Democrats and the Army against the Democrats.

There could well be a coup soon, or more likely Annupong, the man said to be behind getting the small parties to go with the Democrats, will tonight get the small parties to join PTP and get the Democrats kicked out of office.

Possible. Amongst many other possibilities. I seriously doubt Abhisit or Suthep want to square off with the military.

Edited April 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[animatic]

No, regardless of it's truth it is akin to yelling fire

in a crowded room filled with people wearing straw clothes.

Surely some innocents will be injured.

Sure it's truth if there is a fire, but it's also not allowed.

Then charges should have been laid and a case made before a judge. The process used circumvents due process.

The reference is made about yelling fire in crowded theater, well what if there really is a fire? I was watching the Red TV station and just this afternoon another apparent red station where I saw soldiers being cheered and smiling as they walked through a crowd of reds in some provincial areawith some waing and others dcorated in red ribbons (I hope someone will explain that). I was not incited to commit an act of violence. Bored to tears. puzzled but nothing else. I fully agree that if a station is preaching violence something must be done, but it should be done before the courts.

Even with a real fire it is STILL not legal to yell fire.

You can say The show is stopping now.

Every one must leave the theater quickly but immediately in an orderly fashion.

Yelling fire causes panics and slows or impedes egress.

Courts have ruled this.

[hokibob]

The headline should be updated " The reds had recaptured the Thaicom"...The reds had gained so much momentum , I think abhisit time is near..He has insubordination from the military officials... Who is the commander in chief in Thailand ? (for sure its not abhisit)....

He doesn't have insubordination. The military was ordered not to use force. But now the ante is upped and they will start to use force. Can't wait til they start arresting those leaders!

But i think its too late now to use force... U must see the movie Gladiator " follow the crowd"... lots of people already watched the reds had come with victory...its suicidal if military uses forces now and im sure they are all become opportunist and see who's goin to win the crowd and they follow their orders..Abhisit is probably surrounded by opportunist followers also as they might just betray and bring him down one day ( Like caesar who was killed by his right hand man brutus)...

[LevelHead]

I hate to teach people to suck eggs, but please look backwards.

Sondthi, the coup leader who granted himself immunity and said he would never enter politics, who now is in a political party............. (tells you everything)

Sondthi said that he was scared Thaksin would invoke the SOE, as once the SOE is invoked the top brass can be replaced for failing to follow orders.

I think we are seeing a massive fight between Annupong and Abhisit/Suthep.

In order to appear to follow orders its why the Army put up a weak fight, fired some tear gas and then fell back at Thaicom.

Annupong has followed orders so Abhisit and Suthep cannot replace him.

Its all a game but it tells you loud and clear that the invoking of the SOE was a game by Suthep/Abhisit to get rid of Annupong.

We now have the Reds against the Democrats and the Army against the Democrats.

There could well be a coup soon, or more likely Annupong, the man said to be behind getting the small parties to go with the Democrats, will tonight get the small parties to join PTP and get the Democrats kicked out of office.

Possible. Amongst many other possibilities, but I seriously doubt Abhisit or Suthep want to square off with the military.

Tonight may well be the final night of the Abhisit/Suthep "nightmare" team in charge of Thailand.

Hopefully by the end of tomorrow either the House will be dissolved or changes will be made and the Democrats kicked out of office.

If PTP can get back into power (former PPP) then perhaps we can see the 1997 "Peoples" constitution back into place, which would be a great thing for Democracy in Thailand.

[Jerrytheyoung]

No, regardless of it's truth it is akin to yelling fire

in a crowded room filled with people wearing straw clothes.

Surely some innocents will be injured.

Sure it's truth if there is a fire, but it's also not allowed.

Then charges should have been laid and a case made before a judge. The process used circumvents due process.

The reference is made about yelling fire in crowded theater, well what if there really is a fire? I was watching the Red TV station and just this afternoon another apparent red station where I saw soldiers being cheered and smiling as they walked through a crowd of reds in some provincial areawith some waing and others dcorated in red ribbons (I hope someone will explain that). I was not incited to commit an act of violence. Bored to tears. puzzled but nothing else. I fully agree that if a station is preaching violence something must be done, but it should be done before the courts.

Agree and it is not the role of Army to be involved in such operations, it must be reserved to special Police Forces. Army is for external threats, Army is Unity of a Country not fighting a faction of fellow citizens. This is a big mis-use in a Democratic Country.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Voided,

Sorry double posting

Edited April 9, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[MAJIC]

state of emergency should not be used against the cornerstone of the democratic process - independent mass media.

