Thais And Maps

[saraburioz]

I've been in Thailand for 20 years and still can't figure out why the locals can't read maps.

After a decade of married life I gave my wife a map and trusted her to find a temple that was marked on it. Yes we got lost.

Why oh why can't Thai people figure it out? My wife spent about half her school life in England but still has those 'clueless about maps' genes.

[Soutpeel]

Would suggest its not just a Thai female trait, but a female trait generally...LOL

Buy her a GPS which talks Thai...

[saraburioz]

Would suggest its not just a Thai female trait, but a female trait generally...LOL

Buy her a GPS which talks Thai...

No, it's Thai males too.

GPRS maybe - she speaks better English than me.

[fredob43]

Some month's ago, we were driving up north Id given my (Thai) wife the map. We were going to Uttaradit. I pointed out the different town's on route. All she had to tell me was the next town on the route. Simple, Left BKK. As I new the first bit know need to ask. After we got to Sing Buri, I said ok what's the next town??? Oh is Lop Buri. then Angthong. Cant be that as we have gone through them already. Yes it is Ive got the map, See!!! I looked over sure she had the map open, and on the right page. But if was up side down.

[garyh]

Not only can't read maps they can't give directions either. Went to buy something that was advertised in TV classifieds, the woman could not give name of road etc, best she could do was go past such and such market and turn left. I tried to track it down with Google maps but no luck, we eventually found the place after 2 1/2 hours. Then when we got there the stupid woman rang her husband to see if it was okay to sell the item and he said no, by this time I was really pissed off.

Used the GPS to go home took 35 minutes (this was also ignoring Thai brother inlaws directions). Yet they don't like me driving anywhere by myself cause I might get lost.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

This one comes down to the schools. Only a select few students study geography, and the Thai teachers who teach geography, don't know it either.

[slapout]

Have 2 daughters Thai/farang, they have been reading maps since 3-4th year of school (International). Geography and the sense of direction seem to be left on the wayside. Directions from a Wat of market seem to be the norm. Wife same way and kids take her to task on map reading, but she has no interest.

[saraburioz]

In Australia, we often ask for directions - in Thailand it's a loss of face or greng jai to ask someone directions - and it's so bloody hot today!

[bonobo]

I was given a map yesterday by a bank to go see a foreclosed property. It had an Isuzu dealer on the inner side of Kachanapisek (towards Bangkok), and we were supposed to turn on an unamed road directly opposite it on the outer side of Kachanapisek (towards Nakornpathom.)

You guessed it, the Isuzu was on the west side of the road, the outer side. So even banks can't get it right.

Of course, later, while going to see another house near Bang Khae, my g/f asked which direction was the Mall Bang Khae, and I pointed straight ahead. After u-turning to go back the other way, she asked when we would reach the Mall and was surprised when I told her it was now in back of us!

[bonobo]

Not necessarily a Thai thing, but a male-female thing. I watched a show on Discovery or some such which looked into the differences between men and women, and directions were one such area. Woment tend to navigate by landmarks. ( "Go to the 7-11, turn right. Go to the big tree and turn left. etc.")

Men, on the other hand, tend to use direction and distance. (Go west for about a mile, then turn north.)

While nothing is absolute, I think there is a lot of truth to this. I know I tend to navigate that way, at least.

[Birdman]

education, education, education...

[Deke]

This will give you a little bit of insight into the current political situation.

Detailed maps in Thailand, up until the time of Google, were considered a national security issue and therefore off limits to regular citizens. This extended to the topographic maps created by the U.S. Army during and after the Vietnam war.

Until very recently, you needed special permission to even access a topographic map from the Royal Thai Survey Department. As far as I know, that is still officially the case but a lot of it is now available on line (just the last couple of years).

To address your original question, the Thai education system consists of both real education and, what I call, indoctrination. There is a deliberate attempt to keep the masses "stupid".

If you have knowledge, you have power. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of others. Draw your own conclusions.

[PhilHarries]

Woment tend to navigate by landmarks. ( "Go to the 7-11, turn right. Go to the big tree and turn left. etc.")

Men, on the other hand, tend to use direction and distance. (Go west for about a mile, then turn north.)

Maybe in Thailand but in the UK directions given by MEN tend to be "down the A31 until you pass the Crooked Billett then turn first left and go straight past the Dog and Duck turning right at the Queen's Head". No real MAN gives directions based on banks, temples, shopping centers or hair dressers.

