Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[Tony Clifton]

The hostage taking really shows the improv league that are the reds and brings their cause to a new level of ridiculousness, faithful to themselves. Unfortunately, they can and will stoop even lower.

Some outside help should come soon.

It's been years but I'm still saying Thaksin will get arrested abroad in a shameful manner, handcuffed for all to see ( for his money laundering activities mainly) and the reds will be gone forever in shame, out of their zombie-like state.

He is a complete nuisance to both internal and international politics, trade.

I bet he can no longer get his favorite U.S. lobby firm Baker Botts involved.

[jeanpierre]

The army shouldn't be involved, but the police are useless. The government has two choices: turn the country over to the Redshirts or use the army.

The current count, according to Narenthorn Medical Center, is 4 soldiers dead and 11 civilians. Hopefully there will be no more.

3 option step down and elections

[rixalex]

3 option step down and elections

ie send the message that violent street protests that result in deaths do bring results.

[neverdie]

For people in Bkk that might want to help.

THE NATION: Blood needed at King Mongkut Hospital - especially group O and B. Donation at Chalermprakiat Bldg.

[jdinasia]

It's understandable that events get out of hand very fast, that is why the army should never have been issued live ammo................

Hmmm blame the people that were attacked? The reds were armed and defying lawful orders. the government, police, and military showed restraint over and over and then refused to be attacked any more.

Try blaming those responsible. Thaksin and his lackeys that have been escalating the violent rhetoric for a week from the red stages.

[geriatrickid]

It's understandable that events get out of hand very fast, that is why the army should never have been issued live ammo................

You gotta be kidding???

Stand there and be pelted with stones, petrol bombs and and grenades

Sounds like a good plan, reds declare war .... and you want army to

stand there defenseless?

I guess you have never served your country

Uhhh for most of us, serving our country does not mean shooting live ammo into a civilian population. It is a repugnant act such that most western military leaders will refuse such an order. Even in the USA's most troubled times, Americans who we know love their guns and ammo, refrain from shooting their civilian populations. Oh sure, people will say Kent State blah blah blah, but the inquiry helld that there was no formal order to shoot and the live fire was attributable to poor leadership on the ground. The Thai junior ranks are no better and will shoot when paniced just like the Ohio State National Guard.

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Yes. Classic example is the death and injury in the Arab territories of Gaza & the West Bank. People fire off volleys to celebrate or to make a point and the bullets end up in someones body.

The hostage taking really shows the improv league that are the reds and brings their cause to a new level of ridiculousness, faithful to themselves. Unfortunately, they can and will stoop even lower.

Some outside help should come soon.

It's been years but I'm still saying Thaksin will get arrested abroad in a shameful manner, handcuffed for all to see ( for his money laundering activities mainly) and the reds will be gone forever in shame, out of their zombie-like state.

He is a complete nuisance to both internal and international politics, trade.

I bet he can no longer get his favorite U.S. lobby firm Baker Botts involved.

Money laundering? Have you turned over your evidence to the courts because that's not he was charged or convicted of. Do you even know what money laundering is? If he was laundering money as were the Swiss and German Banks that were convicted, it would mean having received cash from illicit sources and then exchanging it for "clean" money or assets. Maybe you should work on upgrading your high school diploma before providing a legal opinion, ok.

[Barista]

This can all be stopped with the reds going home. Is risking your life really worth 500 Baht a day from Thaksin?

I don't think so, not for us well-educated and well-paid farangs anyways. But still they do risk their lives. And they don't give up and leave for home although the army lets them do so.

Logic would say that either they are so poor and desperate that they are really willing to risk their lives for "500 baht per day".

Or... they are motivated by something else than money.

Whichever way, I feel very sorry for every single casualty this sad weekend in Thai history. R.I.P. to all soldiers, whether dressed in red or in camouflage. Regardless whether it was the top generals of the Thai army or Thaksin + friends that paid your salary, you all deserved a longer and better life.

[animatic]

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Without a doubt.

Happens in the middle east all the time with the random firing into the air.

What goes up must come down, and with a pretty good velocity too.

[Barista]

For people in Bkk that might want to help.

THE NATION: Blood needed at King Mongkut Hospital - especially group O and B. Donation at Chalermprakiat Bldg.

Good post! Regardless of nationality and color of brainwash (red or yellow - take your pick!), go and do something helpful for all the poor victims instead of sitting behind the computer and working yourselves up over (your side's) propaganda.

@neverdie I love the Einstein-quote in your signature.

[Neurath]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

[Hobo]

4 soldiers dead and hundreds wounded....

If thailand had a professional police, with anti riot force to front the insurgents, special forces to quickly and clean arrest the red leaders, they had no needs for the intervention of the Thai Army.

But cops are too busy to count the baht made with their corrupted activities and to scared to face to face a mob.

Yes I totally agree and never such true words spoken.