Many now would be convinced, in thailand and abroad, that thailand really is an authoritarian regime state, ruled by the army and police, with disregard to laws

What utter misguided nonsense you post!

[jfchandler]

It's hard to see that today was anything but a major embarrassment for the government.

Without taking any sides in this, just as an outsider, it's pretty bad if you swear publicly up and down that you're not going to let something happen. And then it happens with hardly any meaningful resistance from the police and/or the army....

The scariest part is...what does that say about the actual level of control the government has over its own forces...

It makes one wonder... is the leadership of the government so timid that literally when push came to shove they allowed their own forces to retreat???

Or, the central government is giving (and publicly announcing) orders, and want them carried out. But the police and/or the military are refusing or failing to do so???

In either instance, not very good....

[dobadoy]

Where on earth has anyone got the idea from that PRP/TRT represent democracy? It was under thaksin that all the democratic institutions that were put in place by the 1997 constitution were usurped so that Thaksin could turn himself into a de facto dictator. This was precisely why the other elites (notice that I say other - because Thaksin and everyone in PRP/TRT is part of the same brand, they're just in-fighting over the spoils) kicked him out.

You are blind if you think anything to do with PRP/TRT is about democracy.

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[Jingthing]

Yes he is still looking like the Pattaya Asean summit Abhisit, where he was in deep political trouble most pundits couldn't imagine him recovering from. And then he did indeed recover during Bangkok Black Songkran. So it ain't over till its over. Not predicting the outcome but he has come back from the abyss before, so he may again.

[Jingthing]

Where on earth has anyone got the idea from that PRP/TRT represent democracy? It was under thaksin that all the democratic institutions that were put in place by the 1997 constitution were usurped so that Thaksin could turn himself into a de facto dictator. This was precisely why the other elites (notice that I say other - because Thaksin and everyone in PRP/TRT is part of the same brand, they're just in-fighting over the spoils).

You are blind if you think anything to do with PRP/TRT is about democracy.

I think a lot or even most of these people fooled by the democracy rhetoric weren't in Thailand at the time of Thaksin's rule.

[dobadoy]

Where on earth has anyone got the idea from that PRP/TRT represent democracy? It was under thaksin that all the democratic institutions that were put in place by the 1997 constitution were usurped so that Thaksin could turn himself into a de facto dictator. This was precisely why the other elites (notice that I say other - because Thaksin and everyone in PRP/TRT is part of the same brand, they're just in-fighting over the spoils).

You are blind if you think anything to do with PRP/TRT is about democracy.

I think a lot or even most of these people fooled by the democracy rhetoric weren't in Thailand at the time of Thaksin's rule.

Yep, or they've conveniently forgot that virtually the entire Thai press was intimidated by libel threats or physical violence threats during that time. And talk about PTV - there were many TV channels and internet sites blocked by Thaksin at that time - indeed, as anyone who was here at that time will remember, it is ironic that one of the first things that happened under the military coup of 2006 was restoration of freedom of the press.

[LevelHead]

Where on earth has anyone got the idea from that PRP/TRT represent democracy? It was under thaksin that all the democratic institutions that were put in place by the 1997 constitution were usurped so that Thaksin could turn himself into a de facto dictator. This was precisely why the other elites (notice that I say other - because Thaksin and everyone in PRP/TRT is part of the same brand, they're just in-fighting over the spoils).

You are blind if you think anything to do with PRP/TRT is about democracy.

I think a lot or even most of these people fooled by the democracy rhetoric weren't in Thailand at the time of Thaksin's rule.

LOL

Perhaps they were on the side of the 90% who were better off under Thaksin, as opposed to perhaps you who were on the Yellow 10% side who were worse off.

The "coup" was worse than the accusations against Thaksin.

And may I remind you, the CNS were publicly rebuked by, you know who, the Democrats for failing to find any evidence against Thaksin. It was, IMO, a veiled threat by the Democrats, and reported in the papers, that if the CNS cannot find anything against Thaksin then they will leave themselves open for attack, which kind of encouraged a "super secret" AEC (I kid you not it was all super secret and nobody on the outside of this tiny team was allowed to know or verify anything) to find things wrong with Thaksin.

You seem to forget, many people were here when Thaksin was around, and we did not fall hook line and sinker for the PR campaign against him.