Have you ever tried following a Thai map? All roads are dead straight, all junctions are 90 degrees and a 1/4 inch (6mm for the dimensionally challenged) could be 25 yards or 25 miles.

I bought a road map of Thailand once. On the cover it said (in English) Highway Map of Thailand, Scale 1:XXXXX. When I opened it the only English words told me the blue streak was the River Mekong. Verry <deleted> useful when your trying to get to Ayuddhya in a Toyota Corrola.

[Birdman]

Thought you are more down to earth, everything you buy can/should be investigated pre the purchase.

BTW you need a map to Ayutthaya?

[IanForbes]

I really did have to laugh because I've noted the same thing MANY times. However, even a poor farmer Thai can find their way across the country by bus. They never seem to get lost on their own scooters either. I have so many funny stories about Thais and maps I could bore you all day repeating them.

One further thing is NEVER TRUST A HAND DRAWN MAP BY A THAI! When I went by a hand drawn map for a location to a Time share I exchanged it was 30 kilometers out of wack. We drove all over the countryside trying to find it.

[Birdman]

What do you mean? A poor farmer knows his ways around his farmland and surrounding because he will not drive somewhere else. However a poor Northern farmer, working in e.g. construction in e.g. the South has no clue about anything there...

[IMA_FARANG]

You're a man, she's a woman.

Not to be pendantic, but actually scientific research has shown that women in general tend to locate those places they want to go by going from a place they know to another destination they want to go to.

Example of Female thinking: I want to go the Judy's house, whch is near XXXX. So if I start from YYYY's house, walk down two blocks, turn right at the intersection going toward ZZZZZ, then I should be at Judy's house. That's how women think. and that's how they find there way.

Men are the one's who like maps/diagrams. That's how they find their directions. Men locate where they are on the map, and find where to go from that map.

Niether method is wrong, they are both just different methods of getting to the same eventual result.

Seriously, psychologists are starting to realise that Men and Women think differently, and it's built into their "genes" by changes that begin in the womb at about the 3rd month, when the sex hormones first start the differentiation between those who will be Male and those who will be Female. (Prior to the 3rd month all human embryos have two miniscule sets of genital organs. After the 3rd month, one starts to develop, the other stays inhibited.) At about the same times, differences in brain structures start to show, caused by the effect of the sex hormones.

MRI studies of Men and Women thinking through a problem involving using their brains clearly show that different areas of their brains light up (show activity) when they think about the same problem. Just 10 or 15 years ago, no one realised that. Now they do.

[hawthorne]

Met my wife in BKK and were also married in BKK. When we went up north to visit her family her car was parked in the garage all nice and pretty and after three years it had very little mileage on it. I asked why she did not take it when she changed hospitals in BKK. Oh she did and after a week she got lost for FOUR hours in BKK so that ended her driving and she took the car home and parked it. For nearly three years it sat there parked.

[PST]

Ever asked a Thai for directions?,give it a try,if they don't know (loss of face),they will direct you anywhere,both thai and farang alike.

PST.

[F1fanatic]

Some month's ago, we were driving up north Id given my (Thai) wife the map. We were going to Uttaradit. I pointed out the different town's on route. All she had to tell me was the next town on the route. Simple, Left BKK. As I new the first bit know need to ask. After we got to Sing Buri, I said ok what's the next town??? Oh is Lop Buri. then Angthong. Cant be that as we have gone through them already. Yes it is Ive got the map, See!!! I looked over sure she had the map open, and on the right page. But if was up side down.

Its not quite as simple as posters are implying.

Generally women aren't 'spatially aware' according to scientific studies. Its true - we're not.

BUT, I was always good at giving directions (in a car) if I was given a map. Yes, the map would often be up side down, but that's because I needed to see the map pointing in the same direction as the car (if that makes sense).

It would also often be on its side - whatever it took to make sure the road we were following (on the map) was pointing in the same direction as the car.

Ask my ex - it may have looked stupid - but I always got us there!

[garyh]

What do you mean? A poor farmer knows his ways around his farmland and surrounding because he will not drive somewhere else. However a poor Northern farmer, working in e.g. construction in e.g. the South has no clue about anything there...

My father inlaw can not find his way around Chiang Mai despite having live 30 Km away all his life and is taken there quite regularly to the same places, ie doctor, bank etc. I think in his case it is partly to do with the effects of heavy drinking most of his life.