[hammered]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

Yes. It cant be ruled out. Neither can an election. Neither can a new PM with same coalition. Neither can a coup. Neither can a national unity government. Something has to give unless the polticos reshuffle the pack or do something very quickly. But something that also wont bring the other lot out onto the streets.

[yoshiwara]

It's understandable that events get out of hand very fast, that is why the army should never have been issued live ammo................

You gotta be kidding???

Stand there and be pelted with stones, petrol bombs and and grenades

Sounds like a good plan, reds declare war .... and you want army to

stand there defenseless?

I guess you have never served your country

Uhhh for most of us, serving our country does not mean shooting live ammo into a civilian population. It is a repugnant act such that most western military leaders will refuse such an order. Even in the USA's most troubled times, Americans who we know love their guns and ammo, refrain from shooting their civilian populations. Oh sure, people will say Kent State blah blah blah, but the inquiry helld that there was no formal order to shoot and the live fire was attributable to poor leadership on the ground. The Thai junior ranks are no better and will shoot when paniced just like the Ohio State National Guard.

Pompous contribution.

You forgot My Lai, Mr High School Diploma.

[Neurath]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

Yes. It cant be ruled out. Neither can an election. Neither can a new PM with same coalition. Neither can a coup. Neither can a national unity government. Something has to give unless the polticos reshuffle the pack or do something very quickly. But something that also wont bring the other lot out onto the streets.

For sure, nothing can be ruled out at this stage, but is it possible for the Red Shirts to see any outcome as legitmate other than an immediate dissolution? I notice that Nattawut was asking for some form of intervention from 'on high' which is surely a major issue that he's protesting about.

[neverdie]

For people in Bkk that might want to help.

THE NATION: Blood needed at King Mongkut Hospital - especially group O and B. Donation at Chalermprakiat Bldg.

Good post! Regardless of nationality and color of brainwash (red or yellow - take your pick!), go and do something helpful for all the poor victims instead of sitting behind the computer and working yourselves up over (your side's) propaganda.

@neverdie I love the Einstein-quote in your signature.

Thankyou . I tried to pick something relevant to thai visa.

Also bump this post about blood being needed as much as possible, apparently O neg is required (im sure all types would be accepted) and keep in mind that it may just be someone completely removed from this situation that might need the blood.

[jdinasia]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

Ummm so .... what you are asking for is the military to be involved in politics? I would rather they do their jobs as assigned by the current lawful government. (Though the scenario that you put forward is not entirely without merit)

[bubba]

Just happened across this video of a "peaceful" protestor with what appears to be an assault rifle. Note that you can see the muzzle flash in a level shot at an unseen target. Also note that this clearly couldn't be considered self-defence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oKenp6ZLw

[PoorSucker]

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Without a doubt.

Happens in the middle east all the time with the random firing into the air.

What goes up must come down, and with a pretty good velocity too.

Only when shot in a projectile angel.

Straight up only comes down with the bullets terminal velocity which will case a bump on your head.

Edited April 11, 2010 by PoorSucker

[jdinasia]

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Without a doubt.

Happens in the middle east all the time with the random firing into the air.

What goes up must come down, and with a pretty good velocity too.

Only when shot in a projectile angel.

Straight up only comes down with the bullets terminal velocity which will case a bump on your head.

Actually --- I did some research on this today when I saw the question. The answer is that is CAN kill even when fired straight up into the air. That does not mean it WILL kill.

[jdinasia]

Nation: Govt Spokesperson: Govt is ready to prove in the court that no fatal weapon used by military side.

From today's rally thread --- I am not sure even I am willing to believe this and I do believe that when the reds started attacking with lethal weapons that the government forces are justified in using lethal force.

[PoorSucker]

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Without a doubt.

Happens in the middle east all the time with the random firing into the air.

What goes up must come down, and with a pretty good velocity too.

Only when shot in a projectile angel.

Straight up only comes down with the bullets terminal velocity which will case a bump on your head.

Actually --- I did some research on this today when I saw the question. The answer is that is CAN kill even when fired straight up into the air. That does not mean it WILL kill.

http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode...ired_up_vo.html

[Neurath]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

Ummm so .... what you are asking for is the military to be involved in politics? I would rather they do their jobs as assigned by the current lawful government. (Though the scenario that you put forward is not entirely without merit)

No, not asking that. Asking whether Jatuporn et. al. would be satisfied with that. I believe they would, and I believe that it would indicate a degree of hypocrisy at variance with their democratic rhetoric. This also indicated by Nattawut's request for intervention from 'on high'. I had been led to understand that both these things were to be abhorred by them.

[jdinasia]

If the military put pressure on the minor coalition partners to withdraw and join with PT would the Red Shirt movement see this as a victory?