I remind you that Sondthi, the coup leader, is on record as part of the the CNS saying words to the effect " we will use mass psychology in the next years" against Thaksin and the TRT, to the effect their propaganda machine will turn him from hero into villan, do not worry.

[dobadoy]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[Jingthing]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

[kissdani]

Excellent victory for free press!!! Kudos to the red shirts for standing up for democracy. Anyways looks like the govt again is shown as weak/powerless!

Excellent victory for mob rule, lawlessness, and violence.

To the Thai newbie it may look that way. But those of us who have seen this all before many times know that this is a chess match with carefully calculated moves. If you want to see lawlessness and violence in Thailand, look to the south. Up in Bangkok, it's all a game.

The dissolution of the Democrats is coming at the end of this month, EC decision in the donation scandal.In correlation to this, the powers behind holding their own negotiations talks, separate and not open to the public. Reconciliation and restore of the Thai unity is the goal, that can obviously not be done if one side just try to overpower the other side. Especially not if the expiration date of the Democrats lead government is that close. A full force crackdown of the reds shirts would be only a short time solution, pushing them into the underground don't ease anything.

The dissolution of the Democrats will not lead to new an election, the current parliamentary system eats itself and is not the solution for the good of all people. Street mobs of different colors have proved that.

^^That are the calculated chess moves.

It is time for a change and the end of the Democrats opens the way for new talks and the creation of a government of national unity. This entity will start a series of reforms, reforms concerning how the National Assembly will be composed and to amend the selection process of the representatives. Reforms aka New Politics.

Edited April 9, 2010 by kissdani

[ChiangMaiFun]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

[dobadoy]

You seem to forget, many people were here when Thaksin was around, and we did not fall hook line and sinker for the PR campaign against him.

If I didn't know he was tied up elsewhere, I would think mister not-so-levelhead's mypopic and confused posts were from Jatuporn himself, maybe posting from his iPhone while waiting another turn on the ego-boosting RED STAGE (look out Thaksin, you cold have a brutus in the pack, he won't like playing second fiddle once you're back)

...i have seem some crass on this forum over the last few weeks, but levelhead's latest post takes the biscuit.

[TheOldWolf]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

And do we think they will have punishment for their crims?

[chesneychez]

Finally after almost a month of protest, we see some action from the authorities

[Jingthing]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

Their leader Weng is a Maoist. In fact, as far I can tell the only intellectual factions of the reds are also Maoists. Read up on the history of Thailand's neighbors about what happens when Maoists take power. This will take into taboo areas we can't talk about, but savvy people understand.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[dobadoy]

Excellent victory for free press!!! Kudos to the red shirts for standing up for democracy. Anyways looks like the govt again is shown as weak/powerless!

Excellent victory for mob rule, lawlessness, and violence.

To the Thai newbie it may look that way. But those of us who have seen this all before many times know that this is a chess match with carefully calculated moves. If you want to see lawlessness and violence in Thailand, look to the south. Up in Bangkok, it's all a game.

The dissolution of the Democrats is coming at the end of this month, EC decision in the donation scandal.In correlation to this, the powers behind holding their own negotiations talks, separate and not open to the public. Reconciliation and restore of the Thai unity is the goal, that can obviously not be done if one side just try to overpower the other side. Especially not if the expiration date of the Democrats lead government is that close. A full force crackdown of the reds shirts would be only a short time solution, pushing them into the underground don't ease anything.

The dissolution of the Democrats will not lead to new an election, the current parliamentary system eats itself and is not the solution for the good of all people. Street mobs of different colors have proved that.

^^That are the calculated chess moves.

It is time for a change and the end of the Democrats opens the way for new talks and the creation of a government of national unity. This entity will start a series of reforms, reforms concerning how the National Assembly will be composed and to amend the selection process of the representatives. Reforms aka New Politics.

I support your vision - i just don't see there is the real leadership people to bring this off, or the lack of self-interest to make such a thing happen.

This whole scenario is in-fighting amongst power groups, all of whom lack inegrity. The reds MAY (but I doubt) have woken a sleeping elephant by suggesting someone might listen to the poor, but without someone to mobilise them, they are not a force the reds need to worry about if they take control and decide to put the poor back in their place (taking high-intereste money loans from local red puu-yai baans and police commmisioners).