[apetley]

After 24 years working for Ordnance Survey in the UK, Britains National Mapping Agency and producer of the best mapping in the world, this is a thread close to my heart.

Have to say that I am disappointed with the quality of maps available in Thailand too so maybe that is part of the explanation.

Also as mentioned earlier Geography seems to be of very low importance in the school curriculum here.

One small anecdote, every year my wifes family go travelling to an aunts house about 100 km's away to pay respect to their dead family members. Every year they get lost along the way.

[phetaroi]

...

Not to be pendantic, but actually scientific research has shown that women in general tend to locate those places they want to go by going from a place they know to another destination they want to go to.

...

Men are the one's who like maps/diagrams. That's how they find their directions. Men locate where they are on the map, and find where to go from that map.

Niether method is wrong, they are both just different methods of getting to the same eventual result.

Seriously, psychologists are starting to realise that Men and Women think differently...

My only caution to your thread of thinking is that there's a difference between a natural tendency (which really is what your describing) and the ability to be trained in something. At the university my major was physical geology and my minor was geography. So whether it was in the lab or in the field, we used a lot of maps. Thinking back, while the classes were more predominantly male (maybe 60%, 40%), I saw no real lack of ability in map reading and interpretation for the females.

Map reading is not something that comes naturally. It is a learned skill. Most of us have just forgotten how often we were taught maps beginning back in elementary school. I'm not sure it's part of the curriculum here in Thailand.

[saraburioz]

Ever asked a Thai for directions?,give it a try,if they don't know (loss of face),they will direct you anywhere,both thai and farang alike.

PST.

Very true - it used to annoy me so much that I started asking for directions to somewhere I knew first just to check they weren't making it up. Advice - if asking which bus goes somwhere - if you want to go to Siam Square -

Always ask, does the "501 go to Siam centre" if for example you know it doesn't. If the answer is no the 724 goes there, take it.

[eggomaniac]

So funny how many times we have been lost with HER brothers and sisters driving.

I have only been to Yai's a few times but HER brother was having trouble finding the side road off the main highway south of NST.

Luckily I remembered there was a red mail box just past the 24 KM post..

I mean he lived there for decades!

That was after getting lost twice on the drive from Krabi.

[Birdman]

That's the way it is. People are not interested in issues outside their normal day by day life. Almost everything a bit outside of life's routine is unknown territory here.

Again, good education is the key. However how many Expats would be here if the way of life would be similar to Singapore?

[IanForbes]

Some month's ago, we were driving up north Id given my (Thai) wife the map. We were going to Uttaradit. I pointed out the different town's on route. All she had to tell me was the next town on the route. Simple, Left BKK. As I new the first bit know need to ask. After we got to Sing Buri, I said ok what's the next town??? Oh is Lop Buri. then Angthong. Cant be that as we have gone through them already. Yes it is Ive got the map, See!!! I looked over sure she had the map open, and on the right page. But if was up side down.

Its not quite as simple as posters are implying.

Generally women aren't 'spatially aware' according to scientific studies. Its true - we're not.

BUT, I was always good at giving directions (in a car) if I was given a map. Yes, the map would often be up side down, but that's because I needed to see the map pointing in the same direction as the car (if that makes sense).

It would also often be on its side - whatever it took to make sure the road we were following (on the map) was pointing in the same direction as the car.

Ask my ex - it may have looked stupid - but I always got us there!

You have a very good point in how you look at a map. That is how I look at my GPS. It points in the direction I'm traveling.

My daughter is good with maps and has a fantastic memory, but her mother was hopeless. My ex lost her car dozens of times in the big mall parking lots. A couple times she reported the car stolen to the police.

[kopite]

Not necessarily a Thai thing, but a male-female thing. I watched a show on Discovery or some such which looked into the differences between men and women, and directions were one such area. Woment tend to navigate by landmarks. ( "Go to the 7-11, turn right. Go to the big tree and turn left. etc.")

Men, on the other hand, tend to use direction and distance. (Go west for about a mile, then turn north.)

While nothing is absolute, I think there is a lot of truth to this. I know I tend to navigate that way, at least.

not sure about that, in the uk, everything is judged by pubs. "when you get to the rose and crown turn left, keep going till you get to the queen vic"

[Birdman]

No, I mean good education > high salary > high standards > high costs of living > too much for many who are here with a small pension.

[Mosha]

My wife is one of those people who tell you to take the next turning when you are doing 60kph, and you are almost on top of the said turning. That's why I got a GPS.