Ummm so .... what you are asking for is the military to be involved in politics? I would rather they do their jobs as assigned by the current lawful government. (Though the scenario that you put forward is not entirely without merit)

No, not asking that. Asking whether Jatuporn et. al. would be satisfied with that. I believe they would, and I believe that it would indicate a degree of hypocrisy at variance with their democratic rhetoric. This also indicated by Nattawut's request for intervention from 'on high'. I had been led to understand that both these things were to be abhorred by them.

OK -- wrong assumption on my part from the original question

mea culpa

[bubba]

Another video: "peaceful" protestor firing at a building

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY7OafG9Src

[ALFREDO]

-bubba-

Thats an -Heckenschuetze- kind of Sniper in your You tube video.

What do the Reds or Pro Democracy posters in this Forum say about that Video?

I think his rifle jammed and thats why there is only one shot. Than they try to fix that problem.

[bubba]

-bubba-

Thats an -Heckenschuetze- kind of Sniper in your You tube video.

What do the Reds or Pro Democracy posters in this Forum say about that Video?

That's a very good question. Weng's son showed off pictures of a man shot in the head and said that the protestors were unarmed.

[animatic]

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Without a doubt.

Happens in the middle east all the time with the random firing into the air.

What goes up must come down, and with a pretty good velocity too.

Only when shot in a projectile angel.

Straight up only comes down with the bullets terminal velocity which will case a bump on your head.

Now let's talk about when the bullet heads back down:

The same two forces are present, but now the gravity part is speeding up the bullet - friction is still trying to slow it down. Gravity will be speeding up the bullet 32 feet per second every second, but friction will be increasing more and more as the bullet speeds up, and this friction will subtract from that 32. There is a certain velocity when the friction is equal to the gravity in the opposite direction. At this point, the frictional acceleration is 32 feet per second every second upward (or -32), while the gravitational acceleration is 32 feet per second every second downward (+32). From now on, the bullet will have no acceleration at all (32 - 32 = 0). When this happens, the velocity of the bullet is called its "terminal velocity." The bullet will continue at the same velocity until it hits the ground or some object.

This terminal velocity is different depending mostly on two things.

1. The density of the thing that is falling.

2. The shape of the thing that is falling.

Bullets are very dense (usually lead), and they have a shape to allow relatively low friction.

The terminal velocity of a feather may be only 2 feet per second because of its shape and density,

but the terminal velocity of a bullet could be 300 or 400 feet per second. This could be about 300 miles per hour.

1. That 400 feet per second is much slower than the 3000 feet per second that the bullet had when first fired. I

f you or a friend argued that the bullet is going slower on the way down, then you or that friend was correct on the physics.

2. It is still dangerous.

A three hundred mile per hour piece of lead can still do harm.

There is no question that it is not as effective as a bullet fired directly at something.

The bullet that is fired at something has another very important feature, however, a feature the bullet fired into the air does not have.

It was aimed - there was an intended target. The bullet fired into the air falls randomly and could hit anything.

If it hit someone right on top of the head, it's possible that it could kill. It's going about three times as fast as a professionally hit tennis serve,

and it's much smaller than a tennis ball, and harder - more penetrating. When you triple the speed, the energy goes up nine times

(it's proportional to the square of the speed), and I'll bet there's no-one who wants to be hit by a tennis ball with nine times the energy of a fast serve.

Then, because the bullet is small and hard, it is hundreds of times more penetrating than that tennis ball would be.

Put a tennis ball in your palm and put twenty pounds on top of it. No problem. But now put the blade of a screw-driver on your palm

and put twenty pounds on that. That will hurt. Same twenty pounds - smaller cross section - more penetrating.

If you or a friend argued that the falling bullet is dangerous, then you or that friend was correct on that.

3. Ultimate winner of the debate:

If you or a friend argued that the bullet falls much slower than the muzzle velocity, is still dangerous,

but not as dangerous, then you or that friend won the debate and had everything right

People have died from having screwdrivers and even small pieces of wood fly into their heads during tornadoes.

Answer is still yes it can kill you.

Terminal, velocity, shape and mass combined.

Edited April 11, 2010 by animatic

[hammered]

Surely everyone is looking for a way out of this mess. As the evidence starts to come out it is clear there werent any really innocent parties in this horrible event. You cant change the past but you can make attempts to repeat the same mistakes.

Are the government and reds even talking to each other?

[jdinasia]

-bubba-

Thats an -Heckenschuetze- kind of Sniper in your You tube video.

What do the Reds or Pro Democracy posters in this Forum say about that Video?

That's a very good question. Weng's son showed off pictures of a man shot in the head and said that the protestors were unarmed.

Ah .. but even when the leaders call publicly for violence .... when any red commits an act of violence they are "fake reds".

[thaiman]

This can all be stopped with the reds going home. Is risking your life really worth 500 Baht a day from Thaksin?

This can all be stopped by cutting off support to the reds and stepping up the forces of the army. The army needs to squash the resistance. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately, violence always works.