The only person I have seen with any integrity in Thai politics over the last 15 years is Abhisit. Alas, he clearly doesn't have the support of the power-brokers that make his leadership possible. As was said earlier in the day, a sad sad day for Thai democracy. Abhisit was the great white hope - all other options will lead to more moral corruption, social division and human rights abuses (have you seen who is in the PPP party? A bigger bunch of gangsters and moral reprobates you couldn't ask for.)

Edited April 9, 2010 by dobadoy

[madi]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticizes them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

The guy calling the Reds communists is very much like the Republicans in America who are calling Obama a communist.

Desperate and angry are the groups that have lost power or are losing power.

The left in America has not had a real leftist President since 1967 when LBJ was in his last year.

The right is going apenuts in America at having lost power to anyone left of Ghingus Khan.

So back to Thailand. The regime, and in Thailand it is a regime, is not going to take losing power to the masses very well.

Make no mistake, people on bothsides are angry and desperate. There are some reds, should they regain full power, that will of course take severe actions to avenge the steps that were made against them when the current long lasting regime was in power in the last few years.

Many things could happen but it is foolish to believe that terrible things are not possible. History of the world shows the worst fights are revolutions.

The French Revolution comes to mind.

[hammered]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

Their leader Weng is a Maoist. In fact, as far I can tell the only intellectual factions of the reds are also Maoists. Read up on the history of Thailand's neighbors about what happens when Maoists take power. This will take into taboo areas we can't talk about, but savvy people understand.

They have a maoist element mostly actually based around Weng's wife who was bigger in the CPT. She even was instrumental in setting up the red "schools". The reds also use maoist tactics and strategies. However, the vast majority of the red supporters are not even left of any center. The movement might have a wing like that but not a whole. And the Thaksin sway is far far bigger than any left wing element. Remember that what you see at a rally isnt only a very small piece of one percent of of the popualtion and even in that most radical part the leftists are a minority

[sotsira]

Yes he is still looking like the Pattaya Asean summit Abhisit, where he was in deep political trouble most pundits couldn't imagine him recovering from. And then he did indeed recover during Bangkok Black Songkran. So it ain't over till its over. Not predicting the outcome but he has come back from the abyss before, so he may again.

How can you suggest that he ever came back from the abyss and recovered when the reds are still protesting from the moment he stepped in to power.

Jing, you need to look at the whole picture not just specific events that have occurred since his appointment.

You have to realise that this country is widely split in politics and also in prosperity.

The Reds are the majority of the population, they are poor hard working people that have nothing to lose cos they have been repressed,

all their lives with little future.

When they say they are willing to "die for their cause" it shows they have had enough of all the propaganda they've been hearing.

They won't stop until they feel they have achieved their goal whether it's now or next week,month or year.

And it's all because they have nothing to lose! as the economics of the population suggests.

And when the people have the majority in numbers then they have the power to win democratically.

[ChiangMaiFun]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

Their leader Weng is a Maoist. In fact, as far I can tell the only intellectual factions of the reds are also Maoists. Read up on the history of Thailand's neighbors about what happens when Maoists take power. This will take into taboo areas we can't talk about, but savvy people understand.

Mao? you have lost it right? been on the Vino? a little too much Chang? Jeeze................. I think you mean maow?

[ChiangMaiFun]

It's also worth thinkin on the Red leaders repeated threats of violence and censure to anyone that criticises them or stands against them - what voice do you think they will give to others if they are in control of the country? You seriously think that they are going to suddenly become tolerant, and democratic?

Stupidity will rue the day.

Read up on the Maoist cultural revolution. Thug Nation.

comparing Mao with the reds? my Buddha you are desperate Jingythingy

Their leader Weng is a Maoist. In fact, as far I can tell the only intellectual factions of the reds are also Maoists. Read up on the history of Thailand's neighbors about what happens when Maoists take power. This will take into taboo areas we can't talk about, but savvy people understand.

[BkkMD]

80,000 cops

60,000 protesters

.... and yet still the protesters have the upper hand....

[ChiangMaiFun]

80,000 cops

60,000 protesters

.... and yet still the protesters have the upper hand....

yep - Heart rules Head - Om Shakti

[xenomorph]

Their leader Weng is a Maoist. In fact, as far I can tell the only intellectual factions of the reds are also Maoists. Read up on the history of Thailand's neighbors about what happens when Maoists take power. This will take into taboo areas we can't talk about, but savvy people understand.

Don't tell me that Thaksin is Maoist as well!